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Posted by: Nerdynick May 29 2011, 01:19 AM

I've had this idea scratching at the back of my skull for awhile and its mostly been inspired by movies like Watchmen, Kick-Ass, The Punisher, and even Batman. What do these all have in common? Vigilantes without superpowers. The idea has even been poked at, if I recall correctly, in the old Cybertechnology sourcebook for 2e (some guy posting with the username Kent who was talking about how wired reflexes, hydraulic jacks, and muscle replacement made him "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound"). So why shouldn't some people be trying to be superheroes? Hell, the corps could even market cybersuites that gave you themed 'superpowers'. Its not like being a vigilante is any more dangerous than being a shadowrunner (and ironically involves many of the same skills).

Has anybody else played with this idea? If so, to what end?

Posted by: Hagga May 29 2011, 01:25 AM

I'm sure there are a few, but let's face it - anyone out to enforce Truth, Justice, and the UCASian way is going to quickly be snapped up for a reality show by the corps or gunned down in the street. You might find a few local vigilantes, but they too would be offed by the local security corp for making them look bad.

Just make a Shadowrunner with the Global Fame quality. Hey presto! Instant superhero! At that level, your people (to quote someone else, I forget who) spin your atrocities into good press, because there is no way in hell you're an effective runner. Those 50 kids you raped and murdered? Terrorist (technomancer, pre-emergence, possibly deep green group instead) sympathisers. That old folks home you shot up and detonated a canister of Warp in? Manufacturing rugs with slave labour (the elderly, who for unspecified reasons deserved to die) and taking away money from good, honest, hardworking drones (The newest Renraku model).

Posted by: Summerstorm May 29 2011, 01:32 AM

There totally are those. For example Mages/Mystic Adepts/ Adepts following a weird totem or way (I myself have played a character -now a NPC in my campaign- who follows a "Revenge" Kami. Runs around trying to make the world better by punishing the wicked and hold the "monsters" off)

I believe there would be many "Punisher" types. (Or Big Daddy, if you prefer). Trying to take organized crime down, out of revenge - or boredom, or psychological problems.

Hell, i could even think about a "real cosmic power" character. Say a great dragon, or a free spirit to see itself as a superhero.

But overall this isn't the "tone" of the game. "Superheroes" have the tendency to die a horrible and messy death and should be seen either as harmless romantics or mentally ill.

Posted by: Whipstitch May 29 2011, 02:35 AM

"Hooding" is alive and well in each edition of Shadowrun, it's just that almost nobody gives a shit about Clark Kent because by 2070 the character is 132 years old. Plus, if you want to feel like an invincible bad ass you can seriously just pop in a tailored hot-sim BTL and get your adrenaline rush that way without cramming a quarter million nuyen worth of metal into your frame. There's tons of people aspiring to be local legends, it's just that they're usually gangers and their heroes don't look like our heroes.

Posted by: Nerdynick May 29 2011, 03:20 AM

The Superman example was just that, an example. But I'd be willing to bet that the superhero tradition lived through the awakening, providing a whole new slew of superheroes. Writers just have to get a bit more creative with their characters.

The idea behind a vigilante, though, is that he's not just doing it for an adrenaline rush, but for justice or revenge or some such.

Posted by: czarcasm May 29 2011, 03:29 AM

There was a shadowrun supplemental about this...

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GmnZCiIYoW0J:www.chibu.net/shadowland/files/tss/Shadorwun%2520Supplimental%2520-%2520The%2520Good%2520Fight.pdf+shadowrun+supplemental+superheroes&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShP-hm8MfoSjbciT9Evm3IHFV4Z-08z4KnWCoPDnB3JOjPMWjZ1aTQzy5Q0esvC5cR1sKI8wxAoNiq0jQW9HUxtbyM0tde4Ox4kk6esY7lOaGv0krrbP4Bgk_xiZ_bBQwOsiFVv&sig=AHIEtbThvBRYpw9cVEF98nlbrv1i6oaVqA

Posted by: CanRay May 29 2011, 03:43 AM

Considering the origin of Cyberpunk (And thus Shadowrun)... http://youtu.be/Tgcc5V9Hu3g.

