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Posted by: longbowrocks May 28 2011, 06:19 AM

Let me just start with this: a lot of this character will be filled out (such as unregistered programs, and a fake SIN) after chargen. I couldn't possibly get it all in at chargen, and I don't want to buy anything that I would have to buy at a higher rating later.
Also, I was reluctant to post this because people are going to give advice, and I'm going to end up taking it if it's good, which will make me feel like I was asking for advice.

Without further ado, I introduce John Smith; a caucasian male between 20 and 30 years of age.
BOD 1
AGI 1
REA 1
STR 1
CHA 2
INT 5
LOG 5
WIL 5
EDG 7

Qualities:
Chatty (10BP after errata)
Analytical Mind (5BP)
Erased 24hrs (10BP)
More than Metahuman (5BP)

Negative Qualities:
Allergy common mild Pollen (-10BP)
Prejudiced specific biased Emerged (-5BP)
Prejudiced specific outspoken Awakened (-10BP)
Scorched (-10BP)

Skills:
4 Cracking
4 Electronics
1 Con (+2 Fast Talk)
4 Disguise
1 First Aid
6 Gunnery (+2 Ballistic)
4 Medicine
3 Negotiation

Cyberware:
Simsense Booster (second hand)
Encephalon 2 (second hand)

Bioware/Geneware:
Symbiotes (rating 2, second hand)
Enhanced Protein PuSHeD

Lifestyle:
High (one of my drones, which people should believe to be a cyborg)
Middle (me)

Gear:
Singualrity Battle Buddy Basic (will upgrade as soon as I get the chance, but for now my programs will run at R5)
Nanopaste Disguise (Large)
4 Laes cigarettes
Latex face mask

R Program
6 Analyze
6 Armor
6 Attack
6 Biofeedback Filter
6 Blackout
6 Browse
6 Command
6 Corrupt
3 Data Bomb
3 Decrypt
3 Defuse
6 Disarm
3 ECCM
6 Edit
6 Encrypt
6 Exploit
6 Firewall
3 Medic
6 Nuke
6 Purge
6 Reality Filter
6 Scan
3 Sniffer
6 Spoof
6 Stealth
6 System
3 Track

Vehicle:
Rover 2068
+Ram Plate

Drones:
Bust-A-Move
Evo Orderly
Ford LEBD-1
+Armor, Normal, R9
Steel Lynx
+inherent weapon turret
++Ares Desert Strike
+++High Power Chambering
+++Smartgun System, External
+++Improved Range Finder
+50 High-Power Rounds
+Armor, Normal, R12
+Improved Sensor Array
+Modular Electronics
+Vehicle sensor array
++Ultrawideband Radar R4
++Cyberware Scanner R6
++Laser Microphone R6
++Radio Signal Scanner R6
++Olfactory Sensor R6
++Radar R6


Finally, drones wishlist:
Renraku Stormcloud (SR4 350); Modified GMC Chariot (AR 119); Ferret RPD-1X (AR 118); Knight Errant P4 (AR 119)

That about covers it.

Posted by: Summerstorm May 28 2011, 06:45 AM

Whenever a character sheet is going 1,1,1,1,9,9,9,9 or like that, a fairy dies.

I myself as a gm would smack you up the head with your sheet for that. I normaly just ask the player: How did he survive to this age. What did he do? I mean, REALLY. Never moved his body, played with some kids, never fought off any diseases, moves less than 5 minutes a day (gets up, gets into the drone... closes the cocoon and that's that?)?

Edge 7?....... REALLY? And with the skills. No infiltration, no athletics (of course not, ok), nothing but maximized Gunnery (where did he learn that at global high value without being TRAINED as a back-up fighter and standard military skillsets?).

The whole concept doesn't feel right. (It feels like blatant one-trick pony min-maxing with no rhyme or reason). I wouldn't let this into my game, sorry.

Posted by: ravensoracle May 28 2011, 06:53 AM

With those stats, you might as well just make an AI.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 28 2011, 07:00 AM

Definitely min-maxing. My only reason? Stay under the radar and kill anything dubbed "special".

Posted by: longbowrocks May 28 2011, 07:02 AM

I considered it. I didn't give it too much thought though. I think I was more worried about the binary nature of an AI's existence. It's either going to live forever, or someone will find its home node and destroy it while it defrags.

Posted by: ravensoracle May 28 2011, 07:05 AM

Also with those stats, Id probably say Parapalegic would be the best neg quality for you. It's the best explanation of what you have.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 28 2011, 07:09 AM

I want to avoid being noticed. Parapalegic could hurt my chances.

Also, what's wrong with EDGE 7? The other possible reason I can think of for the higher cap is to allow you to softmax at a normal char's hardmax.

Posted by: ravensoracle May 28 2011, 08:23 AM

All your physical stats at 1 should be very noticeable anyways. You are about as healthy as someone completely bedridden.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 28 2011, 12:53 PM

Sorry, Longbowrocks, but I have to agree with Summerstorm here...

I have a nice hefty book for the smacking, as well...

Posted by: KarmaInferno May 28 2011, 12:59 PM

You didn't create a character here, dude.

You created a collection of stats.




-k

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 28 2011, 01:04 PM

Who is surprised? My favorite is Gunnery 6 (Ballistic).

Just make everything 2-3 instead. It's not like you need those stats.

Posted by: baronspam May 28 2011, 01:19 PM

All RP issues aside, you will need that 7 edge becuase you will be burning it left and right to keep the character alive. There will be times when you have to get out of the van, its inevitable. There will be a hacking job where the paydata is in cold storage, and you have go there in the meat to get it. There will be that run that takes place in the orc underground, and you can't get the vehicle down there. There will be the meet and greet with the client and there will be an ambush. A cubscout with a monkey wrench can make you his bitch in a street fight. You just built a nice NPC, the physically crippled spider who sits in his room and runs the base secuirty, but this guy is so limited I don't see you surviving the shadows.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 28 2011, 02:21 PM

Bingo.


My party is never going to see me. If somebody finds out who I am, I don't want to play this character nearly as much, because there will then be some conceivable way for mages to get a picture of me, which they can turn into a link for rituals. If anyone encounters me on the street by chance, I don't know what I would do since I don't want to cause a commotion. I might fast talk my way out of trouble, or I if I didn't care anymore I might just use my clockwork drones and walk by the crispy villain.

Posted by: suoq May 28 2011, 02:40 PM

And you're the face...

And you're prejudiced against Emerged and Awakened, so I"m betting there's a couple people on the team you wouldn't mind seeing dead.

Honestly, I don't see how people play characters like these at the table with everyone else. They seem to exist separately from the team. I don't see how they're supposed to work with the team. The more people are separate from everyone else, the more often random boredom and distractions enter the game as people art looking for something to do while the GM is focused on a single individual.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 28 2011, 02:52 PM

Now we're getting somewhere.

