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Posted by: Marvelous Marvin Jul 26 2011, 12:34 AM

I don't usually see things the way others do. I don't know if its because my mind insists on finding a different way of looking at things on purpose, or it its just wired all funky. But it does make me very useful at finding the problems other didn't see and the solution others would have never considered.

I've always had a problem with how the Init Passes were handled in the book. All the fluff describes it as moving faster, sooner, and more often. But the rules have everyone acting on pass 1, which seems to be inconsistent with the fluff.

So I devised this solution to my dilemma. I think of the round as divided into 7 passes. Characters with 4 passes act on passes 1, 3, 5, & 7. Characters with 3 passes act on 2, 4, & 6. While those with 2 act on 3 & 5, and those with just one act on pass 4.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fEwbL9iaTBdc8d_12RGKVA?feat=directlink

Posted by: Makki Jul 26 2011, 12:38 AM

well, you're not the first one. There have been several suggestion like yours in the past. search function will find them.

The main issue with the system as it is, is that 3th ed was unfair as low-initiative chars sometimes never got their chance to act. 4th ed let's everyone act once. It's more of a fairness and fun rule.

Posted by: Teulisch Jul 26 2011, 03:08 AM

so how do you deal with 5 actions in the matrix? 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7? rather than seven, it may make more sense to use 5 passes (the maximum that can happen). Put normal at 3 and work from there. (2 and 4 with wired 1, 1/3/5 with wired 2, 1/2/4/5 with wired 3).

this is very similar to how Hero works, except that hero works with 12 passes and speed is from 1 to 12 (with 4 as a normal human maximum, 2 being average).

Posted by: Cain Jul 26 2011, 03:14 AM

Yeah, that's more of a SR2e problem. The speed samurai would finish the entire battle before the low initiative characters got to move. So, combat would start, and the mage player would leave for a cigarette, knowing his turn would never come up. SR3 kinda fixed that, since you could only go once before everyone else went. That led to everyone taking their turn, then the mage player leaving for a cigarette knowing he would never have a second turn. That problem still exists in SR4.5, and I haven't figured out how to fix it short of making sure everyone has IP boosters.

Posted by: pbangarth Jul 26 2011, 04:23 AM

QUOTE (Marvelous Marvin @ Jul 25 2011, 07:34 PM)

Posted by: Fyndhal Jul 26 2011, 04:49 AM

QUOTE (Marvelous Marvin @ Jul 25 2011, 08:34 PM)

Posted by: Glyph Jul 26 2011, 07:08 AM

Initiative was done similarly to that in SR2, and it didn't work very well. The biggest problem, as others have pointed out, was that high-speed characters were dominant to the point that other characters didn't even get a chance to do anything before the combat was over. SR3 fixed it, a bit cumbersomely. SR4 is close to SR3 - the high-speed characters go first, but only one action. With the introduction of full defense as an interrupt action, and with defenders no longer potentially hurting their attackers in melee combat, though, initiative passes became a bit more important. While SR4 has its flaws, I actually like their initiative system.

Posted by: The Jopp Jul 26 2011, 07:14 AM

My take on initiative is not that people move faster but that their reaction time is faster. Their brain is superfast, not their bodies.

It's essentially bullet time. You perceive the world in slow motion.

SR4 Initiative works fairly well.

Posted by: Cain Jul 26 2011, 07:26 AM

Gah, I hated the old Champions system. If you didn't have a good Speed score, you were pretty much out of the combat.

That's what I don't like about the proposed fix, it puts slower characters out of the fight. They go out for a cigarette, while the speed sams handle everything.

Posted by: Aerospider Jul 26 2011, 11:33 AM

QUOTE (The Jopp @ Jul 26 2011, 08:14 AM)