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Posted by: Abdul Alhazred Jun 22 2011, 09:05 AM

I have played SR3 on #s-run on IRC, and on the various SR MUSHs (Detroit, Seattle, Germany). My wife and I are going to Gencon in August and are trying out one of the Shadowrun Missions (CMP 2011-06 – TRO 2073). I'm still toying with character ideas but leaning toward making a Hacker. (Unsure if that would be fun in a con enviroment or not)

My REAL problem lies in what my beautiful wife wants to play. This will truly be her first time playing a SR game and not just hear me rant about it.
She traditionally plays Paladin characters in Fantasy settings. She likes a clearly defined Archetype / Class role. She wants to know what to do and go for it. I mentioned about her being the Brute / Tank and being a troll but she shot me down pretty fast with any mention of playing a Troll metatype.

So I've come to Dumpshock and asking for advice on what would be good for her first run through the world of SR - with an empathise on what would rock her socks at the Missions Con game.

I'm really hopping it will be an experience she enjoys and we will sign up for more of the Missions at Gencon.

Posted by: Crazy Ivan Jun 22 2011, 04:25 PM

Lucky- wish I could go to GenCon, but oh well. Anyways, my wife is very similar, though she traditionally favors the rogue style classes. For simplicity and such, my wifes first character she "built" was an adept with a strong stealth focus and a sniping style. Afterwards, her first character that she built herself with minimal input from me was a street samurai focused on not killing (I was shocked, then the character has been put to devastating effect). This worked for her for a few reasons-

1. With the title of the archtype, there is a specific code of behavior implied. If she's particular to the paladin mindset as far as code of behavior, then that works. If she favors the face part of a paladin...well, I don't know how well faces work at Con-events...
2. With the right combination of cyberware, you can build a fairly effective character that requires minimal book-keeping and referencing (i.e. wired reflexes, maybe some cybereyes, and a shock-hand/implanted taser) as opposed to the stuff that is a pain to constantly monitor and add in when it applies (the bone lacing, cyberlimbs, etc. etc.).
3. And last of all, street samurai let you go nuts with the options. That does hold a large appeal with new beginners in my experience.

Posted by: DWC Jun 22 2011, 04:33 PM

I've firmly become of the opinion the Face is the go-to choice for bringing people into Shadowrun. It let's them ease into the mechanics at their own pace while still enjoying participating and not having to deal with everyone else telling them how their charact " should" work. Besides, coming from playing a charismatic leader like the iconic paladin, being one of the de facto spokespeople for the group should be pretty straightforward.

If she's not into it after one round, Missions does let her completely remake the character into a cracked-out speed samurai killing machine.

As for how much fun playing a hacker at a con is, most of that comes down to how well the GM knows the SR4A matrix mechanics. It could be a blast, or it could kind of blow.

Either way, go for it, and see you in Indy.

Posted by: Crazy Ivan Jun 22 2011, 04:43 PM

Face style characters in a new system have always kind of floundered in my experience. But its fully possible it may just be my experience.

Posted by: suoq Jun 22 2011, 04:57 PM

I'd build a face, but add up the dice for her in advance. Add up the dice in anything you think she's likely to throw dice in.
"4 influence + 7 charisma + 3 Kinesics + 3 Pheremones = 17 dice (+2 (19) with first impression)"

Pick up one simple weapon, even a Predator, and fill it with Stick and Shock and make her solid with it. The goal here is to contribute, not be the hero.

Adding the stealth group as well, so that she's not excluded from anything. Staying behind gets boring.

Posted by: Chance359 Jun 22 2011, 07:25 PM

I'm gonna agree with suoq about the explained dice pools. I'd suggest going with a generalist sam/face build. That way she'll have plenty of chances to contribute to the team.

Posted by: Udoshi Jun 22 2011, 07:42 PM

I'm going to have to agree with everyone here suoq and chance. A sammy/face seems about right. I'd also suggest expanding the list of dice pool totals to include combat and other typical rolls - it will make things go much smoother.

Most likely, you want to go Elf(like a human, with ears!), because its about as polar opposite of a troll as you can get, and the stats help what you're trying to do.

