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Posted by: Tashiro Apr 21 2011, 05:16 AM

I remember a time when shamans had a 'mask', the manifestation of their totem when they cast a spell. I'm curious if that still exists, or can all mages now simply cast a spell without any motion, gestures, or signs of what they're doing. My wife mentions that in the early novels, the shamanic mask appeared when the shaman did major / important magic.

I also noticed 'exclusive spells' have been taken out as well, I think.

Posted by: Fortinbras Apr 21 2011, 05:40 AM

Shamanic Masks are described on page 179 of SR4a.
They don't go into terrific detail, but I maintain that anyone with a mentor spirit has one.

Posted by: phlapjack77 Apr 21 2011, 05:45 AM

Still exists, perhaps in a slightly different form from earlier editions. It seems that it's entirely up to the player / GM if there will be a shamanic mask.

SR4A, p181
"Many shamans find that this totem expresses itself through them when they use magical skills, often changing their appearance slightly to suggest their totem animal . This phenomenon is called a shamanic mask (see Noticing Magic, p. 179). A player can choose whether or not this effect is apparent for her character."

Noticing magic: SR4A, p 179
"Magicians of some traditions display a more visible change when practicing magic known as the shamanic mask. The shamanic mask typically changes the magician’s features temporarily to display characteristics appropriate to her mentor spirit or tradition—an eagle shaman, for example, might seem to have feathers or beaklike features while spellcasting or summoning."
...
"More powerful magic is easier to spot with the gathered mana normally appearing as a disturbance or glowing aura in the air around the caster. The gamemaster should apply additional modifiers as appropriate, or if the perceiver is Awakened themselves (+2 dice), astrally perceiving (+2 dice), or if a shamanic mask is evident (+2 dice)."

*edit* I don't remember what "exclusive spells" are, but my vague recollection makes me think they're similar to fetish'ed spells? Or maybe geas'ed spells?

Posted by: Tashiro Apr 21 2011, 05:57 AM

It was a spell which required a focus to even work. It helped cut back on the drain, if I remember correctly, allowing you to throw around spells with a greater force. There was a spell focus spell, and then an exclusive spell focus. Hmm, I'll need to look up fetished spells again, that rings a bell, but I don't think it was what I was looking for.

Posted by: Fortinbras Apr 21 2011, 05:58 AM

Limited Spells, page 182 of SR4a.
Fetishes are still alive and well.

Posted by: Summerstorm Apr 21 2011, 06:50 AM

Hm.... wasn't exclusive like that:

You can't do any other magical activity while doing an exclusive spell/activity.

Which meant pretty much: no sustaining when you cast it. (Also if i remember right changing planes was exclusive as well, so you couldn't take sustained spell with you just like that)

Posted by: Medicineman Apr 21 2011, 08:06 AM

I think that these are old SR3 Rules ?!
(at least Planar Change is no exclusive Action anymore ! )

with an older Dance
Medicineman

Posted by: Rasumichin Apr 21 2011, 05:55 PM

SR4A only mentions fetishes under limited spells (p.182). Same for SR4. Seems that exclusive spells do not exist anymore.
Maybe i missed something in Street Magic or Digital Grimoire, though.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Apr 21 2011, 06:08 PM

Exclusive Spells do not exist any longer. Magic has become stronger. The mana field is strengthening.

Posted by: Tashiro Apr 21 2011, 06:34 PM

Ah, okay, so I wasn't imagining things. Though one thing that did come to mind was that I still think magic drain is too low in most cases.

Posted by: Sixgun_Sage Apr 21 2011, 07:39 PM

Tymeaus brings up a valid point, as the metaplot keeps progressing we have seen magic grow stronger, it makes me really worried further iterations of the game will basically be Magicrun. I hope they atleast make more powerful magics reliant on advanced metamagics in the future...

Posted by: sabs Apr 21 2011, 08:11 PM

Or Technology needs to keep pace.

Posted by: Rasumichin Apr 21 2011, 08:40 PM

I'd rather see technology gaining more of a foothold and advancing faster than magic.
If you want to balance sams and hackers against slightly more powerful mages, you could offer decidedly more powerful, cheaply available cyberware.

