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Posted by: KCKitsune Apr 14 2011, 05:43 PM

OK, I said I was going to post my one character, but I forgot my thumb drive so couldn't do it yesterday. Here he is.

*EDIT* I dropped the Etiquette skill down a point, dropped Infiltration a point (I've got Improved Invisibility to help in the times I really need to be stealthy), dropped the Specialization for Summoning and took First Aid 2 and specialized with Combat Wounds.

*EDIT 2* I took Bodak's suggestion and took Sterilize. It replaces Stunball

Michael Ravenwood "Compass"

Role: Combat Medic Mage

Attributes = 160 BP

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Spells = 24 BP

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Positive Qualities = 35 BP

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Negative Qualities = -35 BP

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Skills = 110 BP

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Knowledge Skills

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Gear = 50 BP

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Contacts:

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Important dice pools: (Thanks Makki for the idea)
Spells (other than Health): Magic 3 + Skill 5 + Focus 2 = 10
Health Spells: Magic 3 +Skill 7 + Focus 2= 12
Counterspelling: Magic 3 + Skill 4 = 7
Drain: Log 4 + Will 4= 8 (has 10 dice for Cure Disease)

Perception Checks: Skill 2 + Intuition 3 + Cyber Enhancements 2 = 7 (10 dice for Scent Perception Checks)
First Aid: Skill 2 + Log 4 + Medkit 6= 12 (14 for a combat wound)
Pistols & Heavy Weapons: Skill 1 + Smart 2 + Agi 3= 6 (8 for semi-auto pistols & grenade launchers))
Unarmed: Skill 3 + Agi 3 = 6 (8 if he's using his shock hand)

I used the spoiler tags so that I didn't have a whole wall of text. I know that this is not an optimal build, but I think that it would be a... passable character.

Posted by: Bodak Apr 14 2011, 11:58 PM

No First Aid(Combat wounds) on a Medic?

Posted by: ggodo Apr 15 2011, 12:27 AM

That confused me too, maybe he relies purely on magic for medicking? I don't know.

Posted by: CanRay Apr 15 2011, 12:56 AM

MedKits don't have Drain Values.

Posted by: ggodo Apr 15 2011, 01:02 AM

QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 14 2011, 05:56 PM)

MedKits don't have Drain Values.

That's what I was thinking.

Posted by: Seerow Apr 15 2011, 01:11 AM

Can you use First Aid and Heal together?

I know that First Aid can't be used on a wound that's been healed magically, but I haven't been able to see anything that prevents you from using Heal on a wound that's been healed with a first aid kid.

Posted by: Makki Apr 15 2011, 01:18 AM

QUOTE (Seerow @ Apr 14 2011, 09:11 PM)

Can you use First Aid and Heal together?

I know that First Aid can't be used on a wound that's been healed magically, but I haven't been able to see anything that prevents you from using Heal on a wound that's been healed with a first aid kid.

That's how you do it. I'll add my Medic Mystic Adept soon.

Posted by: CanRay Apr 15 2011, 01:18 AM

First Aid, then Heal. Perfect combo.

Posted by: Makki Apr 15 2011, 01:50 AM

My new char, I wrote up yesterday/today. Yamila is an arabic woman, who fled from her home continent, because of the shame she brought to her family by practizing magic, although she was only trying to help...The shadows are her only way to be free, nobody is judging her here. Whe she was young, she was very clumsy, but through her beliefs and her magic she was able to overcome this penalty. She's an asset to every team due to her Healing abilites and her brilliant mind.

Attributes = 250 BP (including Edge and Magic)

[ Spoiler ]

Positive Qualities = 35 BP

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Negative Qualities = -35 BP

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Skills = 92 BP

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Knowledge Skills

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Adept Powers

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Spells = 15 BP

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Gear = 38 BP

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First thing to get is a F4 Sustaining focus, then stuff for the cyberarm. Karmawise, obviously get some specs. Then some technical skills, and if possible upgrade Logic to 7(10).