Samurai/face, but put more emphasis on the Samurai aspect than the Street aspect. Less of a killing machine, more of an honorable and trustworthy negotiator, who is also an honorable warrior. Think about the Code of Conduct quality(rc 99). I'm not sure its allowed for missions, being optional sidebar material, but it has some good ideas.

I'd recommend the hammerli 620s over the predator - just because not having to explain recoil when the shooting starts makes things go a bit smoother. Or any gun with a point of built in RC, really.

I think the biggest question is whether you want to use Ware or Adepthood for your wife's character.

Posted by: Bushw4cker Jun 22 2011, 08:33 PM

She could just play a Paladin....


Attributes
Body 4
Agility 4
Reaction 4(6)
Strength 4
Charisma 4
Intuition 2
Logic 2
Willpower 4
Edge 2
Essence 6
Magic 5
Initiative 6(
Initiative Passes 1(3)

Positive Qualities
Guts
Mystic Adept (Christian)
First Impression
Resistance to Pathogens/Toxins

Negative Qualities
Sensitive System
Delusion (Paladin)
Distinctive Style
Gremlins

Adept Powers
Commanding Voice
Improved Reflexes-2
Iron Will

Skills
Blades 4
Banishing 4
Leadership 4
Spellcasting 4
Counterspelling 4
Summoning 4
Dodge 4
Athletics Group 3

Weapons
+2 Claymore (Foci)

Armor
Chain Shirt

Spells
Heal
Detect Enemies
Cure Disease
Analyze Truth

Haven't added up BP points..so might be over/under

I did dungeon run with my players, took a D&D adventure and made it into shadowrun to get my players used to combat..

Posted by: Mayhem_2006 Jun 22 2011, 11:07 PM

I quite like adept as a build for newbies.

Harder to create perhaps, but if you chose mostly static powers its really simple to play, without the intimidation factor of lots of weird sounding implants.

Go with high stat, low skill and it becomes quite easy to modify later on - 7 AG is fairly easy to pull of for an elf adept, then low ranking skills in a few guns, melee and unarmed, plus stealth, gives you a fairly effective character that, after one adventure can easily be channelled in the direction of the skills that seemed most fun as low skills don't cost much karma to upgrade (especially with specialisations).

Posted by: Abdul Alhazred Jun 23 2011, 10:01 AM

Thank you guys for the positive replies. I will sit down with her this weekend and build her character - then post it here to see if I've messed it up right and proper. Bushw4cker made me laugh as his build was... an actual Fantasy Pali

Hacker might be a problem in a Con game ? That can be understandable. At least not as bad as Deckers were in SR3... oi.

Building a Troll Soak Tank might be fun but the dice are capped at 20 with the optional rules for the Missions.

That leaves Gunbunny, or a Mage. I'll leave it to you chaps to steer me in the right direction there. You've been fantastic so far !

Posted by: Bushw4cker Jun 23 2011, 01:26 PM

I'd go with an aspected mage (sorcerer) especially for a beginning player.

Posted by: Bushw4cker Jun 23 2011, 02:10 PM

Sorcerer Build (well. a good start anyways...)


Attributes
Body 2
Agility 4
Reaction 4
Strength 2
Charisma 5
Intuition 3
Logic 3
Willpower 5
Edge 2
Essence 4
Magic 5
Initiative 7
Initiative Passes 1

Skills
Con 4
Spellcasting 6
Counterspelling 4
Dodge 4
Etiquette 2
Clubs 2
Blades 2

Positive Qualities
Magician 15

Negative Qualities
Condition Geas (No Armor)
Gesture Geas
Aspected Mage (Sorcerer)

Level 1 Spells
Mage Armor (Armor)
Identify (Analyze Device)
Sleep (Stunball)
Charm Person (Control Thoughts)

Level 2 Spells
Mirror Image (Double Image)
Touch of Idiocy (Decrease Logic)
Invisibility (Invisibility)

Level 3 Spells
Fireball (Fireball)
Slow (Decrease Agility)
Haste (Increase Reflexes)

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 23 2011, 02:21 PM

Pretty sure that a Condition Geas for "No Armor" will also not allow the Armor Spell, since it acts as, you know, Armor...
Your Con Skill has no rating...

