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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Combat between Astral and Physical

Posted by: Bengali Jul 14 2010, 09:49 PM

I have a couple of questions about the interatcions between 2 characters in a magical duel.

Character 1 is on the physical assensing his opponent in astral space. He can only attack with mana based spells.

Character 2 is a free spirit in astral space observing the physical.

first question does Astral Armor protect against Stunball?

second question can the spirit cast physical spells from Astral to target the physical side. Spells like Levitate and Lightning bolt. If so would he recieve the -2 penalty for interacting with the real world?

Thank you in advance for any answers given

Posted by: czarcasm Jul 14 2010, 10:03 PM

1. The Astral Armor spell protects only against attacks made using the Astral Combat skill. It doesn't protect against Stunball. Your defense pool would be Willpower + Counterspelling + Counterspelling/Shielding Focus.

2. I'm not sure what you mean that the spirit is in astral space "observing the physical." If the spirit has not materialized -- which is more than just manifesting -- than the spirit cannot cast physical spells on people who are not astrally projecting/perceiving or who are dual natured. I'm assuming, however, that your spirit is contemplating casting a physical spell at Character 1, who is astrally perceiving. In that case, I think that the spirit CAN cast any spell -- mana or physical -- on the astrally-perceiving character. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!) As for the second part of this question, the free spirit would NOT receive a -2 penalty for interacting with the physical plane. IIRC, only a character who is NOT normally dual-natured but who is astrally PERCEIVING (not projecting) can suffer from that penalty.

Posted by: MYST1C Jul 15 2010, 05:50 AM

QUOTE (czarcasm @ Jul 15 2010, 12:03 AM)

In that case, I think that the spirit CAN cast any spell -- mana or physical -- on the astrally-perceiving character. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!)

You can't cast any Physical spell while in a purely astral state.
As soon as the spirit materializes it can cast any spell it wants (as it now exists on the material plane). But in Astral space only Mana spell can be cast.

Posted by: darthmord Jul 15 2010, 12:47 PM

You can only cast spells against targets that have a component that matches up with your state. Once you have that, you have the additional restriction of against Astral only targets, you *must* use Mana based spells (Stunbolt vice Powerbolt)

Caster State:-----Target State
Physical plane = physical plane or dual natured targets (spell can be mana or physical)
Astral plane = astral plane targets or dual natured targets (spell must be mana)
Dual natured* = astral plane, physical plane or dual natured targets (spell can be mana or physical)

*by virtue of being dual natured like a dragon or through using things like Materialization or Astral Perception. List of dual nature effects is not all inclusive

Posted by: MYST1C Jul 15 2010, 03:59 PM

QUOTE (darthmord @ Jul 15 2010, 02:47 PM)

Dual natured* = astral plane, physical plane or dual natured targets (spell can be mana or physical)

Against an Astral target the spell must be Mana as Physical spells have no effect on the Astral plane.

Posted by: Caadium Jul 15 2010, 04:57 PM

I don't have my books handy so I can't look this up right now, perhaps someone can help me: If a dual-natured critter gets into a fight with a spirit (that is not manifesting/possessing), do they use astral combat as a skill, or their normal attack skills?

For example, a spirit is going past a ghoul, does the ghoul use unarmed combat to claw it, or does it need to use astral combat?

Posted by: Mr. Unpronounceable Jul 15 2010, 05:56 PM

I don't have a 4A book handy, but in 4e:

QUOTE

Astrally perceiving and dual natured characters use their Physical attributes and skills to fight opponents with a physical body, and their Willpower + Astral Combat skill to fight wholly astral entities. Astrally projecting characters use their Mental attributes in place of Physical ones (see the Astral Attributes Table, above) along with the Astral Combat skill. There are no known ranged weapons that function in astral space, so unarmed attacks, active weapon foci (see p. 192), and mana spells are the only options for astral combat.

Of course, they didn't give ANY of the dual-natured critters the Astral Combat skill, so they're pretty much screwed by RAW.

Not sure offhand if they changed that in 4A.

Posted by: Venom Jul 15 2010, 05:59 PM

QUOTE (Caadium @ Jul 15 2010, 05:57 PM)

For example, a spirit is going past a ghoul, does the ghoul use unarmed combat to claw it, or does it need to use astral combat?

The Ghoul uses his physical skills -its a tough break though because Dual natured critters are always vulnerable to astral attack and are likely to react much slower than the attacker who gets the astral initiative bonus - harsh but I guess it keeps the Ghoul population under control...

Posted by: Draco18s Jul 15 2010, 06:06 PM

QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ Jul 15 2010, 12:56 PM)

Of course, they didn't give ANY of the dual-natured critters the Astral Combat skill, so they're pretty much screwed by RAW.

By RAW almost no critter has any skills to speak of. Check out dogs (no unarmed combat!)

Posted by: Mr. Unpronounceable Jul 15 2010, 07:22 PM

QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jul 15 2010, 06:06 PM)

By RAW almost no critter has any skills to speak of. Check out dogs (no unarmed combat!)

??
They have unarmed combat 3 in my old 4e book.

Posted by: Draco18s Jul 15 2010, 07:23 PM

QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ Jul 15 2010, 02:22 PM)

??
They have unarmed combat 3 in my old 4e book.

AFB at the moment, so I can't really speak well on the subject.

Any perception skills?

Posted by: Mr. Unpronounceable Jul 15 2010, 07:24 PM

yeah, perception 2, power: enhanced senses (smell)