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Posted by: Tashiro Aug 28 2011, 02:55 PM

I'm getting into the feel of my campaign and the characters in my group, and I've been thinking about what 4E is like so far. The only way I can really describe it, I think, is post-cyberpunk. This is what I've been taking from the game so far:

Cyberware
Cybernetics hit a peak about 20 or 30 years ago, and is now somewhat in decline. People buy cyberware if they're too poor for anything else, or if it does something that other methods can't explicitly mimic. The general public sees cybernetics as 'quaint' or perhaps a bit dangerous (due to the media). Most people who go cyber may get only very limited implants.

Bioware
Bioware is at its peak, having been refined (though not necessarily perfected). It is about where cybernetics were 20 or 30 years ago. This is still the go-to choice for modifications, and is generally seen as more 'essence friendly' than cybernetics. It is only just now beginning to fall out of fashion, but still has legs on it for probably another decade or so.

Transgenics
Gene-tailoring and alteration is considered the "new thing", and is becoming incredibly popular. Very essence friendly, but does not have the sheer variety yet that bioware has. Transgenics are fashionable, a show of status and wealth, and as the technology advances it will slowly replace bioware as the go-to thing for augmentation.

Nanites
Still in its infancy, nanites are not trusted just yet, but the technology is slowly improving. As an essence-free system, nanites have the opportunity to be the next best thing, once it has become refined enough. It may replace transgenics, but probably not for another 50 or 60 years.

The Public World
The thing I'm slowly bringing into sight of my players is that outside of the barrens where they live, the world is run by AR. If you're not connected to AR, you effectively don't exist. Passkeys exist only in AR, stop signs, traffic lights, warnings, advertising, shop signs, and most other forms of information now exist nearly exclusively in Augmented Reality. A few of the PCs took Simsense Vertigo, while another took Gremlins, and as they expand their missions and social life beyond the barrens, they're learning just how much they're missing. I plan to emphasize this more and more - the Matrix has now overlayed nearly every aspect of life, and the PCs need to adapt to this.

This is a new information age, where everyone is inundated by the Matrix. A run involves more now than just slipping into a place, getting what you want, and shooting your way out. It also involves needing to control what the world knows about you, manipulating data and perception, and almost desperately needs one or two hackers to get things done right. Before and after a run involves gathering information, manipulating information, and keeping some degree of anonymity through it all. A shadowrunner's work is much more complicated than it used to be.

Really, I kind of like how the setting is closer to Minority Report than Blade Runner these days.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 03:07 PM

The major differences between Cyberpunk and Post-Cyberpunk are twofold:

1. Appearance. In Cyberpunk, even the happy shiny world was pretty damned dreary. Looking out the world into slums and pollution even at the top levels showed you a world that was crumbling down. In Post-Cyberpunk, it's wonderful and beautiful! Even if it's only an AR window to cover up reality, under the veneer you can still see the scum. Yes, in the 2050s people would just escape into Simsense and only see the drek on their way to work, but now in the 2070s they can have a nice, shiny (augmented) reality where the homeless bums and crumbling buildings are filtered out and replaced with unicorns and rainbows all the time.

2. Attempt at creating a better world. In Cyberpunk, survival trumps all, with some attempt at "Fighting The Man". In Post-Cyberpunk, it's more about "Fighting the man and making the world what it should be", with survival being a close second (If not neck-in-neck.). Horizon and Evo are, at least apparently, attempting to do this, even when they are "The Man", as well as a number of influences of Shadowrunners attempting to do this, with the big emphasis in campaigns towards Non-Metahuman Sentient, Technomancer, and HMHVV-Infected equality and understanding. (After the Orxploition bit, only Dwarves are getting the short end of things, and well, that's just appropriate.)

Posted by: Tashiro Aug 28 2011, 03:52 PM

Actually, those are really good points. Thanks!

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 04:06 PM

It's also one of the reasons that I think the Infected Equality (Or whatever you want to call it) is being pushed heavily in the current products.

Ain't huggin' no Ghoul any time soon, however.

Posted by: Seerow Aug 28 2011, 04:08 PM

Until they successfully develop synth-flesh ain't nobody gonna be hugging no ghouls. Even after, they're pretty damn creepy, but you can live with creepy as long as you know they're not likely to try to eat your arm in the middle of the night.