I took chatty. I'll talk through my drones with a voice modulator, but I wouldn't show my face. That would be bad.

I'll try not to kill my teammates. Most of my passion will be directed towards a random mage I work on killing between missions. I'll try to keep that to an abstract single roll after every session, so I don't take up everyone else's time (i.e. data search for info on my target, or single contact about him letting me remodel his house).

Ugh, I know what you mean. My bow troll had days where he didn't do anything, so I ended up wistlessly watching my team to face work and hacking. Hopefully I'll do better now that I can participate in combat, social, and technical skills.

As for the cold storage, there's got to be a number on that signal reduction, and I eventually pan to have my mutual signal range at about 1/2 the globe when absolutely necessary. I'd probably just proxy through the underground wired network, or have repeater drones though.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 28 2011, 03:13 PM

Kind of hard to have 1/2 Global Mutual Signal Range when said Cold Storgage Facilty has no signal that penetrates outside of the walls, and no Wired access outside of the facility at all.

Posted by: ggodo May 28 2011, 04:20 PM

This is more min-maxed than I was expecting. The fun part is the orderly's crotch based off switch. One swift kick to the balls and down he goes. Plus, people are going to love getting you across borders.

Posted by: PoliteMan May 28 2011, 05:10 PM

I think I'm missing something here. A key part of your plan is to pretend to be a cyborg, throwing any would-be pursuers off your trail. Let me list a few problems with that.

#1. Not one of the drones you have is even vaguely humanoid. This might work with your SR buddies but...
#2 You've rented a high class apartment/house for the "fake you". At this point, pretending to be an escaped cyborg in the body of, say, a drone tank will raise eyebrows amongst your neighbors.
#3 High and Medium lifestyles require SINs
#4 Neither your nor your "drone" you have either a real or fake sin. In fact, you have no ID, fake or real, of any kind.

Also, at some point your GM is going to have corps/cops/mafia run a trace on you, or TI, or something and you have no defenses on your drones or home node to prevent serious hacking. This will end poorly and your GM will laugh at you.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 28 2011, 05:13 PM

Yeah Ggodo, Just disallow the character and have him move on...

Posted by: Fortinbras May 28 2011, 05:14 PM

That many drones and no Control Rig?

Also, what happens of the group takes a job that needs to hack something offline, like a nexi stored inside a faraday cage. What will your "I have the ring of invisibility! You Can't See Me!" hacker plan on doing then?

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 28 2011, 05:59 PM

He will Faint from Stage Fright?

Posted by: baronspam May 28 2011, 06:38 PM

but thats the problem. there will be times that the group is doing something where you *can't* just phone it in via the net. It will come up. Corps aren't dumb. If you had something really really valuable on a computer, with the state of hackers being what is it, would you put in on your LAN or would you put it in a system with no access to the outside world? Are you just going to sit there and eat cheetos during those game sessions or are you going to insist that your GM write every single story in a way that accomidates your character never having to go hands on? Neither seems like a reasonable solution, so the character probably is not a reasonable choice.

Posted by: Irion May 28 2011, 06:52 PM

@Summerstorm

Oh, thats easy. One severe illness and strait there you go.
(Oh, and you do not need lasting effects. Coma + severe fiver and there you go. Starving in about 2 weeks from 100 to 60 kg is not a bid deal that way.)

Posted by: redwulf25 May 28 2011, 07:10 PM

I'd buy the physical stats if the character had the paraplegic (or better yet quadriplegic) flaw. For someone who's not supposed to be completely crippled I'd expect a minimum of 2 in their physical stats.

Posted by: Irion May 28 2011, 07:31 PM

Which would leave you with 40BP less. (Thats 10% if your total BP)
You can either cut down on attributes or you can cut down on skills and resources.
Both is possible.

That is why I like Karmagen. Four attributes from one to two just costs 40 Karma, which is about 5% of your total Karma.
But increasing four attributes from 4 to 5 costs 100 Karma which is 13% of your total Karma.
(You might want to cut Karma to 650 and hand out free Knoledge skills like in BP)

Posted by: Magus May 28 2011, 08:27 PM

Wow Longbow just Wow!
It is as it was said by everyone. You will not like the results that occur when you do hit Wi Fi inhibitors and it is everywhere just like Wards are for the Awakened. Plus Border Crossing is gonna be a bitch. Where did you plan on hiding? You cannot even drive any of your drones. You do not have the Pilot skills. You are kinda stuck in Default mode which is your Reaction to even Rig your drones you are hiding in. Forget doing any type of running or evasion. One firefight and your drone go BOOM!

Posted by: Headshot_Joe May 28 2011, 09:41 PM

Completely off topic, but "Hacker Rigger Face" sounds like a very uneducated Troll's best insult for anybody who can use a computer...

As far as the character goes... I like the idea of the "behind the scenes" type hacker, but they almost never seem feasible in the long run. Had a guy like that in the last game I played. GM had him out of his van by the third session, and though he weaseled his way back in, he ended up running 3/4 of the two year campaign half a world away from his beloved ride. Weird thing was, he was a dwarf and took 5 body at Chargen, tied for second highest in the group with my Russian Ork Sniper/CQC Expert behind the Troll Tank/Anal Violation Enthusiast. Even had decent strength and took up a few weapon skills later, wound up making a decent battle Rigger, relying on his drones to provide cover for the group as we moved about.

So I guess my advice is to go for it with all your heart, but be prepared for the inevitable change of status quo that will put you into an "in-the-flesh" run.

Posted by: Sephiroth May 29 2011, 04:09 AM

Son, I am disappoint.

Also, your lifestyle logic is flawed. Cyborgs are about as commonly known of in 2072 society as the Immortal Elves; that is to say, they are not commonly known about AT ALL. If you want people to believe that your drone is a cyborg, then you'd better be prepared for the corporate extraction team that comes smashing down your door within a day or two.


Has this reminded anyone else of pattyhulez, if only briefly and slightly? Or am I just going crazy?

Posted by: baronspam May 29 2011, 06:00 AM

Maybe someone else said this somewhere else in the thread, but i wanted to put it down just for the record.

If you consider this guy a rigger/drone character you have built the worst one in the history of the game.

YOU HAVE NO PILOTING SKILLS. You also have a reaction of 1, meaning on the piloting skills that you can default on you default to zero, count them, zero dice. You might get something to follow grid guide, but you basically have no chance whatsoever to do anything with a vehicle that actually requires a roll. You can't pilot flying drones at all becuase you can't default on that skill. And even if you could, you would default at zero dice again.

That gunnery skill you put 6 levels plus a specialization, it links to your agility, which is a whopping 1. You may have incredible gunnery training, but your native skill at aiming is so damn bad that you come out about where a mid range gunner would. Certainly not 'runner good, not anywhere near elite.

