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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Outdated tropes
Posted by: suoq Sep 7 2011, 04:24 PM
Warning: Taking the below too seriously may cause an increase in blood pressure.
Shadowrun is a dystopia: It's over. Metahumans in Shadowrun have more rights than many people today. The lowest exploited are meta-sapients and people are even fighting for their rights. Even ghouls have rights now and AIs are getting SINs in the 2070s. It's easier to deal with the MDC checkpoint in New York than to deal with TSA to fly to GenCon in 2011. The dystopia is over, please return to your homes and watch Tri-D.
People are afraid of Magic: Again, over. They're employees now, with stock options. They walk right through the millimeter wave radar because they don't have to carry a gun or be wired up. If anything, people are jealous of magic because it means job security, freedom to walk the streets tonight, and a good enough income to have a private seat at the club.
Seedy Fixers: That was a generation ago. If you want plausible deniability, then you need to go through professionals. Why fixers don't appear to work like the companies in "The Mechanic" or "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" and instead are Street Thugs like you find in this season of Missions is beyond me. This isn't the Wild West anymore. If you have a specific job with unusual requirements you hire a discrete contracting firm who can assemble a team for you to do the job.
Soy Food: There is plenty of good food. Even the first story in the SR4 book has a fishing boat (and you can buy one in Arsenal). Runner's Companion has piles of great food in their lifestyles section. Sure, the gangers are eating soy, but chances are you're on the top of the food chain because you have the ware, the contacts, and you're hanging out with mages, any one of whom could be pulling in stock options right now. And if you are a mage and eating soy we really need to talk about life decisions.
Posted by: Neurosis Sep 7 2011, 04:49 PM
Blood...pressure...rising.
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 7 2011, 04:52 PM
u mad bro?
Posted by: Tanegar Sep 7 2011, 04:57 PM
The only one of those points I even come close to disagreeing with is the first. The Sixth World still has strong dystopic elements, megacorporate power chief among them. For-profit entities, no matter how well-intentioned, make shitty governments. There's also widespread Balkanization: corps distrust each other, governments distrust each other, and corps and governments hate each others' guts. No cooperation on common goals here. Just because more people have more rights doesn't necessarily mean the world is getting better.
Posted by: Neraph Sep 7 2011, 05:19 PM
El. Oh. El.
Posted by: Warlordtheft Sep 7 2011, 06:07 PM
YMMV with each GM, but I find that to play up the dystopian feel you have to keep 20% is squatter or street, 50% of the population has a low lifestyle, 20% is middle lifestyle and 9 % are high lifestyles, the remaining 1% are luxury.
This means that 90% of the population eats soy on a regular basis.
People fear magic, not nessicarily mages though. And with insect spirits and shedhim in the news, the majority of the population is still afraid of magic.
Fixers: well like a good econimist once said, it depends.
Meta-rights: Yeah, everyone that has a SIN has rights. And those bonafides are solid as a rock. /sarcasm... Those rights on extend to certain jurisdictions (Just try and ask for a lawyer in the Pyramid after getting caught red handed, sin or no sin). Even in Seattle proper, you may just disappear if you slot off the wrong people.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 7 2011, 06:12 PM
Posted by: Warlordtheft Sep 7 2011, 06:24 PM
And what if that SIN disappears or is modified? It does happen...everyone relies on it in the developed areas as a bonafide ID, just like a drivers lisce is despite the fact that those are constantly faked...
J Smith was at two places at once---no really, the SIN tracker proves it!
Posted by: CanRay Sep 7 2011, 08:03 PM
Think about that for a moment.
As for Metahumans not being persecuted, it's more like what's going on today, they're not being OVERTLY persecuted. It's a nice, subtle, legal persecution. Three-piece suits instead of white robes.
AIs getting SINs is a marketing and development strategy. Who better to write codes than "Beings" who have code as their first language. Also, they're cheap workers, no health insurance, no retirement fund, no vacations... They do the work of ten or more programmers. Cost-Benefit Analysis anyone?
Technomancy, now, that's just unnatural and WRONG!
Don't forget that "Thug" used to be the fashion style of the 2050s, and was still in style in the "Retro Ironic" sort of way in the 2060s. It's totally over now.
Also, just think about trying to protect a smuggled truck-and-reefer full of beef as it drives into town from a Troll Go-Gang. Good 'Run idea!
