Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Shadowrun: Our Orks Are Cuter
Posted by: CanRay Oct 14 2011, 08:55 PM
http://tacticalhamster.deviantart.com/art/Shortcake-262957239
Just found this surfing around dA.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 14 2011, 09:01 PM
This is clearly the fault of the 4th ed. Gunslinger Adept art. This is what you get when you have cute Japanese ork chicks.
Posted by: Miri Oct 14 2011, 09:04 PM
I think that qualifies for Distinctive Appearance at level 9000.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 14 2011, 09:06 PM
Come on, now. It's clearly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik.
Posted by: SecGuard Oct 14 2011, 09:49 PM
Arrgh!!!!!!
Thanks for that.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 14 2011, 10:42 PM
And she can *STILL* kick ass hard enough to draw blood.
Posted by: Tiralee Oct 14 2011, 10:42 PM
You should see our trolls
-Tir
(Actually, you will see the once I figure out how to host them again)
Posted by: Tiralee Oct 14 2011, 11:32 PM
Kat - our familiar Troll mage (and with a pic that the player's finally happy with) http://www.4shared.com/photo/h7wgFlER/Kat_2.html
There are also some in progress (undergoing shading before colouring) by our artist. RaTH (the decker) is loved by all (http://www.4shared.com/photo/dCtYckju/Rath.html)
Do browse the SR3 folder:)
-Tir
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 14 2011, 11:53 PM
Ahahaha, yes, yes! That player needs to hang out with my wife 
Posted by: Draco18s Oct 15 2011, 12:04 AM
MIEN EYES. THEY ARE BLEEDING RAINBOWS.
(And people wonder why furies hate sparkle dogs).
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 12:47 AM
Other than the nearly unnoticable "tusks," which are anything but, I don't see anything about her in the picture that indicates that's supposed to be an ork. Pretty crappy in that regard alone. The blinding colors don't bother me in the least. Just makes her dead.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 01:16 AM
(And people wonder why furies hate sparkle dogs).
Posted by: ggodo Oct 15 2011, 01:50 AM
I hate this picture so hard, I wish I could hate it to death.
Posted by: toturi Oct 15 2011, 01:55 AM
I have a confession to make. It probably will not shock anyone who has been on the boards for a while.
I actually like the picture.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 01:57 AM
My work here is done...
...
...
Oh, I'm not going anywhere. I can still do so much more. 
Posted by: Neraph Oct 15 2011, 02:16 AM
That is disturbing.
I actually like the picture.
I have to agree, actually.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 03:14 AM
The thing I hate most about SR4 is the propagation of the idea that anyone not dressed head to toe in all black is instakilled. In a world of people where low-light and thermo vision are commonplace, you aren't hiding from anybody in a black bodysuit. If anything, a van full of dudes dressed all in black rolling through the hood should be an automatic beacon for the cops. Bright colors and stupid hair? Must be club kids. Grim dudes dressed in all black? Probably up to no good...
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 03:17 AM
Hense the pink mohawks. Camouflage.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 03:17 AM
Exactly.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 03:26 AM
Fiberoptic hair is still a popular modification as well. Skin tinting has gone away, but Nanotats are in!
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 03:35 AM
That's one end of the scale. Dressing up as Strawberry Shortcake with a rainbow colored assault rifle slung across your back is the other end of the scale. Unfortunately for your argument, most people are in the middle.
Ms. Shortcake will easily be targeted first in a combat situation. Not only is she more visible even in the worst of conditions, judging solely by the replies in this thread, people will aim for her just out of spite of looking so stupid.
Hence, she's as good as dead if she tries to do anything even remotely espionage related. Unless that espionage is breaking into a nightclub or something equally benign. 'Course, then the assault rifle on her back makes her a primary target even then.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 03:39 AM
As a Hacker or other support role, however...
Posted by: Saint Hallow Oct 15 2011, 03:40 AM
I guess no one cosplays anymore. Feel real bad for anyone who tries to pretend to be Karl the Kombatmage at a local con.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 03:43 AM
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 03:43 AM
Ms. Shortcake will easily be targeted first in a combat situation. Not only is she more visible even in the worst of conditions, judging solely by the replies in this thread, people will aim for her just out of spite of looking so stupid.
Hence, she's as good as dead if she tries to do anything even remotely espionage related. Unless that espionage is breaking into a nightclub or something equally benign. 'Course, then the assault rifle on her back makes her a primary target even then.
Most people are on the "dressed like an extra in The Matrix" side of the scale, which is pretty far from the middle. The middle would be "dressed like a normal person", which nobody does because if you paid 900
for an armor jacket, you're sure as hell going to wear it everywhere.I doubt anyone goes on an espionage run with an assault rifle slung over their shoulder, so it's doubtful that would be a problem. Either she lives in a rough neighborhood, or she's out for a full-out assault mission. Either way, her ability to match colors isn't likely to come into play. I'm not super fond of the outfit, but it's a step in the right direction: Shadowrunners feel more "real" to me when there's something a little off about them.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 03:57 AM
That's not "a little off." That's "completely off the scale of sanity." At least pink mohawk types can blend into the streets where punkish styling is fairly common. Even then, some idiot dressed like Strawberry Shortcake is going to stand out. As in not blend in. Anywhere, except some stupid nightclub, and even then she'd likely still stand out just from the sheer absurdity of it.
Being a little off is fine. This is not a little off.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 04:00 AM
That could be her Matrix Icon. That'd fit right in. 
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 04:05 AM
it's 2070. Who would even recognize Strawberry Shortcake? Also, have you seen a Hipster lately? The outfit isn't my style, but it's not inconceivable. If Japan wasn't so racist against Orks, I could easily imagine this girl running around Shibuya. Ever read Fruits magazine? This outfit is par for the course:
http://haikucouture.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/fruits-6.jpg
http://www.japan-talk.com/images/jt//fruits-magazine-scans1871012655355972272.jpeg
http://lanceunemode.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/4clji34.jpg
http://www.japan-talk.com/images/jt/fruits-magazine-scans1871012655355972271.jpeg
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 04:08 AM
Mental note: Stay in Canada. Those outfits almost blinded me!
Posted by: Saint Hallow Oct 15 2011, 04:17 AM
I blame Gwen Stefani & the Harajuku girls... of course those girls can run around SR Seattle 2070.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 04:19 AM
http://haikucouture.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/fruits-6.jpg
http://www.japan-talk.com/images/jt//fruits-magazine-scans1871012655355972272.jpeg
http://lanceunemode.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/4clji34.jpg
http://www.japan-talk.com/images/jt/fruits-magazine-scans1871012655355972271.jpeg
Everything except the group on the left in the first picture would stand out like a sore thumb. Just because there's a handful of people walking around dressed like idiots, that in no way justifies that it's even remotely normal or goes unnoticed.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 04:37 AM
Dude....these are not an isolated group of crazies. This is what fashion kids walking around Shibuya look like. People actually dress like this, on purpose, in real life. They've been doing it for decades. Gwen Stefani showed up and tried to bite their style, but she toned it down a LOT for western audiences, because hey, your reaction here is probably pretty standard. They look kind of like clowns to western eyes.
The 2050's and a good part of the 60's saw a lot of Japanese influence on UCAS culture. It's not unreasonable to believe that there's a section of San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York City, etc. where kids dress like this.
I mean, if your point is just that you hate the art, that's fine, and I totally understand. I'm just saying...it's not an unreasonable way for the character to be dressed. I might not want to run with her, but someone else would.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 04:46 AM
Show me some official Shadowrun art, which is a reflection of the "norm" of the Sixth World, where the streets are crowded with blinding Strawberry Shortcakeish ork chicks. Or at least where she could blend in without anyone batting an eye. Even in some of the crazier stuff in Shadowbeat and 1st Edition you'll be hard pressed to find anything like that. And I can almost guarantee that you won't find anything like it for 4th Edition/the 2070s. Oddly enough, Unwired is one of the better sourcebooks for that, and most of that art is filled with somewhat punkish people in normal, everyday environments not too dissimilar from our own, albeit with a bit of AR thrown in. That's what the 2070s are like.
I don't mind the style fo the art at all, other than the fact that she doesn't look at all like an ork save for the feeble attempt to toss in some slightly-larger-than-average lower canines. The actual outfit itself, especially with the assault rifle (and you can dismiss it all you want; she's still toting it around like a fashion accessory), is simply absurd. Especially for anyone who makes their living in the shadows.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 05:22 AM
I've never seen official Shadowrun art depicting anyone playing Tetris; are we going to argue about the existence of Tetris in the world? SR forked off from our version of Earth around....what? Late 90's? They already had this kind of fashion in Japan by then. If you don't want it in your Seattle, fine. Hell, if you don't want it in canon Seattle, I'd be inclined to agree with you.
But places where Japanese street culture might have a bit more influence? Sure. And if we must go into "ridiculous clothes worn in official artwork", well....
SR3 Core Book:
- The Combat Decker is wearing cyclops glasses, a bright yellow t-shirt, a studded codpiece, and purple lycra bicycle shorts with thick orange socks and Doc Martens.
- The Drone Rigger is wearing an bright orange jumpsuit and Birkenstocks. He also has a goofy smile on his face and is surrounded by drones...way more obvious than a brightly colored assault rifle.
- The Adept is wearing nothing but purple spandex pants, a black belt, and what appear to be diving shoes.
- On page 48, Roweena the rigger (author of the "Elves" section) is wearing Pauldrons, for crissakes. So is Stella for Star, the ork mage illustrated on page 50.
- On the cover, the troll is wearing tiger print leggings, leather boots, a tank top, and a leopard print vest.
- The "Rumble in Redmond" illustration features a pink-mohawk girl wearing something that barely qualifies as pants, a mini tank top, and like a half dozen feathers.
SR4A
- Page 171, there's a woman riding rather improbably on the back of a motorcycle, not holding onto anything, and shooting at nothing in particular while casting a spell. She's dressed in a candy-apple red vinyl bustier with matching pants, matched up with neon green face paint. She is literally the most visible thing in the illustration, and that includes the giant explosion behind her.
- Page 157, there's a guy with shock-white hair standing straight up, dressed in a white bodysuit with an enormous collar that includes some kind of antennae coming up out of the sides to frame his head.
- Just look at the headdress on the street shaman on page 111 and tell me she'll blend into a crowd. Please.
- Ork Hacker on page 105 is wearing a yellow print hoodie matched with red/white track pants. He looks like he was dressed by two different mothers who both hated him.
- Page 72, The ork in the lineup is wearing booties with curled-up toes like a genie, orange print genie pants, a half shirt, two gold chains, and a goddamned orange cape. Oh, and spiked pauldrons. He looks utterly ridiculous next to the rest of the group, who are either dressed in paramilitary gear (dwarf and troll), or some kind of Steampunk dandy outfit (the human and elf).
Let me know if you want more.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 05:43 AM
Sorry, just wearing a bright color or two doesn't count. I'm wearing a neon-bright yellow t-shirt right now, but no one would bat an eye if I were walking down Main Street because of it whether I was wearing a jacket over it or not.
He's falling after a leap of some kind; those are simply laces. And yes, both he and the cyborg-thing would definitely stand out in a crowd. They're not the norm.
What makes you think he wears that on a daily basis? He's clearly performing some kind of ritual. And even if he did, it's not that outlandish in a world where magic has returned.
Again: A bright color or two does not equal Rainbow fucking Brite with a gay pride assault rifle.
What's that? "He looks uttery ridiculous next to the rest of the group?" If your claims were correct, he'd look absolutely normal, wouldn't he? Not that I agree that he looks ridiculous; at least the colors he's wearing are muted earth tones that can easily get lost in a crowd. He just has a bit of a bizarre fashion sense. Unlike Strawberry Shortcake prancing around like a twit.
I don't want more. If this was the best you could do, it was pretty pathetic. And, frankly, you're not going to change my mind. The fact that you think that ork is not only normal and acceptable, but a proper outfit for a shadowrunner... well, I'm not even going to bother finishing that sentence.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 05:46 AM
actually, counting ridiculous outfits in SR art is kinda fun.
Seattle 2072:
- Page 182, we have a female biker wearing nothing but a leather bra with horn nipples and what appear to be armored chaps. Somehow, she is managing to wear just one pauldron, which appears to be magically attached to her bra strap.
- Page 115, we have what I assume is a Desolation Angel dressed in a bra, a miniskirt, and thigh-high socks. Running around in public with a katana and a giant roach leg.
- Page 91, Ork in a brightly colored Hawaiian shirt, disguising himself as a human in a Hawaiian shirt.
- Page 77, dude in a woman's kimono shooting lightning out of his hands.