Important dice pools before mods:
First Aid: Skill 9 + Log 9 + Medkit 6 + Nanites 3 + Pushed 1= 28
Health Spells: Magic 2 +Skill 4 + Focus 3= 9 (11 in case Expert Aspect optional rule is used)
Drain: Log 9 + Will 5= 14 (will need to overcast every spell)
Automatics: Skill 4 + Smart 2 + Agi 9= 15
Unarmed: Skill 3 + Agi 9 + Touch Attack 2= 14

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 15 2011, 01:56 AM

Makki...

How did you spend 250 BP on Attributes when 200 is the Max for a Normal Starting Character?
Just Curious...

Posted by: Faraday Apr 15 2011, 02:02 AM

QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 14 2011, 05:56 PM)

Makki...

How did you spend 250 BP on Attributes when 200 is the Max for a Normal Starting Character?
Just Curious...

Doing the math... he actually spent 215. Plus 70 for edge and magic.

Total BP expenditure is 430, so 215 would be just right.

Posted by: Makki Apr 15 2011, 02:12 AM

I edited the BP cost in. You're missing the fact, that I didn't hardmax Logic. Metagenetic Improvement raises the max to 7.

Posted by: KCKitsune Apr 15 2011, 02:42 AM

OK, I can see where everyone is going with their comments. Re-check the character and let me know how you like it. Also thank you everyone for your comments.

Now here are some of my "Design" notes. I wanted a character who might be a little sane in the dice pool department. I wanted Compass to be a survivor of Chicago (hence the rating 4 with Magical threats and a specialization with Insect Spirits)... and the skill with a grenade launcher. )

Posted by: Faraday Apr 15 2011, 03:06 AM

QUOTE (Makki @ Apr 14 2011, 06:12 PM)

I edited the BP cost in. You're missing the fact, that I didn't hardmax Logic. Metagenetic Improvement raises the max to 7.

Not used to that crazy stuff from RC.

Posted by: KCKitsune Apr 15 2011, 03:07 AM

QUOTE (Faraday @ Apr 14 2011, 11:06 PM)

Not used to that crazy stuff from RC.

That stuff is crazy expensive!

Posted by: Seerow Apr 15 2011, 03:29 AM

QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Apr 15 2011, 03:07 AM)

That stuff is crazy expensive!

Is that sarcasm? Surge is way cheaper to raise your attribute than the Exceptional Attribute out of core.

Exceptional Attribute: 20 BP, doesn't give you the stat point, so you have to pay for that separately, so 30 BP.
Surge Metagenetic Improvement: Requires class 2 surge, 10 BP. Gives you the stat. Downside is you have to take a couple extra negative flaws. Of course these are frequently things that won't affect you, like ever, such as impaired attribute (some attribute you don't care about for your character).

I love getting a higher benefit for half the cost, don't you?

Posted by: Bodak Apr 15 2011, 05:54 AM

I always include Sterilise in my spell list. It's good for destroying incriminating evidence, ritual links, keeping FAB at bay, and can help offset the Bad Conditions situational modifier to First Aid, providing you with a sterile environment on demand.

Posted by: bluedao Apr 15 2011, 09:06 AM

What happened to my dumpshock... these don't feel like min maxed characters at all... it's runners companion so they should... but... it almost feels like their rp characters... I think I'm going to go back to one of the troll bow threads, they feel safer.

Posted by: KCKitsune Apr 15 2011, 10:14 AM

QUOTE (Bodak @ Apr 15 2011, 01:54 AM)

I always include Sterilise in my spell list. It's good for destroying incriminating evidence, ritual links, keeping FAB at bay, and can help offset the Bad Conditions situational modifier to First Aid, providing you with a sterile environment on demand.

Thank you for that idea. I really appreciate it.

QUOTE (bluedao @ Apr 15 2011, 05:06 AM)

What happened to my dumpshock... these don't feel like min maxed characters at all... it's runners companion so they should... but... it almost feels like their rp characters... I think I'm going to go back to one of the troll bow threads, they feel safer.

I tried to have someone who's not... optimized. Yeah I most likely spent way too much on gear, but there you go.

QUOTE (Seerow @ Apr 14 2011, 11:29 PM)

Is that sarcasm? Surge is way cheaper to raise your attribute than the Exceptional Attribute out of core.

