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Posted by: Mantis Feb 8 2013, 02:35 PM

So I was thinking about just how long various bits of gear characters carry about last on a single charge and wanted to know what others thought. Now I know in a city environment this isn't usually a big deal as you can generally find a place to plug in. But what happens when you are out in the wilds or the arctic or a really nasty bit of the Barrens where there is no place to plug and charge? Vehicles and drones have a standard power cycle of 6 hours unless you upgrade it but what about your commlink or smart gun? Medkits and their autodoc, area jammers and all sorts of gear need to be powered so it can certainly be a non-trivial issue in the right environment. Thoughts?

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 8 2013, 03:46 PM

Portable solar charging station.

Also, given the general trend ... batteries may last MONTHS on a single charge by the 2070s. Some devices may not even use batteries, they may instead use teeny fuel cells, or even a microturbine generator (fuel getting low? break out the eye dropper).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropower

Posted by: Medicineman Feb 8 2013, 03:58 PM

No need for Micromanagement and/or Hartwurst

HougH!
Medicineman

Posted by: Mach_Ten Feb 8 2013, 04:37 PM

also, in the current decade we have devices that can draw power wirelessly from overhead powerlines ...

add half a century and I bet PO-WiFi ™ would replace batteries

and battery efficiency has increased exponentially in past months ... again .. in time the developments may mean an iPhone that can go longer than half a day !!

probably....

Posted by: Lionhearted Feb 8 2013, 05:25 PM

They just need to find a way to upsize clock batteries

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 8 2013, 06:18 PM

Okay okay, that's enough of that. Try and keep your science fiction at least SLIGHTLY realistic, would you kindly?

;D

Posted by: Lionhearted Feb 8 2013, 06:23 PM

Why are you... never mind.
Mach, you might want to cut back on the plasmids... Just saying.

Posted by: Falconer Feb 8 2013, 06:26 PM

I'd go with using the drone rules as a basis. 6 hours of operation... before needing a recharge.

Unless you're in the barrens constantly or the wilderness... I'd probably avoid most of this as extra book keeping and hassle and irrelevant to the game. I'd only worry about it again if you're going to be away from civilization for a reasonable length of time such as a week/month in the wilderness/barrens.


For most mobile devices I'd up that to something simple like a day between recharges. Allow options like extra battery or economy like are available for drones... to up that.

For stuff like commlinks... you might treat it more based on their physical matrix attributes... like say 30 hours - response - signal. For a stock DR3 standard average link that comes to 24 hours == 1 day. Explanation: faster chips need more power, and if you're putting out signal 8 power levels!! you're going to need some juice! Maybe more complication than is called for... but just trying to model reality a bit. Overall that doesn't give much variability though so I'm not a big fan of that particular math...

Maybe (Response + Signal)/6 == days... (3+3)/6 == 1 day... that works a lot better. Really cheap low power crap like disposable phones which don't run much would go for 2 or 3 days... while your tricked out 6/6 commlink would go for 12 hours... 24 if you tossed in an extra battery or economy device upgrade.


As far has how to recharge... suncell isn't all that hard to go with. Simply plugging into a vehicle/outlet for a few minutes... (look at how fast stun batons or flash paks charge). Gridguide I'll address below.

I take the view that stuff like cyberlimbs does something akin to 'potato power'... it uses the chemical energy in your blood to recharge itself constantly... so the limb actually gets power from your digestion and normal body energy cycle just as if it were a meat limb. But that's another option right there... the datajack is sort of like a USB port... fiber optic with a little bit of power to recharge/run small toys. That energy isn't free... it's simply reflected in your food budget instead of an electric bill.



I'd be careful with the inductive charging techniques... wireless power and all works to a degree.. but you can generally only pull very small amounts of energy out of the ether. Enough to run a digital watch or some other micropower system... not much more unless you're right under a power line. (and then power companies have come and sued successfully for stolen power, they're not in the business of selling unmetered power).

That said... grid guide is an excellent example of inductive power... they put the power lines under the street and electric cars inductively power themselves off them... the grid guide can meter how far you've gone and bill electricity accordingly based on knowing your auto's location and localized power draws. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to state that many low power accessories simply steal power off grid guide.