- Not ridiculous clothing, but page 68 has a female Ork with tiny tusks about the size of the ones in the illustration we were looking at. So apparently tiny tusks are canon? Sad.
- Page 31. Not sure what that thing is, but it's wearing a bikini top made of r ed feathers, and just the sleeves from a red shirt (no actual shirt, just the sleeves).
- Page 29, Female troll with blue dreads, some kind of armored-looking strapless bra, and hip huggers is being lynched to death.
Runner's Companion:
- Club Hopper on page 135 looks like she'd be right at home with a Strawberry Shortcake Ork girl.
- Page 47. Everything they're wearing is ridiculous. I can't even begin. I'm pretty sure the Giant in the bottom panel is just wearing a belt with no pants at all. Yet he still bothers to wear elbow pads and one pauldron. WTF is up with all of these pauldrons? Also, the Oni in the top panel kind of looks like Wario.
Runner Havens, page 124: Not even sure how to describe this. Some kind of billowy skirt and leather strappy bustier on the girl in front, the girl in the back appears to be wearing a body suit made out of leather belts. I'll let this one slide, since I think they're supposed to be hookers.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 05:51 AM
It's also worth pointing out that Corporate Enclaves has a brief section on the fashion district of Shibuya....so yes, it's canon. There is a place in SR where you can dress that badly and not be laughed out of town.
As for the list of examples....two things:
1. It's not about bright colors; for one thing, the art direction for the official books is "darker", since most of the pictures are supposed to happen at night. Our rainbow Ork is clearly chilling in the daytime, so she'll naturally look brighter.
2. The real point, to me, is how ridiculous the clothing itself is. In a world where studded codpieces, pauldrons, and nipple-spike bras are commonplace, I don't think Strawberry Shortcake is going to turn heads.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 06:02 AM
Fine.
That's a street gang. They're renowned for dressing like idiots. No exception here, and they do stand out. That's the whole point of their idiotic outfits.
She'd stand out... as someone construction workers would whistle at. She's got a punkish super model look going on. She'd get a few looks, but she wouldn't be a beacon of "shoot me, I look like a twat."
You mean the guy at a picnic of some kind, where dressing casually and a little silly is the norm? Once again: A bit of bright colors isn't a game changer. I don't know why you can't process that, or see how this is drastically different than that stupid ork chick.
The word you're looking for is "robe." And aside from the lightning shooting out of his hands -- ie, magic -- that's what makes him stand out in a crowd, not what he's wearing which isn't all that odd. Just wielding obvious magic gets people's attention.
Uhm, and this is you finding an example of the "norm" of the Sixth World? Or have you completely lost all sensibility of what you're supposed to be doing? You're finding the exceptions, not the rule.
You mean the chick who's clearly standing out in the crowd? See the previous response.
And with that one, I'm completely done with this. You can't even stay consistent with yourself ("look, I found a picture where I'm going to say someone looks ridiculous in the crowd, and that somehow proves that he doesn't look ridiculous in the crowd!!!"), let alone stay focused on what you were supposed to be finding.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 06:07 AM
Honestly, the second list was just me having fun laughing at some of the outfits in the official art. But really....if you can think of this many reasons why people in SR would be dressed ridiculously, doesn't that kind of undercut your argument against the Ork's outfits?
Posted by: Saint Hallow Oct 15 2011, 06:10 AM
I think Orks and Trolls would dress outlandishly because they ARE Orks and Trolls. Someone over 8' feet tall is going to stand out, no matter what color they are wearing. Might as well dress garish & look like you want attention, as you're gonna get it anyway. If you're the airport sec guard, who are you going to pay attention to more? The loud Ork & Troll in Hawaiian shirts talking loud & being obnoxious, or the guy in the shirt & pants trying to avoid eye contact with everyone?
Posted by: KarmaInferno Oct 15 2011, 06:25 AM
I am distinctly happy that at Origins 2011, the Shadowrun Missions Scramble LARP event happened one day BEFORE the political group that rented the ballroom upstairs had their conference. The group that had as a guest speaker the Vice President of the United States. And his small army of Secret Service dudes.
The men in black suits looked stressed enough trying to deal with a convention hall full of gamers. I cannot imagine how they would have reacted to a bunch of guys and gals dressed in paramilitary gear with fairly realistic weapon props.
-k
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 06:54 AM
Just found this surfing around dA.
Hmm. Upon examining the art again...she has horns. This is an Oni, not an Ork. Oni are supposed to have brightly colored skin and hair.
Posted by: Draco18s Oct 15 2011, 08:05 AM
Hey.
Hey.
I played a legitimate RPG game (uhh... Dragonstorm, is an RPG-cardgame-RPG) that took place in Ponyville.
Notably the entire party was in agreement on "turn into dragons, set the place on fire, and eat the inhabitants." Although we aborted that plan and ran for the hills when, upon transforming, the entire village went "OH, A DRAAAAGOOON!" and wanted autographs.
Posted by: Ryu Oct 15 2011, 10:44 AM
Be glad they´ve been posted. The ninja dropbear commandos just got reassigned to get JC instead.
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 15 2011, 11:04 AM
To start off - dude, this is someone's character. That they're enjoying playing. It's their call on how they want them to dress and act, and honestly, I think anyone critiquing them for that should take a second to examine their own biases.
Secondly, I think this just shows the weird and narrow focus people want to put on Shadowrun. "Black ops and silencers" can be fun, I'll never argue with you over that, but pink mohawk exists. So does cruising the club scene and immersing yourself in subculture, or hanging out with one of the NAN and enjoying the night scene or sneaking through Tokyo or New York to tag a wall with your mark.
Shadowrun is many things; to narrow the focus down to heavy espionage would be boring, I think.
C'mon, in the corebook there's a character dressed in steampunk clothes, which is arguably just as noticable as Shortcake here. Hell, most of the folks depicted in Shadowbeat would have drawn a strange look or two on the streets of Seattle.
Where would Shortcake work? LA. Or working the club scene somewhere. Or Japan (with the appropriate cultural bias, of course). Parts of Europe.
Yet another criticism against Attitude, sorry - but this is what I was expecting from that book. Discussion on the subcultures of the Sixth World. Not having an entire chapter on Dog the Bounty Hunter becoming famous and freaking out over it.
Also, the fact that there was nothing about fashion houses in either Europe or Japan is kind of representative on this. You're telling me that an industry that has the kind of intrigue, backstabbing, and general pettiness that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haute_couture does has no opportunity for shadowork? Don't agree with that. Or hell, just watch the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_Wears_Prada_(film) (avoid the book) and tell me that Miranda Priestly (or her "inspiration", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Wintour) wouldn't be the kind of person to hire deniable assets.
Hell, my wife and I were joking last night that the only reason Versace is still around is because Donatella is in bed with the mafia. Which is probably true.
tl;dr: JonathanC - Keep up the good work. You're good peoples.
(I took way too long to write this, and then I went and edited it again)
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 02:04 PM
For the love of God.
JohnathanC was the one saying that, apparently, only two forms of characters exist. Either all-black "Matrix" style characters, or this monstrosity of stupidity which is way above and beyond "pink mohawk." And that a van full of guys dressed in black lurking around a secure facility was somehow more suspicious than a van full of heavily armed clubkids lurking around a secure facility. I was the one saying that most runners are closer to the middle of those extremes. He's saying that most runners should look http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=36081&view=findpost&p=1115140. Which is just absurd.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 02:32 PM
JohnathanC was the one saying that, apparently, only two forms of characters exist. Either all-black "Matrix" style characters, or this monstrosity of stupidity which is way above and beyond "pink mohawk." And that a van full of guys dressed in black lurking around a secure facility was somehow more suspicious than a van full of heavily armed clubkids lurking around a secure facility. I was the one saying that most runners are closer to the middle of those extremes. He's saying that most runners should look http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=36081&view=findpost&p=1115140. Which is just absurd.
To be fair, I was talking about what most people play, not what canon Shadowrunners probably look like.
Also, why is this considered above and beyond pink mohawk? She's got brightly colored hair and clothing. She's obviously posing with the gun, so there's no reason to believe she's rolling into Auburn flashing that gun. We've already established that there are people right now who dress like that, as part of a Japanese fashion sub-culture. We've established that there is canon art of people running around in public wearing spiked underwear, so it's not like this is beneath the dignity of a person in the Sixth World..
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 02:34 PM
What did I do?
Posted by: Paul Oct 15 2011, 02:37 PM
I'm up front and happy with my bias. I hate the pink Mohawk, and it's not encouraged at my table. Obviously I won't show up at your table and try and tell you what to do, but yeah i think Pink Mohawk is crap and wish they'd stop trying to include it in the game. And since i'm a customer, and I pay for my books yeah I can ask. Now maybe the pink Mohawk crowd spends more than me, so I don't get my way but I'll keep asking.
Posted by: Miri Oct 15 2011, 03:07 PM
It is an Orc. The person who created the artwork in question said so in the description. For all you know she could be a SURGED character with head horns.
Posted by: JonathanC Oct 15 2011, 03:10 PM
*shrug* the illustration almost makes sense if it's an Oni, though. Brightly colored, Japanese (so possibly a fan of the fashion culture)....oh well.
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 15 2011, 03:39 PM
JohnathanC was the one saying that, apparently, only two forms of characters exist. Either all-black "Matrix" style characters, or this monstrosity of stupidity which is way above and beyond "pink mohawk." And that a van full of guys dressed in black lurking around a secure facility was somehow more suspicious than a van full of heavily armed clubkids lurking around a secure facility. I was the one saying that most runners are closer to the middle of those extremes. He's saying that most runners should look http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=36081&view=findpost&p=1115140. Which is just absurd.
That's actually not what he was arguing about at all. He's saying that the culture already exists - it's called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruits_(magazine), and it's something that if you ended up in Harajuku / Shibuya right now and walked around, you'd see people wearing it. Just like a ton of other subcultural fashion trends - of which there exists http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS449US449&gcx=w&q=japanese+cyber-fashion&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1440&bih=785, which might be more up your alley (if maybe a little too neon for some folks).
Yes, if a player showed up at an infiltration wearing that, I would be hard pressed not to nail them for it. But walking around the streets of Seattle, San Fran, LA, Tokyo, New York? Possibly doing work there not involving infiltration? I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Also, the bolded? Very judgmental. Might want to reel that in, seeing that it's as much an expression of rebellion as punk was back in the 70s. Just because you don't understand the language doesn't make it inherently inferior.
JonathanC, you and I need to discuss your knowledge of J-fashion. Someone else with a grasp of it? Awesome.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 15 2011, 03:52 PM
Shadowrunners are supposed to shown off as "Individualistic" in direct comparison to the "Drone" that is John/Jane Q. Wageslave. Even the folks that are pure "Ice Cold" professionals probably don't dress that way all the time. Life ain't all biz, Chummer. Hell, even "Pink Mohawks" will toss on an appropriate hat or helmet and blend in when they need to. As for the middle-of-the-road "Black Trenchcoat" crowd, well, they're nice professionals until the coats come off, then the septic pumper-truck full of drek hits the HVAC system.
But the main key is that they are their own people, unique in all the ways that matter, with their own style, flare, panache, and refusal to give in to authority. That's what makes them Cyberpunks. And I think that's what people forget far too often.
As I put it to one of my white trash welfare rapper classmates (Hey, at least he was "White Ghetto"!) many, many years ago, "No, you're not rebelling or being unique. You're in a clique just like the rest of your friends over there. Wearing the same clothing, listening to the same music, and refusing anyone that dares even the most slight difference acceptance. I'm the most unique person in this class, because I wear what I want...", and that's when I got knocked over and the boots to the head and ribs started.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 15 2011, 04:40 PM
Sorry, but if even in the books they talk about this stupid "fashion" trend being localized in some small district in the middle of nowhere, that's direct evidence that it isn't normal anywhere else.
And, yet again, just because there are tiny, isolated areas where some people do walk around dressed like that, it doesn't mean they blend in or that they go unnoticed. It may be a bit more expected in those areas, just like when furries show up at conventions, but that doesn't mean they don't stick out like a sore thumb. Doubly so the moment you step away from those miniscule, insignificant, worthless areas and go somewhere with substance.
Even worse is the logic he was using with the images he was finding. I'm still boggling at the one where he says the ork stands out in the crowd while (apparently oblivious to the fact) that he was supposed to be showing how grotesquely weird monstrosities like Strawberry Shortcake not only blended in, but was the ideal norm for most runners. And the ork in that photo wasn't even that bad unless you were specifically looking for someone with a mildly weird fashion sense. Hell, most of the pictures he pointed out were just people wearing something other than black, as if that somehow proved his point.
I understand the language. It's just a very stupid language. Just like the "language" furries speak.
Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 15 2011, 04:49 PM
I have to agree, actually.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lokhn1lsND1r05905o1_500.jpg
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 15 2011, 04:59 PM
Sorry, Not sure how to copy the link as it was originally posted by Ravensmuse...
Interesting...
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 16 2011, 12:13 AM
You've related Vivienne Westwood with bondage porn. I think I can safely step out of the conversation now. If you don't understand the inherent rebellion in the imagery, than it's not for you.
Look up the Japanese design house "Fotus" (don't know how to do the umlauts on here) or beast:beauty. Several nice images, I just couldn't find ones that weren't going to link to, um, less than safe images
Posted by: Fabe Oct 16 2011, 12:23 AM
And, yet again, just because there are tiny, isolated areas where some people do walk around dressed like that, it doesn't mean they blend in or that they go unnoticed. It may be a bit more expected in those areas, just like when furries show up at conventions, but that doesn't mean they don't stick out like a sore thumb. Doubly so the moment you step away from those miniscule, insignificant, worthless areas and go somewhere with substance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibuya,_Tokyois not some " miniscule, insignificant, worthless area" it's a major fashion district in Tokyo.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 16 2011, 12:48 AM
No I didn't.
See ya.
Again, I understand it. That doesn't make it any less sad nor any less stupid.
But no, you guys are right. When a clubkid go walking down Main Street, no one so much as notices. It's totally the norm. Instead, people are gawking and staring at the people dressed and acting, you know, like normal people. Yes sir. You've nailed it. Strawberry Shortcake is the way all runners should look because it lets them blend in everywhere they go, not just at some obnoxious fetish nightclub or a pitifully small area in Tokyo.
Yeah, it's http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Shibuya-ku_in_Tokyo_Prefecture_Ja.svg. All 15 square kilometers of it. My bad. And everything that goes on there is so normal in the other 499,999,985 square kilometers of the planet that they didn't need to talk about this outlier of a tiny, insignificant community of 200,000 people, of which the sad little fetish anime fans are a tiny proportion thereof. Screw the other 6,999,800,000+ people out there. They're the ones that draw attention.
I don't know what I was thinking.
Posted by: Shortstraw Oct 16 2011, 12:58 AM
Do you really think people would even notice the clothes with all the AR overlays in bright colours everywhere.
Posted by: Tanegar Oct 16 2011, 12:58 AM
Presumably, she has the Human-Looking quality.
I don't think it's wearing anything, actually. That artwork is from the cover of Bug City, and the thing in question is some kind of insect spirit.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 16 2011, 01:58 AM
Posted by: EKBT81 Oct 16 2011, 10:24 AM
IMO SR illustrations differ far too widely in style to presume anything regarding "canon". Especially ork appearance in illustrations has always varied tremendously.
I'd imagine that the size of ork tusks is actually a continuous scale from "not externally visible" (i.e. Human-looking quality) to the very pronounced "orky" end of the scale. Maybe tusks are a secondary sex characteristic and male orks have on average bigger tusks?
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 16 2011, 12:18 PM
It's funny to see the couple of Dumpshock names commenting on the original piece, by the way.
Posted by: cleggster Oct 16 2011, 01:23 PM
Personaly I love it. I look at that and I got to wonder what her story is. Assuming that she is not a spolied rich girl who is trying to get killed on her fathers dime that is. If not then why is she running the shadows. She dosn't seem to have the "my life sucks so hard I have to" mentality. And, if nothing else, it's different. Different is always good. And I admit to sometimes loving me some pink mohawks.
Posted by: Neraph Oct 16 2011, 02:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7X9MQi7uOU.
Posted by: Fabe Oct 16 2011, 06:32 PM
Does any one else think it would great if some Dancers in Star Trek cosplay showed up and turn the whole thing into a super Geeky-nerd fest version of "You got Served" ?
Posted by: Saint Hallow Oct 16 2011, 06:48 PM
It has to happen now. Some Star Trek folks have to goto the Star Wars shows at Disney & start an old fashioned dance-off throwdown.
Posted by: Shortcake Oct 16 2011, 06:53 PM
Hello, all!
I am Shortcake's player, and as I've gotten permission to join this forum, I'd love to answer any (non-critical) questions you all may have about my character. First off, though, I'll try to straighten up some of the questions already asked and implied in previous posts.
Shortcake is indeed an oni, a subspecies of ork. This is why she has her brightly colored skin and why she has her horns.
Shortcake dresses in the http://www.miseducated.net/?p=7554 style, one of the many trends in Japanese fashion. In our game, retro styles and trends are coming back with a modern twist to them.
Shortcake, is, as you all pointed out, very obvious. She is not sneaky. She is not intended to be sneaky, and in fact provides a wonderful distraction for the rest of the team. As some of you have said, she would draw fire and likely be shot at first. While some might consider this an insult, Shortcake is the tank of the group. She can handle being shot at and can handle taking bullets, providing a meat shield between the enemies and her more squishy friends. As well, all eyes are drawn to her whenever she walks into an area, and that means all those eyes are now off of her friends, which mean those sneaky-types in the group have an easier time of slipping past guards, getting into a building, etc.
I do not believe that anybody has said that Shortcake's style is how runners should dress. Instead, it's a possibility for how a runner could. When she needs to be sneakier, she dresses more somberly and hides her hair.
With regards to her gun, of course she's not firing it in this pose. When I commissioned the artist, I asked her to give me a playful, energetic, fun pose. This was not a piece intended to show Shortcake firing down a few ghouls. And yes, she has guns like that. She uses her armorer skill to modify the gun until it looks as retro-80's as she wants. Perverse? Yes. But that's rather par for the course, for an ork.
And lastly, the woman I commissioned is a brilliant artist and a very nice person. She has never played Shadowrun and didn't even know what it was until I commissioned her, and I was very appreciative of her being willing to pick up my character and try something new. I never bothered her about the size of the tusks because I never felt a need to. Shortcake is heavily cybered and has done quite a lot with her appearance.
With this all said, I'd be glad to answer any other questions or comments people have regarding my character.
Posted by: Kesendeja Oct 16 2011, 07:01 PM
Frankly I'd play her, she sounds like a lot of fun.
Posted by: Shortcake Oct 16 2011, 07:32 PM
She is indeed a lot of fun
I generally enjoy playing quirkier characters, and what's more quirky than a Shadowrunner who's exceedingly good at drawing attention to his- or herself? And then giggling when the bullets do nothing?
Posted by: CanRay Oct 16 2011, 08:16 PM
So... She's Robin to the rest of the group's Batman.
A colourful layer of ablative meat.
...
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-10-11
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 16 2011, 08:23 PM
Love it. Love it love it love it. It sounds like you've got a great handle on both the character and the kind of world you want her to live in.
I am very excited to show your post to my wife (who has started her own account on here and is waiting on validation
)Cheers!
Forgot this -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zWNJHS9PBE
Posted by: tehana Oct 16 2011, 09:26 PM
Hey guys. I feel a little silly this being my first post on here but I wanted to speak a little bit about the role I can see fashion playing in Shadowrun.
Sorry this got so long. I know I wrote a term paper here but it’s something I’m really passionate about. I hope that sheds a little different perspective on the subject. I do tend to play characters that probably would get kicked out by most GMs but I also play Shadowrun to escape and have fun, while shooting people in the face for money.
Oops! Almost forgot! A neat bit of info that I found last night while researching for my own fiction. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8659421/Mafia-mobsters-banned-from-wearing-designer-label-clothes.html about how a prison in Palermo (Home of Cosa Nostra) Italy is cracking down on designer fashions being worn by imprisoned Mafia members. She decided to do it because of the level of status the wearers were trying to create through their fashion! Weirdly tangential but it’s neat to see that they were using it to communicate their status’ of wealth even in prison!
Posted by: Paul Oct 16 2011, 09:46 PM
The good news is I can hate anime (Or whatever) inspired Shadowrun, and all that goes along with it and you can love it and neither of is wrong. We can each run the game at our own table, the way we want.
Posted by: DMiller Oct 16 2011, 10:14 PM
http://haikucouture.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/fruits-6.jpg
http://www.japan-talk.com/images/jt//fruits-magazine-scans1871012655355972272.jpeg
http://lanceunemode.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/4clji34.jpg
http://www.japan-talk.com/images/jt/fruits-magazine-scans1871012655355972271.jpeg
Wow those are TAME! You should hang out there at night. Of course there are other places besides Shibuya that are just as bad or worse(especially at night).
@Shortcake
I Love your character (and the art). It seems to be a great fit for your game world (and would likely do well in mine as well).
-D
Posted by: Saint Hallow Oct 16 2011, 10:17 PM
I've seen the Triumph insult dog sketch for SW before. I would like to see a funny, well-done viral of a SW fan & a ST fan go head-to-head in something fun. Paintball. Dance-off. Rap battle. Lightsaber vs Klingon Batleth (spelling?).
Posted by: CanRay Oct 17 2011, 12:39 AM
Posted by: Paul Oct 17 2011, 12:53 AM
I've met some of the people writing these games. Trust me when I say if they showed up on my doorstep I'd feel pretty safe in saying fear of physical harm is amongst the last emotional responses I'd feel.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 17 2011, 01:08 AM
Heh, good thing I don't start writing then. *Fondles my entrenching tool*
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Oct 17 2011, 02:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crtcgzOpplQ
Posted by: Hagga Oct 17 2011, 03:44 AM
Why does everything from Deviantart terrify me?
Also: Jesus fuck WHAT?
Posted by: CanRay Oct 17 2011, 04:36 AM
Posted by: Saint Hallow Oct 17 2011, 05:11 AM
Odd thing about Anime is that it will happily merge cyberpunk with magic without a moment of hesitation. It's the art style & how most of the younger players like having "pretty looking" metahumans or "more palatable" ugliness. Maybe that's why vampires have gone from scary looking http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh242/vn107/nosferatu.jpg to now http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/8/26/3181ea03-c293-43d3-93a2-af2be997e945.jpg
There are some Anime series that do make the attempt for dark, gritty appearances.
As for the Anime inspiration to SR... I think SR was around before the anime craze really started catching wind in the US. Look at edition 1 art... nothing anime about it.
Posted by: Wakshaani Oct 17 2011, 05:15 AM
[snipery]
Hey hon! Nice to see you stepping out into another board now and again. Missed you!
Back to the topic at hand, it should be noted that Shadowrun's own fashion trends change from artist to artist and edition to edition ... retro cowboy was big in 2050, but you don't see too much of it in the 2070's, now do you?
Long coats and shades were a Thing for a while, but who knows?
Maybe 2012, all the corporate types will be dressed like 50's style greasers and poodle-skirted secretaries, while the rebellious types go with close-cropped ducktails and excellent hygine.
Of course, given my druthers, it'd be a return to the 1930's, when Zoot Suits were a sign of a swingin' cat and all men wore hats.
HATS!!!
Posted by: Wakshaani Oct 17 2011, 05:24 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eg04Zz3CERw/SZJ58FmrQAI/AAAAAAAAA8E/N9eiAfqiCfE/s400/TouchOfEvil2.jpg
Hats!
(Edit)
Well drat, THAT didn't work. Changing from embedded to just a link.
*grumble*
Posted by: Miri Oct 17 2011, 05:24 AM
Hey hon! Nice to see you stepping out into another board now and again. Missed you!
Back to the topic at hand, it should be noted that Shadowrun's own fashion trends change from artist to artist and edition to edition ... retro cowboy was big in 2050, but you don't see too much of it in the 2070's, now do you?
Long coats and shades were a Thing for a while, but who knows?
Maybe 2012, all the corporate types will be dressed like 50's style greasers and poodle-skirted secretaries, while the rebellious types go with close-cropped ducktails and excellent hygine.
Of course, given my druthers, it'd be a return to the 1930's, when Zoot Suits were a sign of a swingin' cat and all men wore hats.
HATS!!!
Hell yeah, a nice smoking hot Fedora for the Face.. and the gunbunny can wear the little Bowler hat.
Posted by: Wakshaani Oct 17 2011, 05:30 AM
Stick a Troll in an ill-fighting suit, give him a broken nose, and you have a nice gorilla, right?
"Hey Palooka! How's about you show dis here wise guy da bizness?"
Shadowrun: It comes in all flavors.
Posted by: Miri Oct 17 2011, 05:31 AM
"Hey Palooka! How's about you show dis here wise guy da bizness?"
Shadowrun: It comes in all flavors.
Oh.. and can have the brownie hiding behind him with the Assault rifle and the urge to introduce you to it!
Posted by: tehana Oct 17 2011, 05:53 AM
Hey hon! Nice to see you stepping out into another board now and again. Missed you!
