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Posted by: Aria May 20 2011, 06:26 PM

Do these count against the potential reaction penalty for layers of armour? I have always assumed not but...?!?

Do milspec helmets get the same treatment?

Thanks!

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 20 2011, 06:30 PM

The short answer is 'it depends'. There are at least 3 or so armor encumbrance rules options.

The basic one is that all armor counts, so yes. (SR4A p161) Penalties start when the total B and/or I exceeds Body*2. (Note that stacking doesn't mean add everything *for the purposes of damage resistance*; only the highest B or I counts, while everything counts to encumbrance.)

Arsenal (p44) provides the option of 'no encumbrance for any single armor item'; e.g., one armor suit. The player can lose this grace by doing more stacking/accessorizing; IMO, suit+helmet is fine, but suit+helmet+PPP+shield, etc. is not.

A second Arsenal option is for Milspec armor to use Body*3 as the limit. For me, this never comes up.

Posted by: Fatum May 20 2011, 08:15 PM

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 20 2011, 10:30 PM)

The short answer is 'it depends'. There are at least 3 or so armor encumbrance rules options.

The basic one is that all armor counts, so yes. (SR4A p161) Penalties start when the total B and/or I exceeds Body*2. (Note that stacking doesn't mean add everything *for the purposes of damage resistance*; only the highest B or I counts, while everything counts to encumbrance.)

Arsenal (p44) provides the option of 'no encumbrance for any single armor item'; e.g., one armor suit. The player can lose this grace by doing more stacking/accessorizing; IMO, suit+helmet is fine, but suit+helmet+PPP+shield, etc. is not.

A second Arsenal option is for Milspec armor to use Body*3 as the limit. For me, this never comes up.

That second option is in fact a suggested optional rule. RAW says if your total B or I exceeds Body x2 (x3 for milspec), you're encumbered. How you got there - were those shields, PPP, helmets or what - doesn't matter.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 20 2011, 08:18 PM

I think that's exactly what I said. That's what 'option' means.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 20 2011, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 20 2011, 01:18 PM)

I think that's exactly what I said.

That's what 'option' means.

Heh...

Posted by: Fatum May 20 2011, 09:13 PM

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 21 2011, 12:18 AM)

I think that's exactly what I said.

That's what 'option' means.

The first and the third "options" are not optional at all, they are default rules.

Posted by: Daishi May 20 2011, 09:21 PM

QUOTE (Fatum @ May 20 2011, 02:13 PM)

The first and the third "options" are not optional at all, they are default rules.

A variant of the third can be an option if you allow tailored/custom-fit armour to also use Bod x 3 as the limit. (Also on Arsenal p. 44)

Posted by: Mäx May 20 2011, 09:36 PM

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 20 2011, 09:30 PM)

(Note that stacking doesn't mean add everything *for the purposes of damage resistance*; only the highest B or I counts, while everything counts to encumbrance.)

Just to make sure you dont confuse the OP:
Thinks that are listed as +somethink add that value to your existing armor and don't count as separate armor.
The "only highest of B or I counts for armor, but all count for encumbrance" rule only comes into effect if your wearing 2(or more) actual armors, for example:
If your wearing Body Armor Bag 6/2 and a Chain Mail Shirt 2/7, you have armor 6/7 but for encumbrance it counts as 8/9.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 21 2011, 01:07 AM

I think you'll find that everything in Arsenal there is under a general 'this is all optional' disclaimer.

Posted by: CanRay May 21 2011, 02:49 AM

Having worn a motorcycle helmet, and having shopped around for a few military ones (Army surplus), I can tell you the damned things are annoying as hell and a lot heavier and more cumbersome than most people think. Especially on the neck, which already supports a pretty heavy load.

Posted by: Aria May 21 2011, 02:58 PM

Thanks guys!

Posted by: Fatum May 21 2011, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (CanRay @ May 21 2011, 06:49 AM)