Posted by: Mantis Feb 8 2013, 08:07 PM

Cool. I was more looking at this from a lost in the wilderness sort of idea. Many of those sort of stories become, at least somewhat, about resource management. I would see this issue showing up with a team that needs to choose just what sort of encounter justifies using their smartlinks and tacnet and other toys they usually take for granted. Sort of another way to remove toys they rely on all the time without having to actually take them away, at least for one adventure.
I don't want to micro-manage this of course and like I said, it isn't an issue in cities for the most part. I had been reading David Weber's Prince Roger series and a big issue they had through out was keeping their high tech gear in working shape for the final encounter. This is what got me thinking about power and perhaps doing a much shorter adventure with those books as a source.

Posted by: KCKitsune Feb 9 2013, 05:19 AM

If you're not completely opposed to WAR allow the mage of the group to learn recharge. Problem solved.

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 9 2013, 05:38 AM

Well, if they KNOW they're going to be away from a reliable power grid, and have any common sense whatsoever, then reasonably speaking they should know to bring along a solar charging unit or two. IRL, right now, they even have backpacks with solar panels built-in, specifically so your devices can charge while you walk or hike during the day.

Posted by: Mantis Feb 9 2013, 06:16 AM

The idea is an unplanned stay in the wilds rather than having time to prep for everything. I've done the solar cell back up before and if the mage thinks to pick up the recharge spell that would nicely solve everything. Lets say prep and the spell aren't an option.

Posted by: SpellBinder Feb 9 2013, 06:21 AM

And to think Nikolai Tesla was working on this about a century ago...

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 9 2013, 06:59 AM

Actually ... not so much. He wanted to broadcast that power wirelessly, through the air, over distances of MILES. Not one of his better ideas - and hey, even supergeniouses like him, can have a brain-failure now and then.

Posted by: SpellBinder Feb 9 2013, 07:05 AM

Hey, gotta start somewhere. First it's meters, then then dozens of meters, and soon we'll be well into kilometers. Just look at computer storage space now. Thirty years ago 5GB was huge, now it's nothing. Then battery life for a cell phone was maybe a day, now my own (and old model) lasts a week between having to be charged.

If in shadowrun you can use your own body's bioelectric field to network your PAN, why not have it be able to power or augment the power supply of small devices?

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 9 2013, 07:25 AM

No, it won't be "well into kilometers". The laws of physics preclude it. Push that much power into the atmosphere, and do you know what the result is?

Lightning. Lots of lightning. Lightning all over the place.

Posted by: Jaid Feb 9 2013, 07:30 AM

i wouldn't say it was a bad idea. frankly, it's a great idea.

he just neglected to look as closely at the math involved as he should have, and may have just possibly missed by an order of magnitude or two.

but hey, the idea wasn't a bad one. it's just those pesky physics getting in the way.

(and in any event, who's to say it couldn't eventually become possible? i know i've seen research on making a device that wirelessly electrocutes people at a few hundred feet by charging a pathway through the air... although, they always claim that it's gonna be "real soon now", and that was quite a while ago, so i imagine they've hit a few technical snags )

Posted by: Novocrane Feb 9 2013, 06:31 PM

Thermal difference, kinetic energy and static electricity are all ways to recharge devices in SR, right? I don't see why devices that have all three should ever run out of juice, unless you leave them in a controlled set of circumstances with the aim of draining the battery.

Posted by: Pepsi Jedi Feb 9 2013, 11:28 PM

I think in game terms, it's not something you have to worry about unless you're in the desert or middle of the ocean or something with out any sources of power what so ever. Batteries are growing bigger and bigger, tech is shrinking smaller and smaller. The Comlinks and such probably do have some sort of limiting factor but it's going to be large enough to the point where you don't worry about it. Charging for an hour once a week or once a month type of thing. So unless you're in an "Unusual circumstance" and purposefully are denied any sort of power source to recharge it, I don't think it'll come into play. Even in the middle of the desert or Amazon or something you're likely to have a vehicle or something where you could plug in and recharge.

I personally have two Ipads, a cell phone, an Ipod, and a laptop. I don't think I've ever, in my life, had any of the above drain all the way to 00.0%. My laptop got down to 7%.. maybe 5% once when I was on it playing wow for hours in bed, and it was simple to just plug in the cord. I carry chargers with me in my EDC bag or Tactical go bag too, and a small power strip (( Makes BUNCHES of friends at airports.)) Car, or anyplace with power and I'm good to go.

