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Posted by: Neurosis Aug 20 2011, 01:12 AM

Alright, so the purpose of this thread is to propose a matchup between any two established canonical Shadowrun NPCs. The rules are as follows:

1) The fight is a bareknuckle brawl. I don't care what the character's shticks are, it is NOT a matrix duel, a firefight, or an astral battle. It is a fist fight. So wired reflexes, adept powers, and increase ability or combat sense spells are fine, but bone spurs and shock hands are not, nor is manabolt et al. The characters are actually punching each other with their fists.
2) In order to prevent the conversation from degenerating into *numbers*, AT LEAST ONE OF THE COMBATANTS MUST STILL HAVE NO OFFICIAL GAME STATISTICS IN ANY FORM AT THE TIME OF POSTING.
This will give us something to speculate about.
3) Their fighting does not have to make any in-universe sense, but if there is some skewed POV by which it does, all the better.
4) Try, within a reasonable degree, to stick to NPCs everyone has heard of.
5) Try to stick with a reasonably even match. (i.e. Argent vs. Ryan Mercury, not Argent vs. Wilhemina Graff-Beloit. Note that the first matchup violates rule number two.)
6) Corporeal metahumans only.

This being dumpshock, if someone hasn't come up with a matchup to debate within "like five minutes" I'll throw out an idea myself to get this party started.

MATCH ONE: DAMIEN KNIGHT VS. RICHARD VILLIERS.

Posted by: Critias Aug 20 2011, 01:15 AM

Dragonslayer Mentor Spirit vs. Wolf Mentor Spirit, cage match. Round one, fight!

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 20 2011, 01:25 AM

I definitely do have the impression that all Mentor Spirits are evenly matched (even if their benefits are not). But thanks, Rusty, for reminding me of a rule I forgot!

Posted by: CanRay Aug 20 2011, 02:25 AM

Wolf (From "Wolf and Raven") Vs. Wolf (From "Lone Wolf").

Kellan Colt Vs. Sam "Twist" Verner.

Neil The Ork Barbarian Vs. Slade The Sniper.

Lofwyr Vs. Aden. (Both in Metahuman Form), with Ghostwalker (*NOT* In Metahuman form) or the Ancestor Spirit of Mohammad Ali refereeing. (Honestly, the guy will still stare you down today, in his current physical condition, and claim he's still the best, and you know he. Means. Every. Word.).

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 20 2011, 02:58 AM

1) Not enough data.

2) Kellan Colt gets this one. Sam just is not the type to hit a girl. His hesitation would be his downfall, and she would make a girl out of him.

3) Neither exists?

4) Really tough call. My inclination is to say Lofwyr, as he wants it more, but I'm open to other opinions.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 20 2011, 03:13 AM

1) More than enough data. One's a street kid trained by Kid Stealth, the other has Lone Star training and Skillwires and has been in a street gang. It'd be a good fight! Or do you mean the fact that both books are OOP and most of the kids here with their CommLinks and Nanopaste Trodes wouldn't understand who I'm talking about. ... And when the hell did I start channeling Bull?

2) Can't really argue this one...

3) So? You know back in the '50s Simsense Fans were asking the question. There's probably plans for the flick already in LA. (Coming soon, from Horizon!)

4) Yeah, but Lofwyr has mostly been all business and talk. Aden has the reputation for destruction (Just ask the people of Tehran. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, too soon?). So it'd be a good smack-down, drag-on fight, I think.

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 20 2011, 03:43 AM

Don't forget that Lofwyr has already kicked another dragon's ass in hand to hand (or should that be tooth to claw) personal combat. (I know Aden destroyed a CITY, but he had his "magical fire breath" for that.)

Posted by: PeteThe1 Aug 20 2011, 04:08 AM

We're going bare-knuckle no magic though, so I'd have to bet on Aden. Lofwyr is probably smarter, more magically powerful, and certainly more ruthless and likely to cheat (get a big folding chair maybe), but if we kept it fair Aden seems more flat-out brutal. Plus sirrushes are a little faster than western dragons, and speed kills.

How about Damien Knight vs Richard Villiers?

