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Posted by: Nifft Aug 4 2010, 07:24 PM

If you were to recruit a team to take out ghoul nests, who would be in it?

Immunity to HMHVV:
- Pixies
- Naga
- Shapeshifters
- Dracoforms
- Free Spirit
- AI + drones

Some Protection from HMHVV:
- Rigger (assumes secure location)
- Mage + Astral Projection

Already Infected:
- PC ghouls?

- - -

I'm putting together an intro one-shot with the idea that it'll show some of the more unlikely stuff in the Runner's Companion. Has anyone run a game themed on ghoul-hunting, and care to share party composition & experiences?

Thanks, -- N

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 07:53 PM

I ran a game on the threads here that died out because I couldn't keep up with the work of running it, it was based on a zombie apocalypse scenario. You'd have to go dig through the 'welcome to the shadows' thread for it, last post was likely sometime in... November maybe of last year? Don't even remember what the game was called, but a search for 'zombie apocalypse' might bring it up.

Edit: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=28577&hl=zombie+apocalypse http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=28579&hl=zombie+apocalypse http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=28422&hl=zombie+apocalypse

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Aug 4 2010, 08:21 PM

One of the best Vampire hunters in SR history was Martin DeVirus (a Vampire himself). Who knows their prey better then their own? If I was hunting infected though I would go the Mage and Rigger (with a crap load of droids) route myself. You don't want to mess around with HMHVV. I wouldn't even hold back on using FAT III if I could get my hands on it.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 08:24 PM

complete cyber-replacement.
apply chem-seal to the body itself.

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 08:28 PM

Only problem with being a vampire hunting vampires is that it is hard to use some of their weaknesses against them. Can't stay out in the sun with them to make sure they dust (Not that they do in SR), or hold a wooden stake. Could still use wooden bullets I suppose.

The real problem with ghouls is that by the rules, the HMHVV is virtually impossible to resist, requiring 24 dice on average to fight off the power 8. It is also spread by simple contact not only with the ghoul itself, but with its blood, spit, or skin.

A sealed suit of armor would likely be the best line of defense for someone that isn't immune that deals with them in person. Military or something like that would be a good idea with a helmet that completely encloses the head. Then they'd have to actually bypass the armor (Deal P damage instead of S) to have any chance of infecting you.

Could throw in those nanites that give you a massive bonus against infections and such.

Posted by: Chainsaw Samurai Aug 4 2010, 08:49 PM

HMHVV is ridiculously contagious. I've never agreed it should be simple contact with the ghoul, but more traditionally zombie styled: blood to wound contact, bodily fluid ingestion, or bite wounds. Under those circumstances, I'm alright with the absolutely asinine resistance tests with absolutely no outside help from magic or medicine.

Seriously, think about the current ability of that disease to be spread. Contact with the ghoul? Contact with spit, blood, skin? There is absolutely no way a disease that contagious with no cure or vaccine would be limited to a very small portion of the Seattle population. Especially since these things usually live in the sewers and other similarly dank areas where they have moderate access to the city's water supply. It wouldn't be long before, at a bare minimum, the entirety of the barrens was infected; then they go looking to higher class neighborhoods for food and continue spreading the disease. It is a little asinine as written.

The disease has ridiculous transmission methods and a penetration of neg six. Seriously?

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 08:52 PM

AH allready apologized for that.

Posted by: Martin_DeVries_Institute Aug 4 2010, 08:53 PM

Very true. My namesakes' best weapon in his fight against vampires was the special magical focus he had, which granted him additional Essence--very useful when fighting creatures that can drain E. Without that I doubt he'd be quite so feared.


The nanites would be good as you can get them tailored to stop HMHVV. That may be the best bet for a character to avoid getting it.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 08:56 PM

For technic mass production, go drones.
For magial mass production, go spirits.
For exotic technical, go full body replacement with chem-seal applied to the body directly.
For exotic natural go with any of the above mentioned ways.