Posted by: explorator Sep 7 2011, 11:02 PM
This means that 90% of the population eats soy on a regular basis.
I think by those parameters, we already live in a dystopian world.
“In 2007 U.S., the top 20 percent controlled about 84 percent of the wealth, while the bottom quintile controlled just 0.1 percent. The combined net worth of the bottom 40 percent, in fact, accounted for just 0.3 percent of the nation's wealth.”
I think many of Shadowrun’s middle-class mostly eats soy, but probably splurges on real food as often as the budget allows. I also have the impression that the quality of the soy-processor can make a big difference, with low-end ones producing foods that all taste kind of like french fries, and expensive models putting out some appetizing meals.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 7 2011, 11:28 PM
“In 2007 U.S., the top 20 percent controlled about 84 percent of the wealth, while the bottom quintile controlled just 0.1 percent. The combined net worth of the bottom 40 percent, in fact, accounted for just 0.3 percent of the nation's wealth.”
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 7 2011, 11:32 PM
If you were to kill the 200 richest people in america and take their belongings away and give it the state, you could clear up the complete national debt.
or something like that, i've read . .
Posted by: CanRay Sep 7 2011, 11:37 PM
Yeah, but that'd be hard to do. They have security guards and firearms. 
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 7 2011, 11:40 PM
Yeah So?
America has Cops and the Army.
Much bigger Problem:
The rich ones have LAWYERS . .
Posted by: CanRay Sep 7 2011, 11:46 PM
Which means they have http://youtu.be/S5puAN1PGQw.
Thus you send http://youtu.be/dccCasm6LVc.
http://youtu.be/dIC4j6Rn9s4
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 7 2011, 11:55 PM
Thus you send http://youtu.be/dccCasm6LVc.
http://youtu.be/dIC4j6Rn9s4
I was thinking more along these lines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI
edit:
i'd have so much more respect for that kind of people, if their life really was like that . .
Posted by: IridiosDZ Sep 8 2011, 12:57 AM
or something like that, i've read . .
I'm not digging for the most recent info because it's late but your numbers are way off.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/22/news/companies/forbes_400/index.htm
while the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget
That means the combined wealth of the top 400 American corporate entities could not even pay one years budget. The federal debt ceiling was 2.4 trillion and that had to be raised recently. The top 400 wouldn't be able to completely cover that alone. And you could only take the wealth of the richest only once.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 8 2011, 01:15 AM
Hm, Canada's ~$567 Billion debt isn't looking nearly so bad right now... Go figure.
OK, bringing this back on topic: When the UCAS was formed, what happened to said combined debt? I mean, it was the US and Canada that incurred that debt, not the "United Canadian-American States", a whole new country!
Posted by: Miri Sep 8 2011, 03:12 AM
Usually when treaties like that are signed both parties take on each others debt load and obligations.. or so I figure. If they just dumped the debt like a hot potato I don't imagine other countries and AAA's would be all the willing to loan em more.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 8 2011, 03:47 AM
Depending on the debt, the loss of lending rating might be the lesser of two evils.
How's it feeling, having a credit rating worse than "Monopoly Money Canada"?
...
OK, I'm sorry, I'm slightly drunk.
Posted by: Neraph Sep 8 2011, 04:11 AM
or something like that, i've read . .
EDIT: was beaten to it.
Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 8 2011, 05:23 AM
I somewhat agree with all of what Suoq says except maybe the soy thing. I've always had a mental image of a lot of the agricultural belt in America having been handed over tot he NAN who don't have interest inf arming it, or having the roaming critter problem. In that kind of environment soy starts to become viable.
The biggest thing that Shadowrun has always had a problem for me is the macro ones. Where do the people in the barrens (and therefore all these wonderful gangs and other types) get their money. To have the dystopia or post-dystopia you have to have a lot of people barely eeking out a living under horrible conditions. I just don't see that as sustainable in a situation where you lack any kind of welfare/relief/aid and have lost any pretense of sustainability.
Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 8 2011, 05:57 AM
RE: Fixers
Fixers are a tricky subject as for dramtic reasons there is quite a bit of bleed over for functons that J's and fixers do. A fixer bieng a street level thug makes sense in some situations, others they should be someone mroe refined and organized, but not too refined and organized. THe more organized you are the more ways to track you, the more easily it is to track you the better you can be traced back to the hands that hire you.