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 28 2011, 04:20 PM

No hugging ghouls until there's a vaccine. That stuff's contagious.


Anyway, for some ideas on post-cyberpunk you could try Neal Stephenson's novel The Diamond Age. It's more nanotech-based than biotech though, and not nearly as dystopian as SR. But overall it's a nice read.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 04:22 PM

Take a walk with Spider Jerusalem and see The City, and Post-Cyberpunk in all it's glory.

...

It's not that glorious. Especially when the giant metal penis' fell off and crushed people to death.

Posted by: hobgoblin Aug 28 2011, 04:53 PM

Add some noir and stir

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 05:00 PM

Noir and zombies make everything better!

Posted by: hobgoblin Aug 28 2011, 05:19 PM

Zombies in trenchcoats and fedoras

Posted by: Kirk Aug 28 2011, 06:34 PM

Nicely stated.

A point, however. There are some coalitions/powers that are unstable. Hastily created and held together in the immediate stress to survive all the crap the world was throwing, the release of outside pressures is allowing them to start fracturing.

Since I'm focused on it I can see this in the CAS - Atlanta vs Georgia, Georgia vs Texas (while states between think both are problems). There are echoes in the Sioux territories, too. Aztlan's drive for MORE is not least driven by the urge to contain its own internal dissonances. The west coast is NOT STABLE. Not least is that Seattle is a constant political and economic irritant for the Salish-Shidhe. Oh, and SS does not like Tir (the feeling is mutual, of course.) Speaking of Tir, don't forget the disputed area between it and California.

The need to survive is no longer quite as severe. Greed - disguised as seeking a better world (For Us and those Like Us) - is coming to the fore. Of course the corps are preventing pure nationalism from coming about as well.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 06:55 PM

Now all we need is a President who just wants to screw with people (To go back to Transmetropolitan, The Smiler!), or, almost as bad, a sabre-ratting chickenhawk (I'll let you draw your own conclusions who I'm talking about here.).

Posted by: Sengir Aug 28 2011, 07:29 PM

Well, in terms of how "clean" the world is, it certainly is closer to Minority Report than Blade Runner. On the other hand, the central figures of the narration still are street-level criminals

And nanotech may still be in its infancy and untrusted according to fluff, but ever since M&M the actual gear available is highly advanced, can do everything (if it can build AKs and remap fingerprints, why not let it upgrade your arm in situ?) and is available at every street corner.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 09:42 PM

Yeah, if you buy your augmentations from the sleazy guy in the trenchcoat that's in Augmentation...

Posted by: Sengir Aug 28 2011, 10:14 PM

Don't worry, most nanoware (including some weaponized varieties) can be had at availability 12 or less. So if you dislike the seller's side business, another one is easy to find

Posted by: Infornography Aug 29 2011, 09:17 AM

Shadowrun 4 is still just cyberpunk.
They only got rid of the 80s/90s and made it more contemporary.
The themes and concepts are almost the same.

Actually they didn't even change that much.
Technology-wise SR4 is still behind Cyberpunk 2020.
Actually SR4 is behind us too in some areas.
Like, why are there no jet engine motorbikes, huh?

And where are my flying cars?
Vector thrust my ass.

More like pre-cyberpunk.


What the thread creator meant is transhumanism btw,
which is a theme of both cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk.

Posted by: Blade Aug 29 2011, 09:51 AM

Post-cyberpunk isn't about the tech-level. It's about the societal approach.
The tech in Minority Report (the movie) is behind the one in Blade Runner in many aspects: no extremely realistic androids, no flying cars (I might be mistaken here), no space colonization program. But Blade Runner is cyberpunk and Minority Report post-cyberpunk.

Posted by: scarius Aug 29 2011, 09:59 AM

maybe its the begining of biopunk, wherein everyone becomes a bioneticly enhanced mean machine

Posted by: Infornography Aug 29 2011, 10:09 AM

I never said it is. I just added that to the didn't-change-that-much part.
What I meant was that they only touched up SR here and there but it's still pretty much the same.

I wouldn't be so certain about Cyberpunk vs Post-Cyberpunk though.
There doesn't seem to be a clear line.