Posted by: Traul Aug 4 2010, 08:59 PM

Most sapient critters are immune too. A projecting mage or free spirit looks close to an I win button, unless the ghouls have planned serious astral defenses. It will probably be more fun for everyone if you forget those. If you want some spellslinging mojo, use a mystic adept instead.

Posted by: Magus Aug 4 2010, 09:09 PM

But Ghouls don't even have the INFECTION power, so you would not really have to worry about that.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 09:13 PM

They don't need that power.
They are carriers of HMHVV.
And that Disease has the contact vector.
After all, there is a quality of sterile carrier.
And that was one of the differences between NPCritter and PC ghouls under SR3, PC ghouls did not have infection, NPCritter ghouls did.

Posted by: Nifft Aug 4 2010, 09:48 PM

Awesome, thanks: Pixie, Naga, and Centaur look good. Well, actually Centaur looks like it could be a bit unwieldy if the team had to sneak anywhere... hmm.

I see a lot of pixie builds around here, so those must be decent, right?

How is the Naga in play? Seems to have armor issues, if recent threads are any indication.

Posted by: Mordinvan Aug 4 2010, 09:56 PM

Since the virus takes a while to change you, ride a suborbital once infected, to kill the virus off by exposing it to space.

Posted by: Starmage21 Aug 4 2010, 09:56 PM

Dont forget the other infected. Vampires and such are immune to kreiger HMHVV

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 10:00 PM

you know . . i don't think anyone actually ever thought of that yet O.o

Posted by: The Jopp Aug 4 2010, 10:05 PM

I would hire this man...

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=30032&hl=PREACHER

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 10:09 PM

Maybe they have, the problem is that a sub-orbital flight would be expensive, the other problem is it still might not kill the virus because the person carrying it might provide enough to sustain it even if they are in deep space.

Posted by: Johnny Hammersticks Aug 4 2010, 10:17 PM

It isn't much fun, but an caster who can project is and is specialized in astral combat is all you'll ever need.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 10:18 PM

Well, Space is a what?
A-10? -12? Mana-Ebb?
Dunno if Background-Count would be enough for the same effect . .
If that were the case, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Auschwitz and other such places would be the best places for stopping such things . .

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 10:21 PM

Astral combat?

Just stunbolt them from 100m, keep hitting till they get close, then fly strait up 100m and laugh hysterically as they run for cover. A duel natured creature's biggest fear is an astral entity with a ranged attack.

Posted by: Badmoodguy88 Aug 4 2010, 10:21 PM

As for HMHVV in the water supply. Take the scary virus of our day: HIV. It is easy to kill outside of a person, and it can not survive long outside of body fluids or excrement. Even then it is like 2-3 days tops unless you have a pool of blood thing going on. A lot of other viruses are a LOT more resilient to heat, cold, and age.

Posted by: Johnny Hammersticks Aug 4 2010, 10:24 PM

Sure, this is assuming ghouls have little in the way of tactics or brains. I'd think most ghouls who have brains left would gather around awakened ghouls and have tactics to not get slaughtered by astral attackers (wards, spirits, casters)

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 10:49 PM

But how many ghouls are awakened? Does the 0.1% from metahumans hold true? In that case, it shouldn't be hard to take out a few hundred ghouls before even seeing a mage ghoul. Similarly, not alot of mages are going to want to work for ghouls to set up astral defenses for them.

And even against an awakened ghoul, the projecting mage will be at an advantage because she can simply drop into the earth or pass through a wall so that the ghoul can't target her, then pop out to blast and go right back into hiding.

Edit: Besides, the ghoul mage is going to be just as big a problem in meat as in astral, so may as well fight the mage where only the mage can really fight, and not the other ghouls.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 10:51 PM

Technically, they are ALL awakened . .
Just about the same percentage as in the rest of the population of earth in 2060/2070 is also able to cast spells and summon spirits.

