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Posted by: Caadium Oct 25 2011, 07:59 AM

If Shadowrun is the 6th Age, when did the Dinosaurs walk the earth?

FYI, this is fluff material I need for an upcoming run I'm planning.

Posted by: Kesendeja Oct 25 2011, 10:10 AM

My time line only goes back to 100,000 BC. Give me some time and i can probably answer the question be next weekend. Or i can just send you what I have if you'd rather.

Posted by: Kesendeja Oct 25 2011, 10:22 AM

Did some rough calculations, and it depends on what age of dinosaur you want. But somewhere in the ballpark of -2000 age for the last of the beasties.

Posted by: Ascalaphus Oct 25 2011, 10:40 AM

They were put there by the IEs as part of the Coverup?

Posted by: Brazilian_Shinobi Oct 25 2011, 11:43 AM

The dinossaurs were walking the earth on the "zero-th" age or something like that. Apparently, the dragons, or their ancestors, are/were dinossaurs. At least that was something I had seen being discussed here in dumpshock a certain time ago. It could be all bullshit anyway...

Posted by: MK Ultra Oct 25 2011, 12:27 PM

If I remember my spotty Earthdawn trivia right, the Dragons (or rather the first Dragon, which created dragons and metahumanity) started the manacycle. That would have been 24.000 BC, give or take. Before that, the ED Demons where running the show, IIRC - maybe the big bad one even created all life. This is all according to the ED Dragons creation myth, so you can take it with a mountain range of salt.

So there was basically no age before that in the same sense as in the SR cycles. Or you can just say everything before that was 0th, as stated above..

Posted by: Draco18s Oct 25 2011, 02:42 PM

If you want a time traveling cybervelociraptor, nothing's stopping you.

Posted by: Sengir Oct 25 2011, 02:49 PM

http://memebase.com/2011/03/26/memes-lol-god-goog-one-god/


Based on the Fifth World (3113 BC to 2011), one "World" lasts 5124 years, that would place the beginning of the First World at ~23.500 BC, which obviously is some time after dinosaurs were around...my guess is that at some point (presumably when the Books of Harrow were written) people decided "the previous age of magic was the Second World, everything before that shall henceforth be known as the First World".

Posted by: Caadium Oct 25 2011, 03:24 PM

Actually, the characters spent a lot of time doing various runs for a biotech mega without realizing it (they were always hired thru different intermediaries). The last time we played, and its unfortunately been a while due to RL issues, the learned that and the corp even offered them 'long term deals' and 'discounts and access to wares' and other fun things so that I could get them FIRMLY into the pocket of the corp. This weekend, they are going to learn that most of their previous work for the corp all basically went into the corps version of a Jurassic Park. Of course, something has gone wrong, and now the runners will be forced to clean it up. Instead of just, "Dinosaurs escaped!" like the traditional story though, we are in an awakened world.

I'm working on the details of what went wrong, and also the name of the park, hence my original question.



My only problem with that logic is that, as far as I understand it, an age can have various lengths. The use of Mana can shorten an age, and Blood Magic in particular really shortens the length. The biggest thing is that the 6th age was moving much faster than others and that was one of Dunkelzhan's concerns. If that's true, each age would theoretically have different lengths.

I don't recall where I read that, but that was my basic understanding. Its possible I am ENTIRELY wrong in this though.

Posted by: Draco18s Oct 25 2011, 03:33 PM

Mesozoic Mesa.
Then you can play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNeAINi9omo when the park's theme song comes on.

Posted by: MK Ultra Oct 25 2011, 03:58 PM

At least the rise and fall of the mana-level can be steaper (SR 6th world) or slower - End of Earthdarn 4th world, when the therans kept the manalevel steady to preserve their magic based empire. It didnt last obviously, but I think i read somewhere, that they extended the 4th world at least a bit (100 years or so). In the end thera exploded and the manalevel snapped back like a rubber band as I recall. Not sure this time shift was compensated by a shorter 5th world or not. But according to dragon myth, before the cycles started, demons rocked, so there supposedly was tons of mana around. Unfortunately the dragons didnt keep (or at least share) many records from before thair own existance.

But basically you can do whatever you want. even if the dinosaures had no mana, they could have metagenes from a previous high mana period, which can activate in SR high mana, so go nuts with para-dinos

Posted by: CanRay Oct 25 2011, 04:19 PM

Dinosaurs are 4th World SURGEd Paracritters?

Posted by: HunterHerne Oct 25 2011, 07:35 PM

The thing is, based on at least some of the paranimals in SR, a lot of dino's were awakened. At least one pteradactyl, Pleasiasaurs, and the Megalodon are old enough to be considered "dinosaurs", at least in the fossil record.

