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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Monoc Security Services.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Sep 4 2010, 01:58 PM
In Jim Butcher's most recent Harry Dresden book "Changes" we finally get more of a view of Monoc Security Services, the people who provide muscle behind Jonny Marcone. In the past they have just been a name, but it is revealed in this book they are rather more and I wonder if anyone has tried this/encountered this in their SR game.
Run by Donar Vadderung they provide top flight combat troops and heavy security, physical and magical for a pretty penny. The key thing is that Donar Vadderung in the past has been names like Wotan, Woden and Odin. Dimishied osmewhat in power but still more than capable of handling mortals. So in a world where old magic works and Dragons rule has anyone encountered such a situation? It certainly would not be out of place.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 4 2010, 02:10 PM
The Dresden Files are just a great thing to pull ideas out of period. Secret magic cabals, vampiric families, fae, and a huge ass shadowwar.
I was aiming for something like this, using Winternight, but it was more than my meager skills could perform... It didn't help that my group didn't even bother reading the Intro Story to the adventure (*Points at Sig File*), which discouraged me.
So far, all I've been able to do is have my group like Harry Dresden. They get hit in the head. A lot.
Posted by: TommyTwoToes Sep 4 2010, 06:27 PM
Any guess as to who the shooter was at the end of the last book? My bet is on the Summer Knight.
Posted by: crash2029 Sep 4 2010, 06:47 PM
My money is on Kincaid. I just don't see Fix doing that. Then again if it was Kincaid it probably would have been a headshot. This is why Jim Butcher is a bastard.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 4 2010, 08:58 PM
Random drive-by shooting not related to Harry's work at all.
Posted by: toturi Sep 5 2010, 11:41 AM
My bet is Kincaid on Ivy's orders. The Winter Knight's would revert to Winter at his death, but the cold water would drop his metabolism enough so that he can be revived after his "death". Afterall, Mr Butcher pulled this dead and back stunt once already.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 5 2010, 01:35 PM
That is, if Harry can deal with the light at the end of the tunnel being a train.
...
Hey, if you get your head hit in the afterlife, can you get a spiritual concussion?
Posted by: AngelisStorm Sep 7 2010, 01:49 PM
I think it was to easy, dropping the Winter Knight into an ice cold lake. He'll come out of it (more or less) ok(ish).
I'm putting my monies on a random mook sniper, put in place by the Black Council (since Harry would eventually need to go to the boat, considering everything that happened in that book).
Posted by: TommyTwoToes Sep 7 2010, 01:59 PM
I dunno, Fix has pulled a gun on Harry before. That was when he only suspected Harry of taking up the mantle. Now the Summer knight is pretty tough, but if you look at the starting material, Fix was pretty wimpy. Compare to Harry, who is pretty bad-ass to start with, then add on the Winter Knight power, and fix is toast. Fix's only chance is to take him out through an ambush.
I completely agree that there will be some Dues Ex to bring him back.
Back on track, I like the idea of Monoc as a SR organization. Would the Aesir be free spirits, or some weird variation on Shedim?
Posted by: Lansdren Sep 7 2010, 02:10 PM
Bringing Dresden into shadowrun has nothing but win written all over it.
You could in fact run the group as a collection of free spirits / fae. Turn the raised soldiers into raised free spirits in prepared vessels (R's 1-3 would work).
I do like the idea of them having the weapons from all era's in there stockpile so you could call up some actual vikings with the odd guardian spirit in the mix.
Posted by: Lansdren Sep 7 2010, 02:12 PM
slightly off topic, but I cant wait for the next book I know I'll proberbly be mildly annoyed by how they dont let him have died but its not going to stop me enjoying it.
JB is a roleplayer much like us and it shows in his work as the rule of cool is in constant use.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 7 2010, 02:24 PM
A Role Playing group made up of Werewolves, a Wizard (Who plays a Barbarian!), and GMed by a Coroner that knows far too much about what's really going on in the world.
Posted by: Doc Chase Sep 7 2010, 02:47 PM
Clearly I need to go update my Butcher collection. Changes hit paperback yet, or am I going to have to shell out? 
Posted by: TommyTwoToes Sep 7 2010, 02:55 PM
Shell out, JB is worth it.
Posted by: sabs Sep 7 2010, 02:55 PM
Shell
Posted by: Doc Chase Sep 7 2010, 02:56 PM
BAH. I already shelled for Turn Coat.