Besides post-cyberpunk isn't really an established genre, yet.
It's very vague and everything people want it to represent pretty much fit's into cyberpunk.
If I remember correctly it only originated from one guy who wanted to force a new genre no one needed.

But when I hear POST cyberpunk I'd think about something like Blame! rather than Minority Report.
Well whatever. In the end it's all just dystopia anyhow.

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 29 2011, 10:23 AM

SR4 has a lot more iPhone-wielding clueless middle class in it than earlier editions though. It's more of a slick white/light-blue sterile design than the gritty lower-class dystopia from before.

Not saying it's a happy world, but it's a lot cleaner. More controlled.

Posted by: Infornography Aug 29 2011, 10:33 AM

That's a decade thing. 70s dystopia was brick walls and brown/grey. With the 80s came neon in all rainbow colors but there were still brick walls and garbage everywhere. The 90s were all blue and chrome. Then with the matrix it became bright green and black leather. And today it's ipod white and blue/green holocrap. Which is kinda strange since monocrome holographics were made popular by star wars in the late 70s. You'd think they would've got full-colored ones by now.

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 29 2011, 11:13 AM

It might be an aesthetic thing, but I get the impression the focus has shifted from the SINless towards a hapless consumerist middle class.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 29 2011, 12:08 PM

The ubiquity of CommLinks ("Smart Phones on Crack" as I describe them to folks I'm introducing to the universe) means that the Shadowtalkers have to get and strip info meant for said clueless middle class. Whereas before they had to write things from whole-cloth, and did so from their SINless roots.

If that's the idea where that concept came from, it's a very subtle and nice touch. If not, well, my explanation works as well as any other.

Posted by: sunnyside Aug 29 2011, 04:10 PM

Shadowrun has been "post-cyberpunk" since I got into it in 2nd ed. I bet it's been "post" since inception.

Really what it comes down to is that cyberpunk has the shell of cybernetics and techology. But inside, when you look at its soul, I think it's probably best characterized in many ways by the musical Rent.

Cyberpunk 2020 was the RPG for this feel. Johnny Silverhand and problem solving with freaking concerts. Style before substance and whatnot.

The problem of course, is that (many)most gamers are the sort who felt ostracised by the "Rent" crowd, and would just as soon crush them under their heel as look at them. A great read is the game supplement "Listen up you Primitive Screwheads" which is essentially a sourcebook where the CP 2020 writers are pissed off at their playerbase because the players kept taking their very cyperpunk game and basically using the system to play Shadowrun.

I do think 4E is trying to move one from there though. I've heard the term "Cyberprep" and I'm not sure if it works, but I kinda like it, especially in regards to the new middle class. It's a world of AR, everywhere, all the time. A world where Big Brother is going "whoa, OK, you guys are oversharing a little here."

Personally I try to increasingly work that stuff in and increase the roll of hacking. Including at lower skill levels. Stuff like being able to mess with the GPS untis in peoples comlinks in order to get them to all walk somewhere, kinda like meat drones, in order to get an infiltration bonus due to crowd screening.

Posted by: TheWanderingJewels Aug 29 2011, 05:02 PM

Actually, SR4 with some of the bioware and gene ware options is leaning towards TransHumanPunk with magick.

Cyberpunk v3 is Transhuman Post-Cyberpunk

Posted by: Infornography Aug 29 2011, 07:20 PM

You read too much on TVtropes.

Posted by: Fatum Aug 30 2011, 12:39 PM

Most ghouls fighting for equal rights are second-gens anyway, they aren't contagious.

Posted by: Ascalaphus Aug 30 2011, 03:59 PM

I'm not taking risks. Napalm will sort them out.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 30 2011, 07:25 PM

Napalm sticks to Ghouls? I thought Napalm sticks to kids?

Posted by: CanRay Aug 30 2011, 08:41 PM

http://youtu.be/_TbmcgGsXyU.

Put *HIM* in more Cyberpunk movies!

Posted by: hobgoblin Aug 30 2011, 09:40 PM

i had forgotten how minimal her wardrobe was...

Posted by: TheWanderingJewels Aug 31 2011, 12:54 PM

actually, it comes from playing CPv3 and Eclipse phase