Back to the topic at hand, it should be noted that Shadowrun's own fashion trends change from artist to artist and edition to edition ... retro cowboy was big in 2050, but you don't see too much of it in the 2070's, now do you?
Long coats and shades were a Thing for a while, but who knows?
Maybe 2012, all the corporate types will be dressed like 50's style greasers and poodle-skirted secretaries, while the rebellious types go with close-cropped ducktails and excellent hygine.
Of course, given my druthers, it'd be a return to the 1930's, when Zoot Suits were a sign of a swingin' cat and all men wore hats.
HATS!!!
Heys! Yes, you have a very good point that's valid. Mad Men is making a comeback. So you never know, poodle skirts might not be far behind. I'd be so excited by Zoot Suits though. Seriously classic, gorgeous fashion there. Gah, now I have ideas for characters!
Posted by: Glyph Oct 17 2011, 05:54 AM
You know, if a troll offered to introduce me to his "little friend", and a brownie with an assault rifle stepped out from behind him, I'd actually be relieved.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Oct 17 2011, 06:18 AM
I have in fact seen a lot of 50s style business suits in stores lately, with the classic square shoulders and stylized lapels.
-k
Posted by: tehana Oct 17 2011, 06:21 AM
-k
I'm mostly on the women's end of things but I've seen a big jump sales of my 50's semi formal dresses. Its neat to hear that its making a comeback for men as well!
Posted by: Shortcake Oct 17 2011, 07:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g&ob=av3e
This one's for you, Scratch. Enjoy.
@ DMiller Thanks so much! I admit that she's quite the character. Sometimes it's less that she fits into the world than that the world bends around her antics. I've got a lovely GM who's fully utilized Shortcake's brazenness, though, and the team she runs with is really good at using her as the decoy/distraction. Also, she loves making things go boom. Goes hand in hand with the distraction bit.
I'm contemplating commissioning another piece from tacticalhamster with Shortcake in her more 'casual' clothing and shooting down something; if that happens, I suppose I'll post it up here, since the thread's already been made.
@ tehana
I've definitely seen the rise in retro revival, ranging from the 30's to about the 60's. It's pretty exciting, since I've got the right coloring/body for it, yaaay \o/
Also I loved reading your small essay on fashion :3 You hit the nail on what Shortcake's doing, and past that, it was just fun to learn something new about fashion as a cultural statement and a way of showing rank.
Posted by: Saint Hallow Oct 17 2011, 07:16 AM
I'll happily embrace the fashion if the women in NYC start looking like http://www.swingfashionista.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/JoanHollowayMadMen.jpg, http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wJsJSwx4rDU/Tf4h8YWp4TI/AAAAAAAAA6E/1TGWKRcn_DU/s1600/Joan-Holloway1.jpg, or http://dc-cdn.virtacore.com/2010/10/christina_hendricks.jpg
Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 17 2011, 07:29 AM
...why am I imagining an fat Asian ork, like Odd Jobb from "Goldfinger", with a LMG?
Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 17 2011, 09:06 AM
Use a white suit and we are at clockwork orange.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 17 2011, 10:02 AM
I have no doubt there is a gang of snappily dressed Russian elves beating people for fun in Seattle or New York.
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 17 2011, 10:36 AM
Dear lord I'm a nerd.
You're right, there wasn't much art influence from Japan at the time of 1st edition (but personally, Laubenstein is is own little variation of weird) but it did come out at about the time it was starting to catch on. The Ghost in the Shell movie had come out over here, and lots of people were being exposed to the style through Macross (of which there are elements that are perfectly SR), Dominion Tank Police, and Battle for the Planets. It was starting to get some cultural cache in the West.
And Shirow is crazy appropriate for SR. If you've never looked at http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS449US449&gcx=w&q=masamune+shirow&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1440&bih=785, it's beautiful and full of the stuff that would make geeks glee.
Posted by: Faraday Oct 17 2011, 10:45 AM
On topic. I like the character and the illustration is pretty amazing. Damn fine artwork from the small SURGEd horns to the blood-spattered boots.
Posted by: Wakshaani Oct 17 2011, 04:48 PM
So, the people have spoken... next year's Shadowrun needs to have a throwback to classic suits and ever-lovin' hats.
HATS!
Posted by: Backgammon Oct 17 2011, 05:14 PM
On topic. I like the character and the illustration is pretty amazing. Damn fine artwork from the small SURGEd horns to the blood-spattered boots.
I visualize and imagine the SR world as a combination of Ghost in the Shell, Blade Runner, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoRwOux7Ofw&feature=relmfu.
The Gentlemen, a gang detailed in the PDF "10 Gangs" book, are a Hong Kong gang dedicated to impersonating 1930's america gangsters. Convergence of Fallout Vegas meets Ghost in the Shell. CRAZYNESS
Posted by: Cenobite Oct 18 2011, 04:30 AM
Hi! Personally, I like your character and hope you have a lot of fun with it.
I thought you were dead.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 18 2011, 08:30 AM
TV Tropes have a term for a similar thing - "Obfuscating Stupidity". When people see a ditzy ork in a pink dress, they don't suppose she's going to whip out an assault rifle and mow them down the next moment, throw a grenade and backflip into cover or just wave her hand and the next thing they know they're on their backs trying to recall what brand of truck just ran them over. Knowing cultural osmosis, Shibuya fashion is probably going to become de rigueur for rebellious teens who go clubbing instead of studying for 16 hours a day - the "useless but harmless" type.
I made a similar character for Vampire the Masquerade once. Maybe not so out there, but still, she usually wore flower-print clothes and acted like a kid (looking like a 15-year-old didn't help).
Posted by: ravensmuse Oct 18 2011, 12:36 PM
Thought you were.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 18 2011, 01:26 PM
Now ain't that shadowtalk at its finest.
Posted by: tehana Oct 18 2011, 01:38 PM
Aww I missed you too <3
Posted by: Grinder Oct 18 2011, 03:00 PM
This is no IC-thread, mkay?
Posted by: CanRay Oct 18 2011, 04:10 PM
I thought they'd be taller, myself.
Posted by: Shortcake Oct 18 2011, 05:04 PM
I made a similar character for Vampire the Masquerade once. Maybe not so out there, but still, she usually wore flower-print clothes and acted like a kid (looking like a 15-year-old didn't help).
Gotta love TV Tropes. Thank you, that's a good term to describe her.
I'm ashamed to say I've never played Vampire, though I'd love to some day. Your character sounds very disarming, in all senses of the word! Hurrah for obfuscating stupidity.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 18 2011, 05:51 PM
I'm ashamed to say I've never played Vampire, though I'd love to some day. Your character sounds very disarming, in all senses of the word! Hurrah for obfuscating stupidity.
Yeah, you don't expect a fifteen-year-old to suddenly whip out a pistol from her cute backpack, do a backflip behind the couch and shoot two mooks armed with submachine guns, then shout "That was fun!" to another PC who was searching a nearby room. Also, she was a very sane Malkavian. All three of her personalities were.
During a PBF campaign that was a little more epic than expected, she also had an interesting method of shaking off mind probes.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 18 2011, 10:43 PM
"Want to probe my memories? Fine, I've seen John Diefenbaker naked!"
Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 19 2011, 06:44 AM
Well, almost. Ponies, bubblegum and stuff like that. If she was nice.
Posted by: Blade Oct 19 2011, 07:50 AM
Posted by: pbangarth Oct 19 2011, 01:11 PM
*shudder* I can just imagine where else he had hanging jowls.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Oct 31 2011, 01:19 PM
http://blog.riflegear.com/archive/2007/12/26/hello-kitty-ar-15---evil-black-rifle-meets-cute-and.aspx
-k
Posted by: tehana Oct 31 2011, 01:25 PM
-k
Weird timing! Totally just postedhttp://fc03.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2005/289/a/f/louis_vuitton_murakami_sks_by_peter_gronquist.jpgin the Ladies thread.
Posted by: Paul Oct 31 2011, 04:14 PM
Things like that weapon are why characters that use them, or use a style like the Ork earlier in the thread would quickly end up quickly dead, under arrest or as a volunteer for some sort of corporate program that's test driving the latest cybergadget or retrovirus in mine own game. Distinctive style say hello to the modern world.
Posted by: CanRay Oct 31 2011, 05:33 PM
-k
Posted by: Neurosis Oct 31 2011, 11:25 PM
can't make myself unsee
Posted by: outlawwolf Nov 1 2011, 02:34 AM
I love Shortcake. I'm always trying to imagine what the world of Shadowrun would look like and it depresses me that most people tend to go with the over saturation of Matrix people styles. Characters like this really give me a sense of individual and cultural identity within the world.
Posted by: Tanegar Nov 1 2011, 03:02 AM
For the record, I'd totally tap Shortcake. Ork girls are hot.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 04:46 AM
I'll freely admit that a lot of my characters are given to lined coats, but a lot of them give some individuality to them. Buttons, zippers, chains, airbrushed art, studs and spikes, stuff like that. They also have a few other outfits, some for work, some for personal time. The longcoats are for when they're packing heavy for the most part.
Also, being as I have most of my characters in Seattle, the coats are perfect for the perpetually cold rain.
Nas is the one exception, as he mostly wears a heavy high quality synthleather armoured jacket (Bike Cop Cut) most of the time, that's heavily scuffed and beaten up, but well cared for.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Nov 1 2011, 05:00 AM
I can't remember the last time I saw a "Matrix" stylized character in a game whatsoever.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 05:16 AM
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb40/jagawatz/jayscostume6.jpg
Posted by: EKBT81 Nov 1 2011, 05:16 AM
And it's not like a character with a longcoat has to look like a Matrix cosplayer. AFAIK they were always described as being available in many different styles. If anything the text implied more a neo-western style, likening them to old west dusters. I think that's also how longcoats were often depicted in 1E/2E artwork. Though I wonder if they were also partly inspired by http://media.screened.com/uploads/0/1338/102422-blade_runner_publicity_still_high_resolution_03.jpg.
I guess the Matrix style began to go out of fashion when the sequels were released.
Actually in my games the "Neo" style very quickly became a sort of running joke as "poser" wear. To the point that a self-respecting character would wear anything but black leather coats and mirrorshades.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 05:18 AM
What's wrong with Mirrorshades?
Posted by: EKBT81 Nov 1 2011, 05:27 AM
Nothing with mirrorshades as such.
Black clothing is fine on its own. Leather is fine on its own. Coats are fine on their own. Mirrorshades are fine on their own. It's the combination of the elements into the "Neo" look that somehow came across to us as a hackneyed cliché.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 05:39 AM
OK, good. Mirrorshades have a long and honorable tradition in Cyberpunk. 
Posted by: Saint Hallow Nov 1 2011, 05:44 AM
Black clothing is fine on its own. Leather is fine on its own. Coats are fine on their own. Mirrorshades are fine on their own. It's the combination of the elements into the "Neo" look that somehow came across to us as a hackneyed cliché.
What about fingerless gloves?
Posted by: EKBT81 Nov 1 2011, 05:53 AM
I don't recall Neo wearing those, so I guess you're good to go with my blessing. (Although you'd better be careful about fingerprints.)
As an aside, recently I've looked up the archetypes in the 2E BBB. Some of those come rather close to giving Shortcake a run for her money regarding daring color schemes.
Posted by: Saint Hallow Nov 1 2011, 06:04 AM
I'm just recalling from CP2020 the "affectations" table for character appearance & what the character would wear to make them look "edgy, cyberpunk-cool". Mirrorshades (or gargoyle sunglasses), fingerless gloves, and leather were all listed.
Posted by: EKBT81 Nov 1 2011, 06:16 AM
Yes, now I (dimly) recall those too. I've never played CP2020 but I've read the books for stuff that could be adapted to SR. One of the chromebooks also had a nice set of fashion plates. I guess the 80s vibe was even stronger in CP2020 than in early-edition SR.
Posted by: Saint Hallow Nov 1 2011, 06:20 AM
CP2020 had some awesome gear, cyber, & weapons that should've belonged in SR. I heard someone took the stuff from CP2020 & found a way to convert it for SR 2nd ed. Never got to play it.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Nov 1 2011, 02:08 PM
I think that I have that data somewhere on my system. It was interesting
Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 04:17 PM
I know an old website I used to frequent did it the other way. My group played CP2020, but my GM didn't allow "Home Brewed" items. 
"Bad enough that there's Gatling Shotguns." Which, I have to admit, was bad enough... Especially when used on a crowd of hired protestors working for Kibble ("Human Chow" brand, which when you add water makes its own gravy!). We were the ones that hired the protestors, BTW. Made for great TV!