Posted by: Mayhem_2006 Jun 23 2011, 05:05 PM

I tend to shy away from magic for new players, which means in this instance I'd go with a physical adept gunbunny with some breaking-and-entering skills for a touch of variety.

Posted by: Bushw4cker Jun 23 2011, 06:58 PM

That's why I suggested Aspected Mage

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 23 2011, 07:52 PM

How does an Aspected Sorceror and "I tend to shy away from Magic" go together? Color me a bit confused here... Shying away from magic eliminates the Aspected Sorceror at the outset.

Posted by: Udoshi Jun 23 2011, 08:43 PM

I'm fairly sure you can get a troll with a natural body of above 10 fairly easily.
It may, however, be rather expensive to do so.

Since the soak test is Body+Armor, how does that work? Does armor count towards the dice pool limit? What about a trolls build in point of natural armor?

Posted by: Bushw4cker Jun 23 2011, 08:53 PM

Here's A serious attempt at an Aspected Magician, that would be good and Fun for a starting Player

Attributes (240BP)
Body 2
Agility 3
Reaction 4
Strength 2
Charisma 5
Intuition 4
Logic 3
Willpower 5
Edge 2
Essence 6
Magic 5
Initiative 8
Initiative Passes 1

Positive Qualities (20BP)
Magician (Shaman)
Mentor Spirit (Trickster)
+2 dice for Illusion Spells
+2 dice for Con Tests

Negative Qualities (35BP)
Aspected Magician (Sorcerer)
Thrillseeker
Sensitive System
Gremlins-2

Skills (108BP)
Dodge 4
Perception 4
Spellcasting 6
Counterspelling 4
Unarmed Combat 2
Infiltration 2
*Con 2(4)
*Etiquette 2
*Leadership 2
*Negotiation 2

Knowledge Skills (21Free)
Magical Theory 5
Trid Shows 4
Local Area Knowledge 4
Local Street Gangs 3

Language Skills
English N
Japanese 3
German 2

Armor (500¥)
Armor Clothing Ballistic-4 Impact-0

Gear (5395¥)
Magical Lodge (Rating 6)
Contacts (Low Light Vision, Image Link)
Fake SIN (Rating 2)
*Illusion Spell Fetish (Trid Phantasm)
Smoke Grenade
Flashbang Grenade
1 dose eX

Foci (5BP) (80000¥)
Sustaining Focus (Rating 3)
Power Focus (Rating 2)

Spells (33BP)
Orgasm
Alter Memory
Increase Reflexes
Area Thought Recognition
Influence
Improved Invisibility
Heal
Fashion
Stunbolt
Trid Phantasm*
Levitate
*Fetish Required

Contacts (11BP)
Talismonger Connect-3 Loyalty-3
Fixer Connect-3 Loyalty-2

Commlink (3100¥)
Novatech Airware w/ Iris Orb OS
Response-3 System-3
Signal-3 Firewall-3
Resident Program (Analyze-3)
Resident Program (Encrypt-3)
ARC-Terminate Connection

Common Use Programs
Analyze-3 Command-2 Encrypt-3
Browse-3 Edit-3 Scan-3

Low Lifestyle (1 Month Paid) (1000¥)

Resources (18BP)
spent (89995/90000¥)

Casting Increased Reflexes and using Sustaining Focus, can make this character quite formidable.

Posted by: Ryu Jun 23 2011, 09:02 PM

I´d make a samurai with as few situational mods from ware as possible. Muscle Aug/Toner, Synthacardium, some sort of IP-granting ware, Cybereyes/Ears. The influence group and high natural charisma will take care of the face angle. I have no convention experience (laugh if you must), so I can´t tell if a broad network of contacts tends to be rewarded. It surely offers many hooks for getting new players involved.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 23 2011, 09:16 PM

You do realize that you do not have a Magic of 7, Right? The Power Focus does not add to Magic...