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 10:54 PM

Didn't think having a magic attribute was the same as being awakened. Could be wrong about that, fluff terminology isn't my strong suit.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 10:55 PM

They are also all dual natured as to both the fluff and the rules if i remember correcty.
Every single ghoul can astrally perceive as well as any adept or mage, nay, even better, as they don't get the -2 dice / +2TN to actions while using their astral perception, because to them IT'S NATURAL.
And the fluff is, as so often, not wholly cohesive in what counts as awakened or not . . sometimes even a metahuman counts as being awakened, or a surgeling. or any kind of critter that came to by because of magic, even if they have no active or passive magic at all, not even a magic attribute as per the rules . . and sometimes, everything with a magic attribute of at least 1 is awakaned . . other times it's only awakened if it can actively or passively make use of some kind of magical effect like spell casting or summoning or shape change or regeneration or any kind of spirit/critter power . .

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 11:00 PM

Yeah, they're duel natured, but still, I thought you required adept/ma/mage to be considered awakened. Like I said, could be totally wrong. Critters with a magic attribute that aren't spellcasters are called paranormal, while those that can cast spells or something similar are called awakened. Could be wrong about that though, been a while since I read RW.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 4 2010, 11:00 PM

Awakened plants?

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 11:06 PM

Can totally cast spells

They just.... only effect other plants?

Okay, so yeah, guess it is either the magic attribute or being duel natured. So yeah, they're all awakened, but only a few can cast spells, which is my point. 999 out of 1000 you can stunbolt a couple times from a distance before you have to deal with one that can actually do anything to you.

Posted by: Doc Byte Aug 4 2010, 11:33 PM

A squad of Jarheads.

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 11:48 PM

I am so and so, of the clan Jarhead?

Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 11:49 PM

Oh, and also, a team that doesn't want to be paid up front

Posted by: Udoshi Aug 4 2010, 11:55 PM

I'm pretty sure a Free Spirit would own face at ghoul hunting.

Ghouls can't really do anything about their dual natured ness. A spirit, on the other hand, can zip around on the astral plane tossing LOS mana spells, causing Fear, Confusion (they are mana powers) against anything astrally percieving, while enjoying its extra astral passes and initiative.

Healing stun damage(such as drain) is a body+Willpower, 1 hour extended test. When a spirit's had enough, they just pop over to a beach, have a drink, and relax. Rush job that healing test, don't worry about glitches due to guard, heal some drain, then get back to popping ghoul heads.

Like an astral jet fighter, with an unlimited supply of missiles and a half hour restock time.

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 5 2010, 12:02 AM

I think Awakened is just a fluff word, with no real meaningful rules meaning.

Ghouls' always-on dual-naturedness makes them easy targets indeed. A good reason for them to hide, hide, hide from say, Lone Star fire elemental summoners. It basically means that anyone who can summon spirits of non-negligible Force can provide decent long-term protection to a neighborhood.

Posted by: Udoshi Aug 5 2010, 12:08 AM

That, and its kind of hard to hide from Search.

Posted by: Doc Byte Aug 5 2010, 12:18 AM

Yeh, something like 7 of 9.

"Yo, we've some Ghouls in the basement."
"What you're waitin' for? Go take 'em out!"
"Me? You're nuts? Send the full-borgs!"

Posted by: Yerameyahu Aug 5 2010, 12:51 AM

I agree that projecting mages or astral spirits are all you need, unless they've cleverly 'lost' their Dual Nature. Poor ghouls.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 5 2010, 01:10 AM

I think I made a comment earlier about not daring US Marines to do something. I'm sure the UCAS/CAS Marine Corps continue that particular tradition...

Posted by: Chainsaw Samurai Aug 5 2010, 01:19 AM

Pretty sure he's referring to the other kind of "jarheads," cyborgs.