Posted by: capt.pantsless May 29 2011, 04:32 AM

Totally agree, it doesn't really fit the usual tone, but there's nothing that says you can't go with a different game tone.

Hell, as a plot hook, someone trying to be a superhero is a pretty decent one.

Mr. Johnson wants to become a superhero and needs some help from the PCs
-or-
A superhero is causing problems and someone hires the PC's to 'take care of the problem'. An interesting moral choice presents itself, off the naive super-person, or let them go and loose the cash.

There's a bunch of ways to spin the superhero idea into a gaming session, if not a whole theme of a campaign.

Posted by: Whipstitch May 29 2011, 04:35 AM

Right, but most people handle these urges by fantasizing about revenge/justice or at the extreme end they rough up or kill the most obvious offenders with little ceremony. Joining the Crimson Crush and breaking the legs of anyone who hassles your neighbors is one thing but actually getting a costume and making the shtick your identity, well, now we're often getting into big ol' self-destructive ego territory. Mind you, I do think really driven people exist in the Sixth World, I just tend to think they identify as hard line neo-anarchists, eco-radicals or whatever. Ideologues, in other words, not superheroes. The typical hooding runner probably just think of themselves as well, a runner.

Posted by: Jhaiisiin May 29 2011, 04:54 AM

My group at one point actually played a "heroes" type game in the SR universe. Was actually rather fun. We didn't get a real chance to delve far into it before we lost the chance to play it. Hopefully we'll get back to it.

In a world that's so gritty, the chance for heroes becomes even greater. Always fun to just give them some anonymous backer who will keep them supplied and reasonably hidden.

Posted by: baronspam May 29 2011, 05:06 AM

Someone dressing up in blue spandex and a cape and calling themselves the Cobalt Cougar is probably going to die horribly in a spray of automatic weapon fire in Shadowrun. Yes, gear or awakened powers can do some amazing things, but its still a fairly deadly world. Brains, planning, and teamwork count as much as anything, and someone who leads with his chin as a costumed super is likely going to get dead, fast.

Having said that, not everyone is a stone cold bastard just out for themselves. As Whipstich mentioned, Hooding is alive and well, and some runner teams may do charity work on the side. Also, there are "neighborhood watch" groups in some poorer but still not totally feral areas. I think the old cyberpunk 2020 game used the term "guardian gang" for such groups. Also, while some less noble gangs are simply in it for the money, they may have come to the business decision that they actually need to provide services for all those "security" payments they take. Keeping the other criminals out of the neighborhood keeps them in power, keeps income sources from things like vice and gambling coming in, and makes sure no one gets a crazy idea like trying to get Knight Errant involved. Unless gangers are complete crazies like the Halloweeners or some such, they are probably quite protective of the areas that they live in. Its good for business, provides a veneer of civic responsibility, and some groups probably do genuinely care about their "home" neighborhood.

In such groups exceptional individual will emerge and come to leadership positions. The retired military grunt with his share of cyberware who trains the local neighborhood watch and leads their patrols, the near unkillable troll who hangs out down at the Bar and Grill and keeps the riff-raff away, the semi-retired runner who does free medical clinics for the neighborhood kids and makes sure that if anyone messes with them guy just goes missing one night, those are the superheroes of the Shadowrun world.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere May 29 2011, 05:29 AM

Some of the problem is, barring a dying alien leaving them a peace of supremely powerful otherwordly tech any "superheroes" who gain their power through mundane means are going to be going up against similarly powerful opposition, but a lot more of it. Afterall, crime does pay. That's not to say you couldn't make some sort of a career out of it, hell it's practicly the premise of the Wolf and Raven novel(s).

On the other hand if you have the firepower and the standing for hooding it is very satisfying to come home from a hard days running and firebomb and beat the krill out of the spikes gangers who've moved in down the street from you and won't stop hassling the neighbor kids to run novacoke for them.

Posted by: Glyph May 29 2011, 06:51 AM

Shadowrunners already have the equivalent of superpowers, with augmentations and magic making them more than human. But they would be more in the X-men or Punisher modes - either people who try to do some good in a world that hates and fears them, or ideologically-driven vigilantes.