Posted by: CanRay Aug 20 2011, 04:16 AM

Knight Vs. Villiers I would pay to see.

Knight would get it, however. Military Experience and Training...

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Aug 20 2011, 04:21 AM

Knight would win, but be disqualified because it was actually one of his body doubles.

Posted by: Critias Aug 20 2011, 04:25 AM

1) I'd bet on Wolf, of Wolf and Raven fame, mostly because magic is allowed. Hand to hand (or tooth to claw), no guns? That's where Wolf shines (and snarls, and bites). It won't be pretty, but I think he'd get the job done.

2) +1 for Kellan, much as it pains me to say it. Both of them have some plot armor, sure, but she's still got her magic and has the "Sam tends to hesitate in a fight sometimes" factor going and last I recall her adept boyfriend, the ex-Ancient (who was still somehow a character I'm not fond of, despite fitting all my favorite cliches) was teaching her how to fight.

3) Neil the Ork Barbarian, hands down. It's "not a firefight," according to the rules, and "not a firefight" is where Neil shines (and snarls, and bites). Of course, really, it just comes down to whose movie it is...

4) Lofwyr. Unless I'm totally misremembering, it's been pretty heavily insinuated that he's the most physically (not just financially) powerful of the Greats. Ghostwalker is better with spirits, Hestaby can out-cast him, Dunkie was better at playing with his food...but I seem to recall Lofwyr always being described as just brawny, even compared to other Greats. In this sort of physical match, I think he'd pull a win. But whoooo, boy, would I want to be watching from far, far, away.

Posted by: PeteThe1 Aug 20 2011, 04:28 AM

Yeah but he left the military 40 years ago. And he was Air Force, known more for their brains over brawn. I agree I'd bet on Knight as well but there's just something extra vicious about Villiers that makes me think it wouldn't be quite so easy. Knight made his fortune by being brilliant and making the right friends. Villiers made his by murdering his first set of business partners (Matrix Systems) and sabotaging his second set (Fuchi). Spider-sense says Knight would have to work for it. Maybe Miles Lanier distracts the ref while Villiers gets in a low blow?

Gingerbread Crew vs Wrecking Crew?

Posted by: CanRay Aug 20 2011, 04:29 AM

1) Yeah, my bet too.

2) Kellan's boyfriend taught her so well that she RIPPED HIS ARMS OFF.

3) Actually, they'll probably fight to a draw, then Ninjas, then power of friendship.

4) We haven't seen enough of Aden to know about him/her abilities. Also, remember: Metahuman form. Draconic strength doesn't necessarily transfer over.

Posted by: Saint Hallow Aug 20 2011, 04:34 AM

1. Wolf would go all hairy & kick the crap outta the undercover guy.

2. Which version of "Twist" are we talking here? Cause he won't kill, doesn't mean he won't get violent. Same Verner proved how effective Narcojet can be. In a fistfight, Colt would go for a nut shot, but Verner banged Sally Tsung so his junk has gone through some tough stuff.

3. Neil... cause classics should always win. Plus, this is a fistfight.

4. Hmm... need to think on this.

Posted by: Critias Aug 20 2011, 05:02 AM

Heh, really? Maybe I should've made myself start (and finish) that third book. At least it sounds like stuff happened in it.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 20 2011, 05:26 AM

It's in Street Legends, actually. Stuff still didn't happen in the trilogy.

I feel like I missed the interesting stuff of her story now.

On the flipside, I hate the character less now. Say what you will about CGL, they did that better than WizKids.

Posted by: Critias Aug 20 2011, 05:45 AM

Ah. Hers wasn't one of the chapters I helped proof for SL, and I've been scrambling so much post-GenCon I still haven't been able to sit down and just read it, chapter to chapter, to enjoy (instead of as work).

It still amazes me, more than anything else about her series of books (the pair I read, at least), how it is they managed to make a swaggering, street-tough, adept of an Ancients member that I didn't immediately like. I mean, if they'd made him an Urban Brawler, too, maybe they would've touched on one more of my, y'know, Shadowrun favorite things...but I still scratch my head over it. The guy should've been so right up my alley, he single-handedly could've made me like the series. But it someone still didn't work.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 20 2011, 05:47 AM

If it wasn't for her being in Street Legends, I'd suggest the whole trilogy be forgotten completely. Or treated like "Dead Air", and "It was all a Simsense flick.".