Posted by: Bushw4cker Jun 23 2011, 09:33 PM

For most tests it's like adding to magic.
if you want to be picky, Mentor spirit doesn't add to skill rating, just adds dice 8P

Power Foci
Power foci are the most potent and treasured of all. Possession of a
power focus feeds a magician’s Magic directly, making her efforts more
powerful in all forms of magical ability. A power focus adds its Force
to all tests in which the magician’s Magic is included. A single power
focus can increase a magician’s ability to cast spells, call on and control
spirits, and bypass astral barriers. A power focus does not help in
Counterspelling a hostile spell as it is cast, nor can it duplicate the
unique ability of a weapon focus.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 23 2011, 09:46 PM

No, it is NOT the same. It has no impact on the Character's Magic Rating what so ever. It does not affect Spell Force Caps, nor Summoning Caps. All a Power Focus does is add its rating in Dice to all things that use the Magic Rating in their tests. In Previous Editions, this was not the case, as a Power Focus added Directly to the Magic Rating of the User.

And there is no need to be Picky. Mentor Spirit DOES NOT add to a Skill rating, it only adds Dice. So why do we need to be picky?

Posted by: Bushw4cker Jun 23 2011, 09:55 PM

It's amazing what I can still learn about Shadowrun, just when I think I have magic system down. I didn't know that Power Foci had no effect on Overcasting ability. Your Right I was thinking 3rd ed.. sigh

Still it's an good starting character for newbie )

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 23 2011, 10:13 PM

Yep, not bad at all, even if the OP does steer away from magical characters for Newbs...

Posted by: ElFenrir Jun 24 2011, 05:39 PM

I'd personally say a sorta face/gunner type. First off, guns are more effective than melee in this world, and a new player I think would benefit more from a nice pistol than worrying about minmaxing a melee character(who tend to work better with more advanced builds, I found.)

Face-type will show that it's often the smooth talking and not the brute force that can get the best results in this world. The guns would make a nice backup, IMO(and plus, with a Paladin type? Paladins tend to be quite social and good with people, and she can even use gel rounds, for nonlethal attacks, also good in this world.

You can make a very decent combo of face/gunner(as an elf in particular, with the bonuses).

Maybe something like:

Elf(30 BP)

Attributes(210 BP)

B: 3
A: 5
R: 3
S: 2
C: 6
I: 4
L: 3
W: 4
E: 3

Active Skills(136)

Negotation: 5
Con: 4
Etiquette: 5

Stealth Skill Group: 2

Pistols(Semi-Automatics): 3(+2)
SMGs or Longarms(per preference): 3

Perception: 3
Dodge(Ranged): 3(+2)

Pilot Ground Craft: 2

Knowledge/Language skills: 21 points for fleshing out character.

24 BPs left for resources/contacts. May need to drop something(maybe go down to an Edge or 2, or perhaps take a negative quality.)

And go from there. Suggest ware like a Smarlink, Eye mods, perhaps some Pheremones, a level of Wired Reflexes. Don't go crazy into the other books; just stick to SR4A and basic, but solid ware.

This skillset allows her to do a lot of social stuff, plus decent shooty stuff on top of it(the nice Agility and skill ratings, with a Smarlink, will give a fair amount.) Nice Dodge skill for if needed, some Stealth abilities to give an array of those(as Stealth stuff is, naturally, useful in this world.) A driving skill caps it off.

IMO, this character would be a fitting first try for someone; nothing too complex and useful skills for the world that doesn't need a whole lot of minmaxing.

Posted by: Ryu Jun 25 2011, 08:19 AM

I´ll borrow some of ElFenrir´s formatting:

Orc (20 BP)
Attributes (200 BP)

B: 5
A: 4 (6)
R: 3 (4)
S: 5 (7)
C: 4
I: 5
L: 2
W: 3
E: 3

Active Skills(130)

Athletics Skill Group 1 (+3)
Influence Skill Group 4
Stealth Skill Group 3
Firearms Skill Group 2

Perception: 5
Pilot Ground Craft (Bike or Car +2): 2

50 BP for Ressources and Contacts before Qualities.

Wishlist Bioware: Muscle Aug/Toner 2, Synthacardium 3
Wishlist Cyberware: High-end Cybereyes, some Cyberears, Wired Reflexes I

Try to spend 20 BP on various contacts.