Yes shadowruns are likely to take you into less savory places, but places with absolutely no power or no way to recharge? You gotta think those are going to be few and far between. You gotta think even in the middle of the desert or something you're not going to be a weeks walk from your 'base' or 'vehicle'. Nor in the jungle. If you ARE going to be on foot, more than a week from a vehicle or base of operations, you know such and you bring a recharge or full battery.

You're more likely to find locations with out wifi to hook up to than with out any power sources.

Posted by: CanRay Feb 10 2013, 12:10 AM

Charge off of body heat.

Posted by: Shaidar Feb 10 2013, 04:51 AM

Has the rigger got a vehicle? If so as long as it has fuel I'd guess their smaller devices can get a recharge.

Posted by: Halinn Feb 10 2013, 10:18 PM

It's not so much that it's a bad idea, but more along the lines that we can choose to have wireless electricity, or wireless everything else. Radio, TV, phones, internet, etc. To have enough electricity going around in the air, it needs to fill enormous amounts of the spectrum. Also, pouring tons of energy into the atmosphere is quite wasteful and possibly dangerous.

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 10 2013, 10:32 PM

Not just possibly. Definitely.

Posted by: Lantzer Feb 10 2013, 10:40 PM

On a related note, read the old Heinlein story "Waldo". The idea of radiant power is kind of central to the story. It's also the source of the name "waldo" for remote manipulators.

Posted by: CanRay Feb 11 2013, 02:53 AM

Also the origin of Waldos, period.

Posted by: ds1138 Feb 11 2013, 02:10 PM

But Dr. Reyes told you not to do that, Mr. Simons.

Anyway I like the idea of taking away their tech-toys. Becoming totally disconnected from the grid would probably be a terrifying/evolutionary experience for people that most likely grew up without any conception of being unable to access the Matrix. Good RP to be had.

Posted by: Pepsi Jedi Feb 11 2013, 07:54 PM

I've gone into the woods, caming with no tech.

It --was-- horrible. Not anything that I'd willingly do again. I'm definatly a child of the technological age. I know HOW to do it. I can live and even prosper with no power, no phone, no computers... it's just not fun at all and I dislike it.

I like my AC (( Most of all)) and my multiple computers and such. With out them I get surly (( especially the AC)) and grumpy.

I'd imagine it'd be even worse for those people in 2074. I've said more than once, once the tech gets here I'd sign up for a headjack, cyber eyes, etc. Now in 2074 they're kinda skipping past headjacks but still. I'm down. Shadowrun would be an awesome place for me. (( and I doubt I'd even be a shadowrunner.))

Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 11 2013, 07:56 PM

It could be fine so long as you discuss the game idea with the players beforehand and ALL of them are completely okay with it. If EVEN ONE is the slightest bit uninterested, drop the idea down the well. A good way to tell is if one of the players responds to the idea with a shrug saying "Uh...I guess it could be okay..."



Right there with ya, and I also doubt that I'd be a 'runner. I'd probably sign up for a nice, safe and cushy corp cubicle position that'd give me skillwires to do what I needed to do.

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 16 2013, 04:56 PM

There is a recent scientific discovery that IMO is extremely relevant to the discussion at hand: http://www.upworthy.com/see-the-scientific-accident-that-may-change-the-world-or-at-least-your-battery-l?g=3.

Posted by: Dakka Fiend Feb 16 2013, 05:15 PM

Content-free video is free of content.

http://phys.org/news/2012-10-sponge-like-graphene-supercapacitor-electrodes.html

http://xkcd.com/678/

Posted by: Mantis Feb 16 2013, 09:06 PM

There is an XKCD for everything.
Seems everyone thinks that your gear should never run out of juice then. I thought it could be an interesting complication with getting lost in the wilderness, much as it is used as a device in movies. The whole no cell phone reception or the battery is dead thing. Perhaps even a tactical decision where you need to decide whether using that gear at a certain point is worth it against the possible need to use it later.
One thing I will point out about people saying their cell phone/laptop/etc IRL never gets depleted is that these devices are usually not run constantly (cell is on standby usually), unlike a shadowrunner's commlink with its AR feeds, cyberware monitoring, etc. that is always on and active.