This guy is a decent hacker and a cripple and a nut, thats about it. Its going to be hard for him to get steady work with a team because the only thing he can really do is hack, and he cant do that in the flesh when needed. The guy would make a great spider as long as someone else was running the drones, but thats honestly about it.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 29 2011, 06:12 AM

Presumably, his plan is to use Remote Control (Command) rigging. Which trades DP for having to use Complex Actions, but you can certainly shoot well enough. And you might as well use FA then. He does still need Pilot Ground (Specialized to Remote Control, natch).

Posted by: baronspam May 29 2011, 06:26 AM

I am still getting some of the more advanced/optional rules down for 4th ed. Do you mean that instead of going VR and piloting he is just going to subscribe the drones to his comlink and give them commands, and let their piloting programs fly/drive them? Makes sense, but what makes him any better at being a rigger then than anyone else on the street? Other than the gunnery skill? And considering he plans to do all of this from his secret base far from the action, isn't he buggered if they hit some decent electronic warfare or they get in a building that has wireless signal blocked to the outside world?

Posted by: KarmaInferno May 29 2011, 06:32 AM

Neither Hacking nor Rigging use the character's Attributes at all except for Initiative rolls.

Hacking uses Skill + Program.

AR Remote Control rigging mode uses Skill + Command (or Skill + Sensor Rating).

VR Jumped In rigging mode uses Skill + Response (or Skill + Sensor Rating).




-k

Posted by: Aerospider May 29 2011, 07:18 AM

Another glaring omission - a face with no Etiquette skill (and a Charisma of 2 to boot) is not a face. Assuming he doesn't piss off the Johnson to the point of retracting the job offer and deleting the whole team from his virtual roladex, the first guy with whom he makes enquiries might sooner kill him than give him directions.

One of my players has gone for a similar concept - he's an AI living in the hub node of an old people's home and at any given time is pretending to be one of the residents by means of having them doped up and sat in his transys steed. The concept is ludicrous and flawed and I allowed it for humour and curiosity more than anything else, but it's still a damn sight better and more playable. Above all it's interesting, which this guy really isn't.

Advice? Start again. Forget munckinnery, ask your GM what stats and gear your concept needs at a bare minimum and then keep tweaking your concept until said GM can, with a straight face, say your character will still be appreciated by his team mates after the first attempt at a run.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 07:42 AM

I'll point out that no one in our group wants to play a hacker, face, or rigger. If I didn't do this, we would have 3 street sammies, two of them elven snipers, and the other a bear shaman spec'd for healing, but primarily trying to maul everything including my SUV.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 07:57 AM

I'm getting very conflicting info. Everyone wants me to increase my low stats. Ok, high pools go down to 10 or 8. Everyone wants me to get more equipment to take care of alternate situations. Ok, I no longer have all those hacker programs, or I need to get rid of some drones.

I already gave up on recon drones. I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get those.
I already gave up on fake SIN. I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get that.
I already gave up on useable nonregistered programs. I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get those.
I already gave up on all but the absolutely essential skills for face. I'm waiting till I get some karma in the campaign to get those.
I already gave up on combat drones for various situations. I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get those.
I already gave up on jumping in. I'm waiting till I get some body so I don't screw up for that, and I'm waiting till I get some karma in the campaign to get that.
I already gave up on Agents. They'll screw up tests I could otherwise pass and lead right back to me, and I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get those.
I already gave up on fully modding all my vehicles and drones. I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get those.
I already gave up on empathy software. I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get that.
I already gave up on any personal armor or weapons. I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get those, and even then I probably won't get any since anonymity is my only functional armor.
I already gave up on physical stats. I'm waiting till I get some karma in the campaign to get those.
I already gave up on some of the skills I need to keep my drones in shape. I'm waiting till I get some karma in the campaign to get those.
I already gave up on a commlink that can run my programs. I'm waiting till I get some money in the campaign to get that.

I'll fill this list out more if I think of more, but I finally have a chance to work on my character a bit. I feel like I dumped way too much money into my Lyger Zero Panzer's sensors, so off to fix that!

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 07:59 AM

Proxy through a drone at the edge of the cage. I already take most of my matrix actions through a proxy, and use hot sim to counter the -1 penalty. That's another I forgot to get in my last minute rush to finish my character. A sim rig.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 08:18 AM

#1. Doesn't matter. Any drone can be adapted. The important part is the feeling that shows you aren't a robot. Also, fluidity of motion. You need to show you're used to the body.
#2. I wasn't aware the Evo was a tank.
Anyway, yeah. Half way through the session today I did two things:
A. I realized that the whole "nobody in my party knows about me" isn't going to work. I need to relay my actions truthfully to the GM, and the guys at the table will probably have a difficult time roleplaying the "I believe this guy is a cyborg" act, once they figure it out.
B. I realized I was getting a bit too overzealous with the cyborg idea, since that does precisely the opposite of what I'm attempting, by drawing way too much attention.
#3. Taking care of that. I'll make the availability test next session. I hadn't really used lifestyles before, as I was pretty happy with street, and though VendingWear was a nifty idea that deserved to be advertised.
#4. That's number 3.

As for the trace, what do I not have to prevent hacking? Proxying is +4 threshold to trace me. I have a firewall running at rating 5. I have stealth, spoof, decrypt, exploit, etc. Did my original post not go through, or is there some hidden fifth element?

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 08:29 AM

Better than the whopping 2(or 1) and no skill my teammates have.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 08:41 AM

Ah, caps lock. I see you have mastered the art of starting flame wars on 4chan. Have you read any of the rules for riggers? Please do so and get back to me on that. Page 247 of the core book would do you some good. You may notice my Ford is completely unequipped. This is because I plan to use it later, once I actually gain the resources to support all these rolls. Thank you for your patience.

Actually, I wasn't aware you even could use agility on matrix actions. Okay, I'll stop teasing. Just read that page I sent you.

Actually, the hacking is kind of bad at this point. I'm leery of using any of my programs until I can get a warez contact for some unregistered ones.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 08:52 AM

One last thing. Not sure if this matters or not, but this is:

• My first hacker.
• My first rigger.
• My first face.

Posted by: ggodo May 29 2011, 09:11 AM

The bear has 7 CHA. He just breaks walls instead of talking.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 09:35 AM

Ah. Forgot drain stats.

Posted by: Glyph May 29 2011, 09:59 AM

There is a difference between "guy with middling skills who does the talking, because no one else could be bothered", and a face. So really, he's a hacker/rigger. Actually, he's a hacker with some drones. Honestly, while the low stats don't bug me as much as they do the others, they are still a glaring weakness (bunker riggers/stay-at-home hackers only work up to a point). I would recommend dropping Edge to shore up your physical Attributes a bit - Edge is nice, but you want to cover the essentials first, then raise it.