The key is that they can only strike with impunity if they retain the ability to fade back into the shadows afterwards. This is not dissimilar to how superheroes have secret identities - the difference is that shadowrunners don't draw attention to themselves when they are "righting wrongs", either. Usually. They might make a show of force to demonstrate their resolve to an encroaching gang, or blow up the warehouse where Ares is testing their new neurotoxins.

But they know that the mainstream media and the wheels of justice have both been subverted by the powers that be. If they make a public spectacle of themselves, they know they will, in the end, either be subverted or destroyed. That's the big difference between superheroes, and shadowrunners who have some ideals. In Shadowrun, the bad guys are not posturing twits in spandex with elaborate plots to rule the world. They are the power players who already rule the world. The only way to fight the good fight... is from the shadows.

Posted by: Stahlseele May 29 2011, 05:46 PM

Batman. Can be done.
Ironman. Can be done.
Cyborg. Can be done.
Wolverine. Can be done.
Punisher. Can be done.
Ghostrider. Can be done.
Hulk. Can be done. Kinda.
There is LITTLE that can't be done in the SR-System . .
And less that HASN'T been done yet . .

Posted by: Christian Lafay May 29 2011, 06:17 PM

Just got to remember that there are thousands of Lex Luthers out there now. A lot of cash thrown around to keep things the way they like it.

Posted by: Stahlseele May 29 2011, 06:33 PM

There are Millions of Jokers . . And Bane. And Red Mask.

Posted by: Patrick Goodman May 29 2011, 06:41 PM

Here, why don't I just provide a link to http://azziewatch.patrickgoodman.org/documents/TSS-thegoodfight.zip directly from the source, since I wrote the thing?

Thanks for thinking of it, though.

Posted by: Patrick Goodman May 29 2011, 06:45 PM

Ran a campaign for some time in SR3 with this theme. Of course, I don't like game worlds without any hope; there's no shadows without some light. I prefer to play in the light. Someone else already linked to my TSS article, so that's out there.

Looking back, I don't think I went anywhere near far enough with that article, and might revisit it one of these days if my frustration with the game doesn't make me walk away. Again.

Posted by: Stahlseele May 29 2011, 06:49 PM

Nice O.o

Posted by: Patrick Goodman May 29 2011, 07:02 PM

Okay, I think I'm starting to figure this multi-quote thing out. Some sort of visual cue that it's working would be great, but that's a separate issue.

There are places where the corps don't go. Someone, anyone, willing to keep the gangs at bay in their neighborhood wouldn't have such a tough time of it. Trying to do the Batman thing in downtown Seattle? Not a good idea; KE has more toys than you do, in all likelihood, and it will end much as you describe, I'm sure.

In Puyallup? That's a different kettle of fish entirely.

You clearly don't get it. This is talking about superheroes, not shadowrunners. Global fame and spin doesn't change an atrocity.

The notion here is for someone to be doing something positive instead of negative, not for fame, not for glory, but because it needs to be done.


Then it's my contention you're not doing something right. Yeah, a lot of folks in SR who would take on the role of vigilante (with or without costume, and as Frank Miller said once, there ain't a lot of difference between a trenchcoat and a cape) might have some mental issues, I dare you to show me someone in the game world that doesn't.


Not all of them do it for the adrenaline, but some of them do.


Don't know about the change for them being greater, but the need for them sure as hell is.

Posted by: Patrick Goodman May 29 2011, 07:03 PM

I can't tell, Stahlseele: Are you being sarcastic? (Real question; it's been one of those days.)

Posted by: Stahlseele May 29 2011, 08:00 PM

Me? Nooo . . never . .
Not about something like this . .

yes, i like being an ass and staying cryptic like this.
no, i am not being sarcastic about free stuff for us.

Posted by: Tyro May 29 2011, 09:59 PM

I can't believe nobody's mentioned LA

Posted by: CanRay May 29 2011, 10:20 PM

My group did have to rescue Adam West-Batman from San Diego ComiCon once...

Posted by: Patrick Goodman May 29 2011, 10:48 PM

Well, I'm glad you like it.

