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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ How do you deal with forbidden cyberware?
Posted by: Sage2000 Feb 17 2013, 04:06 PM
I am building a new character, and he is an ex-SWAT (probably from the FBI equivalent, but could be Lone Star SWAT).
I realised it would make sense that he had some standard cyberware, including plastic bone lacing, wired reflexes, smartlink and such. Them it hit me: if a character has some cyberware that fits his background, and it is forbidden/restricted, how should we deal with this?
I know that, in game terms, it's all about fake SINs plus fake licences. But how about a legit permit? Afterall there was an organization that legaly implanted the stuff on the character and obviously, in most cases, it would not be easly remmoved without serious side effects.
I guess the same would happen if your character was some sort of military "special ops". In the Shadowrun world you would have lots of military grade stuff (say, cyberarms with ennhancements for example) that (I think) would not necessary be removed from you if you quit.
Just wondering if anyone thought about this, how to integrate background stories and the rules in this case. As a side note I am not looking for ways to circunvent game balance, I do think we should pay the "in game price" for everything, aways.
Posted by: Epicedion Feb 17 2013, 04:18 PM
I realised it would make sense that he had some standard cyberware, including plastic bone lacing, wired reflexes, smartlink and such. Them it hit me: if a character has some cyberware that fits his background, and it is forbidden/restricted, how should we deal with this?
I know that, in game terms, it's all about fake SINs plus fake licences. But how about a legit permit? Afterall there was an organization that legaly implanted the stuff on the character and obviously, in most cases, it would not be easly remmoved without serious side effects.
I guess the same would happen if your character was some sort of military "special ops". In the Shadowrun world you would have lots of military grade stuff (say, cyberarms with ennhancements for example) that (I think) would not necessary be removed from you if you quit.
Just wondering if anyone thought about this, how to integrate background stories and the rules in this case. As a side note I am not looking for ways to circunvent game balance, I do think we should pay the "in game price" for everything, aways.
For the most part you couldn't expect to hang onto this stuff legally after your employment. Organizations aren't just going to let expensive 'ware float off, they're going to reclaim it. Governments aren't going to let you walk off with your rocket cyberarms (headline: "former ATF agent uses government-installed cyberware to massacre city block, news at 11").
If your employment ends on good terms, there should be a clause for dangerous cyberware removal. If it ends on bad terms and you steal all your cyber, you should find yourself as a wanted criminal.
Posted by: UmaroVI Feb 17 2013, 04:29 PM
"Former ATF agent uses Suprathyroid gland to eat more; improve health: news at 2:30"
Posted by: yesferatu Feb 17 2013, 05:43 PM
Restricted Gear Quality
Cost: 5 BP
The character knows just the right person to get ahold of that
one elusive piece of restricted gear or miltech weaponry she really
needed. Every time the character takes this quality at character
creation (max 3 times), she may exceptionally buy a piece of gear
with an Availability of up to 20. The character may also save the
quality to buy one such item during play.
You get busted using it for anything or really even having it. two things will happen.
1. They run your ID - real or fake
2. You clear it or you don't
Unless you are currently working for law enforcement or have a convincing license that says you are, you're probably screwed.
The only way to legally have Forbidden gear is to have a day job that makes it legal.
Posted by: Wakshaani Feb 17 2013, 06:01 PM
Well, Restricted Gear is just that ... Restricted. You *can* get permits for it, and being a police officer or bodyguard is perfectly fine rationalization.
Forbidden gear, however, is *never* legal.
Compare it to, say, having a pistol (Have a permit for that? \\ Yeah \\ Okay, have a nice day.) to having an assault shotgun ( Your ass had BEST have a permit for that!) to having a cannister of Smallpox (There is no permit in the WORLD for that.) ... the latter you might get away with in a super-secure lab with huge reduncdancies, but if it ever got outside, you're mulch.
So, try using only standard and restricted gear, stay away from Forbidden, and you should be fine.
Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 17 2013, 06:06 PM
Some things don't make sense to me to be Forbidden like Suprathyroid. There is absolutely no good reason for it to have that "F" tag.
Posted by: Lionhearted Feb 17 2013, 06:44 PM
Maybe it got some nasty long term side effects making it unfit for public consumption...
