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Posted by: graymagiker Sep 7 2010, 05:56 AM

I am designing a run, and I want to know how many people comfortably [or uncomfortably] fit into a Mig-67. The vehicle appears in Arsenal [pg 112]. It's body is listed as 18, but it doesn't say how many people could fit in it.

I don't know if just using body is a good comparison though. If it is, then the Rover SUV 2068 has a body of 13, so then the Mig should be able to carry 1 more person than a regular SUV; let's say 7-8 people.

Is this listed somewhere and I am just failing to read? Is there a standard for how many bodies can fit into a given vehicle?

If the answer to the above is no, then does having a HTR team of 7 people + gear fit into a Mig-67 sound reasonable?

Posted by: WyldKnight Sep 7 2010, 05:59 AM

Isn't the Mig 67 a type of transport aircraft? I believe it states in the description it could transport does of military supplies when the seats were removed or am I thinking of something else? That sounds perfectly reasonable, just say this one is designed to carry people and supplies, easy as that. People modify different aircraft for different reasons all the time.

Posted by: Mooncrow Sep 7 2010, 06:07 AM

It's a thunderbird, which SR4A says the normal seating is 8.

(the table for passenger seating is page 348)

Posted by: Smokeskin Sep 7 2010, 10:03 AM

Since it says it is made for transport, I'd place it at 8 plus crew (pilot and gunner) = 10.

Posted by: Mayhem_2006 Sep 7 2010, 04:47 PM

VEHICLE SEATING
Personal Mobility Vehicle 1
Motorbike 2
Subcompact 2
Compact 3 or 4
Sedan 5
Sportscar 3
Limousine 5
Family Van 5 to 7
Delivery Van 3
Patrol Car 5
APC/Riot Control Vehicle 10 to 14
T-Bird 8
Autogyro/Aerial Personal Mobility Vehicle 1
Cargo Helicopter 4
Utility Helicopter 7
Personal Jet 5 to 10
Transport Plane 20

Posted by: kbrock1 Sep 7 2010, 04:52 PM

if you do find you need more room, dwarves can be used as hood ornaments, or strapped to a roof rack

Posted by: CanRay Sep 7 2010, 09:37 PM

"I am Kenneth Brackhaven, and I approve this message."

Posted by: Shrike30 Sep 7 2010, 10:09 PM

As the table lists PMV's as 1 and motorcycles as 2, I read that 8 as "8 including crew" (6-7 passengers).

Posted by: Shrike30 Sep 7 2010, 10:09 PM

As the table lists PMV's as 1 and motorcycles as 2, I read that 8 as "8 including crew" (6-7 passengers). It being a transport-type t-bird (and possibly this being important for your plot) you could always just say it holds as many as you need it to.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 7 2010, 11:17 PM

Yeah, I'd have to imagine a cargo helicopter could hold a wee bit more than just 4 passengers if it had to.

The list might just be referring to actual seats, though.



-karma

Posted by: CanRay Sep 7 2010, 11:24 PM

How many soldiers can you cram into a Huey?

Posted by: Matsci Sep 7 2010, 11:27 PM

14, according to Wikipedia.

Posted by: Khyron Sep 7 2010, 11:57 PM

Twice that if they're really close friends.

Posted by: Neurosis Sep 8 2010, 01:23 AM

Is this RAW at all?

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 8 2010, 01:50 AM

Located in SR4A... Page 348, Sidebar...

Posted by: Neurosis Sep 8 2010, 02:14 AM

Bitchin'. That is something I'd always wondered.

Posted by: Neurosis Sep 8 2010, 02:14 AM

(Server hiccup resulting in unintentional double post.)

Posted by: Yerameyahu Sep 8 2010, 02:16 AM

As someone mentioned, remember that that's vehicle *seating*, not cargo capacity. Both are useful.

Posted by: Mayhem_2006 Sep 8 2010, 05:25 AM

Yeah - extra seating really should be a standard mod. Off the top of my head, maybe 2 slots to increase original capacity by 50% (which avoids having to have special rules for drones, since 50% of zero is still zero).

Don't forget that you can double that if you decrease the amenities from low to squatter. Military transports or city buses, for example.