Having said somewhere that I might revisit this...is there an actual interest in such a thing?

Posted by: ggodo May 29 2011, 10:57 PM

I would like it. I think a really high power Justice League type game would be rather neat, especially coming out of the shadows.

Posted by: Nerdynick May 29 2011, 11:56 PM

I would definitely like to see it. I think SR would benefit from a lighter approach. If not lighter, then at least different.

Posted by: Glyph May 30 2011, 12:12 AM

Shadowrun superheroes would probably be more like the Authority, up to and including pissing off the powers that be to the point that they send a redneck cyberzombie named Three Willie Seth after them.

Posted by: Stahlseele May 30 2011, 12:13 AM

Sure, there's always interest in good writing/fun stuff . .
Maybe include some references to comic books and 3 or 4 character concepts clearly modeled after certain heroes? ^^

Posted by: Jhaiisiin May 30 2011, 02:16 AM

I'd love to see the updated ideas!

Posted by: ggodo May 30 2011, 06:22 AM

Yeah, yeah, that's really true. If Equinox ever comes out we could add WildCATs into the mix, so we could have aliens fighting BUG SPIRITS!

Ok, the Daemonite behind me forcing me to run this campaign eventually. The fun part will be that none of my players know anything about WildCATs.

Posted by: Stahlseele May 30 2011, 09:12 AM

i have that series somewhere on one of my HDD's . . and my god, it was 90's bad at it's best o.O

Posted by: Vertaxis May 30 2011, 04:26 PM

What about corporate sponsorship or a competition format that the heroes compete in to catch criminals?

Check out the Tiger & Bunny anime. It may fit better with SR.

Posted by: Nerdynick May 30 2011, 09:48 PM

Hehe, reminds me of Dollar Bill from Watchmen. Hopefully they just don't end up the same way...


If I recall correctly, there used to be a reality TV show called Superheroes or something. The winner got their own comic or some such. I could see corps making their own superheroes and pitting them off in arenas in a new hit trid show. Heck, might even be as popular as Urban Brawl

Posted by: Makki May 31 2011, 01:18 PM

I have been trying to build The Flash for ages, but it's just not chargen possible

Posted by: Blog May 31 2011, 01:37 PM

Twist that into a Spirit with an agenda or random heirloom suddenly gone active and you could have an interesting story.

The Spirit bestows a few gifts of power on the subject and ask for some do-gooding within specific parameters and to carve a particular harmless symbol at the scenes.
Random artifact could grant about any particular magic effect or the illusion that its doing the effect to you.


Though most of the prime time 'heroes' are things like "Sapphire: Shadowrunner for Hire" or "Karl Combat Mage". Though most people would rather be Sapphire's Second Skin bodysuit then the actual character, and I'm sure there is a BTL with that very subject.

Posted by: Stahlseele May 31 2011, 01:47 PM

Huh?
High Force Spirit Power Movement for the worlds fastest augmented runner should work out close enough o.O

Posted by: CanRay May 31 2011, 03:04 PM

Completely do-able superhero character: Kick-Ass.

Slightly harder but still do-able: Hit Girl.

Typical character to do: Big Daddy.

Posted by: Dez384 May 31 2011, 04:35 PM

Most superheroes are fairly easy to replicate in Shadowrun, especially with magic spells. The only ones who would be hard to replicate are those with http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=499#comic or the unstoppable ones like Superman and The Sentry.

Posted by: Synner667 Jun 1 2011, 09:46 PM

I dimly remember someone running a SR game based off the FREELancers material.

The material was about metables/metahumans/mutants appearing in a fractured US.

The novels are quite cyberpunk and involve most of the characters doing what they do because they give a damn.

One of them is a selfstyled superhero - complete with strength, flight, bulletproof skin and corny background.

Posted by: Cain Jun 2 2011, 02:49 AM

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the real-life http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/seattle-superhero-phoenix_n_805004.html, who incidentally operates in Seattle. Vigilante, non-powered superheroes are essentially shadowrunners with an anti-crime mentality.