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 20 2011, 07:38 AM

Here's my take. Damien Knight could punch Richard Villiers' face in half without breaking a sweat.

Damien Knight is something that Villiers is not and had never been; a soldier, through and through. His company is more WarLike than NeoNET. And when the shit has hit the fan, Villiers has always had Miles Lanier to get his back. Richard Villiers is basically Michael Douglas from Wall Street; Damien Knight is basically Tony Stark. I give this one to Damien Knight.



I definitely think that Villiers would fight dirty, but I think that Knight would fight harder and better. (Knight vs. Lanier is a completely different contest, and one I'd cede to Lanier.)

But what do the rest of you think? I made a poll.



I love the idea that Lofwyr is just brolic.



I'm pretty sure that a lot of fluff indicates it does.

Posted by: Critias Aug 20 2011, 09:15 AM

A lot of that just comes down to which edition we're talking (in terms of stats carrying over to various metahuman forms), and on what fluff we're reading. Some folks like the crazy, almost comic-book type, images of a "normal" looking metahuman with a 30+ strength. Some don't. It depends on how magical you want them to be, how impressive and inhuman, and ultimately how "realistic" a game world you want.

And, even if full draconic strength doesn't transfer over, there's a precedent (drakes, for instance) that shows that draconic stats are still based, somewhat, on metahuman stats (like how drakes and shifters just applied modifiers to their metahuman stats to get their other-form stats). So there's a shaky fluff/rule precedent for the opposite perhaps also being true. If Lofwyr is substantially stronger in "true" form as a big-ass dragon, it may follow suit that even diminished into metahuman form, his body is still more powerful, broad-shouldered, whatever, than that of another dragon.

Again, just kind of depends on the edition and the fluff you choose to read.

Posted by: Angelone Aug 20 2011, 04:30 PM

The answer is whoever has the best handlebar mustache, so for every fight it would be Theodore Roosevelt.

Knight vs Villiers is my two favorite npcs squaring off.

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 20 2011, 07:22 PM

Still taking suggestions for the next poll.

Posted by: PeteThe1 Aug 20 2011, 07:27 PM

Who would be a good match for Dirk Montgomery?

Posted by: Nath Aug 20 2011, 07:40 PM

Damien Knight vs. Richard Villiers : Definitively Knight, because of his past experience. His early career was in "only" the Air Force, but then he joined Echo Mirage Team Two, which I guess involved a tad harsh, physical as much as intellectual selection process. Remember Echo Mirage original team utterly failed, and four member of Team Two died in their first attempt to deal with the virus.
I can see only one thing possibly changing the outcome in Villiers favor. If you think Villiers is accustomed to playing dirty, now try threatening his ex-wife Samantha Villiers in front of him.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 20 2011, 08:41 PM

I got the longest, drawn-out, smack down fistfight possible!

Thomas Roxborough versus Peg the Decker!

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Aug 20 2011, 08:47 PM

Heh... Point for Canray...

Posted by: Angelone Aug 20 2011, 09:54 PM

Dirk vs Serrin

Posted by: Angelone Aug 20 2011, 09:54 PM

Double post.

Which of the Knight clones would win?

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 20 2011, 09:58 PM

Dirk? I mean I imagine cyberarms would be pretty good for punching. Am I wrong?

Posted by: Saint Hallow Aug 20 2011, 10:03 PM

I would like to see a "Who's more of a bad-ass samurai, Ghost-Who-Walks or Argent?"

Posted by: hermit Aug 20 2011, 10:31 PM

Argent, hands down. So much more of a practical man.


Dirk. Serrin is a lot but not a martial artist.


Wolf (Stackpole's) because he tends to fight possessed by Wolf (also Stackpole's). Possession rules are nuts. In bare-knuckled mundane fights, all bets are off, sicne they have really a lot in common. Evenly matched, could go either way.


Verner, because he has an I-Win card issued by his writer.