Exceptional Attribute: 20 BP, doesn't give you the stat point, so you have to pay for that separately, so 30 BP.
Surge Metagenetic Improvement: Requires class 2 surge, 10 BP. Gives you the stat. Downside is you have to take a couple extra negative flaws. Of course these are frequently things that won't affect you, like ever, such as impaired attribute (some attribute you don't care about for your character).

I love getting a higher benefit for half the cost, don't you?

What I was getting at with Exceptional Attribute is that it is 20 points. There are a lot of things that you can get for 20 points that have an immediate effect. Exceptional Attribute only gives you the possibility to go higher than racial max... by one point.

Posted by: Faraday Apr 15 2011, 10:52 AM

QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Apr 15 2011, 02:14 AM)

What I was getting at with Exceptional Attribute is that it is 20 points. There are a lot of things that you can get for 20 points that have an immediate effect. Exceptional Attribute only gives you the possibility to go higher than racial max... by one point.

The most efficient way to use Exceptional attribute is to soft cap the affected attribute. Basically, it works out to costing 5 more BP than hard maxing your attribute (30 BP vs 25), which isn't too bad. Still a good deal more expensive than Metagenic improvement, of course. A lot of people I know just don't allow SURGE in general. This is only true in BP gen, of course. With karmagen, exceptional attribute just terrible.

This is why I use a house rule that makes exceptional attribute/lucky 5BP/10 karma. You still can only take it once and it costs 25 BP for both your soft AND hard max in this case.

Posted by: Irion Apr 15 2011, 11:01 AM

Exeptional attribute increases your max. aug. Attribute, too.
If you have a mage/medic with improved logic and later on with the genetic improvement you end up with:
Logic 8/12. (But you do not have to go up to 8 if you use spell to get the improvement)

What I do not get about the character is, that he is having some weapon skills but not the biotech group.
This group is very usefull, for a medic.

Posted by: Makki Apr 15 2011, 12:13 PM

QUOTE (bluedao @ Apr 15 2011, 05:06 AM)

What happened to my dumpshock... these don't feel like min maxed characters at all... it's runners companion so they should... but... it almost feels like their rp characters... I think I'm going to go back to one of the troll bow threads, they feel safer.

thanks for noticing

, what It's supposed to be. It's a much bigger challenge to create rp chars. min-maxing is something I can do within one or two commercial break(s). But a dice pool o 28 for a rp char isn't bad after all, is it?

But if you feel safer, I can probably put 10 more points into First Aid, making the character completely unplayable. Just for you

Posted by: KCKitsune Apr 15 2011, 02:39 PM

QUOTE (Faraday @ Apr 15 2011, 06:52 AM)

The most efficient way to use Exceptional attribute is to soft cap the affected attribute. Basically, it works out to costing 5 more BP than hard maxing your attribute (30 BP vs 25), which isn't too bad. Still a good deal more expensive than Metagenic improvement, of course. A lot of people I know just don't allow SURGE in general. This is only true in BP gen, of course. With karmagen, exceptional attribute just terrible.

It is kinda silly for GMs to blanket denial of SURGE. The thing that GMs should do is enforce a template for a SURGE characters.

Let's take a look at my character. I took the template of descendant of a fox shifter

Positive

Celerity: Stereotype of the swift fox
Bi-Cardiac: This one is a stretch, but I figured that if I have a fast character I want him to run farther.
Vomeronasal Organ: Foxes have a really good sense of smell
Balance Tail: Fox shifters have a tail, a SURGEling based on one would have a tail

Negative

Mood Hair (both his fox ears and his tail will react): Like an animal, my character's mood can be determined by his ears and tail
Impaired (Body) & Impaired (Strength): Fox shifters have reduced stats and therefore a SURGEling based on one should have the same limits.

QUOTE (Faraday @ Apr 15 2011, 06:52 AM)

This is why I use a house rule that makes exceptional attribute/lucky 5BP/10 karma. You still can only take it once and it costs 25 BP for both your soft AND hard max in this case.

Why not make it 25 points so the character will have spend 35 BP to get the new soft max. This way the character won't get penalized twice for the attribute.

