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Posted by: yesferatu Sep 15 2010, 04:21 PM

So I was reading up on dual-natured beings and I'm a little confused about astral combat.

Let's say a ghoul is running around an apartment complex.
They appear on both the physical and astral plane simultaneously, but they do not have astral projection, right?
So is their astral form basically tethered to their physical body?

Could a spirit, or astrally projected mage, stay out of range and fling manabolts at the ghoul's stationary astral form?
Could that mage stay outside the building, go astral and attack the ghoul with impunity?
Can a mage drop an astral barrier to stop a dual-natured creature's physical form?

I can't seem to find it in the core.

Posted by: Neraph Sep 15 2010, 04:34 PM

1) Yes.

2) Yes.

3) Yes, and that's probably your best bet.

4) Not really, as Astral Combat is basically melee combat. You'd get in range for the ghoul to attack and you'd be attacked back yourself.

5) ... I think so.

Posted by: sabs Sep 15 2010, 04:36 PM

Clarification on 4.
You can cast mana bolt spells from the Astral Plane.
So an Astrally projecting mage, could sit back and kite a ghoul on the astral plane while casting Manabolts.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Sep 15 2010, 05:06 PM

Yup: sux to be dual-natured. Basically, you'd expect almost anything dual-natured to simply die in very short order.

Posted by: Summerstorm Sep 15 2010, 05:07 PM

And that is why ghouls prefer crowded, small places with lots of cover. If you want to see them there, you need to be near... and can be surprised by an unholy powerful dual-creature claw to the face.

Anything dual has the reflex "run into a small room and punch anything coming through the wall" if it gets dangerous *g*.

Posted by: Saint Sithney Sep 15 2010, 09:13 PM

If dual natured creatures always perceiving on the astral and physical at the same time, do they receive visibility penalties from both?
e.g. the pixie always has a -4 penalty to toss manabolts at that Astral Hazing mofo on account of the emotional noise hanging around him like smoke.

Posted by: Badmoodguy88 Sep 15 2010, 09:18 PM

Dual nature creatures do not the -2 modifier for seeing both at the same time.

Posted by: jakephillips Sep 16 2010, 01:36 AM

Yep being dual natured can be scary.
Just remember that things that block line of sight in the real world also block LOS in the astral.

Posted by: Dakka Dakka Sep 16 2010, 05:43 AM

Actually real dual natured creatures do not suffer the -2 because they perceive both planes at the same time. Metahuman awakened characters only perceive one plane at once

Posted by: jaellot Sep 16 2010, 12:15 PM

Isn't there something about how they aren't stopped by a ward? It might be only certain kinds, but if feels like I've read that somewhere.

This is interesting, because my next run for my guys involves a prison that's been infested. Dungeon-crawlish, zombie-fest, I know, but I think they will enjoy a clear cut dilemma for a change.

Posted by: Laodicea Sep 16 2010, 12:35 PM

I asked this question a couple months back.

The RAW answer is that: It's dangerous to be continually dual-natured, especially if you dont have anything to reach out and touch the spirit or projecting mage who can kite you forever. A mana-bolt goes a long way toward keeping you safe.

Some people have houseruled astral combat so that there are no ranges. You can mana-bolt, or melee, anyone in astral if you can astrally perceive them. I personally don't like this houserule, but some people do.

There's also the discussion of how some continually dual-natured critters ever managed to evolve that way since it seems like more of a disadvantage than an advantage. The answer to this question is of course: MAGIC!!!

Posted by: Doc Byte Sep 16 2010, 01:02 PM

They funny thing is, some lose this ability by RAW upon shifting the form. A Drake can attack someone with his claws without suffering -2D. But he does suffer -2D when he's shooting at someone in his metahuman form and using astral sight (provided he's a mage or ki-ad) at the same time.