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Posted by: Socinus Apr 21 2011, 06:27 PM

Im curious if there are any rules regarding taking a group of drones and melding them together into a swarm so they perform better or can cooperate?

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 21 2011, 06:55 PM

You can let them use a tacnet together (with the right sensors), or send them the same commands as a single action.

Posted by: sabs Apr 21 2011, 06:56 PM

just remember, when 30 drones, slaved together, with SnS ammo shoot the poor security guard you're trying to knock unconcious... he's gonna die

Posted by: BishopMcQ Apr 21 2011, 10:32 PM

If you are using microdrones, you could apply the Swarm rules from Running Wild with a few changes.

Posted by: Socinus Apr 22 2011, 12:10 AM

I was thinking a pack of Medium flying drones with machine guns attached.

Posted by: Epicedion Apr 22 2011, 06:24 AM

That's less a "swarm" and more an "army."

Posted by: CanRay Apr 22 2011, 06:29 AM

Depending on the size, more like a Fire Unit or Platoon than an Army.

I doubt a Company could be used without some major computing power and command issues...

Posted by: phlapjack77 Apr 22 2011, 06:30 AM

I think what BishopMcQ said still could apply - this would be a "Mischief" as opposed to a "Swarm", as per Running Wild...

Posted by: Socinus Apr 22 2011, 07:01 AM

I dont know if I would consider four or five Ford LEBD-1's an army, but I dont know any rules or software that would assist a group of drones in working together.

Posted by: Seerow Apr 22 2011, 07:35 AM

Like someone else already said, TacNet is pretty much the go-to for this. With 5 of them you can get up to 3 bonus dice on pretty much everything combat, as long as they have at least 6 different sensor types each (incidentally exactly what a medium drone comes with standard). Bump it up to 6 and you can get the cap of 4, but they need 8 sensors (which means having to get the improved sensor array upgrade for each drone, eating up upgrade capacity)

Posted by: Socinus Apr 22 2011, 08:28 AM

I can see how Tac-Net would come in handy, but just...doesnt seem like enough.

I was thinking something like this:

TACPAC Software
Tactical Persistant Automated Collaboration Software is an advanced version of the TacSoft software designed to enable drones to work together more effectively. The software is installed on a drone (taking one capacity unit) and any drone with the unit becomes part of the group. All members of the swarm gain access to the other's sensor feeds and all are commanded as one unit; they have the same initiative, move in a group, and react as a single entity. All drones in the swarm must have at least one sensor channel to contribute and must have a System rating of at least 3. A minimum of 2 drones must be present and installed with the TACPAC software to gain benefit from it.

A pair of drones receives a +1 bonus for actions while part of the swarm (similar to TacSoft). For every participant equipped with the TACPAC software who is part of the swarm, the bonus increases by 1. The drones communicate with each other wirelessly, however this link can be upgraded to a different type of link (laser, microwave, hardwire, etc etc) for an extra 500.

The controlling rigger can add or remove drones from the swarm to act independently, but this takes a Complex action.

Posted by: Dakka Dakka Apr 22 2011, 10:35 AM

Does no one have a problem with the fact that you can only command all drones or one? Am I missing something? For a swarm or army, being able to group individual drones is pretty much necessary IMHO.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 22 2011, 01:31 PM

You can control one drone, or any number with the same command. That second one is not 'all', it's just anything from 2 to 'all'. You can also control multiple drones/groups with your multiple actions; even a basic rigger gets 3 IPs.

Socinus, how's that different from tacnet software, besides giving a bigger bonus for fewer sensors?

Posted by: sabs Apr 22 2011, 02:11 PM

You can also use upgraded pilot programs with fuzzy logic upgrades, and good software.
Then you can actually use free actions to give drones commands, and they use their pilot+program to do the actions.

Posted by: CanRay Apr 22 2011, 02:26 PM

I though a group of Ford LEBD-1s was a "Murder" of them. Learn something new every day.

As for commanding all the drones with a single command, pretty easy, really. "Shoot the target that's being hit by the designator laser.", done. You could probably do that today with armed UAVs.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 22 2011, 02:31 PM

It depends if they're controlled by police or shadowrunners.