Although a Rigurai (Rigger piloting a modified Cyborg body and fulfilling a Street Sam's role with it) would work too. Hard part is getting around the astronomical availability rating. Of course that "hard part" seems a hell of a lot easier than raising an army of proper cyborg "jarheads."

Posted by: CanRay Aug 5 2010, 01:24 AM

Or you could just get the Marines to do it for beer.

I hear they're like the Canadian Armed Forces like that. "They'll take any position and defeat any enemy if there's beer for them at the end."

Posted by: Udoshi Aug 5 2010, 04:02 AM

Is there any way to do this in game, besides burning out? Perhaps one of those funky spells that remove a sense?

Posted by: Karoline Aug 5 2010, 04:11 AM

Think burnout is the only way, not that it is exceptionally hard to do, they just have to get a single implant, though they might have trouble finding someone to work on them... maybe a ghoul street doc

Even if they had their astral perception sense removed, they'd still be duel natured.

Edit: Of course, they're blind without astral perception, so they would be unlikely to be particularly thrilled about being burnt out.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Aug 5 2010, 04:11 AM

I don't think so, no. Even if you removed the astral sense, they're still *there* on the astral, right?

Posted by: Karoline Aug 5 2010, 04:12 AM

Yep.

Posted by: sabs Aug 5 2010, 04:14 AM

so they can be gunned down like dogs from Astral, without being able to do a damn thing about it.

WHy does these guys even exist?
You could wipe out the entire Ghoul Population in a city with 2 spirits

Posted by: Udoshi Aug 5 2010, 04:14 AM

Why not? The same technique, on an astrally percieving mage, would just shut off his astral sight, wouldn't it?

Dual natured people are just folks who astrally percieves -all- the time, and can't turn it off. (at least in this edition. It was probably different before)

Posted by: Yerameyahu Aug 5 2010, 04:17 AM

That's what I'm saying, sabs. I guess the burnouts are maintaining the population.

Udoshi, I don't think that's that case. The two are equivalent, sometimes, but it makes more sense that Dual-Natured things are things the *exist* on both planes at once (have an astral form instead of a shadow). It just logically follows that things existing on the astral have astral perception. When metahumans sneak on with their Astral Perception, they become temporarily *like* Dual-Natured things. It always bothered me that they didn't make the distinction clearer.

Posted by: Mordinvan Aug 5 2010, 05:13 AM

The virus will likely have a magic score of less then 6, getting it into a -6 background count WILL kill/cripple it. After that, standard anti-virals will work, since it has no supernatural component left to it.

Posted by: Chainsaw Samurai Aug 5 2010, 06:02 AM

By that method of thinking then the virus should be targetable from the astral plane, hypothetically through the carrier's body. I don't think that is the case.

I don't think it's meant to be cured, however I also don't think it's meant to be so ridiculously contagious. I especially don't like the "whelp... you're screwed" feeling of being infected, compounded by the fact that the Runner's Companion then expects you to spend your next 100 karma to turn into something you didn't want to have anything to do with in the first place.

Psh... some Companion. With friends like that...

Posted by: Mordinvan Aug 5 2010, 06:17 AM

Ya, I'm not a fan of the infection during game play rules either. The bonuses for being a ghoul are pretty good, but the social draw backs of being an infected mutant cannibal are horrendous, and the idea that anyone would allow a power 8, contact vector zombie plague anywhere near a city, letalone granting it citizenship is beyond stupid.

Posted by: Chainsaw Samurai Aug 5 2010, 06:32 AM

Agreed.

"oooh but Ghouls are people too!"

Exactly, and their community will fit in just fine right next to the leper colonies on whatever remote area.

EDIT: Seriously it isn't even just the Power 8 (as if that wasn't bad enough), what the hell is up with Penetration -6? Do Ghouls have acid blood or something?

Posted by: Zormal Aug 5 2010, 06:36 AM

Karoline mentioned nanites. O-cells "reduce the Power of any viral or bacterial pathogens that infect the host by its rating", and come with a maximum rating of 9.