QUOTE (Irion @ Apr 15 2011, 07:01 AM)

What I do not get about the character is, that he is having some weapon skills but not the biotech group.
This group is very usefull, for a medic.

He's a medic, not a surgeon. He is also a combat medic, hence the small skill with hand to hand (if you noticed he has a shock hand), pistols, and grenade launchers. Being a medic, he's not carrying the rifles, but if the feces hits the rotary air circulator, a grenade pistol can do a world of hurt to drones, and a light pistol with SnS can be bad for everyone else. If he can't draw his weapon he has stunbolt as a backup weapon.

For background, I was thinking he was working for DocWagon, but when he SURGEd, he was fired. This is still very rough idea, and may not be final. To that end I'm dropping the Magical Threats knowledge down two points and added insect magic as a specialization. I'm dropping Magical Background down one point adding two points Medical Background with a specialization in Combat Medicine.

Posted by: Makki Apr 15 2011, 02:48 PM

QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Apr 15 2011, 10:39 AM)

It is kinda silly for GMs to blanket denial of SURGE. The thing that GMs should do is enforce a template for a SURGE characters.

It's RAW two have a theme for a SURGE Class III and I would always do that, but it's basically impossible for Class I and II. And some qualities just don't fit into the animal world...

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 15 2011, 02:59 PM

QUOTE (Makki @ Apr 15 2011, 07:48 AM)

It's RAW two have a theme for a SURGE Class III and I would always do that, but it's basically impossible for Class I and II. And some qualities just don't fit into the animal world...

I would not say that it is impossible... It can be done.

Posted by: KCKitsune Apr 15 2011, 03:32 PM

QUOTE (Makki @ Apr 15 2011, 10:48 AM)

It's RAW two have a theme for a SURGE Class III and I would always do that, but it's basically impossible for Class I and II. And some qualities just don't fit into the animal world...

It doesn't have to fit the animal world, but if I were GMing I would enforce a theme for ANY level of SURGE. You have to justify why you took those positive qualities.

Now Makki & Tymeaus, what do you think about my character? Does he come across as someone who might be real in the Shadowrun world? Do the SURGE traits that I took fit the template and are not power gaming? I want this character to be good without being a superman. Yeah, he has weaknesses, but they're not glaring. He has strengths, but they're not overpowering.

I have changed some of the items, so please take another look. I'll be coming up with a background for him, and I'll post that.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 15 2011, 03:38 PM

QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Apr 15 2011, 08:32 AM)

It doesn't have to fit the animal world, but if I were GMing I would enforce a theme for ANY level of SURGE. You have to justify why you took those positive qualities.

Now Makki & Tymeaus, what do you think about my character? Does he come across as someone who might be real in the Shadowrun world? Do the SURGE traits that I took fit the template and are not power gaming? I want this character to be good without being a superman. Yeah, he has weaknesses, but they're not glaring. He has strengths, but they're not overpowering.

I have changed some of the items, so please take another look. I'll be coming up with a background for him, and I'll post that.

I actually like it. The Character would fit in pretty well at our table.

Posted by: Makki Apr 15 2011, 03:47 PM

some comments:
-drop the olfactory booster, you already have a super surge nose.
-skills are fine, but drop the specs and buy them with your first karma, way cheaper. put these gained 14 BP into Reaction and one combat skill of your choice.
-for the fox theme. maybe change Mood Hair to Vestigial Tail, I'm not a zoologist, but I imagine foxes don't need it for balance. Get a Balance Receptor instead, or some claws or Keen-Eared.
-look, if you can drop some 'ware to 1 point of essence, most of it doesn't help you that much and can be purchased as handheld gear (Radar)
-maybe drop the R3 agent and invest in a better one later in the game.

otherwise I like it, however obvious surge and other RC stuff won't fit to every table.

Posted by: KCKitsune Apr 15 2011, 05:07 PM

QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 15 2011, 11:38 AM)

I actually like it. The Character would fit in pretty well at our table.

Thank you Tymeaus.

Oh, by the way, did you get a chance to look at those Psionics rules that I sent you? If so, then please let me know what you think.