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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ 5 Passes?
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 19 2011, 07:50 PM
The main book says that most people can't do over 4 even if they spend edge. Can anyone do it?
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 19 2011, 07:53 PM
YES...
Hackers
Technomancers
Riggers
Cyborgs
There you go...
Posted by: Beetle Apr 19 2011, 07:54 PM
Some gear/ware in Unwired can push you to five IP's in the Matrix. I've got the book out on loan to one of my players, so I can't reference the pages off hand.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 19 2011, 08:03 PM
You can't get 5 in meat, though, which is what I think OP meant? I'd be a little surprised by 6 matrix IPs, though… sounds like unorthodox rules combination. 
Posted by: hobgoblin Apr 19 2011, 08:18 PM
There was some attempts at applying biodrone implant to metahumans and have them rig their own body...
Posted by: ggodo Apr 19 2011, 08:22 PM
I. . ..
I just. . .
I just wish that Longbow never finds this.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Apr 19 2011, 08:26 PM
Hackers
Technomancers
Riggers
Cyborgs
There you go...
To expand on that briefly. There is 'ware and a commlink upgrade for the Rigger and Hacker that allow 5 Hot Sim passes. TM's can of course take overclocking to get to 5 VR passes.
Not too familiar with Cyborgs getting 5 passes, although I do not doubt the validity of the source.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Apr 19 2011, 08:32 PM
Cyborgs, and Riggers jumped in VR. Base 1 + VR 1 + Hot Sim 1 + Simsense Accelerator 1 + Simsense Booster 1
-k
Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 19 2011, 08:37 PM
Right, that's not meat. That's Matrix.
Posted by: hobgoblin Apr 19 2011, 08:38 PM
But in control of something physical.
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 19 2011, 08:40 PM
Thanks! I didn't really care if it was meat or not.
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 19 2011, 08:51 PM
I'm pretty sure the book explicitly says that you may only have up to five IPs. I wasn't aware of any other limits on IPs.
Okay, now I'm re-reading the book and wondering where I saw that, because everywhere I'm looking now says 4 IPs.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Apr 19 2011, 08:52 PM
It is 4 IPs, unless you are running specifically the combo I listed above. That is the only exception.
-k
Posted by: Socinus Apr 19 2011, 09:02 PM
There's the Mesh Reality echo for Technomancers.
Mesh Reality
Prerequisite: Multiprocessing
A technomancer who fine-tunes her understanding of multiprocessing with this echo can surrender her body to slip into a hyper-perceptive state with a Free Action. In this state, she can perceive both the real world (including augmented reality) and virtual reality simultaneously. This allows her to use her Matrix Initiative and Initiative Passes in meat space, though she cannot use more Initiative Passes on real-world actions than she usually would, based on her normal Initiative Passes. Remaining IPs must be spent on Matrix actions only. If engaged in physical combat and cybercombat simultaneously, she receives a –4 to all of her dice pools. This modifier can be reduced for cybercombat only by using the Macro echo.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 19 2011, 09:19 PM
That doesn't give any extra IPs. It does possibly increase their Init score (if their Matrix score is higher; it probably is).
Posted by: Minchandre Apr 19 2011, 09:36 PM
-k
Yeah, the...Simsense Booster, I think? explicitly says that it allows you to exceed 4 IPs.
Posted by: hobgoblin Apr 19 2011, 10:25 PM
never mind...
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 19 2011, 11:23 PM
Okay, now I'm re-reading the book and wondering where I saw that, because everywhere I'm looking now says 4 IPs.
Found it! Core Book -> Attributes -> special attributes -> page 68: "The maximum number of Initiative Passes a character can have is 5, but most character types can only ever achieve 4."
Page 145 (Initiative Passes) basically says: "You can't have over 4 IPs. Oh, you do? My bad. As long as you didn't get any from Edge."
Kinda dumb. They should reword that.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 19 2011, 11:33 PM
It's 4, except for the Simsense Booster. It could indeed be written better.
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 19 2011, 11:41 PM
additional extra Initiative Pass when operating in VR (for a maximum
of three Initiative Passes when operating in cold sim and four
Initiative Passes when operating in hot sim).
I don't see how the simsense booster makes the exception.
Then again, it does say it's an "additional extra".
Posted by: Minchandre Apr 19 2011, 11:46 PM
Then again, it does say it's an "additional extra".
Maybe it's the accelerator, then. One of them allows you to exceed 4.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Apr 19 2011, 11:53 PM
It's the Accelerator:
This state-of-the-art mod increases the speed at which simsense signals are transmitted between the commlink and a persona controlled via hot-sim VR. It increases a VR-using character’s Matrix Initiative Passes by 1. It does not boost Matrix Initiative in cold-sim VR or AR. It is compatible with simsense booster cyberware (so a hacker in hot sim with a simsense accelerator and simsense booster cyberware has 5 Initiative passes). Initiative Passes; this is an exception to the rule that normally limits IPs to 4).
Yes, that typo with the extra closing parenthesis is in the book.
-k
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 19 2011, 11:58 PM
There we go. Wow that's obscure.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 01:37 AM
How is that obscure?
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 20 2011, 01:54 AM
Many books, and over 20 ways to get more IPs spread throughout them. That's the only one that circumvents the 4 IP rule. In addition, I haven't read anything about hackers/technomancers yet (skipping over those parts until something brings me to them).
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 02:23 AM
And yet, there is only Two ways to get 5 IP's (Technomancer, or Hacking Ware)... But I get your point...
Posted by: Udoshi Apr 20 2011, 03:02 AM
Not too familiar with Cyborgs getting 5 passes, although I do not doubt the validity of the source.