Hands down, the best way to shake off HMHVV after you get infected. Rating 8 O-cells cost 20 000 (2 500 x 8 ) and give you full immunity. Dirt cheap, when you consider the alternative.

The only downside is that it makes you immune to everything else out there. Oh well...

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 5 2010, 07:51 AM

Well, we know the absurd infectiousness of ghouls is a writing "accident". Ghouls being dual-natured isn't really an accident, but maybe they accidentally forgot to give ghouls a means of defending themselves from astral attacks?

But extremely aggressive reproduction rates do balance out extreme vulnerability, in the way that vermin and diseases manage to avoid extinction...

Posted by: Johnny Hammersticks Aug 5 2010, 10:45 AM

Sorry, I should have expressed that better. What I mean to say is this:

Its clear that ghouls with out spellcaster support (they're all awakened) are always going to be dead meat.

therefore, the ghouls worth hunting, worth sending shadowrunners after, probably are a step above the kind of ghouls that are running pell-mell as some apprentice shaman bombards them with stunbolts from the astral.

Wards, spirits, etc.

Posted by: darthmord Aug 5 2010, 12:18 PM

Wouldn't a high power Mana Static also work?

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 5 2010, 01:06 PM

Good question . .
Technically, a Background Count is a positive but aspekted away from you mana environment.
You would need a Mana-Ebb to kill something magical i think . .

Posted by: CanRay Aug 5 2010, 02:26 PM

They are people that EAT OTHER PEOPLE.

That tends to colour any support they'd get. Cannibalism is such a... Tricky thing.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 5 2010, 02:32 PM

Ah, minor details as some would say.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 5 2010, 02:37 PM

Oh, I'm sure there are groups out there that will make it a major deal.

I mean, hell, there are folks out there that burn crosses just because there are short people in the world!

Posted by: sabs Aug 5 2010, 03:27 PM

And not only do they eat other people, but if they go too long without eating, they lose control over their willpower and go on a killing rampage.

Posted by: Karoline Aug 5 2010, 04:13 PM

Well, the actual downside is that each time they do this, their rating drops by one. So if you have rating 8 O-cells and get hit four times, the first time it will negate it completely, the second it will drop it to power 1 (very doable) then a power 2 (Getting a little tight) and finally only to power 3 (Which is starting to get very difficult for non-trolls). The O-cells will regenerate, but only at a rate of something like 1 rating/week with a nanohive. So yeah, maybe grab a second injection of the stuff for when your main O-cells start to die off, and make sure both are full rating 9. That's a fair chunk of change, but it you make a living off hunting ghouls or something, it is likely to pay off (And it helps that it works on other things too for when you aren't ghoul hunting)

Posted by: Mordinvan Aug 5 2010, 04:28 PM

Not sure if mana static can kill anything other then spirits, if it can, then sure.

Posted by: Zormal Aug 5 2010, 04:35 PM

Ah! I totally forgot about dropping the rating. That makes it a lot more balanced.
Very good

Edit: Actually... could someone point me to the right page for this rule? Can't seem to locate it...

Posted by: Karoline Aug 5 2010, 05:23 PM

Hmm, actually it is nantidotes that do that, I just figured the rule continued to hold true for O-cells as well. I think I put it as a house rule for my L4D game.

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 5 2010, 05:26 PM

Well, to be fair, if a ghoul touches you four times, it's probably just torn you to shreds. Because that means you gave it time to take 4 Complex Actions for melee attacks! More than enough time to kill it with a proper cleanse-the-unholy gun.

Posted by: Karoline Aug 5 2010, 05:31 PM

Well, I'm thinking multiple ghoul encounters over the span of an extermination or something as opposed letting a ghoul gnaw on you for a minute or two to prove how tough you are.

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 5 2010, 05:56 PM

True.. better carry some booster packs with nanites then I guess? Cost of doing business and all.

Hmm. Can you even put nanites into autoinjectors?