Posted by: Lionhearted Feb 16 2013, 09:21 PM

There's fluff about batteries running on muscle contraction, body heat and other omnipresent elements...
Even then your functionality in the middle of nowhere would be kind of limited...
In a dead matrix zone your AR aids have no databases to access and even if they did the area might not be mapped at all or whatever freak of nature you ran into will be likely to bear your name.
Also you need to consider poor working conditions and various hazards that might kill your gear.

Posted by: Mantis Feb 16 2013, 09:39 PM

Smart guns also use AR and commlinks and are useful no matter where you are if you need to shoot something. TacNets fall into this category as well.



I'd rather not resort to destroying the player's 20,000¥+ commlinks for the sake of a story about being lost in the wilds. Having it run out of power is an easier solution and less likely to piss off the players.
Anyway, I find it somewhat weird that my shock glove or stun baton has limited charges or my gauss rifle requires battery packs to work and a standard drone only runs for 6 hours but my commlink and such will run forever off whatever power source it runs off. I'll give a pass on the cyberware and say it works from bio power and stores juice while you sleep or whatever.
Why not power shock gloves with whatever runs the commlink (or your cyberware if you really want to get technical) or let it charge however a commlink charges. Personally I think things like your commlink just get a chance to be recharged when you aren't shadowrunning. They have just as finite a power supply as the other stuff I've listed but we never get into that level of bookkeeping on the average run nor does the average run take place away from ready power sources. However, in the case of this particular adventure I feel it can and should be a detail to look at.

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 16 2013, 10:44 PM

I'm so sorry, I seem to have forgotten to pay my Omniscience Bill. So this is the first I've ever heard of that development.

Forgive me for my unworthiness.

/facepalm

Posted by: CanRay Feb 17 2013, 12:00 AM

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/99534/Shadowrun%3A-Safehouses.

Posted by: Umidori Feb 17 2013, 02:07 AM

I'd put money on this being a reference to an obscure scene in Deus Ex.

But my youtube-fu isn't turning up a clip of the conversation, so I'd have to reinstall the game to check... and then I'd have to play it all the way through again, of course.

~Umi

Posted by: Mantis Feb 17 2013, 03:42 AM

Gee Umidori, sounds like that would be rough. I'd hate think of you being forced to play a video game.
CanRay, if only you had included how long it had been since it was last charged I'd at least have some fluff to go by. Come on now, get back in there and re-write that portion for my gratification.

Posted by: Novocrane Feb 17 2013, 04:19 AM

Fortunately, it doesn't specify how that happens - which leaves us free to rub our feet on the carpet to build up static, shake it, put it under an armpit for body warmth, leave it in the sun, etc ...

Posted by: Lionhearted Feb 17 2013, 10:59 AM

As a note, isn't the penalties for going into the wild harsh enough without all your gear caving in on you?
I mean with the unhealable stun damage and all...

Posted by: Mantis Feb 17 2013, 05:36 PM

Have you seen http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1601913/? Something along those line is what I was thinking of. Once you get home it makes you thankful to only have to deal with gangers and the cops and pollution.

Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 17 2013, 05:37 PM

Really, the best answer to the question is "It doesn't matter". If you're worrying about how long the charge on a comm-link or vehicle or anything lasts, then you are micro-managing too much. Take a step back and let fun enter back into the game.

Posted by: Sengir Feb 18 2013, 11:48 PM

Small generators powered by movement of the device. Problem solved with minimal handwaving (the tech already exists in watches).

Posted by: SpellBinder Feb 19 2013, 03:26 AM

And small solar cells. My own watch is solar powered, six individual cells circling around the face, with a NiCad rechargeable battery.

Posted by: Dolanar Feb 19 2013, 03:39 AM

part of the problem is, it seems the GM WANTS the commlinks to die for a plot device, so I think the GM is just looking for rules regarding to instead of just declaring Fiat.

Posted by: CanRay Feb 19 2013, 04:06 AM

Oh, but there's so much more fun ways to do things.

*Gangers drive by with a stolen HERF Gun* "HEY! WAGESLAVES!!!" *HERF!!!* "GOOD LUCK TELECOMMUTING!!!" "Oh those sons of slitches! MUNGO, THEY KILLED YOUR HACKER 'LINK AND HAVE ICE CREAM!" "Mungo catch dem!!!" "Do you think he can catch them on foot?" "He caught the Good Humor Ork a week ago. I didn't know those ice cream trucks could go so fast, either."