Posted by: Makki Jun 2 2011, 12:01 PM

So he's basically a soft Rorschach, cool. R is my favorite comic book hero off all time

Posted by: Glyph Jun 3 2011, 01:58 AM

Not even close to Rorschach. These modern "hero" guys are very, very conscious about what can potentially get them in trouble. They are not what I would call vigilantes, because, while they are eccentric, they don't really break the law. They know the kind of trouble they can get into, simply if one drug dealer they punch in the face turns around and sues them.

The Guardian Angels of New York probably come closer to vigilante-style heroes. Still, though, even though they are more confrontational, they, too, are pretty savvy (by necessity) of what constitutes lawful behavior... and what doesn't.

Most of the "superheroes" who wear costumes don't do actual crime-fighting, but support various causes or work in places like soup kitchens. Phoenix Jones is more the exception than the rule, and even he seems more hype than actual crime-fighting.

Posted by: Nerdynick Jun 3 2011, 03:20 PM

Thats probably because, in real life, its not a great idea to go around punching people in the face, no matter who they are.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 3 2011, 04:32 PM

Which is WHY we turn to comic books in the first place . .
Because SOMEWHERE it has to be right to go around punching assholes in the junk.

Posted by: Street Prophet Jun 4 2011, 05:27 PM

I've had games where our group of Runners were kind of like superheroes in the fact that every run we accepted, usually righted some wrong done to an innocent, or as close to an innocent that runs in the shadows.

Posted by: CanRay Jun 4 2011, 10:20 PM

"We provide... Leverage."

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 7 2011, 07:59 AM

Doable:
Batman
Bullseye
Daredevil
Elektra (second skin line armor for her)
The Punisher
The Question

Etc...

Posted by: Glyph Jun 7 2011, 08:58 AM

Doable, but you will need to make an adept with bioware or a heavily augmented street samurai to be able to do things that are the equivalent of what these (for the most part) mundane unaugmented people do in their comics (punch through walls, beat up 20 mooks without breaking a sweat, etc.).

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 7 2011, 10:41 AM

Well, yes, of course they would be adepts or cybered or have edges and metagenic abilities.

These would be street vigilantes getting up against gangers, criminals and the possible mafia family.

We could add the equivalent "villain" as Poison Ivy (Toxic Nature Shaman) or Killer Croc (Orc, Scaly Skin, Cannibal etc)

Posted by: CanRay Jun 7 2011, 03:17 PM

How about Aquaman?

"We could use whales. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALES!!!"

Or we could use someone useful.

Posted by: Tyro Jun 7 2011, 05:27 PM

Aquaman's incredibly useful... in an underwater setting. Anywhere else... no.

Posted by: Glyph Jun 8 2011, 02:25 AM

Aquaman is very powerful. He commands aquatic creatures. Cthulhu is an aquatic creature.

Posted by: CanRay Jun 8 2011, 02:30 AM

Cthulhu is not a being to be commanded. Or woken up. Aquaman lets him sleep. After checking under his bed for Cthulhu.

Posted by: Tyro Jun 8 2011, 08:59 PM

Ouch

Posted by: Dez384 Jun 9 2011, 02:09 AM

So is a Great Leviathan, not that a great dragon would taken orders from a metahuman.

Unles Aquaman is actually a Great Leviathan in metahuman form...

Posted by: Rubic Jun 9 2011, 03:45 AM

I've had ideas for super-hero type characters before, but they've generally been vetoed because the group thought it was just too silly. The problem, though, wasn't ME. The problem is that the group has a hard time seeing the real human tragedy engendered by some of these ideas I come up with. I don't really make these characters 'for the lulz' when I'm conceptualizing; I'm more of a fridge-horror kind of guy, to be honest.

Example:
Magical Girl archtype. Silly, right? Disassociative Personality Disorder (split personalities), Magician, a past trauma that drives the 'heroic' actions, and more than willing to murder in the name of 'justice and love.' Silly, until you realize exactly what kind of horror such a person is liable to inflict in the course of their personal crusade, and even moreso when you realize exactly the degree of horror such a person is living with. Enough tweaking would make this idea less disruptive to a runner group, and can easily fit in the shadowrun world. Laugh, ye bad people, at the dangerously mentally ill, while the less-thought-out sociopathic-itchy-trigger-finger does about the same, is less concerned with the collateral damage he causes, gets a pass.