It was a direct-to-chip sales hit in 2051, and also won five golden raspberries (worst acting, worst choreography, worst script, worst sequel and worst crossover). The winner, hence, is MegaMedia productions, now a subdivision of Regency.


Lofwyr. Because he hired a couple snipers to take out Aden in the ring, and put a huge bet on himself, effectively also making a huge buck out of the win (he also has the direct marketing rights to the fight reserved by Corp Court order).


Knight, because of previous military training, but it will be one hell of a match.


Wrecking Crew, because they actually do fighting and not a reality show.

My fight suggestions:

1. Harlequin vs. Erhan the Scribe
2. The Dodger vs. Puck
3. Catherine Hart vs. Nadja Daviar
4. William Jarman vs. Daniel Coleman
5. Ryan Mercury vs. Thorn

Posted by: Angelone Aug 20 2011, 10:41 PM

Argent would win hands down, he's the embodiment of bamf. Now Hatchetman vs Ghost would be a great fight.

Hart would wreck Daviar

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 21 2011, 01:07 AM

Ooh baby, this is heating up.

Like Colt doesn't!?



1) This is becoming the second official matchup.

2) Well, Puck looks weak and sickly in the meat, whereas Dodger is just an elf. This is a battle of the bitches however you look at it, but I think my bet'd go with Dodger. I understand he slings a mean machine pistol, so hopefully he won't totally embarass himself in hand to hand.

3) I'd go with Hart; I just think she's more of a badass.

4) Howling Coyote. Hands down?

5) Disqualified. Both of these characters have in-game stats. You can roll out this fight if you want to. : )

Posted by: Angelone Aug 21 2011, 01:35 AM

Harlequin and Erhan have faced off a few times and each lost an ear. Tough call with that one.

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 21 2011, 02:10 AM

That, however, was with rapiers, which is an entirely different ball game than fisticuffs.

Posted by: Troyminator Aug 21 2011, 02:39 AM

Didn't Lofwyr take on another dragon and kick its ass?

<edit> Already answered in a later post>

Posted by: CanRay Aug 21 2011, 03:41 AM

/dev/grrl/ versus Pip (From Shadowrun Mission, Season 4).

And, the suggestion that will have every person in a good relationship angry at me: Slamm-0! versus Netcat!

Posted by: Elfenlied Aug 21 2011, 02:12 PM

Personally, I want to see Burnout vs Teachdaire.

Posted by: CanadianWolverine Aug 21 2011, 02:49 PM

So, its totally ok for a sneaky type to sucker punch/kick/knee/elbow/headbutt/throw/trip and what not, correct? Just saying, this is Shadowrun, I totally see someone ambushing/ninja-ing in this fistacuffs.

Oh and if some pinkmohawk type character doesn't start a fight by launching themselves from some moving object for their first punch, I would be surprised as well.

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 21 2011, 05:59 PM

No love for Ehran the scribe, it seems.

Posted by: hermit Aug 21 2011, 06:41 PM

what! Ryan is statted? Where? Not disbelieving, but ... where?

Posted by: Critias Aug 21 2011, 06:47 PM

I think Dodger would take him (off the top of my head, just unabashedly picking the one I like better), but they've both been statted up -- albeit in different editions, so I think they're disqualified.


Painful as it is to say, I'd probably bet on Mercury.

Thorn got built a whole lot more as a sneaky killer than as a stand-up fighter (because he spent the last couple decades being a sneaky killer first, and a stand-up fighter second). From what I recall of Mercury's abilities, he's a whole lot more of an asskicking adept, with straight-up fighting abilities. If it were an assassination contest where they both got graded on how well they could sneak into someplace and kill someone (and his whole security detail), Thorn would probably take him. But in this sort of face-off, bare knuckle brawl? Mercury'd probably take him.

It'd be a long fight (because while Mercury spent his first action to Drake-up into a murder machine, Thorn would spend his first action to boost the bejeebus out of his Combat Sense and Critical Strike), and Thorn would be a frustrating dodge-monkey, don't get me wrong...but Thorn's pretty fragile, all things considered, so Mercury would just have to get in one solid hit and probably cut Rory in half.