Posted by: Umidori Feb 19 2013, 08:43 AM

That sounds like your average day in any random corner of Mega City One...

~Umi

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 19 2013, 08:53 AM

And ten minutes later ... Mungo the Troll becomes Mungo the EMP-Troll. Talk about a new way to "hack" cameras ...!!

Posted by: Umidori Feb 19 2013, 09:40 AM

New? You point the gun at them and pull the trigger. What difference does it make if the gun shoots energy instead of lead?

~Umi

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 19 2013, 10:07 AM

Do you seriously not put your cameras behind armor-glass domes and such ...?

Whereas, if the camera is wireless, it's completely naked to a HERF gun. (The antenna, I mean.)

Posted by: Lionhearted Feb 19 2013, 03:05 PM

Seriously Ray, give Mungo a full on short story already, I mean you got a complete metaplot growing around him already!

Posted by: X-Kalibur Feb 19 2013, 06:44 PM

Or go the Deus Ex route, run the device using bioelectricity. Just keep a handy supply of candy bars and the like on hand.

Posted by: ravensoracle Feb 19 2013, 07:11 PM

Forget the bookkeeping. Just make the batteries going dead a rsult of a glitched roll. If they don't have a glitch then they are fine. Saves a lot of headache when I run wilderness stuff.

Posted by: Umidori Feb 19 2013, 07:12 PM

Okay, so now it can't broadcast any data, but it's still collecting it and storing it in the camera's own memory chip, safe and sound for later retrieval.

If I'm going to be using any sort of gun againt a camera rather than actually safely hacking it, I'm gonna want one that can destroy the camera or otherwise prevent it from recording. Even if you have cameras "behind armor-glass domes", you can still obscure the camera's field of vision by shattering the glass into a messy wall of cracks, splinters, and flattened, embedded bullets. Or you could just use paint rounds. All a HERF gun does is fry the antenna.

~Umi

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 19 2013, 07:50 PM

No, the LEAST the HERF gun will do is fry the antenna - if the Camera isn't EMP hardened (and I seriously doubt it is), then the whole camera is fried too. Not even a Faraday cage will protect it - if the antenna is working, it's outside the cage, and provides a path down which the EMP can travel, right into the camera.

And, even better: from the outside, the camera will look completely intact. So if the local security forces send a drone or warm body to see why the camera went out ... they'll almost certainly assume it's just an equipment malfunction, and NOT necessarily a group of shadowrunners about to infiltrate the facility.

Which is not something you can say if you've been shooting it up with bullets.

Posted by: Umidori Feb 19 2013, 08:32 PM

Actually, since almost all modern electronics in 2070 are optical, not electrical, EMP does nothing except against old, outdated systems.

That's half the reason the effects of the HERF are left up to the GM. Most electronics are immune to the effect, especially things like security cameras, which would be purposefully hardened against EMP in any remotely modern security system.

EDIT - My bad, I seem to have missed the part about things connected to antennaes or power cables being vulnerable. Honestly that doesn't make any sense to me, though, since it instantly makes anything plugged into a wall socket or anything with wireless capabilities vulernable, which is just about everything, and that doesn't seem like what was intended.

As a GM, I'd strictly limit the effects to "power supplies, anything linked to an antenna or electric cable, or older/cheaper devices with integrated circuits, transistors, inductors, or silicon chips" by making only those specific portions of devices fail. So yeah, you can knock out the antennae to prevent it from communicating wirelessly, or you can knock out the power cable or the PSU and force it to operate off battery power or other backup energy. As for the internal components, if it isn't integrated circuits and silicon chips, it's fine.

~Umi

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 19 2013, 09:42 PM

The computing chips may be optical - but the power systems aren't. Also, a CMOS or similar sensor, is not an optical device in the sense of being EMP immune. A HERF gun should be able to burn out the sensor ship, just fine and dandy.


Sure they're vulnerable;their power supply hardware can be burnt out. Doesn't mean the memopry already stored on their chips is dead, or that the whole unit is junked. As for making sense? Laws of physics, man. EMPs do hella bad things to antennae, and to power systems.

Just means, it's not going to work until those parts are replaced.

Oh, also, another thing vulnerable to EMP, even without an antenna or external power connection: somethign has to generate the light used in the optical circuits, and that something is very probably EMP-vulnerable.