Some things are illegal for other reasons then being conducive to violence 
Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 17 2013, 06:49 PM
Some things are illegal for other reasons then being conducive to violence
There are none in the description of the implant--not any "nasty" ones anyway--and if it's not in the description it doesn't exist. Only side-effect is it makes one eat more, and that is not a valid reason for it to be Forbidden--the numerical availability is simply ludicrous as well. Period. Full stop.
Posted by: UmaroVI Feb 17 2013, 06:58 PM
Not to mention, Move By Wire does, in fact, explicitly have very nasty side effects, but only Rating 3 of it is Forbidden. The availability and legality system is just derped up in general.
Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 17 2013, 07:03 PM
A more fitting Availability for the Suprathyroid would probably be anywhere from 8 to 10 (for the numerical value) and possibly going to "R" (though even that has little if any real justification behind it).
Posted by: Lionhearted Feb 17 2013, 07:22 PM
Uhm, I think the availability is based on the stats it grant, ware generally grant +1 attribute point per 5 availability points. 20F might be a bit harsh but 8 or 10 is equal to a muscle toner 2... Which it provides way more then, including a very elusive body boost.
It should be in the range of 16-20, The forbidden part is arguable.
Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 17 2013, 07:35 PM
It should be in the range of 16-20, The forbidden part is arguable.
I could accept as high as 12, but 16 to 20 is just ridiculous considering that it is only 1 point of boost to those attributes. Even going to all physicals, 1 point is not worth an availability like that when there are no higher ratings.
Posted by: EKBT81 Feb 17 2013, 07:40 PM
I guess the same would happen if your character was some sort of military "special ops". In the Shadowrun world you would have lots of military grade stuff (say, cyberarms with ennhancements for example) that (I think) would not necessary be removed from you if you quit.
Just wondering if anyone thought about this, how to integrate background stories and the rules in this case. As a side note I am not looking for ways to circunvent game balance, I do think we should pay the "in game price" for everything, aways.
I'd probably allowed legit licenses for such job descriptions like "security contractors". For simplicity's sake I'd assume that the organization in question had offered a purchase plan and the PC has already paid the ware off with money earned between the date of him leaving the organization and the start of the campaign. However the organization should be expected to come up at least semi-regularly as an employer and I'd suggest picking the "records on file" quality for that PC. For example a former FBI agent should expect a fair amount of UCAS gov runs, a former SAS soldier might get called up when MI6 wants something done in his neck of the woods and so on. So the campaign would tend towards a specific theme.
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 17 2013, 08:42 PM
Just to throw this in here real quick:
Under SR3, there was no forbidden or restricted Bioware AT ALL as far as i remember.
Because all Bioware is inherently inert, nothing you can really control, nothing that is, in itself, dangerouzs for other people.
Posted by: EKBT81 Feb 17 2013, 08:56 PM
No, that's not the case. My copy of Man & Machine lists the following bioware implants as restricted, subject to a permit:
Adrenal Pump; Muscle Augmentation; Muscle Toner; Orthoskin; Suprathyroid Gland; Damage Compensator; Pain Editor; Synaptic Accelerator.
Chemical Glands are totally forbidden (no permit available).
Posted by: bannockburn Feb 17 2013, 08:56 PM
You remember rather wrongly. Man & Machine, p. 156 lists restricted codes for:
Adrenal Pumps, Chemical Glands, Muscle Augmentation and Toner, Suprathyroid Gland, Damage Compensators, Pain Editors and Synaptic Accelerators.
Edit: Ninja'ed ^^
In regards to forbidden cyberware: Don't get caught. It's not that easy anways to see that you have a suprathyroid gland and testing for it takes a certain time. Be subtle and you won't get hurt.
If you decide to flaunt your cyberarm gyromount ... expect to get busted. 
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 17 2013, 08:59 PM
It should be in the range of 16-20, The forbidden part is arguable.
The letter codes simply determine what happens if you are caught with the item. No one bothers about items without a letter, people having restricted items will be asked more or less politely to produce a permit, and those with a forbidden item will face legal consequences (ranging from a fine to very long prison sentences and possibly even capital punishment).