It'd all come down to the luck of the dice, though. One unlucky soak roll from Mercury early on, and the elf's still in the fight, don't get me wrong.

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 21 2011, 07:47 PM

Gencon 2011 Shadowrun Tournament. I GM'd the first half of it for one of a dozen tables that were playing. The pregenerated PCs were Ryan Mercury, Serrin Shamandar, Rigger X, Winterhawk, Netcat, Argent, Picador, and possibly one or two others I'm forgetting.

I completely agree with Critias' assessment of Mercury vs. Thorne on a fluff level, but since we have both sets of stats we could totally roll it out.



Can has stats for Dodger? What book are they from?

Posted by: hermit Aug 21 2011, 09:46 PM

Okay, little wonder I was unaware of his stats. Will this be in the SRM Convention pack?

Also, stats for Argent ... well, I'd like to see those and Ryan's.

Posted by: Critias Aug 21 2011, 09:49 PM

Dodger was statted up back in SR3, somewhere in the Brainscan arc. I'm not at home right now so I can't provide a page number or anything, but hopefully someone else has their collection handy.

Posted by: ggodo Aug 21 2011, 09:58 PM

I'm looking at Dodger's stats right now. Page 134 of Brainscan, for those curious.

Posted by: Critias Aug 21 2011, 10:12 PM

*rolls his Drain soak after summoning ggodo as a Complex Action*

Posted by: ggodo Aug 21 2011, 10:34 PM

You best believe you're over summoning for me. I'm at least Force 12.

Posted by: Critias Aug 22 2011, 06:42 AM

So who says I'm not Magic of at least 12, then?

Posted by: CanRay Aug 22 2011, 04:19 PM

Battle Of The Lone Star Rejects: Derek "Dirk" Montgomery (Post Cyberarm) Vs. Wolf (Of "Lone Wolf")

Posted by: Critias Aug 22 2011, 07:34 PM

Sadly, I think Wolf would eat him alive. Dirk's more of a face, less of a super combat badass. He's tough enough he'd go down swinging, but I think he'd still go down.

Posted by: Angelone Aug 22 2011, 07:57 PM

I agree, Dirk while he is hard broiled isn't a badass fighter by any means. Wolf is more focused in that regard.

Posted by: Critias Aug 22 2011, 08:15 PM

Well, Dirk is a badass fighter (they had him going in with SWAT teams and that sort of thing). He's just a different scale of badass fighter than Wolf. Compared to an everyday civvie or a ganger or something, Dirk's a pretty tough, dangerous, guy. Compared to a hardcore street sammie or other seriously combat-oriented shadowrunner, though? He's a little in over his head.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 22 2011, 08:52 PM

Well, the only cybernetics we know that Wolf has is Skillwires and some Headware. Dirk will have his Stock Cyberarm. So, I guess it's whatever Wolf has slotted that day.

...

Then again, Wolf did hang out with a street gang. They don't typically let pussies hang around.

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 23 2011, 08:17 AM

I think Dirk, because he's scrappier and has more heart.

Posted by: hermit Aug 23 2011, 04:14 PM

Wolf is a social chameleon and deep-cover operative. Dirk is a PI. Both are face variants. I think they're evenly matched.

Posted by: Critias Aug 23 2011, 04:27 PM

Got my Wolfs mixed up when I read that post. I was picturing Dirk and his cyberarm going up against Stackpole's OM NOM NOM machine.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 23 2011, 04:30 PM

"some of those piggards tasted more of motor oil than of bad meat. And no, they don't ALL taste like chicken."

Posted by: CanRay Aug 23 2011, 04:52 PM

Wolf (Of "Wolf and Raven") Versus Baseball. "I shall help you catch the rabbit-ball!"

Posted by: hermit Aug 23 2011, 04:54 PM

Baseball?

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 23 2011, 11:44 PM

Wolf-Guy:"The Ball is coming at light speed"
Wolf-Spirit:"I can give you warp speed!
Wolf-Guy:"*disgusted hiss and cursing about falling asleep in front of the TV while OLD SciFi is playing. Which the Wolf-Spirit somehow picks up and thinks of as space shamans."