And Cthulu has a squid-faced look, but is NOT a sea creature. It's a trans-dimensional entity beyond all rational, mortal, euclidean thought.

Posted by: Patrick Goodman Jun 9 2011, 03:48 AM

A Great Leviathan taking orders from Aquaman? Not likely.

A school of megalodons, on the other hand....

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 9 2011, 08:24 AM

Aquaman (Changeling & Adept)
Biosonar
Climate Adaption (Deep Sea)
Gills
Underwater Vision
Webbed Hands and Toes
Adept Power : Commanding Voice (Geas: Sea Animals Only)

Black Canary (Adept)
Sonic Boom
Sonic Boost 6
Sound Dampening

Sonic Boom
Cost: 0,5

The adept possesses the ability to raise his voice to extremely high decibels. So high that it can cause pain in other people. The influenced area is a 90 degree field extending from the adepts mouth for magicratingx2 meters. Anyone inside this area is affected. If the gamemaster chooses anyone on the edge of the area can make a Reaction(2) test to try and get out of range. The base damage of the attack is 4S and the adept makes a Body+Magic test to try and increase the damage. The target(s) resist with rolling Body and base damage is modified if they are behind cover. No armor applies, but sound dampeners do give some protection (See page xx). If the adept lacks sound dampeners (or the equivalent adept ability) he takes full modified damage himself. With sound dampeners he takes no damage at all. The attack is a Complex Action and follows the normal rules for sound damage on page 165 in Street Magic.

Sonic Boost
Cost: 0.25 per level
Each level of this power increases the base attack of Sonic Boom by one.

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 9 2011, 08:39 AM

Old School Batman
Old School Batman was more of a detective in tights with a few gadgets before he became the ultimate ninja of doom dark knight that cannot be done in SR without breaking a lot of plausibility barriers (like the time he disarmed a nuke, in flight, after being teleported to it…)
Born Rich 10
Local Fame (Gotham or city of operation) 10
Priviliged Family Name 5
SINner (Secret identity -10
Trust Fund (Secret identity) 10
Intolerance (Firearms) -10 (Moderate)
Obsession (Fight Crime) -10

Add primarily Throwing and Melee skills and some good maneuvers, projectile weapon for the grappling hook and a groundcraft skill.
Disguise (Theatrical)
Intimidation (Physical)
With the old “creature of the night” approach a modified ruthenium suit for invisibility might help him since he cant stop bullets.

Posted by: toturi Jun 9 2011, 08:41 AM

Don't worry. Aquaman has Chuck Norris on his speed dial.


But still vulnerable to a Chuck Norris Roundhouse Kick ™. It doesn't matter what it is, it still dies to a CNRK ™.

Oh wait, did I mention that Chuck Norris is a superhero?

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jun 9 2011, 11:00 AM

I think Batman is the second level of trust fund.

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 9 2011, 12:23 PM

Yea I know, I didnt have the quality points.

But batman is a fictional figure and your FlyingRatMan wouldnt want to make the DC Megacorp go after him with copyright infringement claims now would you? Your version would not BE rich, he'd just be well to do.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jun 9 2011, 01:34 PM

*Laugh* I'm not being picky, i just happen to be building a ghoul very loosely based on the batman concept (lost father, swore to use his resources a better place, runs so he can take a more personal hand in things) so the point costs were mentally fresh.

Posted by: Rubic Jun 9 2011, 02:13 PM

oh, TOTALLY!

Posted by: Tyro Jun 9 2011, 07:10 PM

*groan*

Please don't turn this into the old-school WoW Barrens. I can't STAND CN.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 9 2011, 09:26 PM

Yeah, he is WAY overhyped...

Posted by: Tyro Jun 9 2011, 09:27 PM

You can say that again. I used to practice Jeet Kune Do (Bruce Lee's MMA style), and I learned a bit about him. He really isn't much compared to, say, the Machado brothers or John Will.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 9 2011, 09:50 PM

JKD... Nice...