Coming back to the initial question. If the character was outfitted with a forbidden item during his employment such an item will most likely be removed upon honorable discharge/termination of contract. Who pays for the removal is up to the individual contract. I doubt any employer would let any former employ run around as a criminal.
@EKBT81: The thing is an F means that no natural person can obtain a license for such an item.
Most employers would possibly simply avoid giving such items to employees, especially if removal involves surgery.
I agree though that the decisions which items are freely available and which are forbidden, are really weird: bone density augmentation for everyone, bone lacing for no one but criminals.
Posted by: Umidori Feb 17 2013, 09:32 PM
A few things seem to be really big inflicters of the "Forbidden" attribute.
MAD Undetectability / Collapsibility / Concealability
Intended for "Military" Usage
"High Velocity" Weapons
All Heavy Weapons
Powerful Explosives
Lethal Exotic Weapons (Even Garrotes! They have a 0F availability!)
Security Bypassing Tools
Lethal Cyber Weapons
Damage Reduction / Wound Ignoring Gear
Pheremones
LAVs
Vectored Thrust
Electronic Warfare
With the Suprathyroid, I think the thing that makes it Forbidden is the bonus to Body. Plenty of other 'ware boosts Strength, Agility, and Reaction without being rated Forbidden, and increased Body helps mitigate damage, putting it in the same camp as things like Pain Editors and Damage Compensators (although strangely things like Platelate Factories aren't even R rating).
~Umi
Posted by: Falconer Feb 17 2013, 10:06 PM
I basically take the view that unless you do certain things to advertise... it's unlikely most bioware will be noticed at all even by anything except extremely skilled assensers or heavy duty medical tests.
Cyberware though is another can of worms altogether... why are you setting of metal detectors going through security check points? cyberware scanners? Assensing checks...
As far as the comment... 'F' doesn't mean illegal to everyone. The police can have 'F' items, as can corps, govts, military... it just means random Joe off the street can't get it.
It's also one of the reasons I like modular limbs... no officer that wasn't me on the tape... see I don't have a gyro built into in the arm... look in the scanner... all legit and and I have permits for it all.
And here I thought the suprathyroid was just the latest craze in dieting.. now I can eat all I want and not gain a pound and without resorting to those god awful slim-soy shakes!
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 17 2013, 10:24 PM
An individual employed by either of the three or a couple of other entities, may use the forbidden item possibly even outside of the premises of his employer, but he may not own that item.
Posted by: EKBT81 Feb 18 2013, 12:24 AM
Honestly here I'd call on the individual GM to exercise his prerogative to change setting elements like the legality of various gear to something more sensible. Especially since the inconsistencies in legality ratings (like the bone density augmentation/bone lacing example) have already been pointed out.
There are also weird changes between editions: Tailored pheromones were 100% legal in SR3, SR4 made them forbidden. 
Also, if the GM is on board with a "quasi-legal" campaign, a former corp/gov agent could conceivably "incorporate" as his own security firm, certainly so if he still maintains good relations with his former employer. Although, as I've said before, that would probably influence the campaign to a greater or lesser extent. (I'm thinking somewhat like the relation between McCall and "Control" in The Equalizer.)
Posted by: Shaidar Feb 18 2013, 12:46 AM
Might I suggest ...
Cost: 5 or 10 BP
The Deep Cover character is not who she says she is. She might not even be who she thinks she is. Through engram manipulation and training, her actual identity is buried under layers of false memories and impressions—even a Mind Probe spell can’t crack her cover, because she sincerely believes she is the person she presents herself to be. For 5 BP, this quality simply preserves her “real” personality from coming forward, letting her act in deep cover until a trigger—an image, a series of numbers, a phrase—lets her snap back and spill her guts; a second trigger puts her real self back to sleep. For 10 BP, she knows what both triggers are, and can set things up to bring herself in and out of deep cover on her schedule, no one else’s. The player should work with his or her gamemaster to de fine the character’s true personality, why she is in Deep Cover, and for whom she works.