***

Whilst I can appreciate the simplicity over older versions of the vehicle rules, choosing to drop the stats for how many people or how much cargo you can get into a vehicle was a real mistake - for many vehicles its pretty much the most important stat!

Moving people and cargo around is a vehicles primary function, no matter what other bells and whistles you put on it, so leaving those stats out was a pretty glaring omission.

Cargo is the only reason a pickup might be preferable to a large sedan, and nobody buys a conestoga vista for its speed or durability, but purely for the number of people it can carry (or the amount of ANFO, in the case of some runners). And likewise, you might want a Zugsmachine tractor unit to convert into a civilian "tank" but again, the only reason to buy the trailer is to carry a cargo, so knowing how much will fit inside is kinda important IMO.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Sep 8 2010, 05:31 AM

Well, it relies on the GM guessing at what the vehicle looks like and then gut-checking it for the player. I agree: a little fuzzy for my tastes, too. Alas, Rigger 4…

Posted by: Sengir Sep 8 2010, 09:45 AM

There is a genereal lack of a "size" stat of a vehicle, neither interior not exterior. There is only body, which serves as a reference for size (which again factors into perception and attack rolls), survivability and how many mods you can cram into a vehicle. Given the diverse range of vehicles this naturally leads to oddities - Stormcloud RC blimb is no larger than a Doberman ground-pounder drone? And can carry the same ammount of mods?
IMO the vehicle rules would greatly benefit from a distinction between "body" and "size", size could then be simply written as "outside(inside)" and everybody would be happy.


PS: The word is "Zugmaschine" by the way, the "sch" being pronounced as "sh"

Posted by: Lansdren Sep 8 2010, 11:23 AM

Oh for a Rigger 4

Posted by: Sengir Sep 8 2010, 12:07 PM

Remember the curse of the rigger book...

Posted by: Lansdren Sep 8 2010, 01:39 PM

True

Posted by: sabs Sep 8 2010, 06:33 PM

Every Company that has printed a Rigger book has shortly there after either gone out of business, or lost the license.



That should tell you something about Riggers

Posted by: Mayhem_2006 Sep 8 2010, 08:27 PM

I have a vague idea floating around in my head for a vehicle system in which each class of vehicle has a basic stat line and then to create variations of a class you pick from a list of adjectives.

Said adjectives would not be modifications (so cannot be removed or installed), and they would be things that are particular to that production model, and every one of that model would be the same.
There would be positive and negative ones, and any car must have the same amount of pros as cons (even if all of the cons are "expensive", creating a great car with an appropriate price-tag).

Adjectives might include:

Roomy: Fits 50% extra passengers
Cramped: Cannot carry trolls, has squatter level amenities, and don't even try making out on the back seat
Rugged: Less likely to stop running when taking damage
Tempremental: More likely to stop running when taking damage.
Robust: Extra body
Flimsy: Less body
Cheap: Costs less
Expensive: Costs more
Ubiquitous: There's a million of em on the street (bonus to go un-noticed, availabily and repair cost)
Sore thumb: Rare enough to attract extra attention, availabilty is higher as are repair costs)
Economic: Increased fuel efficiency
Gas Guzzler: decreased fuel efficiency.
Crammed: less modification slots.
Rigger's dream: Extra modification slots.

Fast, nimble, nippy, solid, steers-like-a-cow,
A pair (positive and negative) of adjectives for every stat (including "stats" that are not in the statline such as fuel economy or number of passengers etc)

The qualifier "Very" can be used for vehicles that have the same adjective twice (maybe have "extremely" for the same mod 3 times?).

Then to describe any production vehicle you can simply list it as a character might describe it.

"The Jackrabbit? Oh sure, its an ubiquitous, cheap subcompact, but its cramped and flimsy."

"The Shin-Hyung? My bud's got one of those, its a nimble, nippy, greased sedan, a rigger's dream but not-so-smart, a gas guzzler and very expensive"

***

Modifications would still apply of course, including factory installed modifications. These would only be for defining the differences between production models. By only needing a simple sentence for each type of vehicle within a given class, you could print the stat block once and then just list some example descriptions for particular models - and it would make it very easy for a GM to create other models on the fly.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Sep 8 2010, 08:29 PM

Well, the GM can manipulate the Similar Models with *minor* tweaks to the stats.