Wolfgang Kies was drafted as a PI/Bodyguard to the Seattle Baseball Team. And as a replacement player for an official game.
They tought him how to spit tobacco.
"You only swallow chew tobacco once. Then you learn how to spit it as far away as possible"

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 26 2011, 06:19 PM

This thread has gotten...strange...in my brief absence.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 26 2011, 07:23 PM

we tend to do that to innocent little threads from time to time . . deal with it! ^^
also: read the novel. you're missing out if you don't.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 26 2011, 07:42 PM

No it hasn't I've been here all the time, spouting out the strangest suggestions.

None of which have been accepted, I might add.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 26 2011, 07:46 PM

Ork Decker/Hacker Fistfight: Bull (The Best Ork Hacker You Never Met) vs. Max (Aftershock)

And, yes, we hid Bull's Panther Assault Cannon so he can't cheat. That one too. That one too. That one too. That one too...

Posted by: last_of_the_great_mikeys Aug 26 2011, 09:53 PM

Hmmmm...

Sirrurg vs. Ghostwalker.

Sirrurg is just badass and fighty. Ghostwalker can likely invoke and channel the Spirit of Denver™. Which wins, Sirrurg's implied skill at ass-kickery or Ghostwalker's spirit posessed brawn?

Posted by: Saint Hallow Aug 27 2011, 03:04 AM

I say we take it up a notch, & see a battle of the divas... SR style.

Sally Tsung (Secrets of Power) vs Sly (Shadowplay) in a mud-wrestling pit.
Stiper (Striper Assassin) vs Samurai Elf girl (Steel Rain... forgot her name) in Strip Match.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 27 2011, 10:29 AM

Dude . . Sly is like . . old . . and a Decker . .

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Aug 27 2011, 02:07 PM

But still pretty hot...

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Aug 27 2011, 02:08 PM

EDIT: Damn... Glitched my Computer Roll...

Posted by: Saint Hallow Aug 27 2011, 02:22 PM

... & Sally isn't old? Plus she's a mage. Though she does carry a sword, so maybe Sally has some history as a brawler.

Good question & point... When we pick our fighters... which version we picking? Them at their prime or not? An old Wolfgang Kies vs young Rick Larson? Young, still in training Ryan Mercury vs middle aged Argent? Etc...

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 27 2011, 10:26 PM

Depends. The first two polls are fights happening in 2073 (yes, old Knight vs. old Villiers, battle of the silver foxes), the third poll happens in approximately 2060.

This fight happens in 2053. And the winner is...the audience.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 27 2011, 11:07 PM

Why does a scene from the book "Thud" come to mind???

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 28 2011, 01:38 AM

dunno?
which one?
been a while since i last read that one . .
also, i never read it in english <.<

Posted by: Elfenlied Aug 28 2011, 10:17 AM

You mean Sally and Angua?

Posted by: ElFenrir Aug 28 2011, 11:52 AM

Keep in mind, this was most likely done with Magic or a sword. Colt has a three strength and a three unarmed combat. There is no way the arms were lost in *just* fisticuffs. If not magic, then this was likely done with a sword(which she has a decent enough skill in). So I'd say Dirk still stands an extremely good chance in that situation; even with a 5 agility, Colt is not particularly a super impressive physical specimen without a blade. Solid with natural agility but not limb-removing.

Now, if *magic* were involved? Changes everything. Same if weapons were allowed.

As for Harlequin and Mr. The Scribe, Harle hands down. (I hope they keep him unstatted as well. I like my image of Harle. )

I think Wolfgang would take the other Wolf. Wolfgang Kies is pretty badass when he wants to be.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 01:51 PM

It was Twist, not Dirk, that I had up against Colt.

Posted by: ElFenrir Aug 28 2011, 04:27 PM

Whoops. Allergy meds and yesterday's party sorta made me misread that for some reason. Heh.

Still, though-assuming NO magic and NO weapons? That would equalize it more even with Twist's code against killing(I sadly don't have his stats in front of me though, so I don't know what level he fights on with no weapons or spells). If actual spellcasting were allowed I'd give it to Colt at that point.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 04:28 PM

We've never had Twist's stats, thus Twist Vs. Colt is a legit fight, as we now have stats for Kellen.