Posted by: kzt Sep 8 2011, 06:24 AM
or something like that, i've read . .
The stats I've heard was that you would have to confiscate all the wealth of every millionaire. Which is a lot more than 200 people. 3.1 million more. And you'd end up in just as deep a hole in 10 years, but now without any of the big taxpayers.
Posted by: kzt Sep 8 2011, 06:33 AM
Fixers are a tricky subject as for dramtic reasons there is quite a bit of bleed over for functons that J's and fixers do. A fixer bieng a street level thug makes sense in some situations, others they should be someone mroe refined and organized, but not too refined and organized. THe more organized you are the more ways to track you, the more easily it is to track you the better you can be traced back to the hands that hire you.
If someone bugs you comlink they know everything you do. And it's not exactly hard if you are a corp that can afford to hire really skilled people to hack the gear of a one-man show that is typically not a computer security expert. Like LS or KE. Which are sovereign nations and can essentially do anything they want to anyone who isn't seriously important.
There is a lot of "and then the magic happens" to make the society as presented work. If you sweat the details it all comes apart in your hands.
Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 8 2011, 06:45 AM
There is a lot of "and then the magic happens" to make the society as presented work. If you sweat the details it all comes apart in your hands.
I'm going to go ahead and disagree there. A fixer by definition is a security expert, by nature of being what they are they know how to keep their coms secure and keep their traces hidden. A lot of that should fall into the relam of tradecraft but I would expect most of their comm gear to be well protected and compartmentalized. Hell they might even use good old fashioned paper and disposable comlinks.
Posted by: Mardrax Sep 8 2011, 08:04 AM
Prostitution, robbery (which has gotten a lot harder sans credsticks. Still, rob stuff, instead of money), grand theft, borrowing from organised crime. Go gangs have a way of tearing down the safety rep of any bit of highway that happens to be in their turf for a reason. Plus, I heard devil rat on a stick can feed you for a day or two if you're satisfied with not being supersized. You just need to find them.
Posted by: Ascalaphus Sep 8 2011, 10:33 AM
If you don't like soy, there's always soylent yellow and soylent red krill and mycoprotein. Besides, artificial flavorings are better than the real thing anyway, if you don't know better. Stop complaining
Posted by: suoq Sep 8 2011, 12:50 PM
My assumption has been that they don't use money. They use variations on barter system and co-ops.
See also http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=35191 (Currency, rewards, bribes, and tips)
I don't think sustainability has been lost at all. I think traffic between Urban and Rural has simply ceased. Just because the NAN (government) doesn't want to farm, I don't see that to be any reason why people who were already farming would want to stop farming. Sure, they'll have to break out their Foxfire books and start doing some things the old fashioned way but given the insanity that was the cities in earlier versions of shadowrun, small rural communities should be able to survive with modifications. And someone's got to keep quail for all those quail eggs the people at luxury lifestyle are eating.
--------------------
As for fixers, I just don't see one person being able to remain secure. In the whole chain, he is the weakest link. The Johnsons (at least in Missions) are way to open about who they're working for as well. If they're going to be that open, they would be better off keeping the job in-house. I'd rather see the Johnson contact a known team leader through a known drop box and when that job is done that face goes away, changing their appearance and location. People talk about teams being pink mohawk, but security for a table should be set by the behavior of the people starting the job.
--------------------
It also fascinates me that for all the talk of soy, there's so little talk of rice. The two go hand in hand throughout history....
Posted by: Mardrax Sep 8 2011, 01:02 PM
Solid chance the blatant overproduction of rice in most major rice producing countries has been causing a further drop in groundwater than we're already seeing today, and the rice production being on its behind for the most part.
Posted by: Ascalaphus Sep 8 2011, 01:14 PM
What do the SINless do for a living anyway? If the government and corporations don't hand out welfare anymore, where do they get stuff from?
Sure, some of them steal, and some of them beg, but that only works if there's people to give money to beggers or to mug. So is there a SINless economy, where actual value is produced?
Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 8 2011, 01:31 PM
This is probably one of the reasons why Corps permit certified credsticks to be widely available.
Without them sections of the economy would collapse.
Other than that, I dunno, maybe they use bottlecaps for currency?