Posted by: Tyro Jun 9 2011, 09:52 PM

I was fortunate enough to go to two of John Will's workshops when he was visiting the US. Incredible guy. One of the workshops also starred David Meyer. For those of you who don't know, John Will was the first Caucasian to ever win the world Penjak-Silat tournament, and is also a world-class BJJ instructor.

Posted by: Cain Jun 10 2011, 07:14 AM

Oh, gods....

Okay, not knowing who your instructor was, I can tell you that there are basically two camps of Bruce Lee descendants. There are the Classic bunch, who try and preserve as much of Bruce's original teachings as possible. And there's the Concepts camp, that basically throws all his techniques out the window and just teach principles of combat. Bruce himself only had a handful of students, many of who went on to teach their own stuff under the name of JKD, but really all this comes down to the only three certified instructors: Taky Kimura, James Lee, and Dan Inosanto.

There's many ongoing flamewars over which camp is better and holds more true to Bruce's ideals. I'm firmly in the Classics side, but that's beside the point. What matters is that Bruce Lee was the top martial artist of his time, bar none. He beat the crap out of Chuck Norris. He revolutionized the way martial arts is viewed and taught. He is the direct father of the modern MMA concept. He's responsible for the "toolbox" concept central to MMA and taught in just about every martial arts school in the US nowadays: The techniques you learn are your tools. Use the right one for the right situation, and try not to use the wrong one.

Not only was Bruce a big deal back then, his stuff is a big deal right now. Without him and Ed Parker, it's highly unlikely that martial arts would even be popular in the USA today. He was not only a top-notch fighter, he was pretty much the first person to publicly mix and match styles to get to what works. Sure, the Bruce of the 60's wouldn't have modern techniques on his side-- but if he were alive and fighting today, you better believe he would have adapted quickly. He really was-- and is-- that big of a deal. Given access to newer evolutions in techniques, Bruce in his prime would have eaten the Machado brothers for lunch.

How do I know all this? For starters, I know Taky and Andy Kimura personally-- I almost went to Andy's first wedding. I've trained with James DeMile and Patrick Strong, and had coffee with Jesse Glover. Bruce influenced a lot of things, and he was the real deal. No single person has contributed so much to martial arts in recent history. In short, he *is* that much.

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 10 2011, 09:01 AM

Ooh, so he doesnt just beat up the bad guys, he eats them too?

Posted by: The Jopp Jun 10 2011, 09:24 AM

One can really make a lot of street level range of 'heroes' or villains with the SR ruleset, you just have to remember that they will go 'splat' if they go up against heavy opposition.

Daredevil don't go fighting the Hulk for example - he would go up against an entire gang of troll gangers or go-gang bikers though.

Black Widow would be able to have her stun bracer in the form of a wrist mounted tazer or dart gun with a lot of bells and whistles for example.

If one would want to go that way I'd count Galactos as a Horror that can survive deep space but need an entire worlds manasphere in order to travel to a new world (making other horrors somewhat puny).

Posted by: Rubic Jun 10 2011, 03:14 PM

The only problem I have with this is that it seems EVERY superhero's got Galactus as a notch on their belt, give or take.

Posted by: CanRay Jun 10 2011, 03:21 PM

I don't think The Great Lakes Avengers have yet...

Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 10 2011, 03:52 PM

Squirrel Girl beat Galactus . .

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 10 2011, 03:59 PM

Squirrel Girl?

Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 10 2011, 04:01 PM

Squirrel Girl . .
Oh, my bad, it wasn't galactus(yet) but she has beaten, as of yet:
Thus far, Squirrel Girl has beaten:
Doctor Doom[12]
Mandarin[5]
Giganto[5]
MODOK[5]
Thanos[5]
Terrax[5]
Bug-Eyed Voice[1]
Bi-Beast[6]
Deadpool[7]
Pluto[8]
Fin Fang Foom[9]
Baron Mordo[9]
Korvac[9]
Ego the Living Planet[9]

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 10 2011, 04:12 PM

Wow...

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Jun 10 2011, 05:54 PM

We'll see how it goes in play, but i'm expecting that will add to his fearsome reputation.