Posted by: sabs Apr 21 2011, 08:49 PM

Need to resist the urge to make cyber/bio and magic more compatible. Many of the balance issues that lead to Magic Run, are usually mage/mystic adepts with 1 or 2 essence points of cyber

Posted by: Rasumichin Apr 21 2011, 08:53 PM

This could be counteracted if the best ware would be a combination of various systems with a high Essence cost (such as receiving additional benefits when you combine a MBW, balance-enhancing ware and a specific form of Muscle Replacement), or if more invasive implants would have higher benefits in the first place.

Posted by: phlapjack77 Apr 22 2011, 01:01 AM

My thoughts on the magic-creep, and cyberadepts, is that they wouldn't be a problem if the "old" rules still applied, where Magic loss was double Essence loss. Not sure why that rule got left out of this edition.

Posted by: Rasumichin Apr 22 2011, 01:02 AM

That rule never applied to anyone except eagle shamans, though.

Posted by: phlapjack77 Apr 22 2011, 01:04 AM

Really? My memory must be going. I swear it was a rule in the 1st/2nd editions, for all Magically-active chars. Ah, well..

Posted by: Bigity Apr 22 2011, 02:47 AM

Well, later on it was tacked onto some other totems as well.

Posted by: Medicineman Apr 22 2011, 05:15 AM

Unicorn IIRC
The "Double Essence Loss "was Kind of a special Rule only for the Eagle Schaman(and Unicorns )

with a .... kinda special Dance
Medicineman

Posted by: phlapjack77 Apr 22 2011, 05:18 AM

Well...well...<sputtering> it SHOULD be a rule, then!!



Was there any rule, where operating in cyberspace was harder for mages, giving headaches or something? Maybe it was in a novel or something, I can't shake this memory...

Posted by: Medicineman Apr 22 2011, 05:23 AM

Outer Space Kills Mages if they do any Magic
Its Kind of a Background count of 12 (or something) because it has absolutely no Gajasphere

He who dances in Silence
(Because in Space no one can hear You Scream)
Medicineman

Posted by: DMiller Apr 22 2011, 05:24 AM

I remember a +2 to TN for Mages in cyberspace due to it being so differnet from real/astral and being hard for the brain to switch between the realities.

-D

Posted by: phlapjack77 Apr 22 2011, 05:28 AM

thanks - I swore there was some kind of penalty for magic / technology interaction...glad I'm not (totally) crazy

Posted by: Tashiro Apr 22 2011, 05:33 AM

If I remember from first edition, you added your magic rating to your TNs when in Cyberspace -- the more touched with magic you were, the harder it became. This might have carried into second edition as well. It's why Twist walked with a limp when he was decking.

Posted by: Medicineman Apr 22 2011, 05:37 AM

in SR3 it was a mere TN+1 (IIRC) and there is no Penalty in SR4A anymore

HokaHow
Medicineman

Posted by: Irion Apr 23 2011, 12:58 PM

Like I said often if you handle essence loss intelligent, there is no problem. (And you also get rid of the stupid extra rule for vampires. Who basicly get ware without magic loss. Fucking up the hole system.)
Magic = bought magic - (6+current essence) round down.
Cost of getting a new magic point: (bought magic +1)*5.
And you have no more Problem with cybermages or cyberadapts.
A cyberadept with 2 points of cyber and magic 7 would have paid (8+9)*5= 85 Points of Karma. Thats one skill group to 5 for a mundan. (I guess thats fair)

And the same rule may be applied to "suckers".
And even better: You can play freely with essence loss through injuries, because the mage or adept is able to get the essence back and so his old magic attribute. (So no need to get 0.8 points of ware to prevent the loss of a precious Magic point.)

Posted by: Snow_Fox Apr 24 2011, 03:46 PM

The high tech nature of corp society works as a check to mages on runs but street meat samuri have to be more careful.

Posted by: Sixgun_Sage Apr 25 2011, 02:50 PM

I guess I'm just naturally someone that prepares for the worst, nosferatu make me twitch hard enough in the current edition.