I personally loathe it, but I am still surprised that, for a techie plugged into the party spokesman role, you didn't get empathy software for him.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 10:14 AM

Dang, you've got a point on the facery, but I'll be amending that soon.
I've thought about the edge so many times, but I just can't do it. That last point is going to cost me 35 karma in game, whereas I can raise BOD, AGI, and REA to 2 for 30 karma in game, and STR effectively to 8 for 3500 nuYen if I absolutely have to.
The physical stats thing seems like a lesson I'm going to have to learn the hard way. I just hope the time doesn't come for a while, because even after chargen, I wasn't done with chargen.

Couldn't afford it. You seem to have noticed that social took a "backseat". YEEEEAAAAAHHH
But seriously, I don't negotiate or con left and right, so I generally just boost it with edge.

Posted by: Eimi May 29 2011, 10:39 AM

Just for the record, a score of 1 in an attribute doesn't mean a character is crippled in that area. It just means they're rather badly underdeveloped in it. Hell, if we were to pretend that SR's attribute system worked in real life, I'd probably have a strength and body of 1 myself, due to a chronic disease that's left me with sapped-out muscles and an out-of-shape cardiovascular system. I can still walk around for a bit on errands, or carry a couple of bags of groceries for a bit, but I'm not going to be running very far or lifting much more without becoming quickly exhausted. I'm not crippled in those areas, but I *am* really quite bad at them, even compared to the average person's more frequent scores of 2 or so (3 is "average", but more accurately "high average", 2 is more the "average average").

Now, mind you, I would have an agility and reflex of 2 or 3 (though they used to be higher), so I'm not all 1s. Someone with all 1s would be...in a pretty bad place to even try and get around on an average day. They'd be a mess. But they could still huff and puff and occasionally trip their way down a hallway on a run, even if they'd be in serious trouble if they were in the thick of things when the shit hit the fan. But they WOULD be able to walk down a hallway without dying (I mean, assuming it isn't trapped...) and take a seat to hack a non-wi-fi server. They're just going to be really reliant on their more able-bodied teammates to keep them from dying when the aforemention fan-shitting happens.

(Not defending lbr in this thread, or giving characters 1s in scores to save points in general, just saying...1 doesn't mean "crippled". It just means "really bad performance in this attribute". Same goes for mental scores, too. An intelligence of 1 doesn't mean one is retarded, it just means one has the problem-solving and memory of a sieve. A charisma of 1 doesn't mean the character has to offend everyone they ever meet the moment they open their mouth, it just means they're really unlikely to ever IMPRESS anyone when they open their mouth. And, of course, less dice means more chance for glitches, which covers the "low attribute should have extra penalties" aspect. They do. They're called glitches when the character is FORCED to try their hand at something they're bad at.)

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 29 2011, 01:36 PM

And yet, you have a character that cannot truly fulfill the roles of Hacker, Rigger OR Face. Really, Longbowrocks, you should ignore the compulsion to Munchkin the character, and actually come up with something else that would work as a viable character. I am not the only one who thinks that the character you proposed is an epic fail for those niches you want to work in.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 29 2011, 01:43 PM

Which is why it does not work very well. It is hard to combine archtypes into an effective whole, especially if you have never created/played the ones you are trying to combine. Hacker/Rigger is rather easy to accomplish, as they use many of the same skills and stats. Throwing Face into the Mix makes it a little harder (No Cross skills/Attributes), but can be done. Just not usually as your first attempt at it. And as a note... Combining them into a single whole will usually result in a character that is not as good as a Dedicated version of what you are combining.

However, Good Luck on the attempt.

Posted by: Irion May 29 2011, 01:48 PM

@longbowrocks
Talk to your group and use karmagen.
I too have a problem with putting attributes beyond 1 in BP sometimes. Because I want the extra BP from INT and LOGIC for hobbys and a bunch of contacts and every skill my character has picked up in his backstory.

But do yourself a favor: All physical attributes to one is just bad. (Body 3 is going to help you a lot, because it ups your dices for resistance from 3 to 9, which is very nice)

(But yes, the character will probably not have any problem to survive, since you have enough edge to throw around.)

(As a matter of fact going with an technomancer would have been a viable choice. For you get your explaination for the bad physical attributes for free)

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 29 2011, 02:37 PM

Not really, no.
Why is a Technomancer inherently poor in his Physicals?

Posted by: Irion May 29 2011, 03:26 PM

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein#
Beeing locked up in the matrix while your body is dependend on artificial nutrition can do that to you. (Actually will do that to you)

(If you need to do it through the blood stream because the digestive organs started failing, it gets even worse)

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 29 2011, 03:36 PM

Also, you have way too many programs, especially if you're not going to actually use them. Recon drones are hella cheap; drop some of the tertiary programs and get some micro and mini drones.

In summary: it's not a rigger without drones, not a hacker without using programs, and not a face without CHA, Skills, and DP-adders.

And bump your physicals to 2, it's not that hard.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 29 2011, 04:51 PM

And yet, this is not required or even common for most, if not all Hackers or Technomancers. Technomancers really only need this when on a Resonance Quest. So, I do not really see the necessity of such a thing. Most people are going to be average in stats (Technomancer or not). That is just the way it is.

Posted by: Irion May 29 2011, 05:45 PM

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
It is a common story for how people became Technomancer. If you play after the crash 2.0.

I am not saying every technomancer has to I am just saying it is a plausible explaination for every Technomancer.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 06:40 PM

Why does it not work? Is it all the things I listed as "droppoed because I couldn't afford it", or is it something else? I haven't really used the 5 IP yet, so I might get rid of the simsense booster in exchange for more equipment. In particular, some programs that I can crack (our group decided to use 'you can patch your degrading programs with your legal corporate ones').

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 06:53 PM

Actually, I decided to drop some programs yesterday. I'd been on the fence about data bomb and defuse for a while; disarm can go; I can drop attack in favor of nuke. This is starting to clear up now that I've had some time to reflect. Any other suggestions, or programs I was wrong to drop?

Ah, I see. Drones are cheap. I'll be getting some right after I get some warez programs. I'm making a hefty pilot program to give a guy in hopes he'll become my link into a warez group contact.
The face will be fine. I'm just about to buy empathy software, which both ggodo and I understand doesn't apply to everything, but defeinitely does enough. Mostly I've been playing face with a dice pool of about 12 though (edge).

Ech. I can see the tremendous bonus to many resistance tests, but I just can't do it. I'll wait till later in the game, once I have enough resources. For now I'll rely on medicine and symbiotes.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere May 29 2011, 07:41 PM

Hey longbow, i sympathize with getting stuck on support guys duties. I still think like many others your concept is flawed, thematicly I can't see many teams wanting to relay on a hacker that can't come into the meat at all. At least with an AI you can carry them in on a comlink even though it's risky as all hell.