Use Restricted Gear as necessary, along with SINner (take both varieties for your Real and Fake-Criminal Identities), and purchase a Fake SIN, this fake representing your Cover/Runner Identity. Add on a Contact designated as your Handler for LS and a series of Burner Comlinks. You could also take Wanted to highten the illusion of being an Ex-Star left one step ahead of the heat with all of that wizer 'ware.
Thus you aren't actually an Ex- anything, you are still active just undercover.
Clear with GM. Enter Walking Plot Device.
Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 18 2013, 01:19 AM
The really bad part with Bone Lacing being "F" rated is that someone who has it from the time periods that were covered by older editions quite legally are suddenly stuck as law-breakers now.
That's the "Dietware" implant.
Posted by: Wakshaani Feb 18 2013, 06:11 AM
Well, laws change, and what was legal before is illegal afterwards (For example, the banning of marijuana in the US. A week before it passed, have all you want! Afterwards, "Put the cuffs on 'em, boys.") ... so that part's fine.
That said?
Bone augmentations and cyberskellies need to have their legalities rejiggered. There are quite a few items, really, that I want to get under the hood of and correct, either for cost, performance, or availability/legality.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 18 2013, 07:41 AM
the new edition may fix some of that =S
Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 18 2013, 07:48 AM
With availability and legality, one of the best things to do is make the "F" rating exceedingly rare and reserved for the most high-end and expensive of mil-spec gear (ratings over 6, jet fighters and things like that).
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 18 2013, 02:20 PM
Posted by: Wakshaani Feb 18 2013, 04:22 PM
The MilSPec stuff certainly, but defining that is the trick.
For instance, pretty much all firearms should be Restricted, but anything that can unleash full auto should be Forbidden. Melee weapons vary... knives are legal, as are bats (But you can be hassled for taking them in certain areas, natch), tasers are fine, but a Katana is Restricted for obvious reasons.
There are a bunch of little things, like how you can buy a taser that can be used as a melee-focused stunstick, which is cheaper than a similar stunstick that can't shoot. And does more damage, IIRC. CYbernetic weapons having an Availability so high that street thugs can't get them, when they kind of define the genre's "Out of control cyberpunks" side.
Lil' things.
Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 18 2013, 06:09 PM
Look inside the parentheses of the post you quoted, Wak. Examples are given there for things worthy of "F" rating. Less than that, and it shouldn't be "F".
Posted by: NiL_FisK_Urd Feb 18 2013, 06:50 PM
I would add things like non-commercial explosives (incl. rocket launchers and hand grenades), certain drugs and toxins, and mind-control stuff like PABs or mind-control Spells.
Posted by: All4BigGuns Feb 18 2013, 06:52 PM
Possibly, but the "mind control stuff" thing just sounds like a bias against those things to me.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 18 2013, 07:07 PM
depends what you mean by mind control.
for example, a spell that makes you have an orgasm... probably not illegal (although using it on someone without their permission likely is).
the spell that makes you obey the caster even if the caster tells you to shoot yourself in the head... probably not legal to teach outside of military or equivalent organizations (and even then, for PR reasons most of them likely won't admit they have or use it). it has no lasting benefits that could be used to claim it has legitimate use for the private sector.
Posted by: Wakshaani Feb 18 2013, 07:14 PM
We'll have to disagree on that one, I feel. Things like combat jets are no-brainers, but not the limit. I don't set the bar to zero, but I'd set it far lower than you, I think. My mental legislators are less "Detroit's gone to Hell, who cares?" and more worried housewives. They stomp things out quickly, which has teh side effect of making some of them edgy and cool, which allows corps to make money.
They like the people afraid and nervous, not armed and angry. Revolutions are terrible for profit margins. (Well. Unless you're Ares. Even then, don't drek in your own yard.)
Posted by: Lionhearted Feb 18 2013, 08:23 PM
Before you set a standard you need to know what standard you're adhering to.
Are we looking for the standard of guns blazing pink mohawk, mad max with a side of mayhem?
or mirror shades downtown hong kong don't spit on the street?
Posted by: Lantzer Feb 19 2013, 01:45 PM
Under SR3, there was no forbidden or restricted Bioware AT ALL as far as i remember.
Because all Bioware is inherently inert, nothing you can really control, nothing that is, in itself, dangerouzs for other people.
Except poison spit glands, of course.