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 5 2010, 05:56 PM

Technically, no . .
Your own close combat action hitting the ghoul also counts as touching . .
Hence: "WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD WILLINGLY ENTER CLOSE-COMBAT WITH A GHOUL?"

Posted by: Mordinvan Aug 5 2010, 06:00 PM

So long as they are typed for your body, and in an appropriate suspension, I see no reason why not. I mean you can do it to nanocutters right?

Posted by: Chainsaw Samurai Aug 5 2010, 06:05 PM

I was going to make a comment continuing the conversation about melee combat with A ghoul.

Where the heck are you guys finding A ghoul? If it were as easy as A ghoul, I wouldn't have such a beef with the infection rules as they stand.

We're really talking about three ghouls flailing at you at once while you attempt in vain to make one melee attack to fend them off.

I hate ghouls, I hate dealing with them, I hate their silly overpowered diseases, I hate that that disease costs you 100 karma when it is thrust upon you without your consent. I don't even deal with ghouls! I have a ghoul 'chop shop' as a contact make bodies disappear, but I don't even expect any cash from harvested 'ware.

I drive up, slow down just enough to kick the body out the door and keep going. I throw a little note on the body that they can read when it comes to a tumbling, twisted halt.

Dear Freaks,

Here, have some food. You guys like food, right?

Consider it a favor to pay for "protection" from you and your kind.

XOXO,
Socrates.

P.S. Stay the *#*# away from me Ugo!

Posted by: sabs Aug 5 2010, 06:10 PM

My attitude on hunting ghouls:

you blow the building up with c4
once the explosions stop, you pour gasoline all over the demolition site, and you set it on fire.
You wait for the fire to go out, and then you blow the place up with c4 again.

Then you get your mage friend to summon a few spirits and bind them to kill any ghouls they see.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Aug 5 2010, 06:24 PM

You *shouldn't* expect cash from harvested 'ware.

Posted by: Mordinvan Aug 5 2010, 06:28 PM

I'd also be more polite in my letter really.

Posted by: Chainsaw Samurai Aug 5 2010, 06:45 PM

What?

I gave them "hugs and kisses," I'm sure that is as polite as they've gotten in a long time. I'm like their best friend that never, ever, under any circumstances, wants to see them.

Right?

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 5 2010, 06:47 PM

I was kinda fishing for that


Ghouls do trigger my "kill it with fire!" sentiments. Well, I appreciate the existence in the setting, but I'm having difficulty with the Ghoul Rights thing. I imagine even most hardened criminals think the world would be a nicer place without ghouls.

Posted by: Karoline Aug 5 2010, 07:34 PM

Why? It isn't like they can read (being blind and all).

Posted by: X-Kalibur Aug 5 2010, 07:54 PM

I know that AH has apologized for his work on HMHVV in Runner's Companion, but was it one of the items he sent in errata for in the German version? If so, what was the fix or what was it supposed to be if it was finalized?

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 5 2010, 09:49 PM

dunno if he actually did send in Errata for his stuff to germany, but i guess the simple fix would be to make it injection vector . .
This means as long as the ghoul does no physical damage with a close combat attack, you simply do not get sick . .
Well, at least as long as you don't have open wounds around ghouls . . but then, if you do, you are in trouble anyway . .

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 5 2010, 09:53 PM

And/or reduce the power? 8 is rather a lot..

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 5 2010, 10:24 PM

*shrugs*
maybe.
Under SR3, Ghoulism was easy to cure.
Easier than the common cold to be exact.

Posted by: Five Eyes Aug 6 2010, 01:16 AM

Ghoul HMHVV is so ridiculously contagious that I bet you're at risk of infection even with purely metaphorical hugs.