Which is why I am of the school that just doesn't buy "it's all EMP immune now, ha ha" for SR. Not even with 2070's tech.


The batteries would be just as fried. Current surging through them is very very bad - they could even catch fire, and THAT would do for the optical-based systems in turn.

Posted by: Umidori Feb 20 2013, 12:36 AM

I just don't see how a handheld device can create a directed EMP effect powerful enough to do what you're saying despite all the insulation these electronics ought to have. (Not even EMP-hardening, just regular insulation and housing.)

If you had a massive lightning gun or something, maybe I'd believe you. But a handheld device that uses no ammo whatsoever, not even peak-discharge batteries? It cannot possibly be strong enough to do the sorts of things you think it can. Especially when a mage casting an actual fucking Lightning Bolt at the same device will, at best, cause it to reboot.

Your interpretation of the HERF gun seems to be "it breaks all electronics ever", which is absurd. EVERYTHING has antennae. EVERYTHING has a power source. A magic device that takes no ammo to use, that doesn't create any noise or light, and that works against all electronics that aren't specially hardened against EMPs is somehow hunky-dorry with you?

Frying things like antennae, exposed wires, and outdated electronics is already pretty fucking useful. There's no real reason to insist on making the HERF gun game-breaking.

"A corporate security team? No problem! I use my HERF gun on their commlinks, their smartguns, and their cyberware! The one with cybereyes is now blind, the one with the cyberlegs is now crippled, their guns modded for Electronic Firing are now useless, and they can't call for backup! TOTALLY BALANCED."

~Umi

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 20 2013, 12:40 AM

Have I missed a description somewhere, then? I was under he impression that the HERF gun was two-handed, and as big as an Assault Cannon or LMG.

Posted by: Umidori Feb 20 2013, 12:53 AM

Glancing at it now, no, there doesn't seem to be a description. Typical of them to ignore matters like Concealability and how detectable something is...

~Umi

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 20 2013, 12:58 AM

Would also explain the lack of ammunition details. I'd probably have it spend power like an Ares Shockbeam, myself. Since that is, you know, almost literally "a lightning gun", ha!

Posted by: Novocrane Feb 20 2013, 01:01 AM

Not saying anyone is wrong, but I wouldn't go beyond this for commlinks.

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 20 2013, 01:03 AM

That's handy. But since your typical security camera isn't going to have a Signal higher than maybe 2, it basically goes offline, for all intents and purposes.

Posted by: Novocrane Feb 20 2013, 02:08 AM

Signal 3. Which is entirely outside the realm of any response I'd expect when talking about commlinks and the question of whether or not they should be fried by EMP blasts.

Posted by: Gnat Feb 24 2013, 05:16 PM

I don't have my books in front of me, but I though Com Links and most small devices were powered by your bio-electric field. I recall reading that at some point or I'm making it up...

Posted by: CanRay Feb 24 2013, 07:15 PM

*Mungo comes back with half a ganger and a bloody HERF Gun* "Mungo haz new haxxorz tuul." "That's just what we need, Mungo with a portable EMP device."

Posted by: Tashiro Feb 26 2013, 02:08 PM

http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/science/more-good-news-on-those-carbon-supercapacitors.html
Take this technology into Shadowrun, add motion-based batteries, solar cells, or just pulling off a human's bodyheat or blood flow, and I think you've got it. Or hell, plug into a wall for a minute, and you're done.

Posted by: Mantis Feb 26 2013, 04:15 PM

Yeah I've been following this. Guess they only get it to the point in SR where you can use it to charge commlinks though, as things like shock gloves and stun batons still need to be plugged in to recharge for more than a minute. I suppose it just seems weird to me that your cyberware and commlink can run essentially forever off your bio-electric charge but you need to plug in your shock gloves.

Posted by: SpellBinder Feb 26 2013, 08:26 PM

I figure the stun baton and such need a lot more juice to actually hurt someone than what's necessary to power a commlink or cyberlimb.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Feb 26 2013, 08:36 PM

It really shouldn't. Current shock weapons run off of regular 9-volt batteries and the like.


-k

Posted by: Mantis Feb 26 2013, 08:50 PM

Yeah shock weapons rely on a capacitor to deliver the charge with the battery charging the capacitor.

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 26 2013, 10:40 PM

But, current shock weapons CAN'T manage to hit someone as often as once every 0.8 seconds, 10 times in a row, without pause.