Posted by: EKBT81 Nov 1 2011, 05:24 PM
I guess that would be Gurth. You can download his SR2 conversions of the Chromebooks and Blackhand’s Street Weapons from the http://shadowrun.plasticwarriors.org/ website.
Posted by: Paul Nov 1 2011, 06:14 PM
For my own purposes a middle ground exist's between the Pink Mohawk and Mirror Shades on Leather crowd. Every tool has it purpose, and should be used accordingly. Improvisation is always welcome but why make things more complex than they need to be? I also don't think either is representative of all sides of the issue, nor does either have a monopoly on good times and good humor.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 11:39 PM
Bringing us back to cuter: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/CanRay/HelloKittyRifle.jpg
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Nov 2 2011, 12:13 AM
How..... Disturbing.
Posted by: Saint Hallow Nov 2 2011, 05:20 AM
I think it's cute... & adds a spin to firearms that hopefully make it more "female friendly". Not that guns need to be, but social morays & all that crap... sometimes making guns more palatable to others is the only way to keep them from being phased out due to some people's reactions to them & how they are portrayed.
2nd thing that went through my mind was if they made a Hello Kitty gun, I wonder if they make Transformers or ThunderCats versions? If the girls get something, why not the boys?
Posted by: CanRay Nov 2 2011, 12:45 PM
They did.
He's called "Megatron", and he's a P-38.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Nov 2 2011, 12:57 PM
You should see the reports on how cops are reacting.
There was even an internal police report circulating warning sheriffs to watch for gang members wielding painted assault rifles. It had the picture of one of the Hello Kitty rifles, conveniently leaving out the information that the pictured weapon was perfectly legal and in the custody of a licensed registered owner. It also failed to note that gang members don't USE assault rifles, painted or otherwise, they prefer pistols which can easily be concealed.
They were harassing one firearms modification business that offered painting services, completely failing to consider that they only work on legitimate legal firearms, and criminals wouldn't be using a legit service anyhow.
-k
Posted by: CanRay Nov 2 2011, 01:05 PM
Don't get me started, KI... Really, don't.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Nov 2 2011, 01:28 PM
http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/pink-duracoat-glock. Also, you never know when some dumb-ass bangers get the idea to buy themselves an AK or two, just to show off. Hollywood gives them the craziest ideas.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 2 2011, 01:32 PM
http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/tacticool-gun
Posted by: Draco18s Nov 2 2011, 02:07 PM
Screw that. You know you want your gun http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh216/raziel74868/SANY0656-1.jpg.
Posted by: tehana Nov 2 2011, 02:26 PM
Maybe its just because of the area I grew up in, but I didn't need a gun painted pink to be interested. I will say, I am not a current gun owner for a myriad of reasons but I would go shooting right this moment without a pink Hello Kitty gun.
The thought of a pink or Hello Kitty emblazoned gun just doesn't appeal to me, and I'm a huge girly girl. Everything I own is basically pink or Hello Kitty, its just doesn't conjugate properly in my head. I would be sorely disappointed if this was the way to bring women into firearms.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Nov 2 2011, 02:52 PM
That actually hurt my eyes. Horrible.
Posted by: Draco18s Nov 2 2011, 03:01 PM
Keeping in mind that it was taken with a still camera pointed (poorly) at a CRT television set hooked up to an XBucks.
It's lamentably, the best picture I could find. It's more hilarious when you get the "my gun has a shield!" mod, then pimp the gun. The entire shield gets diamond studs, for no reason.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Nov 2 2011, 03:20 PM
It's lamentably, the best picture I could find. It's more hilarious when you get the "my gun has a shield!" mod, then pimp the gun. The entire shield gets diamond studs, for no reason.
Yikes.... Save me from the Crazyness...
Posted by: Draco18s Nov 2 2011, 03:24 PM
It was Army of 2. Not a bad game, really, if you had a friend with a heartbeat. I'm not a consol FPS person myself, but I had fun. It's not pink mohawk, it's Electric Pink 2 foot Mohawk Battle Guitar Machinegun.
It's over the top and it knows it.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Nov 2 2011, 03:32 PM
It's over the top and it knows it.
EP2'MGBM.... Gotta love acronyms...
Posted by: Adrian Korvedzk Nov 3 2011, 02:48 AM
That looks like the Akihabara district. That's pretty mild for some of the things I've seen there.
Posted by: Adrian Korvedzk Nov 3 2011, 04:38 AM
-k
I so want that...
Posted by: Saint Hallow Nov 3 2011, 06:09 AM
Doesn't the world of SR4A have a flavor text stating that EVERYONE carries some sort of firearm for protection? If so, then it's not surprising if people started making their weapons like accessories & matching some pieces with some clothes/shoes. Easy to see a corp bunny with a pink, blinged out Colt L36 that perfectly matches her shoes for that night out at Cub Penumbra.
Posted by: tehana Nov 3 2011, 01:14 PM
I have to wonder if there's a status symbol aspect with this as well. If you look back to one of the links I posted earlier in this thread about designer duds in mafia prisons you'll see that things like this are being used as status symbols in crime rings. I have to wonder how long it will be before Joey Santori starts using a diamond encrusted gun to kill off threats just to start a reputation.
And I totally could see a socialite having a crystal encrusted gun. It would be exactly like cell phones in the early/mid 2000's. The crystal craze has kinda died down but I totally see how men and women alike would start personalizing them.
Damn. Now I'm all off on tangents in my brain thinking about how I could customize a gun to match my favorite outfits...
Posted by: Seriously Mike Nov 3 2011, 01:34 PM
Heh, my adept's pistol was supposed to have grips like Reinhard's Beretta from Blade 2, to match his katana, and I wanted, for a time, to make a pair for my airsoft Springfield.
Posted by: tehana Nov 3 2011, 02:05 PM
And here I was trying to figure out how to match my newly acquired Lanvin 70's op art dress to a pistol of some sort that will match a few other vintage dresses I own! LOL!
Posted by: EKBT81 Nov 3 2011, 09:45 PM
The status symbol aspect is there today. One only has to look at the blinged-out custom pistols confiscated from drug cartels or http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/10/best-war-booty/.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 3 2011, 09:47 PM
For the completely tasteless...
Posted by: Erik Baird Nov 4 2011, 03:07 AM
Of all the things Saddam was accused of, I doubt good taste was among them.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 4 2011, 03:12 AM
To be fair, does any world leader have good taste?
Posted by: Erik Baird Nov 4 2011, 03:22 AM
I certainly couldn't tell ya. Jeans and a polo are as high class as I get. Saddam was stylish compared to Kadaffi, though. At least Saddam knew when to shave.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 4 2011, 03:23 AM
I'm high fashion for where I'm from. I'm not wearing a wife-beater.
Posted by: JonathanC Nov 4 2011, 05:03 AM
Putin and Obama have excellent taste in suits.
Posted by: tehana Nov 4 2011, 12:31 PM
Clearly I am missing out in current events. Although I vaguely recall the AK.
Posted by: tehana Nov 4 2011, 01:37 PM
Both Mr. and Mrs. Obama have great fashion sense. I really *REALLY* love what Michelle does with her fashion. She wears a good majority of clothing that anyone can buy. I was just digging through Marc Jacob's Facebook yesterday and found some wall photos with her wearing dresses of his. Sure, they're still high three figures, but anyone can conceivably purchase one. Its not like she's wearing impossible to find clothing. I think it really helps relate her image to people
Queen Elizabeth II has wonderful fashion for a woman of her age as do William and Kate. Most of the British royals have great fashion sense. (Yes, even Princess Beatrice in the Cthulhu hat). Nicolas Sarkozy is a very well dressed man. Charlene, Princess of Monaco is a wonderfully dressed woman but I'm not sure how long she'll actually stay a "World Leader" with Albert being a creeper.
So I don't know. I tend to think that most world leaders are fairly well dressed, I think Gaddafi/Saddam just gave a weird skew on things.
Holy canoli! Wiki for the win. So I'm reading up on Gaddafi's kids and it turns out his only daughter https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS449US449&gcx=c&q=Ayesha+Gaddafi&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1440&bih=785&sei=%20J-uzTpS1DqGM2gXZxrzMDQ is way different than I expected! Hello western fashion influences!
Posted by: Erik Baird Nov 5 2011, 05:27 AM
I don't like some of Mrs. Obama's outfits, but I tend to think of Jackie Onassis as the standard for class. Why JFK thought he needed to cheat on her I'll never understand. (yeah, power trip, whatever.... Whadda low life.)
Posted by: tehana Nov 8 2011, 01:43 PM
I came across http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/italian-jobs-chinese-illegals-11032011.html (Because I'm corporate scum that gets BBW.)I had to share concerning this topic I brought up earlier:
Its about a town that's now 1/4 illegal Chinese workers that work in sweatshops to put that "Made in Italy" stamp on clothing and leather goods. Tax evasion, human trafficking and black market goods. What more could you want?
Posted by: CanRay Nov 8 2011, 03:27 PM
Combine that with a Bunraku Parlor and skillwires so they can shift from job-to-job? Sleep Regulators or gross amounts of Long Haul knock-offs would be needed.
Posted by: Daylen Nov 8 2011, 04:12 PM
2nd thing that went through my mind was if they made a Hello Kitty gun, I wonder if they make Transformers or ThunderCats versions? If the girls get something, why not the boys?
On discovery channel's American guns they customized, what looked to be a Kimber originally, 1911 by duracoating it hot pink. The owner of the company refused to do it at first. It might hurt male gun enthusiasts to see or make pink guns, but such is the price of women becoming gun owners. Its not a "phasing out" that is being fought, but a "phasing in" of females back into the firearms market. Maybe I'm just too chauvinist, but it still hurts me a little when I see "cute" guns.
Posted by: Daylen Nov 8 2011, 04:14 PM
Its about a town that's now 1/4 illegal Chinese workers that work in sweatshops to put that "Made in Italy" stamp on clothing and leather goods. Tax evasion, human trafficking and black market goods. What more could you want?
Drugs?
Posted by: Daylen Nov 8 2011, 04:17 PM
He liked American Whiskey and Westerns I hear, so I'd say yea he had good taste.
Posted by: tehana Nov 8 2011, 04:20 PM
Eh, gotta stay awake to pull those 24 hour shifts somehow.
Posted by: Wakshaani Nov 8 2011, 08:21 PM
Its about a town that's now 1/4 illegal Chinese workers that work in sweatshops to put that "Made in Italy" stamp on clothing and leather goods. Tax evasion, human trafficking and black market goods. What more could you want?
For more on a similar front, the US has some territories in the Pacific that do similar. As they are territories, you can stamp products made there as being "Made in the USA", but, they're immune to US labor laws, so you have sweatshop wages, forced prostitution (and forced abortion), 12-16 hour workdays, no vacation time, prison-style walled enclosures and (shock of shocks) a high suicide rate. Women are brought in from SE Asian countries that have a poor economy, promised high wages and a good life, then get locked in and have to work to pay off their signing fee. It's LIKE the old Company Store, but different.
Posted by: tehana Nov 8 2011, 08:23 PM
Any linkage? Color me curious. Not surprised in the least.
I did want to mention that I noticed one of the more prolific Italian houses, Prada, has had some significant price droppage. I was on Saks website last week and was shocked by how "affordable" the line has become. Not surprisingly, they are one of the houses that are employing these Chinese workers. Sad because Miu Miu is one of my favorite lines
Posted by: CanRay Nov 8 2011, 08:58 PM
"No longer do you need to go to knock-offs for slave labor made clothing! Now you can do it with high-end name brand items! And not just US High-End Name Brands, but Brands from AROUND THE WORLD!!! Why? Because we like money."
Posted by: EKBT81 Nov 8 2011, 10:31 PM
I did want to mention that I noticed one of the more prolific Italian houses, Prada, has had some significant price droppage. I was on Saks website last week and was shocked by how "affordable" the line has become. Not surprisingly, they are one of the houses that are employing these Chinese workers. Sad because Miu Miu is one of my favorite lines
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saipan#Controversy
Posted by: Wakshaani Nov 9 2011, 12:41 AM
There ya go.
Ties in with Jack Abramoff, which ties in with native American casinos and the territorial spats between gambling institutions that don't want to allow gambling within driving range of their personal gambling area.
Buuuut, that starts getting close to political talk, which isn't okay for the forums.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 9 2011, 12:45 AM
Back to cute orks, quick!
Posted by: Jizmack Nov 9 2011, 01:26 AM
Japan may have cute orc chicks, but the real hot ones are still in Seattle: http://kuragiman.deviantart.com/art/Blaze-Miss-Shadowrun-2072-194655138
Posted by: Brazilian_Shinobi Nov 9 2011, 01:57 AM
I think that's an Elf, a "fat" Elf, but an Elf nonetheless.