Posted by: Shrike30 Aug 6 2010, 01:57 AM

Chem-sealed, fireproofed, respirator-equipped chainmail with added ballistic plates and a Shriketek RaID-2 (mag-fed burst-capable shotgun with an underbarrel flamethrower nozzle) would be a good way to start out. Without going the exotic breed route (something immune to disease) or the O-cells route (which might conflict with the written description of there being no way to mitigate HMHVV's effects), keeping from making "contact" with something you're trying to kill is probably your best route. That, and bringing friends for if/when you get knocked down.

Other good approaches:

• Burn the building from outside.
• Drive an armored bulldozer into the building with your friends firing through the hole you've just made.
• Nerve gas.
• Drones.
• Close combat training and a tactical network.
• Snipers/yahoos with hunting rifles.

Interestingly, blowing up the building is a bad plan... throwing bits of infectious ghoul all over a three block radius is bad. Burning might have the same problem, but if your accelerants burn hot enough, it's less of an issue.

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 17 2011, 07:58 AM

Hmm.

Feral Ghouls are Critters right?

Pimp out a ghoul with bioware and a stirrup interface and let your feral remote control ghoul hunt ghouls for you.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jun 17 2011, 01:35 PM

That's a very expensive drone!

Posted by: sabs Jun 17 2011, 01:54 PM

I'd go with 2 Crimson Samurai, with Walker mods.
One with Heavy Machine gun, one with Flame Thrower.

Herd with suppression fire, kill with actual fire.
They come with 12 points of hardened armor. Against a Ghoul, that's some nice stuff.

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 17 2011, 02:13 PM

Well, I could always go with a Doberman with Monofiliament Chainsaw, target recognition program (Ghoul identification) and let them loose in a ghoul home.

Add theft protection with electric shocks

Posted by: Ryu Jun 17 2011, 06:34 PM

What do you mean light doesn´t hurt SR ghouls? Bring a bunch of drones armed with ARES MP3 Lasers. Little to no blood will be shed.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 17 2011, 07:17 PM

Wel, THAT kind of Light will hurt most everybody . .
But no, ghouls don't suffer from a light allery like most everything else with HMHVV . .

Also, what's to stop ghouls from simply tipping over the drone?

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jun 17 2011, 07:20 PM

Getting shot, I assume.

Posted by: BishopMcQ Jun 17 2011, 07:26 PM

Anyone who takes the Carrier 5 pt negative quality for HMHVV, can safely hunt ghouls. They spread the disease but as carriers are immune to it themselves.

Posted by: Rubic Jun 17 2011, 07:59 PM

There are 3 strains of HMHVV. As per the write up of Carrier in RC, you only get immunity to ONE of those strains per Carrier quality, with the possibility that it will, at any time (depending on backstory or how much of a bas jerk your GM is) evolve into one of the others. Take it 3 times along with 15 BP to be sure

Additionally, Dual-Natured beings such as Ghouls and Dragons exist on both the physical world and Astral Plane at the same time, and are able to INTERACT with both. What this means is that your astrally projecting mage will NOT be immune to harm, just immune to infection. Any non-feral ghoul with any sense will bolt for a narrow corridor or room which would force your mage to be within potential striking distance. No, you are not risking infection. Yes, you are risking a muckle of angry ghouls who can see you. Yes, you'd better hope you can ditch to a metaplane or else you might just be held in place and curb stomped. Just, y'know, fyi

Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 17 2011, 08:05 PM

Splash/Smoke-Grenades filled with FAB(something) . .
It will eat the ghouls alive, see how they like a taste of their own medicine . .

Posted by: CanRay Jun 17 2011, 08:55 PM

Ghetto Drone Combat!

This Old Drone's Ferret RPD-V1 Perimeter Drone, remove the Searchlight, add on a Lawnmower at a 90° angle, probably add on an extra "Fuel" tank to handle the extra electricity needed as insurance. Bonus points if you do it with the power of duct tape!

BTW: I just got "Dead Rising 2" back from loaning it to a friend.