Posted by: ElFenrir Aug 28 2011, 04:36 PM

That's right-only one of the two combatants is allowed to have official stats.

That does make things interesting, I admit. Though it does also fall into ''Numbers Evaluation'' somewhat with the person who *is* statted, naturally, just not to the extent of if both of the combatants involved were statted, in which case it could end up an actual die-rolling contest. With only one statted, one can take a look at one of the person's stats and make an educated guess what they can do in a fistfight, and then figure out the other from story alone.

Pretty fun though.

Posted by: Saint Hallow Aug 28 2011, 04:45 PM

This is a fistfight. Twist doesn't need to kill her to win.

Magic... Colt is super strong, but Twist was chosen by Dog. Twist did a Ghost Dance & used it to stop Insect spirits and nukes. Yup, nukes.
Weapons... Colt would own Twist if she got her hands on a blade. Twist has never used any melee weapons. He'd opt for a stun baton, but would be outlcassed.
Fistfight... Dunno about this one. I think Twist is physically bigger than Colt. He's taller & heavier, but not necessarily stronger. He'd probably go down after the first kick to the groin from Colt, but if he was able to keep going after that, he'd be punching, backhanding, & up to angry brawling mindset no problem.

Posted by: ElFenrir Aug 28 2011, 05:03 PM

Fistfights are always iffy if the people are equalish on stats, since it very well at that point goes down to who ends up just giving up the ghost faster. At the same time, when you're dealing with people with insaneo magic and resources and the like it's one of the best ways to reduce it down to the base.

Now, not all mages are bad at fighting of course. Serrin is highly skilled in Carromeleg as well as having solid physical stats. But in Twists and Colt's case, neither of them are particularly hard-bitten pro unarmed fighters, so they're pretty IMO equal(again, not wanting to kill doesn't mean you're a bad fighter-if anything, simple fisticuffs is a good way to not kill someone, and groin attacks can hurt.)

Then you get the opposite end of things like Ehran vs. Harlequin, both of which likely have perfected their physical beings in every way since, being 4000 years old, you have to start working on *something*, and skill-wise, the same. I still think that for some reason Harle would have put more elbow grease into his toughness, strength and speed, so that's why I hand him that unarmed victory.

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 29 2011, 07:32 AM

Assuming that all other things are equal (ha fraggin' ha) I BELIEVE that the fluff actually mentioned that Ehran was physically bigger and stronger and more imposing.

Also I am a bit confused by the 30:1 Harlequin: Ehran ratio up in this bit. Did you guys forget that the 'first' time those two threw down, Ehran decisively won?

Posted by: CanRay Aug 29 2011, 12:03 PM

Yeah, but that was, when, during the Renaissance era?

And don't forget his reaction...

Posted by: Warlordtheft Aug 29 2011, 02:50 PM

A dropbear or an abrahms lobster?

Buttercup vs Lofwyr?

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 29 2011, 05:38 PM

You mean three to five centuries of brooding plus 8+ full adventures of intricate byzantine obscure indirect revenge scheme resulting in him tutoring/boning the guy's daughter?

Pretty awesome, as far as http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s05e01-scott-tenorman-must-die go, and my all time favorite SR adventure. But in terms of relevance to a fistfight? Close to zero.

The actual sword fights are the closest to being relevant, and on those they're tied up. (One ear each.)

Posted by: CanRay Aug 29 2011, 09:24 PM

On the flipside, Harley is up on boning! Which puts him in the winner's spotlight, no matter how you look at it!

Posted by: Czar Eggbert Aug 30 2011, 06:40 AM

Bull has stats... I don't know what they are, but I can almost guarantee if you look on the old ShadowRN list you can find a version of him.


The Eggman

Posted by: CanRay Aug 30 2011, 07:25 AM

Eggman, Bull just got updated stats in the second-to-latest book.

Max, however, does not have stats, so this is a legit suggestion.

Posted by: Czar Eggbert Aug 30 2011, 07:51 AM

Crap... now I have to go buy another book.

The Eggman