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Posted by: Mystweaver Sep 6 2010, 12:01 PM

My character has the Physical Barrier spell and we play SR3 but it seems rather weak and the descriptor of the spell seems a little odd as well.

It creates a physical wall that if broken through the spell is also broken. In the same instance, if the barriers force is reduce by an attack it comes back up to its full force at the beginning of the next combat turn.

So if I have a force 6 physical barrier around my character/ team, and we are shot at by a heavy pistol, does the first 9M bullet destroy the barrier? I can't seem to find the correct mechanics for how this works.

Could someone please advise (with if possible page references to the rules to help me clarify with my GM).

Also, is it moveable? Or is it centered on the location it is cast?

Thanks,

Myst

Posted by: Grinder Sep 6 2010, 12:08 PM

There is a rules section about attacking a barrier that will help you a lot (can't give you any page reference, 'cause I don't have my 3rd edition BBB here).

Iirc, the barrier cannot be moved.

Posted by: Angelone Sep 6 2010, 12:16 PM

The barrier rules are on page 124 of the 3rd ed BBB. It is very unlikely that someone will get through it with a heavy pistol.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 7 2010, 06:47 PM

Expanding on Angelone's page reference, etc.:

Per the barrier rules, barriers can be either compromised (opening a hole) or weakened without any associated hole. The weakening reduces Barrier Rating; it is this damage which is restored if the barrier survives to the next turn. If a hole is opened, the spell ends.


Per barrier rules, Breaking Through (p125), barrier rating is doubled against firearms for the purpose of damaging the barrier. Thus, your Force 6 Physical Barrier (assuming no extra successes) has a base barrier rating of 6, doubled to 12. 9 is greater than 1/2 barrier rating but not greater than barrier rating, so the barrier rating is reduced by 1 to 5 (this one's tricky, at the start of this post I was thinking in terms of it being reduced to 11). A second shot from a heavy pistol in the same turn will reduce barrier rating to 4 (5 < 9 < 10), and when it absorbs the third shot it comes down (8 < 9).

Note that every two successes on the Sorcery test increase the barrier rating by 1, so while the TN's a bit high to expect it you may well end up with BR 7 and an extra pistol-shot worth of soaking power.


This turns out to be a tricky question, since Physical Barrier doesn't state in its description that it is an Area spell, but the Spell Table in the back of MitS lists it as one. Consequently, as an Area Manipulation spell that is Sustained, it falls under the rules on MitS p51, so you can relocate a Physical Barrier to a new location within line of sight with a Complex Action.

~J

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 7 2010, 07:50 PM

i think i remember the barrier being moveable by magic attribute meters inside the field of view of the caster . . but don't ask for page references.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 7 2010, 08:14 PM

It can be formed as a wall with (curiously) height of Force meters and length of Magic Attribute meters, as an alternative to a dome encompassing the upper half of the usual AoE. I can't find any suggestion of special movement rules, though.

~J

Posted by: Pendaric Sep 7 2010, 11:19 PM

One thing to note, and please understand am not muddying the waters here, though bullets could create small holes in the barrier so breaking the barrier per the fluff description, the breaking through rules in the BBB Kagetenshi states ,essencially, mean you run the barrier as hardened armour till a hole opens beating the barrier rating.

Every one went through this once upon a time with me, so this seems to be the best way to run things.

Posted by: Dahrken Sep 8 2010, 05:46 AM

The point was discussed before on this forum.

Since the general rule about sustained AOE spell (like Chaotic world) say they can be moved, and it is a Sustained spell with an area of effect, this suggest it can be moved/reshaped as long as the caster keep it in it's line of sight, but it is not explicitely stated in the spell description.

So this is open to debate and you need to ask your GM - or decide if you're the GM - about this specific point at your table.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 8 2010, 02:09 PM

I was about to correct you by noting the restriction on spell class, but a quick check in MitS shows that there are no sustained AoE spells which aren't Illusions or Manipulations. I guess it's something to keep in mind if you get funky with the spell design rules.

~J

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 8 2010, 02:27 PM

Er, if a spell says "You can do this!", doesn't that imply that you normally CAN'T do it?

Specific rule trumping the General rule, after all. If you normally can do it, why make a special mention?



-karma

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 8 2010, 03:58 PM

The unusual part is that Physical Barrier doesn't explicitly say that it's an area spell, unlike many other area spells listed in SR3; your logic is reasonable, and I'd initially inferred on the same grounds that PB wasn't area, but fortunately it's listed in the spell table in MitS and is clearly identified there as area. There's nothing unusual about the presence or absence of movement-related rules that I saw.

Basically, the chronic disorganization of Shadowrun makes the sort of inference you're talking about treacherous.

(I should note that I disagree with Dahrken's claim that it's open to debate—the answer is obfuscated but unambiguous, and the GM does not have deciding authority unless he or she explicitly creates a houserule.)

~J

Posted by: Grinder Sep 8 2010, 05:01 PM

That's true, but the same goes for 95% of the discusses topics on this board.

Posted by: Dahrken Sep 8 2010, 05:06 PM

There is a point that remain unanswered, even after looking into MitS. Can you reshape your barrier on the fly, or are you limited to moving it ?

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 8 2010, 05:17 PM

Ooh, good catch. I think strict canon would have to be no (since it's not something you can usually do, and there's no special reshaping clause that applies), but there's about as little to stand on as you can get for the answer there.

~J