Amazon.com, save me!
Posted by: sabs Sep 7 2010, 02:58 PM
Amazon.com, save me!
Real Dresden Fans don't complain about the HardCover price
Posted by: Doc Chase Sep 7 2010, 02:59 PM
There's a copy of the hardcover Dresden Files RPG on premises. I think I get a pass.
Posted by: sabs Sep 7 2010, 03:00 PM
That thing was Crazy expensive..
Although I hear it's well worth it.
Posted by: Doc Chase Sep 7 2010, 03:07 PM
I haven't stolen it out of the owner's abode yet, but it's noticably closer than it was before.
I'll try to snag it tonight to give it a read. Hoping that check comes through so I can stop off on the way home and get the novel.
Posted by: toturi Sep 7 2010, 03:25 PM
Real DF fans shouldn't be able to afford hardcover.
Posted by: crash2029 Sep 7 2010, 07:14 PM
I had preordered Changes and recieved it the day it came out. I finished it that day. I have been in purgatory since then.
Posted by: TommyTwoToes Sep 7 2010, 07:45 PM
Oooooo, had another thought, Elaine (Harry's Ex) was an agent of Summer wasn't she? She would have the smarts to know that capping Harry in a way that allows him to be revived could cause the Winter Knight Mantle to pass on and leave him clear of his debt to Mab.
Posted by: Doc Chase Sep 7 2010, 08:24 PM
But would she? She's sweet on Harry, and I can't see her putting a cap in him from long range so as to avoid the Death Curse.
Posted by: AngelisStorm Sep 8 2010, 12:30 AM
Also with everything else that happened in that book, if it was Elaine, I don't think Butcher would have hesitated having Elaine's face appear as Harry sunk into the water.
Oh, and toturi is correct (+1 pt).
(I am going to buy the short story collection when it comes out though. I think it was scheduled for November?)
Posted by: CanRay Sep 8 2010, 02:38 AM
Harry Dresden, the only man with brass ones big enough to bill Heaven!
Posted by: Lansdren Sep 8 2010, 07:20 AM
Very true lol's
I must admit part of me wishes they would do a full movie of the first book but after the unfortunate tv show I'm not so sure it would be a good thing
Posted by: kzt Sep 8 2010, 07:26 AM
Although I hear it's well worth it.
The second book has huge background details. It's all very well done, extremely high quality. I'm not sure I like the mechanics, but it's very cool.
Posted by: kzt Sep 8 2010, 07:27 AM
IIRC, the short story/novella that comes out at the end of the month is supposed to be set "15 minutes after the end of changes".
Posted by: crash2029 Sep 8 2010, 11:57 PM
I liked that show. I prefer the show version of Bob, actually.
Posted by: jakephillips Sep 9 2010, 12:01 AM
Just got back from dragon con and the Jim Butcher panel.
He stated that Harry is DEAD and the next book Ghost Story is Harry as a ghost trying to solve his own murder. So no pulling him out of the water half alive.
Posted by: Nifft Sep 9 2010, 12:14 AM
I wasn't very impressed with the girl-of-the-week nature of the show, but I did like TV Bob.
I'll be quite cross if Harry gets out of being the Winter Knight in by spending the next book dead ("for tax reasons"). I liked how the Lasciel arc was worked out over several books, and I was looking forward to something similar with this life-changing bargain.
Posted by: AngelisStorm Sep 9 2010, 05:52 PM
Oh. 
If Harry is really dead, then that means Lasciel is really dead to. Bummer. I was looking forward to seeing her in a few books, after Harry's wizard brain had time to regenerate.
Posted by: TommyTwoToes Sep 9 2010, 06:17 PM
He stated that Harry is DEAD and the next book Ghost Story is Harry as a ghost trying to solve his own murder. So no pulling him out of the water half alive.
I wonder how big a part Mortimer Lindquist will play. Or if Ms Gard will scoop him up.
Posted by: Nifft Sep 9 2010, 07:22 PM
Well, Harry's soul is now made of divine soulfire, so when he dies he's not going to be a run-of-the-mill ghost, he's going to be some kind of angelic entity... and that's why it's going to be okay for him to come back to life at the end of the book. I think.
I'm guessing the ghost of Kravos was augmented by something similar (but opposite). Not hellfire, but some kind of dark energy, provided by his patron (who is presumably in the the Black Council).