-k
Posted by: CanRay Sep 8 2011, 02:23 PM
*Is busy drinking a Nuka-Cola and keeping a firm grip on my leather bottlecap bag*
Posted by: suoq Sep 8 2011, 03:17 PM
Sure, some of them steal, and some of them beg, but that only works if there's people to give money to beggers or to mug. So is there a SINless economy, where actual value is produced?
I don't see why there wouldn't be.
In the early years, scavenging is a major form of planning. If you have 4 rural towns and 25% of the population dies, there's a chance for those towns to consolidate and there's a lot of extra equipment that can be used. Converting to biodiesel or other fuels will allow machinery to continue to run and lower population means leftover machines for spare parts. As time passes, modern technology will have to be replaced by more primitive technology but that's not hard. The main issues are setting up trade routes with other rural areas that produce things you need in exchange for things you have and they don't.
In later years, these areas can reform into semi-self sustaining economies by those willing to do the work. There may be trade, such as smugglers who trade weapons for beef or areas outside of cities who trade stolen goods for biofuel.
However, this large economy is unknown to the people who live in the enclaves. (This isn't a surprise, there are Amish communities in 28 states and the Canadian province of Ontario with a combined population of about 261,150 - http://www2.etown.edu/amishstudies/Population_Trends_2009_2011.asp and most people know diddly-squat about them except how they appear in fiction.)
If you wish to introduce such an area to your campaign, I highly suggest finding old copies of Foxfire books (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxfire_%28magazine%29 ).
Posted by: Ascalaphus Sep 8 2011, 03:26 PM
Gee, I thought there'd be a lot more Amish. Anyway, your tale sounds like it could work.
Posted by: Neraph Sep 8 2011, 05:06 PM
In the Redmond Barrens, it's Bottlecaps.
EDIT: Beaten to it... twice!
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 8 2011, 05:11 PM
An economy held up by drinking beer, soda and using broken bottles as wepons!
Posted by: CanRay Sep 8 2011, 05:24 PM
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 8 2011, 06:12 PM
You a Hick? O.o
Posted by: CanRay Sep 8 2011, 06:24 PM
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 8 2011, 06:58 PM
*shrugs*
aside from being a bit of a gun nut, you nerver did strike me as a hick personally *grins*
Posted by: CanRay Sep 8 2011, 07:22 PM
Yeah, well, I grew up in the "City". I know a few High-Tech Rednecks, however.
Posted by: Draco18s Sep 8 2011, 08:52 PM
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/archive/2011/08/21
Posted by: Sengir Sep 9 2011, 12:19 AM
And who is going to enforce those rights? The ones you pay, provided the other side does not pay more to prevent those rights from being enforced. Shadowrun has the classic cyberpunk distinction between a few who have the money and the sprawling masses who don't and hence are nothing but cattle for the haves.
RC also states clearly that it takes a middle lifestyle to have real food every now and then, and being able to afford real food on a constant basis is considered high lifestyle.
Posted by: Tiralee Sep 9 2011, 01:14 AM
Don't be silly, there's no such thing as the Amish. They're imaginary creatures, like Unicorns and the Eskimo.
Never underestimate barter, favours for favours and the smugglers.
No matter where you are, what to do or what hell-hole you're living out of, there will be trade, hording and then some sort of economy in short order.
The biggest hurdle is a mutually-acceptable medium of trade (currency) that parties can agree on and with which they can involve 3rd/4th parties.
Once currency becomes fluid, smugglers will move it to where the market demands it and then that becomes trade.
-Tir
Posted by: suoq Sep 9 2011, 02:34 AM
See Homegrown Farming, RC pg 162. All the food of a high lifestyle, available to people at a low.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 9 2011, 04:05 AM
Perfect for the Anti-Corporate Neo-@ who remembers where most of our food comes from: AZT and Horizon!
Posted by: Neraph Sep 9 2011, 04:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlPM0x8j9Es, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV9CCxdkOng&feature=related.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 9 2011, 04:13 AM
Posted by: Bull Sep 9 2011, 06:50 AM
Well hell. Since my job is Amish Taxi Driver... Hrmm. Where *is* my money coming from?
And I've said it before, i'll say it again. Don't try imposing the real world onto Shadowrun too hard. it breaks when you do. Always has, always will. Which is fine, since it's, ya know, just a game.