Posted by: tehana Nov 9 2011, 03:11 PM
On one hand I'm all like "YEAH! Nice looking lady!" On the other I'm like "Really? Could we get more cheesecake?" I mean. Put her in *SOMETHING*. Not surprised when I saw who it was though.
On second look I like that she's fleshy. Her body is really nice. Her feet though? Liefeldian.
Posted by: Wakshaani Nov 9 2011, 05:24 PM
On second look I like that she's fleshy. Her body is really nice. Her feet though? Liefeldian.
I can't say too terribly much, since the only Shadowrun art I ever put together that I cared for was this one:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/Wakshaani/Wakshaani-EagleShaman2.jpg
I love the *style* of the attire, but, the cutoff shirt isn't the best. It should really go lower on the torso, to the waist, rather than be quite so crop-topish.
Jeans need more wrinkles, by far.
But, you know ... not an artist, so I live with it.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 9 2011, 06:14 PM
Posted by: Tech_Rat Nov 9 2011, 06:44 PM
http://media.photobucket.com/image/shadowrun%20ork/BlakekLaurel/orky.jpg http://lavadragon.deviantart.com/art/Metal-Ork-67284264
Posted by: Saint Hallow Nov 9 2011, 07:01 PM
With plastic surgery, cosmetic bioware, & every other new health/beauty technological advance, I'm surprised there aren't more "visually acceptable" orks & trolls about. If I was the manager of a swanky AAA restaurant/mall/club/venue that needed to employ Orks & Trolls, I'd sure want to make them as "pretty" as possible for my consumers.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 9 2011, 07:24 PM
Hey, pretty is relative. Don't forget the song, "Room for a Litter".
Posted by: tehana Nov 9 2011, 08:51 PM
I'm playing one in my current game
Posted by: tehana Nov 9 2011, 08:52 PM
I would argue that many females are not attracted to the general idea of "Beefcake". At least not in my social circles.
Posted by: Wakshaani Nov 9 2011, 09:30 PM
You'll find that most artists that companies hire are male and most are able to go from 'male gaze' to 'neuter gaze', but it's a rare fella who can do art in 'female gaze'. Lord knows I can't, but, as noted, not an artist.
Of course, dipping through Deviantart (and Elfwood and so on) will show off a bajillion female artists with teh skills to work professionally, but few do. Real shame that. Of course, there are plenty of artists regardless of gender who do art for art's sake and don't *want* to do it as a career, or who are too slow for professional deadlines, or who can produce their own work but aren't comfortable doing comission work where the vision isn't their own, etc etc etc.
In short, people are complex.
But enough of me yammering ... image tax!
[img]http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/164/5/c/Commish___Crescent_Scar_33_by_imDRUNKonTEA.jpg[/img]
[img]http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/074/e/6/Commish___CrescentScar_25_by_imDRUNKonTEA.jpg[/img]
[img]http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/248/4/2/sketch_09_05_2011_by_imdrunkontea-d48zvo2.jpg[/img]
(Really big one next)
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/097/9/5/Ork_lady_M60_by_Dmitrys.jpg
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/241/7/0/ork_worker_by_megamoth-d2xlb1b.png
Posted by: Tech_Rat Nov 10 2011, 12:04 AM
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/164/5/c/Commish___Crescent_Scar_33_by_imDRUNKonTEA.jpg
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/074/e/6/Commish___CrescentScar_25_by_imDRUNKonTEA.jpg
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/248/4/2/sketch_09_05_2011_by_imdrunkontea-d48zvo2.jpg
(Really big one next)
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/097/9/5/Ork_lady_M60_by_Dmitrys.jpg
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/241/7/0/ork_worker_by_megamoth-d2xlb1b.png
Fixed.
Posted by: stevebugge Nov 10 2011, 12:14 AM
If you think the weirdos in the books are fun, try to get hold of the runner cards from the short lived Shadowrun TCG. If I have free time sometime I'll scan some to put up
Posted by: CanRay Nov 10 2011, 12:35 AM
But at least it shows equal opportunity exploitation, that's all. For some reason, I never hear about the Fireman's Calendar being a blow against males everywhere...
Posted by: Wakshaani Nov 10 2011, 10:47 AM
Ah! Thanks.
I keep forgetting that we don't use embedded images.
Posted by: tehana Nov 10 2011, 04:15 PM
See this is something odd to me. Being a classically trained traditional artist the thought of neuter gaze is the only one that I feel is innately inside me as an artist. I haven't once found myself idealizing a man or feminizing my work. I don't know, just odd to me. I think you start to lose integrity when you allow a perspective like that to take over your work. And Wak, you are far better than you give yourself credit for
Posted by: ElFenrir Nov 10 2011, 04:47 PM
If I could draw more than stick figures, I'd love to draw what my idea of how a 'prettyboy' troll may look. Like one who just ended up with the 'finer featured' end of the stick for his appearance. I mean any race can run from one end of the looks to the other(attractive, not as attractive, rugged, not as rugged, in the middle, average), and I don't see why trolls are any different; it's just that you never really see much art of a 'prettyboy' male troll.
Posted by: ggodo Nov 10 2011, 05:22 PM
Need more pretty goblinized folks, it's just fun to see.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 10 2011, 05:44 PM
Damn straight! Less scrawny elves, more good looking Dwarves, Orks, and Trolls!
Posted by: tehana Nov 10 2011, 08:30 PM
This is like the conversation Ravensmuse and I were having before bed. Elves are far too trite. I far prefer Orks and Trolls. Even Dwarves are too classically "Pretty" for me.
Posted by: ElFenrir Nov 10 2011, 08:59 PM
See, I *like* pretty but badass dudes. I mean, I designed a cyberdemon(non-shadowrun) to look good but be an enormous asskicking machine. I'm the person who wants a troll who kicks ass and looks damn good doing it. I don't mind playing a more monstery looking guy, but I actually wish sometimes I could get a ''Big Guy'' race who also is quite a looker as well. It's rare though, since for some reason designers don't equate being strong with being a charismatic looker(not that charisma and looks are connected, they aren't.) I dunno, I knew some real life dudes who were strong as hell and still good looking.
I like a lot of different kinds of races-elves, dwarves, orks, trolls, and the like-but I wish there were more art of ALL of them portraying them in non stereotypical ways. Like, why NOT have a pic of an elf who isn't pretty? Like a dude whose actually kinda grizzled, has a beard(elves CAN grow them), maybe scarred up, or whatnot. And why not a pic of a troll whose just a bigass MF who the ladies and gents who see him in a club actually say ''wow, he's hot.''
(Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That grizzled ass elf I mentioned may well attract people who like a grizzled tough guy of course! But I'm more speaking having some art that goes against the ''stereotypes'' of appearances.)
Posted by: HunterHerne Nov 10 2011, 09:09 PM
I like a lot of different kinds of races-elves, dwarves, orks, trolls, and the like-but I wish there were more art of ALL of them portraying them in non stereotypical ways. Like, why NOT have a pic of an elf who isn't pretty? Like a dude whose actually kinda grizzled, has a beard(elves CAN grow them), maybe scarred up, or whatnot. And why not a pic of a troll whose just a bigass MF who the ladies and gents who see him in a club actually say ''wow, he's hot.''
(Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That grizzled ass elf I mentioned may well attract people who like a grizzled tough guy of course! But I'm more speaking having some art that goes against the ''stereotypes'' of appearances.)
Agreed. But when people start gaming the system to care more about power then an interesting, realistic character, then stereotypes are kind of played out. Trolls become insecure brutes. Elves become more about the litheness and force of personality.
And on charisma not being dependant on appearance, it is also true that tht chrisma influences how you look.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 10 2011, 10:11 PM
I just want a good pic of Nas. Everyone makes him too damned skinny.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Nov 10 2011, 11:30 PM
Remember that dwarf on the cover of SR4? I want to kill that thing with fire. That's nowhere near "pretty".
However, the idea of orks having African features flies with me. Lessee, ork looking like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-svw1uvQxbr8/Tna0_z2hU0I/AAAAAAAABj0/I_S95zzoBHM/s320/Michael_Jai_White.jpg? Pretty fine. There's this character idea I have, an ork cop who understands how orks are seen by the society and wants to give them a second chance. Detective Ghazmar Walker, a good name for starters.
On second thought... Gary Cline looking like Obama? Just got that one idea, right now.
Posted by: Wakshaani Nov 11 2011, 01:51 AM
As an aside, there's a pic in ... SOTA '63 I think? About the Tir's ongoing revolution, wher eyou see a tubby homeless Elf guy in a wifebeater. I LOVE that art.
Similarly, in one of the OLD modules, there's ... I want to say she's a Yakuza gal, but there's an Ork in a dress that just looks great.
I need to go see which adventure that is.
I'm also a sucker for the female Tir cop with magic hands facing off with a tusker in the Tir handbook.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 11 2011, 02:02 AM
...
Well... Damn.
Posted by: HunterHerne Nov 11 2011, 02:31 AM
...
Well... Damn.
I think there are actually a lot of white trash Elves in Tir Taingire. After all, it was originally designed as an appointed Monarchy, in which most people were about as well off as the Seattle inahbitants, but mostly Elves.
Posted by: Paul Nov 11 2011, 02:35 AM
4e has intentionally gutted the Earthdawn elements of the game, including trying to make Elves less "Glamorous." I don't really like it, but luckily I can just plain ignore it. I like my elves to be plotting on all of us.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 11 2011, 02:44 AM
Who says they stopped?
Posted by: HunterHerne Nov 11 2011, 02:56 AM
I thought the "de-glaming" started in 3rd ed (Admittedly never played), and even so, Canray's right. The elves are doing a lot of Great Dragon-like scenarios in 4th, plotting and scheming, and who knows what else.
Posted by: Mongoose Nov 11 2011, 02:27 PM
Man hands. Muscles. Kneecaps that could puncture steel plate. Neck like a linebacker. Face and boobs aside, she's a pretty muscular looking dude.
I could totally see a female orc who goes for cosmetic surgery (mostly on the face, with a bit of body sculpting, say to narrow the shoulders a bit) looking like that. Its certainly not human...
Posted by: Miri Nov 11 2011, 03:10 PM
I could totally see a female orc who goes for cosmetic surgery (mostly on the face, with a bit of body sculpting, say to narrow the shoulders a bit) looking like that. Its certainly not human...
I went back and checked out the image again when you said all that.. and just noticed the bloodsplatter on the toes of her boots..
Posted by: CanRay Nov 11 2011, 03:38 PM
Posted by: Glyph Nov 11 2011, 07:09 PM
I like the way elves have been portrayed in Shadowrun - the glamorous aspect is there, but it is a stereotype that is treated like a stereotype, like Asians all knowing martial arts and being good at using computers. There are elves who look like supermodels, but there are also elves living in the slums, overweight elves, asskicking biker elves, and so on.
HunterHerne mentions SR3. One of the part of that book that I really liked was the Metahumanity section, where they had an essay under each metatype, by someone of that metatype, addressing both the traits and the stereotypes.
Posted by: ElFenrir Nov 12 2011, 02:16 PM
HunterHerne mentions SR3. One of the part of that book that I really liked was the Metahumanity section, where they had an essay under each metatype, by someone of that metatype, addressing both the traits and the stereotypes.
This is a character of mine, Samael. He's a sorta-VERY prime more story-type character than an in-game character due to his sorta OP power level and extremely mohawky look. I kept some of the ''looks'' elves get but generally speaking he's not you're typical elf:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/TheCarpenter/OC---Samael.jpg
and no, I did not draw this-I wish.
But I admit this is the sorta elves i like. Well, this guy is about eight feet tall fully stretched out(he's tall for an elf to begin with and those enormous legs add a lot of height.) I wouldn't expect to see this guy in mirrorshades. He's also stronger than he is agile; in his 'canon' he can stomp about anything flat. (And yeah-I admit I'm more highly influenced by over the top type mohawk stories. I just have more fun writing them.) I basically just tried to take most of the elven stereotypes(he's good looking but not 'glamorous', he's pure raw cybertroll level strength and brutality, etc, and not afraid to get blood all over the place. And his merc boyfriend wouldn't have it any other way.)
Posted by: pbangarth Nov 12 2011, 04:06 PM
As a matter of interest, how does he get his pants on and off?
Posted by: ElFenrir Nov 12 2011, 04:25 PM
Curls the claws in and tucks the big nasty one in the back down. They're actually fairly maneuverable.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Nov 12 2011, 04:46 PM
Missed an obvious one, any dwarf would point it to you. (ah, the old elf/dwarf conflict in pretty much any fantasy system. And in RPG magazines, especially the mail slot column)
Posted by: Daylen Nov 12 2011, 04:57 PM
Gimli?