Posted by: Christian Lafay Jun 18 2011, 12:31 AM

So say you do hunt down ghouls for a bounty... How the hell would you collect for each kill? Proof of death, as it were. It's not like bringing in Zip-Loc bag full of fake pointy ears for taking out elf-posers.

Posted by: CanRay Jun 18 2011, 12:34 AM

Severed heads in a watertight burlap bag.

Nothing like traditional bounty hunting!

Posted by: Christian Lafay Jun 18 2011, 12:40 AM

Which gets rid of a lot of the KILL IT WITH FIRE attitude. Unless they have a distinct skull and you are recreating John Carpenter's Vampires. And even then walking through in extreme HazMat gear to collect heads? Gonna need a drone for that too.

Posted by: Lantzer Jun 18 2011, 12:44 AM

Use a jar-head cyborg.

Totally immune to HMHVV.
Fast as heck in a fight.
And looks like nothing special on the astral.

Remember your average ghoul is blind on the physical. All he'll get on a jar-head is a boring astral shadow, in a world filled with boring stral shadows.

For a much cheaper version, a drone rigger with a few repeater drones could do something similiar. The cyborg's big benefit is that he's immune to jamming.

Posted by: CanRay Jun 18 2011, 12:58 AM

Ever seen the art for them?

No mistaking them for anything else.

At least you don't have the skin the bloody thing like they demand in Quebec. (Pelts, baby!)

Posted by: HunterHerne Jun 19 2011, 02:54 PM

I was under the impression that each of the three HMHVV strains had a different make-up for each species (a human can be carrier for a Harvester strain, but wouldn't be affected by it anyway). I was also under the impression that any of the species with the infection power can't be carriers, as you either have it and are a vampire, or you had it and are dead. (Infection only possibly occurs when your essence is reduced to 0)

Posted by: Patrick Goodman Jun 19 2011, 03:42 PM

That is how it wound up, but it wasn't how I'd have done it. Unfortunately, I wasn't doing any freelancing at the time and Bobby Derie got to do some of the stuff that I was wanting to do, and he took it in a different direction (probably at the coaxing of Peter Taylor, but that's really not the issue here).

Caveat: I could be misreading things. Wouldn't be the first time. I don't think I am, though.

Their vision was a humongous set of diseases, one for each metaspecies per strain of HMHVV. Thus, there's a vampire strain, a banshee strain, and so on and so forth. The way it's written, you can get attacked by any of them, but if you're not the same species, the worst that can happen if you survive is you get the Carrier quality and can't donate blood anymore. (This has actually happened to me; I was stationed in England for a couple of years, and now I'm considered a carrier for mad cow disease and can no longer donate blood. Very frustrating considering I'm a huge proponent of blood and organ donation...but I digress. Again.)

It's the same way for Strain II. The way it's written, you can become a carrier from a harvester or a loup-garou, but unless you're the appropriate species...you get the idea.

The way it should be...hell, the way it used to be back in SR3 and prior, and the way I approached it when Running Wild was still an SR3 boook...was that HMHVV-I was HMHVV-1. You're a human, and you get Infected by a banshee? Sucks to be you, you're turning into a vampire. It was possible under some of what I was doing to become a Carrier, but it was essentially a failed Infection and if you wandered into a mana well or some other such thing, it could be set off. I don't remember the rules I had set up for that -- it's been a long time -- but basically you got Infected, and something allowed you to get up, but the disease hadn't taken hold properly. Your Essence was hosed, of course, but seemed to recover slightly. I might have to see if I've still got the old, old versions of those rules.

Anyway, it used to be way scarier than it is now, IMO. And I've jacked this thread enough, so maybe if this comes up again, we can do it in a different conversation.

Posted by: CanRay Jun 19 2011, 04:21 PM

What's a thread without some derailing?

There was a massive tainted blood scandal in Canada over Hep-C getting into the blood supply, and lots of people getting legitimate surgeries being infected. Not only can they not donate ever again, neither can their immediate families.