My honest advice though if you want to keep the face in the equation, switch gears and go a charisma based technomancer stream, technomancers make great drone riggers too because of their access to machine sprites, hell on the whole their one of the best rounded streams when it coems to sprite access. You'll be hurting for BP's but your going to be doing that regardless and the ability to thread will help boost your shortcomigns to start with. My advice is concentrate on face and hacker first with a smattering of coding and registering and leave the rigging to the sprites at least to start.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 08:41 PM

I think it was decided in a thread our GM started up that sprites coudn't rig without the AI quality. I don't want to try overturning that decision without a good reason. The technomancer sounds like a better idea than what I have, but I've already spent so much time creating this character that I'm just going to stick with this for now. It doesn't look like I'm in any danger of dying yet (we had our first run yesterday).

*Oh god, I just acknowledged that an emerged character would be a good idea. Next thing you know I'll be playing awakened characters. I definitely need to fix up this character so I have enough leeway to destroy a mage or two after this next session.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 29 2011, 08:41 PM

They can Command… which is exactly what your 'rigger' PC was gonna do.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 08:54 PM

But do any of them have gunnery skill? I guess I could build my own. Then again, he did say to only do that for a while, and I only plan to command for a while until I can comfortably defend myself.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 29 2011, 09:08 PM

If the sprite is using command it doesn't need the gunnery skill, the drone will be using it's auto-softs.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 29 2011, 09:40 PM

Eh~ Kinda fudging the rules there. And assuming that the drone can use its autosofts to aim when your sprite is using a virtual joystick to aim, and not expecting any interference. Maybe if you run the autosoft on the sprite as a CF, but then it's still a bit weird.

Posted by: Fortinbras May 29 2011, 10:13 PM

Once that drone enters the cage, it loses it's connection to you. If the drone is outside of the cage, it can't hack anything inside and on runs you often don't have time to dismantle such a structure.

I'm not trying to rag on you, but I'm saying that I, as a GM, would have a field day with a character not on site with the rest of the team.
When my team does runs, there is usually an offline Matrix node that the hacker has to be onsite to access. I use faraday cages, Wi-Fi inhibitors, signal jammers and even a Jamming spell on a sustained focus once.
On top of that I would have your drones in a constant Signal Warfare battle with every Tom, Dick and Technomancer who popped up. You could be faced with loosing control of the cyborg you, which takes you out of the game, just because someone jams it's signal or rolls really well on a Command roll.
On top of that, everything you do is being broadcast through the air at an incredible signal rating. All KE, or anyone on half the planet, has to do is get a decent Decrypt program and all your exploits are on the record.
On top of that, everything you do is traceable back to where your meat body is, where there is, presumably, little in the way of defense compared to the rest of the party. Even with a proxy server, you are still totally traceable. Don't believe me? Make a post entitled "You can't trace a hacker through a proxy server" and see what response that elicits.

There is just too much stuff that a GM can do to really bollocks this guy over and I'd hate to see that happen to a character you like.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 29 2011, 10:17 PM

Esp. when it's built in such bad faith.

Posted by: ggodo May 29 2011, 11:51 PM

Oop, posted the wrong thing in this thread. I would like to remind you that there may be some travel involved in the future, so you had best have a way to deal with that.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 12:18 AM

It's the cage walls that prevent the signal, not the mechanical disconnect. If there is a door, I position my repeater drone in the doorway. If there isn't a door, we can't get in. Definitely not stealthy, and definitely not secure, but people don't exactly put faraday cages in every building in Seattle, and I need to give up something to be practically immune to ritual spells.

I didn't realize until today that all my drone actions had to be direct link in mutual signal range. At least it sounds that way in the FAQ, although I'm getting different readings from the core book. They also need to get a decent Decrypt program, and have decent skill. Later it will be R10, but that's low on my to do list.

Meh, I don't run the defense program on my drones, so I'll replace it with ECCM.
I might also use directional antennas.
In the end, don't worry. I'll be jumping in soon. Or once it starts getting tough. Either way. I only have one drone active at a time anyway. The others are in the car or something, and if someone jumps into the car, they jump into the car. Not much more I can do about that by being with the group when they aren't with the car.
If I really want to stick with command, I might make a super-secure drone, install faraday cages on my others, and upload new scripts through wired links if we run into complications. Or I could have them all slaved to my secure drone by wire constantly.

I wasn't aware this game had evolved to a point where +4 to a threshold was insignificant.

I actually thought I was mostly making actions through the matrix, with a high signal as backup if I ran into trouble. I'll rethink this as I keep working on this guy.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 12:19 AM

Workin' on it. I have enough bonuses that I can probably spread my skills more.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere May 30 2011, 12:22 AM

Why would sprites not be able to rig drones? I am aware of the line of logic that AI's need the drone origin quality to rig but sprites are not AI's and vice versa.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 12:38 AM

I didn't do any research on it, but here's the topic if you want:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=34931
*the topic where it came up last.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 30 2011, 12:42 AM

Why would they? Do they have control rigs?

Posted by: LurkerOutThere May 30 2011, 12:45 AM

I read that thread, my point stands, sprites are not agents or AI, just because an AI can't rig a drone doesn't mean a sprite could not. In fact it would be counter intuitive if they couldn't as machine sprites wouldn't need the ability to get autsofots as complex forms. Also this is fourth edition a control rig is no longer required to rig things.

Edit: Damn, shouldn't type tired.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 30 2011, 01:21 AM

I was just teasing. The question is, what makes you think they *can* rig? Agents can't, plain AI can't, etc.

Posted by: Fortinbras May 30 2011, 02:27 AM

You are far more vulnerable to Trace programs, which give your physical location. A Watcher spirit working as a spotter then makes you just as vulnerable to Ritual magic. If you are truly worried about ritual magic samples, I might recommend the Genewipe genetic augmentation.


Yes, you need mutual signal range for most drone actions. Specifically, inhabiting that drone. Your computer and it's computer need to be able to talk to each other. You can route that communication through the Matrix, but then you would be using the signal rating of the connecting device for the purposes of jamming.

In terms of a Decrypt, even a decent one isn't necessary. You are broadcasting your signal constantly, so only a few rolls are needed to match the hits you got. As a GM, I'd have not only KE, but any number of folks just keeping an ear out for broadcast signals throughout the metroplex. You could make enemies you don't even know about.
Moreover, if you are hired to steal a piece of paydata from company A and give it to Company B, then when you hack it out of the mainframe with the team, it gets sent through the air and back to you. what if some CB enthusiast gets a hold of it and sells it to Company B before you do?
As does all the commlink communication between your team get sent all over the planet.