Posted by: Doc Chase Sep 9 2010, 08:10 PM
Made my book order. Should be here next week!
Hooray for reading!
Posted by: TommyTwoToes Sep 9 2010, 08:13 PM
Hooray for reading!
What is the release date for Ghost Stories?
Posted by: Doc Chase Sep 9 2010, 08:16 PM
1st quarter 2011.
Edit: Specifically, March 29 is the scheduled hardcover release date.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Sep 10 2010, 12:00 AM
ah, ok, I was kind of asking about the idea of Odin or Athene or Sutek actually running around in the flesh, not as a spirit or icon but when in Rome.
The book coming out in November is a collection of short stories. I'm hoping there's some new but I'm assuming it's a compilation of the stuff that's been out for a while in collections like 'my big fat supernatural wedding or Strange Brew.
As for who shot Harry? Guys none of you are thinking it through. It was NOT Kincaid. Harry heard the shot and moved just at the last momment-he didn't dodge just got lucky. The idea of shooting someone to death then reviving him is, wrong. My guess is Rudolph. (A) Harry's run out of serious enemies. (B) serious enemies like Lara or the white council are preoccupied ro don't have a pressing need to kill someone they really might be able to use, again, in the future© an attack by spring like that, unprovoked would be an act of war. (D) it was a sloppy job.(E) that's the one loose end still running around. Rudy is dirty. Harry knows it. Harry doesn't go away and Harry has an annoying tendency to dig up unpleasant truths. rudy can set up Karin to go down but Dresden freaking lived through the fight and saw him go all to pieces andm ight be able to draw it all back to him, menaing his ploy against Karin would fail and he might be introuble, the FBI agent already doesn't like him. Dresden could be really awkward.
Posted by: Nifft Sep 10 2010, 02:05 AM
WHAT. You are calling the Black Council -- probably including Cowl, Mavra, Thorny Nicklehead, and certainly not limited to them -- non-serious.
Harry's run out of obvious enemies. His remaining enemies are organized and hidden.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Sep 10 2010, 02:25 AM
none of them are going to use a gun and a bad shot at that. All of them know of his ability to avoid death. They would use a lot more force thana hand gun. Like a bazooka, a pack of ghouls, an insurance salesman. This all seemed rushed, and morelike Rudolph- "you ruined all of it...."
Posted by: Nifft Sep 10 2010, 03:00 AM
I'm not saying Rudolph is a bad guess, but I am very much saying Harry's list of serious enemies hasn't decreased by more than one, and his recent very successful efforts have probably moved him a few places up on their lists.
Posted by: kzt Sep 10 2010, 03:40 AM
It's easier and safer to hire (via a cutout) some random smoe with a rifle that to go try to kill him with magic yourself. There are also a lot more expert shots than major league sorcerers.
Posted by: crash2029 Sep 10 2010, 08:35 PM
I admit that Kincaid is not a likely suspect due to the circumstances of the shot. I also agree that Rudolph is a viable suspect. However I have a gut feeling that I cannot shake that Kincaid is involved. He does have motive. Harry put alot of pressure on Ivy and there is definately something developing with Murphy. I can see Kincaid responding with a bullet. Kincaid, from what I have gathered, would have used a headshot to kill but my gut won't let go of him. I don't know.
As for Aesir walking around in the flesh in SR, I can totally see that. With the awakening the beings that were previously worshipped as gods could possibly manifest on Midgard. Of course they would not have any where near the power they once possesed but they would still be formidable. And very likely nobody would think they were gods. Cynicism being what it is.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Sep 12 2010, 12:48 AM
Rudolph. When Romans were given a triumphal marcxh through the city, an honored slave would ride in his chariot. To the world he was there to hold a laurel wreath over the vicctor's head but his other job was to whisper a reminder in the victor's ear "You are mortal."
Ivy wouldn't allow it and Harry backed off her. The red court is gone. The white court has no reason to move on him, the white council was laid up with what ever bug was spread in Edinburgh. Legal cops or feds could have just arrested him. It would also be a great reminder of mortality. He destroys vampires and aztec gods, serves faerie queens, hob nobs with ancient dieties, is guardian of the sword once swung by a squire named Wart and mouths off to the freaking angel of death! and yet if he is not careful some crack pot dirty cop can still do great harm.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 12 2010, 12:57 AM
I'm thinking stray bullet that has nothing to do whatsoever from previous story lines.