Posted by: ElFenrir Nov 12 2011, 05:00 PM
Heh.
Actually, he's a human. Well, when I try to make a character-I try to take out a few stereotypes-but in the end, I like the character to be, well, a character. If, for example, I decide I want a dwarven mechanic just because I got a really fun idea for a dwarven mechanic, I'll totally run with it. I more or less wanted to build a huge, brutally strong and brutal-fighter of an elf guy whose general answer to lethal threats is to step on it a few dozen times until it stops being a threat, so I ran with it. (Then again he's actually been mutating lately into even a non-Shadowrun character in some of my stories the more I work with him.) He does still happen to look pretty good, but definitely does not act like a glamour-monkey or anything.
Posted by: Glyph Nov 12 2011, 08:01 PM
Ah, the glamour-monkey. Haruman with glamour, kinesics, tailored pheromones, and a full-body perm. He uses strawberry-scented shampoo.
Posted by: Shortcake Nov 12 2011, 08:05 PM
He needs to stop stealing that from Shortcake. She's getting angry.
Posted by: CanRay Nov 13 2011, 09:35 PM
Posted by: Charles Freck Nov 13 2011, 11:39 PM
My eyes are bleeding...
why is it that there's so much of... this kind of material on that website? Like, weird to the point where I would otherwise think the creator was trolling their viewers if it wasn't for the amount of work put into some of the pieces.
Posted by: Seriously Mike Nov 14 2011, 12:31 AM
why is it that there's so much of... this kind of material on that website? Like, weird to the point where I would otherwise think the creator was trolling their viewers if it wasn't for the amount of work put into some of the pieces.
Also, http://feuerlilie.deviantart.com/art/Shadowrun-Orc-Nova-101979683.
Posted by: Ol' Scratch Nov 14 2011, 12:58 AM
At least she looks like an ork.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Nov 14 2011, 05:19 AM
why is it that there's so much of... this kind of material on that website? Like, weird to the point where I would otherwise think the creator was trolling their viewers if it wasn't for the amount of work put into some of the pieces.
It's DeviantArt.
That is the answer.
-k
Posted by: CanRay Nov 14 2011, 05:26 AM
Surprise surprise, it's full of Deviants.
...
*Shrugs and points at my sig*
Posted by: CanRay Nov 21 2011, 05:37 AM
http://kyotokid.deviantart.com/art/Dolly-just-loves-a-hot-time-270116332
Posted by: CanRay Jan 21 2013, 12:03 AM
Narcopost!
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 12:49 AM
Ray, those are not orks. I'm not sure what they are, not the strangest thing I've seen from Japan... Not by a long shot. But they're sure as hell not fraggin' orks. These dollies have no hez!
Posted by: CanRay Jan 21 2013, 03:30 AM
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 03:45 PM
Oh, where's the horns?
Posted by: Grinder Jan 21 2013, 04:03 PM
Sawed off.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Jan 21 2013, 04:37 PM
How about the "slightly protuberant eyes"?
-k
Posted by: Umidori Jan 21 2013, 06:52 PM
You don't have to be http://michaelandrewswriter.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/lorree-cartoon.jpg, http://www.a-gc.com/images/2012/11/movies-marty-feldman-young-frankenstein-HD-Wallpapers.jpg, or http://www.moviepilot.de/files/images/0487/2200/steve_buscemi.jpg to qualify as having protuberant eyes. For example, the character of http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080913145450/harrypotter/images/e/ed/Luna_Lovegood.jpg is a great example of someone with protuberant eyes. It's a noticeable facial feature, but it's not outlandish by any stretch.
~Umi
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 07:00 PM
Meh, When fantasy creatures look like humans with fangs/pointy ears/other trademark physical trait. It rubs me the wrong way.
The physiology of an elf or ork should be more then that!
For example, with elves I tend to have slender raised cheekbones with either cat-like or large almond eyes, visibly larger sleek pointy ears, lush hair and such.
If I'm going for a more Irish feel add in rosy cheeks and disproportionate large mouths with thin lips.
The body in general would be different aswell, either curvy and plumb, but gracious. or slender and sleek.
Posted by: bannockburn Jan 21 2013, 07:13 PM
Your descriptions sound very interesting, Lionhearted. I'd love to see some pictures going with them
As for the Ork girl: Love it. I'd have pronounced the tusks a bit more but she looks way cute this way. Also the muscular arms and legs. The colors are not my palette at all, but they are used well and enhance the feeling of her posture.
And remember: This picture is from an artist who had to rely purely on a description, as (s)he didn't know anything about the world, or how Oni or Orks even are supposed to look like.
With this in mind, I think it's a really good result. Still looking for cute ork girls without overexaggerated features, though. Hard!
Posted by: Umidori Jan 21 2013, 07:31 PM
The problem with fantasy races is the same problem with sci-fi aliens.
Take Mass Effect. You've got your humans, with a wide array of appearances, differing in height, build, skin tone, skeletal structure, you name it.
Then you have the Hanar. They'll all identical jellyfish things.
Then you have the Volus. Dumpy, plump little dudes in identical pressure suits. No variance in height, weight, clothing, nothing.
The Asari are all virtual clones, but that at least is somewhat explained by the in-world lore regarding their physiology and procreation.
The Salarians are much the same, but without even an invented excuse for all looking alike.
The Turians are probably the most differentiated from one another, if not in body, then at least in their faces, but this is largely due to their tribal markings.
Today's modern Tolkien-inspired fantasy races are just as blandly uniform. Dwarves are short, stocky, strong, bearded, love beer, love fighting, love treasure, love tools, love digging, hate elves, and speak with a Scottish accent. Elves are tall, slender, fair or pale skinned, long haired, agile, love nature, love magic, love dainty and delicate things, hate dwarves, and are terribly mystical and mysterious. Orks are big, muscular, slow, ugly, and stupid. Likewise Trolls, only more so.
Borrrring!
General tendencies are one thing. But there has to be room for exeptions, or you aren't playing a believeable character in a believeable world, you're playing a fraggin' cartoon.
There should be elves that are as burly, hirsute, and rambunctious as the most stereotypical of dwarves. There should be trolls that are mild and introverted, who are into reading books and doing a bit of gardening. There should be orks who are lithe and attractive, who take modeling gigs wearing tight blue jeans, pouting seductively at the camera. There needs to be just as much of a range of appearances and physical forms among the metatypes as among humans.
~Umi
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 07:53 PM
There shouldn't however be elves that looks like just like a generic human only with pointy ears, to me that's show a lack of artistic breadth.
@Bannock I'm one of those old school farts that uses pen and paper, doesn't come out quite right when scanning. Also I'm way to critical of myself to submit anything
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 21 2013, 08:16 PM
At least furries are doing it right.
Hell, there are a half-dozen or so wolves I can tell the difference between, and that's about as far away from my species as I can get (and have more than one individual; lyrebirds would be a good candidate...if I knew more than one, same goes for "most bird species" and "most reptile species").
Posted by: Umidori Jan 21 2013, 08:30 PM
Why shouldn't there be elves that look like ordinary people, just with pointy ears? Why can't that just be one of the many varieties of form and appearance elves can take? Why do humans have a broad spectrum of body features they are allowed to possess, but the metatypes don't?
What makes an elf an elf? To be perfectly blunt, their genetics. Yes, they have physical features typical to their metatype, which are the product of their genetic code. But what are those features? According to SR4A, pointed ears, sparse body hair, a greater height and slimmer build than the "average human", and low light vision. That's it. And you know what? Those are all features you can find naturally in humans in real life.
Elves are really only intrinsically different from humans in the magical, thaumaturgical sense. They have certain physical tendencies, much like real life human ethnicities do, but they're simply that - tendencies. The average Native American has a genetic tendency for poor alcohol tolerance, but there are some who can outdrink a Scot. The average Japanese has a genetic tendency to be short in height, but there are some who are taller than NBA stars. The average Mediterranean has a genetic tendency to be swarthy and dark haired, but there are some who are pale as day and sport bright crimson locks. And then there are people of every ethnicity who look more or less "ordinary", despite their genetic backgrounds, despite any unique physiological traits they may possess in minor degrees.
If we're honestly to believe that the metatypes sprang up from humanity universally across the entire globe, we need to allow for the metatypes to show the sort of variance in physical appearance that humanity itself does (and that includes the possibility of looking "normal" or "ordinary"). An African elf should NOT look like a European elf, who should NOT look like an Asian elf, et cetera.
And before anyone asks, "But what about the Wakyambi? Aren't they just African elves?", no, wakyambi are based off a regional mythical being, much like Mediterranean Satyrs or Japanese Oni.
~Umi
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 09:01 PM
Humans can see in the dark?!
Also you forgot "exotic looks, striking features".
I was arguing artistic breadth, as in "I know one way to draw a womans face and I'm going to keep doing it and change up the hair/eyebrowns, if it's an elf I'll give it pointy ears" Now, that's not saying that the pictures in this thread is like that, but still humans with tusks rubs me the wrong way because of that.
But I'll adress your argument aswell.
In Shadowrun in particular, yes there is human looking elves, but most won't be and we can't expect to see the same diversity either because of:
• Metagenes are immune to dilution, meaning that elven features will stay elven no matter how the genes are muddled or mixed up, you're either meta or your not. The same is true for metavariants. It's completely Impossible to have an half-oni/half-ork with features from both parents, you're either one or the other and drift doesn't occur. Source: Runner's companion
• There's distinct meta features that humans simply do not replicate, low-light capable eyes will have a different structure and shape then those of humans (look at any animal with keen vision and notice the differences) just as much as you will not find a human with natural dermal deposits.
• Metatypes are distinctly not human! they have their own variances for build, skeletal structure, muscle density, body fat, giving them distinct features different from humans! Dogs and Wolves are closely related yet you will never find a dog that looks just like a wolf, similar? sure. But there's still morphological differences.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jan 21 2013, 09:06 PM
Also you forgot "exotic looks, striking features".
I was arguing artistic breadth, as in "I know one way to draw a womans face and I'm going to keep doing it and change up the hair/eyebrowns, if it's an elf I'll give it pointy ears" Now, that's not saying that the pictures in this thread is like that, but still humans with tusks rubs me the wrong way because of that.
But I'll adress your argument aswell.
In Shadowrun in particular, yes there is human looking elves, but most won't be and we can't expect to see the same diversity either because of:
• Metagenes are immune to dilution, meaning that elven features will stay elven no matter how the genes are muddled or mixed up, you're either meta or your not. The same is true for metavariants. It's completely Impossible to have an half-oni/half-ork with features from both parents, you're either one or the other and drift doesn't occur. Source: Runner's companion
• There's distinct meta features that humans simply do not replicate, low-light capable eyes will have a different structure and shape then those of humans (look at any animal with keen vision and notice the differences) just as much as you will not find a human with natural dermal deposits.
• Metatypes are distinctly not human! they have their own variances for build, skeletal structure, muscle density, body fat, giving them distinct features different from humans! Dogs and Wolves are closely related yet you will never find a dog that looks just like a wolf, similar? sure. But there's still morphological differences.
So, if what you are saying is actually True, explain the Human Looking Quality then... *shrug*
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 09:09 PM
"Can be mistaken for" is not the same as "looks just like"
Also I forgot this earlier:
• They all look the same to me! symptom.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jan 21 2013, 09:12 PM
If a Metatype can be mistaken for a mere Human, then they, by definition, MUST LOOK LIKE a Human, complete with all the variances that entails. At that point, all your points go into the blender. *shrug*
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 09:15 PM
A dog can pass for a wolf unless you take a closer look
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jan 21 2013, 09:19 PM
And all dogs do not look alike, nor do all wolves. So what is your point?
Posted by: CanRay Jan 21 2013, 09:29 PM
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 09:29 PM
That an elf, ork or dwarf with the human looking quality is still recognisable as their respective metatype under closer inspection.
Read the quality. It uses terms as "pass as human in most social circumstances" and "trying to hard to "look human""
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jan 21 2013, 09:31 PM
Read the quality. It uses terms as "pass as human in most social circumstances" and "trying to hard to "look human""
Most, however, does mean exactly that... MOST.
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 09:35 PM
You'd probably still look odd for a "human"
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jan 21 2013, 09:48 PM
Not really; if you did, you would defeat the purpose of Human Looking. *shrug*
Please don't think I am touting Human Looking as a be-all end-all, becasue I do not think that. It just seems that your POV horribly clashes with the material presented.
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 10:01 PM
What goes as human looking although?
Would a human looking Ork look like Dolph Lundgren or That Football hooligan with bad teeth?