Again, as a GM, a directional antenna would tell me exactly where you are. Like pointing a shiny arrow to your location.
Being with the team makes Electronic Warfare easier as you are within mutual signal range easier. If you only have one drone and you're jumped into it, all a competing rigger needs to do is use a strong jamming signal and you get dumped while they get control of the robot you. Now your team has a Trojan Horse.
It's what I'd do, anyway.

Your average Hacker is rolling 12 dice. A +4 means one extra roll. If all of your actions are through the Matrix, all the time, that's nothing.

I'm just giving you a heads up when the GM has a cadre of KE officers bust down the door of your meat body's home.
You are giving yourself unnecessary complications. The idea of the remote hacker or rigger is not new, but they rarely last because there is just too much going on. When you are with the team, the mage and sammies can keep you safe from the flying bullets. When you are on your own you're... well on your own.

Pity the runner all by his lonesome.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 03:49 AM

I'm not so worried about genetic samples, since those don't sound so stupid to me. They're definitely more likely, but I just can't tolerate the thought of dying because of a symbolic link. I mean, really. The mage found a picture of me? The mage heard a good enough description of me from a guy who saw me to draw a picture of me? God, I'll keep a dagger on hand to stab myself in the chest before some that idiotic ends my character.


It's always good to check everything, so could you quote where it says that you cannot use the matrix and must use mutual signal range for rigging?


There's the directional antenna (assuming we're talking wireless), so they'd need to be in a specific zone, which would probably cover most of the complex we were infiltrating, so that's not to difficult (well, they would have to be within the constantly moving band between my signal and the party's signal being sent, so maybe a bit tougher). Outside of combat though (which is when we generally receive the information we were sent to collect) I can just spend every action encrypting and re-encrypting my signal. It's not like I have anything else to do with my simple actions. I could also let them into a bait commlink with a databomb with black IC attached to an "important file". Possibilities in the matrix are endless.


The GM always knows. He sets up the world. On the other hand, I can just cover my directional antenna with a paper hat to hide the direction it's facing. I doubt security will want to waste time running in a large circle around our party sniffing for signals while we're accomplishing the mission. As for jamming, I'll just get ECCM rating 6 until I can upgrade my drone even more and raise the rating. Not like the signal can be overcome either way when it's effectively 11+ against jamming.

What to do if that is overridden though... Ah, equip my drone with a commlink. I'll put a rating 1 agent or something on the commlink with a subscription to my drone's node. If the subscription is interrupted, the agent should switch the drone's wireless to 'off' and let it run on the scripts that I've loaded up pre-mission, or its own pilot. If that's not enough, then the commlink is a microdrone, which hits a manual "wireless off" switch.


one extra roll means at least one roll. Hopefully I get some chance to recognize he's tracking me, or at least he needs to roll against my stealth first. In that case I'll just use nuke, and let him roll 2 dice all day since he'll probably be too obstinate to reboot.

But the mages! Maybe I should have taken paranoia instead of prejudice.
I didn't think of this until just now, but what's going to make anyone think there's a remote hacker, or a rigger in the drone? Why wouldn't they assume one of our party is the hacker? You've already mentioned that the remote hacker idea has been done, and beaten every time, so I imagine it's not common in the shadowrunning world.


Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly I thought: "Damn I'm lonely, but at least I'm safe from mages".

I couldn't think of anything else to say to this, but I wanted to reply to all your comments.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 30 2011, 04:10 AM

You realize that your obsession with ritual magic is unhealthy, right? Your characters should indeed take a negative quality to reflect it, hehe.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 04:31 AM

That's something I can take some advice on. Any suggestions? I've already reached the negative quality cap, but I can always take more to reflect character as long as I don't get BP for it.

Posted by: Fortinbras May 30 2011, 05:02 AM

But you aren't safe from mages. You are traceable. Easily traceable. Either you are constantly broadcasting an incredibly strong signal which can be traced back to your location either through Sniffer(area) or a straight line(directional antenna), and looking for strange signals is the first thing any rigger/spyder does once something is afoul. The Technomancer in my game is pretty much always doing that. Your ECCM will help, but once they get through that 3(or 6) it will degrade the drone's signal down so that you are no longer within mutual signal range.

Or you are going through the Matrix, in which case a pretty simple Three Musketeer IC or Spyder with a half a decent Trace program is going to get your location in about a combat turn. And you can't just turn on a dime and change your Access ID like a normal hacker because your drone is slaved to one particular Access ID.
This runs further afoul when you consider that a lot of places Shadowrunners break into aren't connected to the Matrix. Further, no one will have to jam your drone's signal, just the signal of whichever device you are piggy backing off of.

In either case, you run the risk of everything you do being noticeable by someone who has Decrypted your signal, which is much easier than you think when you consider you won't be Encrypting every other round, you will be commanding or, while jumped in, moving. And you can't databomb important files because that file is being broadcast at the same time you are receiving it.
It doesn't matter how secure you think it is, you will never know how secure it actually is. That info is just flying through the air and you can only hope no one Decrypted it. You have no idea whether they did or not until it's too late.
You also put your teammates in the situation that everything they said to you was being picked up by someone.
Not someone I'd want to work with.

Most importantly, mages already have something that is a symbolic link to you... your drone!

I'm telling you, broadcasting from a remote location is far more dangerous than being on site, where the team's mage can Counterspell.
You are banking on the fact that no NPCs in the game will ever jam you, trace you, decrypt you, spoof your drone or run a detect wireless signal. If any of those things happen, you are out of the game.
You are doing this because you are afraid your GM is going to have some random mage with a rare metamagic cast an incredibly potent Ritual Spell on you, which can be avoided by everything from Arcane Arrester to buying a Nimue Salamander?

Honestly, which do you think is more likely?

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 05:41 AM

I used to think that too, but once you got me to searching, all I can find are implied binary relationships between jamming and signal: either full signal or zero. Can you point me to the page where the rules for signal degradation are outlined?


That was the original idea. Have like 10 effective signal on my commlink, but stay wired until someone jams my connection. In that case I immediately switch on my commlink and do what i have to in the shortest time possible. No one is going to get to my house, or take any physical or magical action against me in 3-6 seconds. If combat takes over 10 IPs, I've got to wonder what I'm fighting.
As for tracing, they have -5 (soon to be -6) to their dice pool from my stealth program, and hopefully +4 to threshold from proxying, unless I'm rigging with the 10 signal monster.


I definitely can't encrypt every other round in combat, but out of combat I could probably just say "I'm re-encrypting my signal every few seconds" and roll a test. The result would be used for each subsequent attempt so I don't need to interrupt play for something the sammies will consider irrelevant. As for the "important file" I put it in quotes for a reason. That was just a bait file to kill the guy trying to steal my secrets. It wasn't in transit, I just left it on a node in our party that may naturally attract a hacker.