Hacker/Riggers CAN get 5 passes on the matrix, but they can only spend 4 of them on meat actions because they need to use at least one complex action to control the car.
Cyborgs(they use matrix init), per augmentation, are exempt from that obligatory complex action, and so are the -only- archetype that can manage 5 passes meatside.
It may be theoretically possible to get 6 passes on the matrix: Using an accelerator/booster combo already nullifies the 4-pass rule, so we don't care about that anymore: So using Edge to boost yourself to 6 for a turn should work. An Adept with Rush(war!) should be able to do a similiar trick, as rush doesn't have a no-stacking clause like most IP boosting things, but soaking 12p afterwards isn't really worth it.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 20 2011, 03:11 AM
If they're confident about the crash test, they *can* forgo control, of course.
I feel like Edge specifically says you can't use it to go over 4, so that's a pretty rough loophole.
Posted by: Udoshi Apr 20 2011, 03:15 AM
I believe uncontrolled vehicles get a dice pool modifier to everything (i want to say -2), but, yeah, if you have a giant dice pool or NEED an extra action, its not that bad.
Come to think of it, for a habitual cold-sim rigger, popping over to hot mode and voluntarily giving up control is basically like turbo-mode. Twice the actions! twice the fun! +2 cancels out the -2! Oh god dumpshock, my brain.
Posted by: Medicineman Apr 20 2011, 05:22 AM
I feel like Edge specifically says you can't use it to go over 4, so that's a pretty rough loophole.
IIRC only 4 IPs are possible in Meatspace (Its a Hardcap)
They could use the 5th pass for a matrix action though
with 4 Dances in 1 Post
Medicineman
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 20 2011, 06:15 AM
They could use the 5th pass for a matrix action though
with 4 Dances in 1 Post
Medicineman
I'm pretty sure the hardcap is 5, based on page 68 of the core book. The section dedicated to Initiative Passes on p. 145 only says that most characters are limited to 4.
Posted by: Faraday Apr 20 2011, 06:47 AM
If it's just sitting there, you can play with an extra pass as a crazy, bullet-spewing turret.
Posted by: bluedao Apr 20 2011, 07:27 AM
Running Wild p92 the Cheetah has two base IP. When turned into a biodrone you can get this up to 5. There might be others, I haven't done a detailed read in a while.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 01:06 PM
They could use the 5th pass for a matrix action though
with 4 Dances in 1 Post
Medicineman
Well, Drone Actions are Matrix Actions, and yet, their effects occur in Meatspace. Same with Cyborgs.
So, Drone Riggers and Cyborgs actually do receive 5 Meat Actions, becuase they are controlled through the Matrix.
As for Not using an action to control the vehicel (Drone Riggers), they must make a Crash Test next pass. If they succeed, no bad results occur. Failure is a Crash.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 01:07 PM
At that point, though, it is a Drone.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 20 2011, 01:13 PM
Yeah, but that's just an error. Like most of Running Wild.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 02:06 PM
Heheheh... Wouldn't know. I do not have Running Wild either. Though I have glanced through it a time or two.
Posted by: Mäx Apr 20 2011, 02:54 PM
IIRC extra base IP:s don't stack with IP enchaments.
It maybe a little bit obscure, mostly because the mention about 5 IP:s was added in to the anniversary edition of the corebook for reasons unknown, even thought there's no real reson for it to be there, as those thinks that allow you to get the fifth pass allready have a mention about being an exception to the general rule of 4 max.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 03:06 PM
Why wouldn't they?
Posted by: Mäx Apr 20 2011, 03:16 PM
Because for character options that get them it says so and i though i saw somethink similar for critter, but can't find it so maybe i remembered wrong.
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 20 2011, 03:35 PM
Agreed.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 04:01 PM
I have never seen anything from Character options stating that, because no character Metatype/Variant has more than a single pass. Maybe that is in Running Wild?
Posted by: streetangelj Apr 20 2011, 04:26 PM
I'm pretty sure you can still combine drugs (Cram, Jazz, Kamikaze) with your existing 4 IPs if you want to make a literal speed freak. I've never seen a rule that specifically prevents this...
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 05:07 PM
Except that Drugs do not take you above 4 IP.
Posted by: Mäx Apr 20 2011, 06:08 PM
Banshee's and few other infected options have +1IP.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 06:27 PM
Oooh, Cool. Nice to know. Of course, we do not have any infected PC's, nor are they allowed, so it will never be a problem.
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 20 2011, 07:33 PM
Allowed in your campaign, or in general? I heard Yerameyahu say the same thing, but I still don't know where it says you can't.
*edit as of 12:57 PM
D'oh! I read that as cyberzombies and cyborgs. I was kind of rushed. Sorry.
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 20 2011, 07:54 PM
They mean in their campaign. There's no general restriction against it, else huge chunks of RC would be pointless.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 07:54 PM
In our campaign. It is a PC playable race after all. We just do not use them. Infected become NPC's or Ghoul chow, depending upon the character involved.
Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 20 2011, 07:56 PM
Yerameyahu didn't say anything about Infected, actually.
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 20 2011, 07:59 PM
Yeah, my bad. I just fixed it. Probably while you were reading it.
Switch to HTML 5 dumpshock!
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 20 2011, 08:16 PM
How would that help?
Posted by: longbowrocks Apr 20 2011, 08:26 PM
New functionality in the <meta> tag. Then again, I'm no web developer, so maybe there are ways using html 4.0.
Posted by: Ascalaphus Apr 20 2011, 10:06 PM
I've been thinking about allowing drugs to boost IP beyond augmentations/powers/spells. Mostly because then drugs would still be singing their siren song to those PCs.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 20 2011, 10:23 PM
This is true... makes them attractive again...
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