Posted by: Tyro Jun 10 2011, 06:05 PM

My instructor was one of James DeMile's students. I left mostly because his teaching style and my learning style didn't mesh, and also because his focus was too far into sport for my liking.

Posted by: CanRay Jun 10 2011, 06:38 PM

In her most recent issues where she meets Doctor Doom, he doesn't even fight her. He just sighs and does whatever she demands. Otherwise her defeats of him would be much, much higher.

Yes, she's that bad ass.

And the Fantastic Four still don't want her on the team.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 10 2011, 06:51 PM

do you blame them? <.<

Posted by: CanRay Jun 10 2011, 06:55 PM

Considering how often Doom tries to step up on them, yes. If they had her, he'd just show up, apologize for whatever his plan was, and give them a nice Latverian Gift Basket (Eighteen different types of sausage! And almost as many cheeses!).

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 10 2011, 07:05 PM

Heh... Interesting...

Posted by: Rubic Jun 10 2011, 07:10 PM

Squirrel Girl could NOT be effectively made in Shadowrun. Her speculated power is that her chances of success in any endeavor are inversely proportional to how overpowering her opposition is, and only when fought off camera. Thus, her chances of defeating Galactus/Horrors from Beyond are a virtual certainty while a common street ganger would probably gack her without wasting a single shot. Last I checked, she's become a nanny for a hero group.

Posted by: Cain Jun 10 2011, 09:04 PM

As much as I love James DeMile's stuff, he is definitely not involved in the JKD aspects of the Bruce Lee legacy. He teaches his own thing, and does not pretend that it's Jeet Kune Do in any way. The same's true for Jesse Glover. Taky and Andy have the right to call their stuff JKD, but prefer to use the original name, Jun Fan. If you were studying with one of James DeMile's students, unless he had another instructor, you were not being taught Jeet Kune Do from any of the acknowledged lineages. You'd still be learning Bruce Lee techniques and philosophy, but DeMile has publicly separated himself from the JKD brand name.

I'm sorry you and your instructor didn't mesh. That can sour anyone on any art. Still, that doesn't mean that Bruce's original concepts and techniques don't work, or that if Bruce were alive today and in his fighting prime, he could eat just about everyone else alive.

Posted by: Nerdynick Jun 13 2011, 11:35 PM

Okay so I'm starting to lay out the framework for this campaign and I'm wondering, were it your campaign, would you have a "supervillian" antagonist, or would you keep it realistic and have the party going up against elite troops of high-level organizations? In other words, is the boss fight against a guy in a cape or Red Samurai/cyberzombies/Tir Ghosts/whatever?

Posted by: CanRay Jun 13 2011, 11:52 PM

Elijah Price: "Now that we know who you are... I know who I am. I'm not a mistake! It all makes sense. In a comic, you know how you can tell who the arch-villain's going to be? He's the exact opposite of the hero, and most time's they're friends, like you and me. I should've known way back when. You know why, David? Because of the kids. They called me Mr. Glass." - Unbreakable

Only Samuel L. Jackson can take a brittle and easily broken man with a cane/in a wheelchair and turn him into badass of the month!

The most likely "Supervillian" antagonist for Shadowrun would be "The Man" or "Whitey" (I guess that would be "Humey" in Shadowrun.). Considering the genre, and the way storylines are set up in Cyberpunk and Shadowrun, it's likely a Mr. Johnson that's been genetically and surgically altered for superior intelligence (In(meta)human Intuition and Logic!) that went horribly wrong and also released all the evil's that dwell within all men's souls. Greed, ambition, lust, the traditional reasons for being what is socially seen as a "Villain". Or a politician. But I repeat myself. Or, more likely, the person behind Mr. Johnson who pulls the strings of the puppetmaster himself.

The way I'd set it up (If I were writing/running this) is that the protagonist "Superhero" would end up having to face all of his enemies and allies (Contacts) at the same time as opponents, and be unable to hold back while still being able to live. All the while, the smug bastard sits far away, completely safe, with an iron-clad alibi.

"Another glass of wine, Mr. Governor? Mayors? Admiral?"