Yeah, I know that you can't detect... No, apparently I misremembered. Matrix perception is allowed to detect traffic sniffing.


Damn them. Now I have to go back and remove any and all of my mechanic or modding skills. I'm never going to touch my drones again.
That would work since magic doesn't work with technology, and something I've never physically touched or even seen couldn't possibly be a symbolic link. Then again, I really don't want to do that... That's a problem for tomorrow. I still need to figure out what to prioritize after I buy some unregistered programs, and figure out what else I can shove into this character for cheap.


TBH, I don't think ggodo is ever going to send a mage after me with initiations under his belt. Especially not with the metamagics required for symbolic foci. Even if he did, he wouldn't do a complex ritual (I think). He's much more likely to test my strengths and weaknesses equally. I'm still not going to give it a chance to happen though. Think of it as roleplaying, since I'm aware this choice is sub-optimal, that's actually all it could be.

*edit: he has sent mages with initiations, but he didn't ever expect us to fight them. Technically, we didn't, but the stronger the mage, the more my blood boils. I just had to try to kill Lofwyr.
In my defense, I waited until everyone was wrapping up their dice at the end of our last campaign, asked for confirmation that we weren't going to use these characters again, and rolled with what remained of my edge from that session.

Posted by: Manunancy May 30 2011, 05:51 AM

If your commlink can handle it, you can also have an agent running which has one task only : encrypt/decrypt you communications. That should take care of the problem without straining your own initiative passes. That sort of repetitive background tasks are precisely what gaents were developed for.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 06:03 AM

Genius.
*costs a bit though.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 30 2011, 06:20 AM

Rating 1, of course. Honestly, the commlink should do that on its own, just like it does Analyze on its own.

Posted by: ggodo May 30 2011, 06:34 AM

For the record, any ritual links are likely to be used as plot macguffin, if that eases your pain a bit. Ritual murder is no fun. Much better to have that blaze of glory shining off your pink mohawk when you go.

Posted by: PoliteMan May 30 2011, 06:40 AM

Bah, you're already building your Nexus, right? And your bot net? You need to get a replicating agent pretty quick, otherwise you can't botnet.

Okay, one way to go with the physical stats in cyberlimbs. The two things you probably want to look into is increasing the agility on your cyberarm (+armor, obviously) so you can use pistols well and a cybertorso. Yes, the cybertorso is less than optimal but you want to customize it and boost it's body. Most GMs will let you use the cybertorso's body in place of your own for damage tests (#1, most shots are torso/body shots #2 it's the only way the torso makes any sense.) Those two won't make you great but they'll give you enough armor and shooting ability that physical activities won't be impossible. Plus, tons of capacity is always good.

If you're really worried about traces, look through Runner's Companion, there's a couple thing you can get there that make you harder to track (and it's free anyway). Also, remember that you can use multiple proxies. Finally, consider hacking random things, like vending machines, and manually setting them up as proxy servers. That means the opposition can't just track you, they have to hack that proxy and retrieve the information themselves. If you can set up a couple of linked proxy servers you've built yourself, you're basically untraceable. If you want to be untracable, really untracable, manually set up one of these proxy nodes somewhere far away using an Admin account, then move the log to your commlink. Now there is basically nothing to track.

Right now, play to your strengths. You're a brutal hacker, use that, and can pull rigging duty most of the time. If not, set up a fall back where if the drones lose contact with you, they automatically establish a connection with Teammate A.

Posted by: Fortinbras May 30 2011, 06:46 AM

If you are operating the robo-drone via Matrix by default, then you have a number of worries, namely what the opposing rigger/spyder is doing to your robo-drone after you were dumped out of it. He may not bust down your door in 10 IPs, but he could very well take control of that drone. If you don't think that's possible, ask yourself "How would I do it?" That's how he did it.
When tracing, it's an extended test. You are going to be using the same Access ID the whole time(the one your drone is slaved to) so as long as you are on the Matrix, you are vulnerable to being traced. That means the whole time the team is trying to get out of the building you broke into, you are traceable. Moreover, you could have no idea who is tracing you. Sure, you saw the IC that deployed when you triggered an alarm, but while fighting that IC you may not have seen that Spyder who is running his trace program on you. You can run Matrix Perception every round, but that's no guarantee. Even if you find him, that's no gaurentee either because, unlike a regular hacker, you can't just log off. So in order for people to not know where you live, the point of being remote in the first place, you have to hope you spot a tracer, hope you can beat him in Cybercombat, hope he doesn't reach your Trace threshold before you do and hope the party isn't moving while you do.


If using your high signal broadcast, you are also running into a myriad of problems, namely that while you are re-encrypting every few seconds, someone Decrypting is doing it all the time. It's all they are doing. And you don't know who they are or why they are doing it. Imagine old ladies with police scanner or CB enthusiasts. Some people just take information out of the air. He doesn't have to hack your node or even be aware of it because you are sending everything in your node across half the planet.
Most importantly, you don't know if someone is doing this. You have no idea whether or not someone is getting your signals out of the air because they aren't in any node, save their own. You can make Matrix Perception tests on nodes you are in, but for all you know, this cat isn't even connected to the Matrix.
Same goes for someone running a Sniffer program on your Signal. You can detect them if they are in your node, but not if he's just looking for broadcast signals from his own.
Either through Trace or through Sniff, your meat body is getting found. One Watcher spirit as a spotter and that mage won't need a link to cast his Ritual Magic on you.

This is how NPCs are born. Some schmuck got a hold of some awesome paydata while trying to snoop on the neighbors and now he's selling it to the highest bidder. Mr. Johnson ain't pleased.
This is what GMs do. We look for cool stories. In trying to make an invincible hacker, you have made one far more vulnerable than you realize.

You aren't the first person to think of the remote hacker idea. You aren't the hundred thousandth. These are problems that have been faced and shall be faced again. What you are doing is splitting up the party. That is never, ever a good idea.

Anything you have, the bad guys have 3. While an Agent constantly running Encrypt is another common tactic, it is safe to assume that the bad guys have agents doing the same.

Posted by: suoq May 30 2011, 09:23 AM

I thought signal range had to be mutual (PG 222 SR4A).

I also though prejudiced was against a type of people, not a single individual (PG 108 RC). Using Prejudiced in the way you describe certainly makes it a lot more appealing than enemy. I need to add "Predudiced, Outspoken, ex-Wife" to my next character. Easiest 10 BP ever.

Posted by: Ghost_in_the_System May 30 2011, 01:48 PM

So, just something I came up with real quick to try and fill the role of hacker/rigger/face. Tried to keep in line with the original concept while adding a bit of extra omph into the social and physical aspects.

The Pheromones won't work when working through a robot, but you have chatty for that. They are there to make physical social a possibility.