Posted by: CanRay Oct 25 2011, 09:14 PM

My group once freaked out when a Mr. Johnson they worked for said he was going "Fishing" while the heat died down in Seattle, standing next to a whaling ship that was loading depth charges.

"What the hell are you fishing?" "Megalodon." "You're fishing for A DINOSAUR!" "Yes, it's very good meat."

Posted by: HunterHerne Oct 25 2011, 09:57 PM

That story never gets old. I still have yet to convince my group to go out into open water...

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 25 2011, 10:00 PM

As it should be. Open Water is Dangerous...

Posted by: MJBurrage Oct 25 2011, 11:29 PM

The dating of the Worlds in Shadowrun goes back to "Humans and the Cycle of Magic" by Ehran “The Scribe”. See the following links for more detail:

• http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Humans_and_the_Cycle_of_Magic • http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Humans_and_the_Cycle_of_Magic

Short Version: Ehran gives us three specific dates and notes that he and others could calculate the magic cycle. This means that the previous dates were known to him even though they were not mentioned.

The Second World (also known as "The Age of Dragons") was 18487 BC – 13362 BC. The Fourth World was 8238 BC – 12 August 3113 BC.

This implies that the original fall of the Horrors, led to a drop of magic, which led to the no-magic First World beginning in 23610 BC.

What is unknown in Shadowrun fluff (as far as I know) is how long the "Zeroth" World was.

• It could be that all prior history had constant magic, and the cycle only began with the first defeat of the horrors.
• It could be that magic has cycled since the dawn of time, but only numbered since the first defeat of the horrors.

Either way, I suspect that dinosaurs will remain only defined by individual game masters.

P.S. In my games, what we interpret as dinosaurs, are the mundane remains of the dual-natured horrors.

Posted by: CanRay Oct 26 2011, 12:44 AM

Terrible Lizards indeed!

Posted by: Jareth Valar Oct 26 2011, 07:48 AM

Hence Kesendeja's "-2000 age". At least that's what I got from it.

Hell, the Yukatan meteor might have been enough to shift the natural, steady mana of the world and caused it to wobble/cycle and allowing it to spike much higher than (meta)nature intended. Thus allowing the horrors through during the high spikes. Dinosaurs were probably good hunting for some. Hehe, maybe one of the reasons the big ones died off and left the smaller mammals. Not worth the time. Better than the natures assassin theory.

Just an idea.

Posted by: Snow_Fox Oct 29 2011, 02:30 AM

The Silurian age?

Posted by: Caadium Oct 29 2011, 08:06 AM

Thank you everyone for all of the replies.

While it looks like there isn't a specific age to tie it to I was only asking to try to help name the park so it's not a big loss. However, the fact that it basically pre-dates the current mana-cycle has given me lots of fun ideas. I actually like Jareth's thinking that a cataclysmic event, like the Yucatan meteor, fundamentally changed the mana levels and way it interacts with the planet. In a nutshell, the genes of the dinos reacted in various and unexpected ways by being exposed to the current levels of mana and other radiations. Some species will be what history says they should be. Some might be awakened. Others might even wind up as techno-critters with an aptitude for Resonance.

Let's see if I can turn their trip to the park into something akin to being stuck in the Renraku Arcology, but with more critters instead of nano-bots.

Again, thanks for all the input.

Posted by: Snow_Fox Oct 29 2011, 04:19 PM

If you want to dip into another mythos, there is one idea that thqe moon, was not formed around earth but was a run away body that caused chaos as it entered the system destroying prehuman society-dragons on Mars anyone- before settling into orbit here.

Posted by: HunterHerne Oct 29 2011, 04:22 PM

Sounds viable to me.

Posted by: Jareth Valar Oct 29 2011, 11:31 PM

I have, many times, in my games liked to try and explain why (if only in my own head) many things are the way they are. And, yes, "when Mars had an atmosphere" has been one too.

Posted by: CanRay Oct 29 2011, 11:38 PM

Mars does have an atmosphere. It's just not one you want to run around naked in.

Posted by: Jareth Valar Oct 30 2011, 12:14 AM

I was talking when the atmosphere was capable of supporting liquid water at surface level.

But, yes, it does have an atmosphere. Nice if you breathe CO2.

Posted by: Brazilian_Shinobi Oct 30 2011, 06:57 PM

Not only if you breathe CO2, but if you are also capable of living in such a lightly dense atmosphere.

Posted by: Snow_Fox Oct 30 2011, 10:53 PM

You're no fun.

Posted by: CanRay Oct 30 2011, 10:54 PM

I can be... Just, not recently.

Posted by: Snow_Fox Oct 31 2011, 03:05 AM

Canbe, Canray, tomayto tomahto

Posted by: Jareth Valar Nov 3 2011, 02:27 AM

Fun......Canray.....tomahto's.....no thanks.