Bull
Posted by: Blade Sep 9 2011, 07:02 AM
I agree that the world as described in the books isn't as dystopic as it used to be. Mind you, I remember in 1990, when SR1 was released, there were people showing how the pollution would destroy the world in 2000. And Shadowrun was that future. Now, Shadowrun is still today's future but the world has changed. Some call it post-cyberpunk. It might make a little more sense in some areas to the cost of flavor.
But I still think the GM has enough leeway to interpret what's said in the books in a way that will make the world as dystopic as it used to be. In http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=35751 I'm trying to describe a world that is dystopic but still makes sense and doesn't clash too much with established canon.
Posted by: Sengir Sep 9 2011, 12:06 PM
I'd rather eat soy than something fungus-infected (ergot poisoning is no joke) grown by an amateur farmer on best Redmond earth
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 9 2011, 12:28 PM
as long as you have a mage near by that can do clean element(earth/water/air) all is good.
Posted by: jaellot Sep 9 2011, 12:49 PM
I chuckled, thanks.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 9 2011, 02:21 PM
It's not just for Mary Jane any longer!
Posted by: Sengir Sep 9 2011, 02:50 PM
Won't help you against pollutants in the air and water, plus their are a breeding ground for fungi and bacteria
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/coli-outbreak-sprouts-german-investigators/story?id=13812166
People tend to forget that "natural" does not equate "healthy", especially if done by amateurs with good intentions.
Posted by: Neraph Sep 9 2011, 04:02 PM
Dog poop is all natural, but you won't see me eating it.
Posted by: Mardrax Sep 9 2011, 04:11 PM
You show me something that's unnatural and I'm sure someone will be willing to give you a prize for it.
Depleted uranium is just as natural as a beaver dam, after all.
This silly human arrogance of seeing ourselves and what we do as separate from nature confuses me.
Posted by: Draco18s Sep 9 2011, 04:35 PM
Depleted uranium is just as natural as a beaver dam, after all.
This silly human arrogance of seeing ourselves and what we do as separate from nature confuses me.
Rutherfordium? Dubnium? Seaborgium?
None of them are naturally occurring anywhere in the universe.
Posted by: Neraph Sep 9 2011, 04:42 PM
Depleted uranium is just as natural as a beaver dam, after all.
This silly human arrogance of seeing ourselves and what we do as separate from nature confuses me.
Maybe you haven't seen me post too much, but I'm actually smarter than that. I was using the conventional term for everyone else's benefit. "Natural" or "Organic" in this context means that no hard pesticides or chemical treatments have been done to the plants.
None of them are naturally occurring anywhere in the universe.
Einsteinium?
Posted by: Mardrax Sep 9 2011, 04:49 PM
None of them are naturally occurring anywhere in the universe.
When we make them, they are created through a part of nature, through a natural process, and are thus natural.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 9 2011, 04:54 PM
Naturally...
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 9 2011, 04:55 PM
So coca cola is natural by that reasoning?
Posted by: HunterHerne Sep 9 2011, 05:20 PM
None of them are naturally occurring anywhere in the universe.
Anywhere that we have been able to get information from. for all we know "Dark Matter" could contain these and more elements.
Nothing is natural about that drek, no matter how you twist it.
Posted by: Zaranthan Sep 9 2011, 05:54 PM
So, I pick up the ball, and throw it to Naturally?
Posted by: Sengir Sep 9 2011, 05:59 PM
My favourite example for ridiculing the natural=good, "chemical"=bad faith is the chloride-based chemical preservative found in nearly every food
But BTT, I just had an idea concerning the sleazy fixers: Most runners who are just starting out will have some seedy thug as their fixer. And once they have some experience under their belt, who is the guy they can trust from experience?
Posted by: Draco18s Sep 9 2011, 06:07 PM
Rutherfordium specifically has a half life of under 6 hours, so no, Dark Matter can't contain it (the "it emits radioactive particles" kind of precludes it from the "neither emits nor scatters radiation" definition).
Rutherfordium is also really, really dense, being Element #104, so probably hasn't been around since the dark ages of the universe.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 9 2011, 08:31 PM
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 9 2011, 09:20 PM
But BTT, I just had an idea concerning the sleazy fixers: Most runners who are just starting out will have some seedy thug as their fixer. And once they have some experience under their belt, who is the guy they can trust from experience?