It'd be something new!
Posted by: toturi Sep 12 2010, 01:02 AM
It'd be something new!
True. It's Changes, afterall.
Posted by: kzt Sep 12 2010, 01:09 AM
No, it's going to be he assumed that the guys who shot at him earlier were working for the Red Court, but they weren't. The Black Council is an obvious suspect who would really like him removed, but there are lots more.
It's damn hard to create this kind of complex interleaved plot in an RPG. Players just don't play the part you planned....
Posted by: CanRay Sep 12 2010, 01:16 AM
You got that right. Check the Quoteables posts for my most recent comment on that.
'Course, the characters I write for will often throw me a curve ball as well. But I only have myself to blame for that.
Posted by: Nifft Sep 12 2010, 11:21 PM
Nah. Just don't bother prepping plot (in the large). Prep NPC motivations and NPC plots (in the small), and let the players make their own complications through incomplete information and only partially ruining the plots of the powerful.
Posted by: Snow_Fox Sep 13 2010, 01:30 AM
Gee, how often does Harry complain he's been forced into a situation?
Posted by: CanRay Sep 13 2010, 02:09 AM
About as often as I complain about my age, I think. (It started as an in-joke, for you Elders out there.).
And I think I remember him saying his life was like something out of a bad detective novel or some such... But my memory...
Posted by: CanRay Aug 24 2011, 05:16 AM
Well, Ghost Story is out, I read it, and know who did the shot and why.
A lot of people guessed right, but for the wrong reasons.
Posted by: ggodo Aug 24 2011, 06:21 AM
I'd guessed Murphy, before Side Jobs.
Posted by: CanRay Aug 24 2011, 06:30 AM
Murphy manned up in Ghost Story!
...
Yes, I said that right.
Posted by: hermit Aug 24 2011, 12:47 PM
Run by Donar Vadderung they provide top flight combat troops and heavy security, physical and magical for a pretty penny. The key thing is that Donar Vadderung in the past has been names like Wotan, Woden and Odin. Dimishied osmewhat in power but still more than capable of handling mortals. So in a world where old magic works and Dragons rule has anyone encountered such a situation? It certainly would not be out of place.
Well, van Helsing has, with this nosferatu-run mercenary corp in the Terminus Experiment. Sort of, at least. And yes, then there's Winternight. But their leadership is actually fairly mundane toxic shamans.
Toxic spirits of man. Shedim are low-level Horrors. Not even Toxics like these.
Though that's not strictly Shadowrun, Passions from Earthdawn used to do this once. Essentially, a Passion is just an insanely powerful spirit (and, depending on your reading of the Charette Trilogy, so are Patron Spirits and Totems).
Posted by: Lansdren Aug 24 2011, 03:08 PM
Honestly wouldnt see them as toxic if going by the source material, granted everything in shadowrun is tainted in some way but I kind of like the idea of them being more neutral then toxic
Posted by: CanRay Aug 24 2011, 03:09 PM
Not so much toxic as sold out and gone corporate.
Posted by: hermit Aug 24 2011, 04:38 PM
Well, I was thinking of Winternight. Less nasty Aesir spirts might just be spirits of men, beasts, plants or water (ice).
Posted by: CanRay Aug 24 2011, 04:48 PM
Winternight was toxic, yes. Even more frightening, they were Toxics that WORKED TOGETHER.
Posted by: hermit Aug 24 2011, 07:58 PM
In Secrets of Power, there was a cabal of toxic Wendigos working together. With their own corporation. It's not that new. It's just rare that these rabid monsters can actually agree on anything for any period of time.
Posted by: CanRay Aug 24 2011, 08:30 PM
Yeah, and when they do, bad things happen.
Make that "Bad Things", can't forget the capitalization. Also, the Infected do tend to stick together for some bizarre reason.
EDIT: Also, they were a Cult.
Posted by: Lansdren Aug 25 2011, 08:28 AM
I see your point, I just like the setup of them from the Dresden books, Also could be interesting as a counterpoint to the winternight lot, less Loki more Odin
Posted by: CanRay Aug 25 2011, 03:33 PM
Hell, they weren't even working for Loki, even Twisted Loki. They just had a really messed up Luddite world view!
"We hate technology, so we're going to use a computer virus and nanite weapons to bring about Ragnarök!" is what it comes down to.
...
And Friday is still out there, and is now free.
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