No Gunnery skill, just use the command program whenever you need to take a shot.

Synth is there to balance out low stats. Gymnastics gives you some ranged defense if need be, just don't get caught in melee.

If you need a few extra BP for contacts or whatever, consider dropping the specializations and picking them up for karma in game.

Won't be huge in any area, but generally 10ish dice for most stuff. 15ish for social, either through a bot or in meat.

-Taikei no Yuurei

P.S. Woo, my first post, finally noticed the part about e-mailing the admin after waiting forever

P.P.S. Mutual signal range is obtained when two devices are within signal range either directly, or by bouncing through other available devices (ie. the matrix) They don't need to actually be within signal range of one another.

P.P.P.S. Jamming is an all or nothing ordeal, so if you have a maxed signal and ECCM no jammer from the book can hinder you. Weird, I know, but that's how it works.

P.P.P.P.S. For encrypt/decrypt, you don't need to spend an action every turn or anything. You just need a simple action to start encrypting a signal, and another to decrypt the signal you are recieving. After that it will continue to remain in that state without further interference. Just like an encrypted file remains encrypted without further actions.

Posted by: Fortinbras May 30 2011, 03:00 PM

I'm referring to Jamming on the Fly. It's harder to get more net successes than folk with ECCM, but not impossible.
The reason you want to Encrypt as much as you can is for those within your signal range who are running a Decrypt program. Once they reach your Encryption threshold, they have access to everything you broadcast.
So if you spend a simple action to Encrypt, get say 4 hits, all I need to do to listen in on your Matrix traffic is get 4 hits on an extended test to listen in on what you broadcast, which in the case of a remote hacker is everything he does and everything the team says to him.

Shadowrun tries to avoid some of the massive complications that come from the field of cryptanalysis, and ops for the idea that in the future things are just easier to decrypt. If you actually know a lot about cryptanalysis, don't over think it. You will hurt your brain.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 30 2011, 03:09 PM

So, you are saying that the chronically physically unfit become technomancers? I did not get that from the Fluff at all... You must be reading different fluff than I am.

Posted by: Ghost_in_the_System May 30 2011, 03:15 PM

Yeah, but keep in mind that unless the jammer is standing right on top of you, they're going to be suffering some penalties to signal (-1/5m) which is going to make it even harder. It is possible, but highly unlikely.

And yes, it does avoid complications because it is a game, not a world simulator. That said, I don't know how I'd deal with the R1 agent idea. Personally it sounds silly because that is basically what the encrypt program should be doing anyway, changing the key dynamically, and the agent isn't going to be any better at it than the program itself. And as someone else said, anything you have, the enemies have three of, so all it is going to do is change you encrypting and then the enemy decrypting to your agent constantly encrypting and your enemy's agent constantly decrypting. Basically leaves you right where you started and adds needless complication and expense.

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 30 2011, 03:30 PM

You need Command *and* Gunnery. Check SR4A p247.

It still helps to have Encryption on automatic, because you *do* have to Encrypt each new communications link; if you make new links, that's new actions.

Posted by: Ghost_in_the_System May 30 2011, 03:40 PM

Hmm, guess that is new, I still don't have a 4A book, so I'll trust that it is there. You could consider getting an optimized pilot for your drone along with an autosoft and relying on it being able to hit on its own because, lets be honest, when firing with a burst weapon, you really don't need that many dice to hit stuff.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 04:43 PM

I think I'll just keep some clockwork drones on me at all times. That's a much better idea for personal combat when I have no big drones around. As for BOD, I'm building up a bit of natural body, since I don't want to use essence on cyberlimbs (I'll need every bit I can get for all the second-hand ware in my future).

I'll look through RC again with that specifically on my agenda. As for proxies, I want to minimize my penalty to matrix actions if at all possible. Each proxy s a -1 to matrix actions. Are you talking about moving a real log, or the game's abstraction of a log? I think Shadowrun's version also takes the place of an arp table or dns, so the device knows where to send data.

I thought of that, but I imagine the enemy hacker is going to shut me out and rig it in the same pass, so basically I'm going to need a physical means of shutting him out. I wonder if I can somehow turn my drone into a UV node so the hacker takes 8P when he drops out.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 05:12 PM

Well, that would apply to any situation. I'm not denying it's easier to maintain after its done if I'm remote, but I can always defend against most cases to make it pretty hard to take me down in the first place. We've been arguing these specific cases for a while now.


We'll see how it plays out in game.


I imagine the threshold is higher than your average mook's dicepool (avg 3-4 hits + 4 threshold = 7-8 threshold). I also move around in meatspace, which is why I have Disguise, and a less expensive/noticable lifestyle for my character.


Not trying to make an invincible hacker. Just one that won't leave photos or images of himself lying around. One that nobody has ever seen the face of, so GM fiat can't say "the mage found someone who knows your face".


Indeed, but I won't stop until someone gets past the directed plastic explosives in my hallway, and my slaved steampunk dragons. Maybe I can even find some biodrones and feed them shade, or put biofiber in my walls. Either way, someone can find me much more easily if they don't need to find me, because I'm with the party, which gets into combat and runs under cameras.

You mean they would be running Decrypt? Can agents take teamwork tests on decrypt? Anyway, yes. And I imagine those agents would be on a node inside the compound, so they would get our signals anyway.

Posted by: ggodo May 30 2011, 10:40 PM

Also, Know that there is little tech in the barrens, but that there is lots of tech for most other bad guys.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 30 2011, 11:11 PM

I'll do what I can to be ready. I have some armor now just in case, but I'm going to push that range for all its worth.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 31 2011, 12:25 AM

No . . . they're saying a lot of technomancers (at least a lot of technomancers created by players) were online during crash 2.0 and became physically unfit after some time in a coma getting their only nourishment through an IV drip. Others were subjected to horrific experiments that may have impacted their health lowering some or all of their physical stats.

Posted by: Bodak May 31 2011, 01:14 AM

Mostly he reminds me of the Emu Samurai. I haven't seen him for a while... maybe this is his new login?
For such a minmax character and the low low price of an emotitoy and the (supposed) role of this character as a (robotic) Face I am surprised you don't have an emotitoy from chargen which you intend to upgrade later in play to a full suite of empathy software. In fact, looking at the "I already gave up on *. I'm waiting until I have infinite karma and nuyen to afford it." sounds kind of like your aim is to (eventually) grow a Jack Of All Trades from an initial Specialist (because BP chargen doesn't penalise specialist builds). A more common / reasonable approach would be to start with a generalist who can turn his hand to any task (to make sure you can always contribute to each part of a run, always justifiably get a share of the karma and nuyen) and then chooses a field or two to develop further.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein May 31 2011, 01:37 AM

Very Poor rationalization for having 1's in all Physical Stats...