Except that those chemicals ARE actually bad for you in the long run.
Posted by: HunterHerne Sep 9 2011, 09:23 PM
True. Look at Diet Pepsi vs. Pepsi. The sugar replacement in diet pepsi has fewer calories, but the aspertame is more likely to cause cancer after a few (10-20) years.
Posted by: Draco18s Sep 9 2011, 09:56 PM
Exactly.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 9 2011, 10:57 PM
It's also one of the things I love about Winnipeg, a lot of locally-made goods are here. Food prices are a bit more than they were back home, but I'm pretty sure my bread isn't about to give me cancer faster than D20.
Posted by: HunterHerne Sep 9 2011, 11:11 PM
It's also one of the things I love about Winnipeg, a lot of locally-made goods are here. Food prices are a bit more than they were back home, but I'm pretty sure my bread isn't about to give me cancer faster than D20.
Always a nice thing to know. However, I prefer to not throw out my bread every day, as I will never eat a full loaf.
Posted by: kzt Sep 10 2011, 04:20 AM
It's largely composed of carbon compounds, so it's "organic".
Posted by: CanRay Sep 10 2011, 05:02 AM
Arsenic is "Organic" and "All Natural" as well.
Posted by: Shinobi Killfist Sep 10 2011, 05:33 AM
About the fixers. No fixer is alone, even the low end sleazy ones. He may not be part of an organization, but he isn't alone, his entire job is about not being alone. That low rent fixer in the barrens knows a guy in Lonestar, he has a friend in the supply depot at the local army base, he knows a chop shop crew, he has friends in doc wagon etc. He knows how to make friends and influence people, he knows how to keep under the radar and keep his lines secure. At the end of the day a fixer is just someone with a big Rolodex and a knack for putting the right people in that Rolodex together. There is nothing in SR4 that implies this would go away. Maybe they do things a bit different in missions but missions isn't all of SR4.
Posted by: Sengir Sep 10 2011, 01:01 PM
Salt is plain necessary for humans, but as usual dosis facit venenum. And even if our body did not require it, there is a reason why people use salt and other preservatives since millenia...Ironically, a lot of people have forgotten that because preservatives work so well and people no longer have half their neighborhood wiped out from food poisoning.
The thing about doses also applies to Aspartame: I you drank 50 l of diet coke a day, you will indeed have an increased long-term risk of several cancer and some other nasties. So better drink that much water, the water poisoning would kill you on the spot and thereby avoid any long-term effects.
If you drink it in normal doses, however, the few mg of Aspartame are in insignificant contribution to the carcinogenic substances we are exposed to every day from completely natural sources alone - natural radioactivity, the hydrocarbons responsible for the taste of cooked food, fungi and microorganisms on raw food...
Posted by: CanRay Sep 10 2011, 02:35 PM
Posted by: Neraph Sep 11 2011, 04:20 PM
Last week > 6 hour half-life of rutherfordium.
Posted by: Sengir Sep 11 2011, 05:01 PM
$1stWeekday, 02:00
Posted by: Draco18s Sep 11 2011, 05:24 PM
That's only 28 half-lives ago.
1 particle in 268,435,456 would still be around.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 11 2011, 05:33 PM
1 particle in 268,435,456 would still be around.
Such a Geek... Heh.
Posted by: Rubic Sep 11 2011, 06:27 PM
No, you throw the ball to Who.
As far as the main topic goes, mix to suit your flavor. Even in modern times there are plenty of people too poor to get by, earning minimum wage and living in one step shy of a commune because rent and property costs are too expensive. As somebody who's been in that sort of situation for a while now, I can tell you that concerns such as eating healthy are secondary to the concerns of eating and having a roof over your head. In a poor economy, it can be hard to get a job even at the bottom of the barrel for any length of time.
Take that, and magnify it to get the world of Shadowrun for an equivalent point in the future. There are many new advances, many shiny new gadgets, and some of that bleeds over into second-hand goods, and people who have inside connections, but that doesn't necessarily discount the suffering and despair that many people live in or scrape by with. After all, bad soy or empty carbs are better than hungry to most people. In a world recovering from such disasters and on the cusp of another indefinable and potentially greater calamity, who's to say what people are considering themselves lucky to have?
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