Posted by: CanRay Apr 22 2011, 02:34 PM

Yera, morally speaking, what's the difference other than one side having a badge?

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 22 2011, 02:42 PM

I don't understand the question. Regardless, it's clearly a 'Mischief' for runner-controlled, and a 'Murder' for police-controlled.

Posted by: CanRay Apr 22 2011, 02:57 PM

Is there any difference between the Police in Shadowrun, and Shadowrunners themselves? They sell themselves to the highest bidder and try to get the best contracts and reputations possible to get bigger and better deals...

And shoot people in the face for money. Or "Kidnap" people for money (Although the police call it "Arresting".). And so on... Just one has legitimacy and the other doesn't.

It harkens back to the old joke about "The Police is just the world's largest Street Gang.".

Although I will agree on the naming conventions of Drone Swarms.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 22 2011, 05:15 PM

It's a joke, I meant 'what're morals?'

Posted by: Xahn Borealis Apr 22 2011, 05:17 PM

We don't have those. Too much encumbrance, you know?

Posted by: Modular Man Apr 22 2011, 10:47 PM

Running a tacnet rating four on LEBD-1s is rather easy: Just pack in at least two vision enhancements on one of their cameras, those count as extra sensor channels, too. No need for a houserule in my opinion.

Posted by: Whipstitch Apr 22 2011, 10:59 PM

As a GM, I've done this a few times. One time it took only a half dozen Ferrets. I like to call it the RC Rally of Doom.

Posted by: CanRay Apr 22 2011, 11:00 PM

You know, with TacNets, This Old Drone just became that much more dangerous.

Posted by: Whipstitch Apr 22 2011, 11:06 PM

Another thing to keep in mind with swarms: They don't necessarily need many bonuses if you've got enough attacks available to start wiping out their Defense pool.

Posted by: Udoshi Apr 23 2011, 04:58 AM

I played with this concept once or twice. Turns out Dragonflies are rather excellent in small swarms.

Its hella cheap to personalize grip their build-in weapons for the drones pilot, and Optimize(commlink mod) the hardware for their Targeting Autosoft program. Run them on a cheap tacnet(lets say 2), and sic them all on the same target for the Friends In Melee Bonus(3 more dice) and those little drones start to look a LOT more dangerous - especially if they have instructions to use +4dv/-4dice Called Shots.


As for actaully controlling swarms, there's tons of better ways to manage lots of drones than by using Issue Commands. For example, having your drones set to engage marked/flagged targets, and then using free action Changed Linked Device Mode to mark things as hostile on the tacnet.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 23 2011, 05:02 AM

… Personalized Grip on their built-in claws? Shameless. I wouldn't give them Friends in Melee either, tiny little things. I'm not sure if 'effective if you cheat like crazy' is the best endorsement of the swarm concept.

Posted by: Udoshi Apr 23 2011, 05:14 AM

Personalized grip is a wonderful mod. Its good on guns, swords, clubs, anything really. in this case, it actallly has a downside - its customized for the drone, not the rigger. If its actually being controlled by a human, they don't get the bonus.

This is far from cheating. These drones happen to fight in melee, which means they follow all the normal rules. Ganging up on an opponent might not be fighting fair, but its fighting smart. Its not like drones are some special random edge casse that gets to randomly ignore rules because it happens to be effective.

It get worse if you have a spotter drone or two, making sensor targeting tests through the tacnet for the other drones doing the actual shooting.

Posted by: Mäx Apr 23 2011, 09:50 AM

Trying to get personalised grip for drones in-built melee weapon is pretty much the definition of muchkin and i doupt there many GM:s who would allow it anymore then getting that mod for hardliner gloves or cyber spurs.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Apr 23 2011, 01:16 PM

Imma get Personalized Grip for me meat punching hands.

But yeah, seriously, you need a "grip" to have Personalized Grip.

Udoshi, you quoted me in your sig. This is, in fact, one of those "grey areas or questionable abuse of loopholes".




-k