Nothing implies that you're ordinary looking, just that your meta-expressions are subtle enough for you to pass as a human most of the time.
Posted by: Umidori Jan 21 2013, 10:12 PM
Yes, in real life there is a great variance of human night vision. Some humans have exceptionally keen night vision. Others, not so much. Where do you draw the line? Hard to say.
How do you explain the Night Vision positive quality? It's not exclusively metagenetic. Any mundane, non-Surged human can have low light vision. Dermal deposits, however, arguably are exclusively metagenetic, in that they are only present in trolls and changelings.
What does it actually mean to be an elf, though? It means that the metagenes in your DNA coded for "Elf Traits" are switched "On". You are correct that you can't dilute metagenes, and that you can't be half-meta. If your parents are of two different metatypes, you'll either only have one set of metagenes activated, or if both are active you'll end up human because they cancel each other out.
Metagenes are an important factor in what makes a metatype a metatype, yes. For example, Elven metagenes clearly result in extended lifespans compared to humans, a trait which is distinctly and exclusively metagenetic. Pointed ears are likewise a metagenetic trait, expressed by both elves and orks, but they're clearly not exclusively metagenetic, as humans can and do possess naturally pointed ears. Greater than average height and slimmer than average builds may also be metagenetic, but again, they aren't exclusively so, as humans are just as capable of having those same builds.
Metagenes are still genes, and they don't create exact results. Metagenes influence physical expression, just as ordinary genes do. An Ork may always be going to express Tusks, sure, as that's a trait which is coded for by the Orkish metagenes. But those tusks aren't always going to be the same size. Some orks will have massive tusks, others will have tiny ones. Similarly, while the Orkish metagenes code for heavier, more muscular builds, the degree of influence those genes actually have is going to vary greatly dependant on the individual. Some orks will be hulking monstrosities, while others might be more comparable to a human who is simply in decent athletic shape. The metagenes code for the heavy build, but how much or how little that trait is expressed can vary wildly.
Source for the part after the first sentence, please? I know that in terms of magical theory, yes, they are distinctly not human (as well as "sufficiently human" at the same time), but we're not talking magical theory.
I'll admit that metatypes have their own averages for their physical forms. Elves "tend" to be taller and slimmer, Orks "tend" to be more heavily built, etc. But the upper and lower bounds of the variances overlap with human appearances. Being tall and slight of build is not unique to elves. You do not need Elven metagenes to have those traits. And likewise, being of average height and average build is not unique to humans. You do not need to lack Elven metagenes to have those traits, even if you're more likely to express those traits if you do lack them.
~Umi
Posted by: Halinn Jan 21 2013, 10:33 PM
Unexpressed elven traits due to our low magic level.
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 10:33 PM
Last point? Assumptions mostly, Dwarves clearly have higher muscle density given the fact that they are stronger then humans despite their size.
Elves are more lightly built as their average weight is only 2kg more despite having over a decimeter in length advantage, either they have lower body fat, lighter bony structure or are generally more "stretched out".
Orks are markantly heavier and sturdier then humans, despite having "human like proportions" surely length alone doesn't account for 40kg?
Stuff like that...
Posted by: Umidori Jan 21 2013, 10:43 PM
Now how about any of the other points?
~Umi
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 21 2013, 11:02 PM
You're getting hooked up on averages, they're not arbitrary numbers either. They show trends and correlations, and if the average falls within a certain range you can make certain deductions.
Like, elves are generally taller then human but they're also generally lighter.
Why is that? The average human of that length would be expected to be much heavier...
Also you need to reference within the same frame. Some dwarves are stronger then humans, most dwarves are stronger then dwarf sized humans. There's another correlation that makes you look for causation.
Even then Averages function off a bell curve so the shortest elf is still beyond the range of the shortest human, variables have limits.
What other points are you refering to?
Metagenetics is stupid on so many levels that it's not even worth trying to argue what's genetic or not, it's all macguffin.
Posted by: Umidori Jan 21 2013, 11:32 PM
The point I'm making about averages is that they are derived from, as you yourself say, a certain range of qualities.
There is absolutely no reason why an Elf cannot look like, and I quote, "a generic human only with pointy ears". It falls well within reasonable extremes of the spectrum of Elven physiology. Yes, the average elf is typically taller and thinner than a generic human. That does not, however, in any way preclude the possibility of a somewhat non-average elf looking like the "generic human only with pointy ears" that you claimed shouldn't ever exist.
As for the "other points" I'm referring to, those would be all the points I made in my prior post? The post which you responded to the "Last Point" of with your "assumptions" argument, and which you ignored all the rest of?
And considering you were the one who even brought up metagenes in the first place, to suddenly turn around and now say they're stupid and unfit to argue over, that just smacks of "Sour Grapes" to my ears, and I am genuinely astounded at your having done so.
~Umi
Posted by: Tashiro Jan 22 2013, 06:41 AM
I remember this picture from last year, and I remember the person the character was made for commenting about it. She's an oni, and she dresses like that to 1) have fun, and 2) cause people to underestimate her (IIRC). I actually love this picture, I love the concept. Fun was had by all.
(Or, 'don't yuk another person's yum')
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jan 22 2013, 02:05 PM
Heh... Awesome.
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 22 2013, 04:14 PM
I'm going to have to steal this at some point.
I will, however, say that you can question it (e.g. "why do you like it?")
Posted by: Tashiro Jan 22 2013, 04:17 PM
I will, however, say that you can question it (e.g. "why do you like it?")
Oh, of course.
Oh, and the usual way to say it is: 'Don't yuk my yum'.
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 22 2013, 05:48 PM
From an artistic point of view?
Yes, it's lazy and show lack creativity or talent.
From an game point of view... I'm going to stick with, close enough to be mistaken for one.
Dogs and wolves.
I used the canon explanations to back up my claims, that doesn't mean I think it's sound. Metagenetics is hella stupid and it's kinda pointless arguing the mechanics of it (I only stated the "facts" put forth)
It's hard to reasonably argue something when the basis is: Because magic.
So I simply answered how I justified my assumptions because that's something I can attend to using facts.
Browse 4chan or Deviantart long enough and you'll regret you said that...
Posted by: CanRay Jan 22 2013, 05:52 PM
Posted by: Tashiro Jan 22 2013, 06:23 PM
Been there. I don't have to like what I see, but I'm willing to accept someone else likes it. The rule still stands.
Caveat: I draw the line when it involves hurting someone (or something, such as an animal), of course. Cruelty isn't to be tolerated, but I'm pretty sure people can understand that.
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 22 2013, 06:30 PM
Someone once told me that the reason you see so many strange things come out of Japan, is because the culture embraces the fact that a fantasy is just that... A fantasy, it can't harm anyone and it everyone should be allowed to let their mind wander how they please.
(Also stuff about how restrictive working life can be and the stark separation between personal time and work time)
Don't know how true it is, but it sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Posted by: CanRay Jan 22 2013, 06:39 PM
http://boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/201202070943.jpg
Posted by: Tashiro Jan 22 2013, 06:45 PM
Oh, that's just awesome.
Posted by: Umidori Jan 22 2013, 06:47 PM
Get that bitch a rainbow cannon. Bitches love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsEtf86uhOQ.
~Umi
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jan 22 2013, 07:31 PM
Where can I order a Set?
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 22 2013, 07:35 PM
While I agree with you, there's a point where even that has to be set aside.
I'm not kidding. I have seen the following text role-play ad, from a female character:
"I like large boys! Rape her until you get bored or she expires!"
Think about it for a minute.
Yes.
That's exactly what she wanted people to do to her.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Jan 22 2013, 07:41 PM
I'm not kidding. I have seen the following text role-play ad, from a female character:
"I like large boys! Rape her until you get bored or she expires!"
Think about it for a minute.
Yes.
That's exactly what she wanted people to do to her.
How does that line go? You can't rape the willing?
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 22 2013, 08:00 PM
Well. Yes. But keep in mind that it's a text role-play, so you can play a character that is unwilling and be willing to do it. Doesn't mean the character wanted it.
The rape wasn't really what I was trying to point out. It was the...ah...other complications. "Extreme size play" I think is all I can say without getting into trouble.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Jan 22 2013, 08:39 PM
Fair enough.
There's something for everyone on the internet.
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 22 2013, 09:27 PM
There's something for everyone on the internet.
There sure is...there sure is...
And some of it really creepy.
Posted by: Halinn Jan 22 2013, 11:21 PM
And some of it really creepy.
I have seen rule 34 clippy porn. I am no longer surprised by discovering the existence of anything on the internet.
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 22 2013, 11:38 PM
BIG MEH.
Clippy porn is by far on of the more tame things I've seen on (or off*) the internet.
*I've got an intentionally badly written** MLP....fan slash fiction in my email. Also one of the Peanuts gang that ends in a mass murder/suicide (also I'm in it, sort of).
**I can't actually describe why this one is bad on the forums without getting a 3 day suspension.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Jan 22 2013, 11:41 PM
Clippy porn is by far on of the more tame things I've seen on (or off*) the internet.
*I've got an intentionally badly written** MLP....fan slash fiction in my email. Also one of the Peanuts gang that ends in a mass murder/suicide (also I'm in it, sort of).
**I can't actually describe why this one is bad on the forums without getting a 3 day suspension.
It's because friendship is magic - isn't it.
Posted by: Halinn Jan 22 2013, 11:42 PM
Oh, I quite agree. It's more the novelty value of it.
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 22 2013, 11:43 PM
Clippy rule 34 is a bit like a shaved wookiee, you don't see it coming and you end up wondering why it exists...
(There's a shaved wookiee in extended universe for the record)
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 23 2013, 05:33 AM
Not really. Rule 35.
What makes me scratch my head are people who role play tiny lizards hoping to get eaten by larger things.
To the point of "jump down someone's throat when they yawn" level of "hoping to get eaten."
*Draco18s has had it happen to him twice
Posted by: Tashiro Jan 23 2013, 07:32 AM
'voreism. I've always been creeped out by that kind of roleplay. But, to each their own - if people enjoy that kind of roleplay, more power to them. Just don't point it at me.
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 23 2013, 01:57 PM
Mhm.
Posted by: StealthSigma Jan 23 2013, 02:42 PM
I... what... I don't even....
--
**I can't actually describe why this one is bad on the forums without getting a 3 day suspension.
Go big or go home!
--
In all seriousness, I started reading this thread thinking it was new. Then I noticed I was writing responses to posts that were over a year old.
That said... I still have to say....
I'd kill her on the principle that she looks like Strawberry Shortcake, regardless of whether she looks stupid or not. I can't stand that bitch. She peddles the crack that is strawberry shortcakes.
Now Rainbow Brite? She's cool.
Posted by: Lionhearted Jan 23 2013, 05:01 PM
Personally I love silly campy madness, it reminds me of lollipop chainsaw. The kind of ridiculous shit that's intentionally so bad it breaks the limit and achieve negative horrible.
Awesome, hilaribad or terrigood!
However she's a human, not an ork...
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jan 23 2013, 05:29 PM
Awesome, hilaribad or terrigood!
However she's a human, not an ork...
She is, in fact, and Ork (or Ork Metavariant).
Posted by: Draco18s Jan 23 2013, 09:01 PM
Yeah.
I was a judge of a contest.
We had to invent new scoring mechanisms for most of the entries.
Those two though...those two are the only two that scored any number of "hazmat decontamination scrubs"
Posted by: CanRay Mar 9 2013, 06:58 AM
So, um, yeah... Another of http://phantagrafie.deviantart.com/art/The-Fairy-Queen-356419872!
Posted by: Sir_Psycho Mar 9 2013, 10:08 AM
OP:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/88/213423984_a82afcda90.jpg?v=0
Posted by: Umidori Mar 9 2013, 11:49 AM
"If ye hud a chunse tae chaynge yer fayte, wid ye?"
?
~Umi
Posted by: Pepsi Jedi Mar 9 2013, 06:06 PM
The question is, if you were playing and you ran into that rigger with her little fairy drones and what not.. how would YOUR character react?
Posted by: DamHawke Mar 9 2013, 06:18 PM
I'd probably scoff at her outfit and try to swat the fairies or something
Posted by: Lionhearted Mar 9 2013, 06:54 PM
I cry foul on that Ray, denne try to pass that of as an ork!
Posted by: CanRay Mar 9 2013, 09:12 PM
Posted by: Pepsi Jedi Mar 9 2013, 09:18 PM
Brighter colors paint a better target....
Posted by: Lionhearted Mar 9 2013, 09:40 PM
What you fail to consider PJ, the crazier the chick, the better she is...
Posted by: Pepsi Jedi Mar 9 2013, 09:58 PM
lol Depends on what she's 'better' at. *Grins*
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)