Posted by: CanRay Feb 26 2013, 10:54 PM

I'm surprised some Redneck County Mounty hasn't juryrigged up a Taser Gatling Gun. A bunch of Taser Pistols around a central shaft that goes off like a Rubber Band Gatling Gun.

Posted by: Umidori Feb 27 2013, 12:27 AM

At that point, why not just use a gun? People can die from single tasers already, getting hit with multiple in rapid succession is probably gonna be even more lethal.

~Umi

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 27 2013, 01:45 AM

Yeah, um, I think CanRay and I were thinking more "target rich environment", and less "repeatedly taze the same unlucky S.O.B." ... hahaha.

Posted by: Jaid Feb 27 2013, 04:05 AM

that's what pepper punch grenades are for.

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 27 2013, 04:09 AM

Sure, if you have ranks in Throwing Weapons.

But when you have Pistols 6, compared to Throwing Weapons 0 ...? Taser, thanks.

Also, if you're an Adept with Clubs 9, Specialised in Batons +2, and are wielding a Stun Baton that is also a Rating 4+ Weapon Focus ... yeah, the grenade isn't so helpful then, either.

Posted by: Jaid Feb 27 2013, 04:23 AM

i doubt your gatling taser qualifies as a pistol any more

although i suppose you can always suppress ^^

(and if you're talking about a baton, well, i don't think a gatling baton is a particularly useful invention, and am not in the least bit surprised that nobody has invented such a thing to my knowledge).

Posted by: _Pax._ Feb 27 2013, 05:35 AM

No, I was more referring to "taser, instead of pepper punch grenade".

Posted by: Jaid Feb 27 2013, 09:20 AM

"target-rich environment" says to me that you want to hit lots of things. hence, the pepper punch grenade.

if you've only got one person to shoot, that's not terribly target-rich.

i mean, the fact that you can come prepared to use it (ie chemical protections) while your targets only *might* have come prepared certainly mitigates a lot of the risks... if you've all got good resistance, you can just pop the danged thing in your hand when you get near your target, no throwing required

Posted by: Halinn Feb 27 2013, 05:14 PM

Maybe he's wealthy and/or named Richard.

Posted by: Pepsi Jedi Mar 3 2013, 10:10 PM

I know it's not really the point trying to be made, but some taser guns can shoot twice. Two sets of prongs. Others you can reload somewhat quickly.

I think the point is though that Tazers can't just be shot and shot and shot and shot on the current batteries that they have. Also a slow gradual usage of battery power is vastly different from dumping it all in a second or two.

Posted by: Umidori Mar 3 2013, 10:35 PM

Tasers in SR don't really operate off batteries, though, except for the Defiance EX Shocker which trails wires and can be used as a melee contact weapon.

The other tasers shoot specialized capacitor darts. Each dart contains it's own power supply.

~Umi

Posted by: Pepsi Jedi Mar 3 2013, 10:41 PM

But that's still different from the type of battery power you'd have in a comlink, right?

Posted by: Tashiro Mar 3 2013, 11:57 PM

How about a taser gun which trails wires, but that you can retract, to use again? Wouldn't that be viable?

Posted by: Shaidar Mar 6 2013, 12:38 PM

Not really, because retracting the darts would damage the prongs which keep the darts in the target.

Posted by: KCKitsune Mar 6 2013, 03:34 PM

Hey, this is kinda on topic, but not really: Can you modify a drone to have a built-in commlink?

Posted by: Jaid Mar 6 2013, 03:46 PM

drones basically already have a built-in commlink. where do you think the pilot program, autosofts, and other programs (including stuff like encryption, IC, etc) are run from?

Posted by: KCKitsune Mar 6 2013, 11:27 PM

My apologies. It was a stupid question. I will claim that I do work overnight and when I posted that question I just got off a 10 hour day.

Posted by: Falconer Mar 7 2013, 01:55 AM

KC:
It is possible to install a repeater node into/onto a drone.

All it does is repeat any signals from anything in signal range and rebroadcast them at signal rating 6.


There's another drone in Unwired which has a mobile nexus built into it as added equipment (my opinion is the drone's node and the nexus node are separate).

And if push comes to shove.. duct tape a commlink to the drone or stuff it in the cargo bay if you really need a commlink node separate from the drone.