Posted by: cndblank Feb 21 2013, 07:59 PM
A little off topic, but I expect unless it was the latest encryption hardware or SOTA you would walk out of the Military with nearly every thing and the licenses for it.
Cyberware would be a major tool for enlistment and reenlistment.
The cyberware is going to be a fraction of the cost of training a soldier.
The longer you commit to stay in the more they are willing to provide.
Instead of going in to the Air force to lean how to fly you would be going in to learn how to fly and get a VCR.
I'm sure skill wires would also be popular with the military.
Most vets go in to the reserves/national guard and could be called up later.
They are certainly going to have any licensing requirement and fees waived as long as they are in the reserves.
So they have to keep their ware.
Vets also go in to the police force, Doc Wagon, and fire departments after their enlistment.
Riggers would also be in high demand.
Even if they are joining a private firms, having the ware makes them much better at their jobs and way less likely to get injured.
And a smartgun link will help prevent a lot of injuries and lawsuits.
Everyone wins.
Plus having the ware means companies are going to be trying to recruit you after enlistment.
Once more a great enlistment and retention tool.
Could you image what it would be like to go from a high grade optical suite to a plain old set of cyber eyes?
I also serious doubt that you want to go back to natural eye. No vid, no image link, needing sunglasses, going to need glasses. Hayfever and smog red eye.
Plus the hard ware would be at least a decade old.
Wired 1, a data jack, and a good set of cybereyes is under 30,000.
Add in the fact that the ware is likely at least a decade old and you would have to cover the cost of the surgery and recovery...
It is just not worth it when it can be used to retain a fully trained soldier for a couple of more years.
Which also means that at least basic cyberware is going to be fairly common.
Posted by: The Random NPC Feb 21 2013, 09:20 PM
Once more a great enlistment and retention tool.
Great enlistment tool? Sure. Great retention tool? Not on your life.
Posted by: Halinn Feb 21 2013, 09:44 PM
Why not? Include some quality of life stuff after X amount of service (get a math SPU after your first tour, earn 10,000 credits towards an upgrade of your choice per year, 50% discount on upgrading your wired reflexes while in active service, etc.)
Posted by: Wakshaani Feb 21 2013, 11:58 PM
Also, why spring for cybereyes and a smartgun link when a pair of goggles is just as good, but can be passed from one soldier to another? Why go with Wired 1 when you can just use auto-injectors and Jazz? Datajacks are useless... instead of 30,000 for that soldier package, you can do a couple shots of Jazz and some smartgoggles for, what, 500? A thousand tops?
Much better use of funding.
Posted by: Dolanar Feb 22 2013, 12:13 AM
actually drugs would be less likely than the surgery since they can have a higher detrimental effect & possibly get a soldier killed in the field, Militaries spend millions on getting soldiers trained properly & one bad dose of a drug can cause them to lose a 50k investment in a single soldier because of their own fault.
Posted by: Falconer Feb 22 2013, 02:53 AM
Wrong... drug costs are cheap as all get out... your stock basic grade PBI has to compete with things like a doberman drone in terms of cost.
Remember grunts are cheap... especially when dealing with soviet doctrine type stuff. Hopping them up with combat drugs now and then isn't going to get them hooked... and if you burnout 1 or 2 now and then.. there's tons of sinless who'd jump at the chance for 3 squares a day and a bunk.
Cyberware if installed can be removed easily as well... secondhand Wired Ref 1 anyone? Yeah it leaves an essence hole... but it does save on costs.
Though folks with continuing military relation might be a nice touch... but that'll probably only be for senior enlisted and officers.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 22 2013, 07:55 AM
i'd say many military organizations would leave at least some 'ware in.
if you got cybereyes through the military (probably a fairly popular choice for mages), they're not going to dig them out.
on the other hand, i don't think they're going to let you keep something like a bioware implant that manufactures C-4, or an injector needle connected to a nanohive loaded up with grey goo.
Posted by: NiL_FisK_Urd Feb 22 2013, 11:24 AM
Well, i could image a basic loadout for cheap "soviet-style" grunts would consist of a used datajack, used skillwires 3, a camo suit, goggles 3 (image link, smartlink, low-light), a (cheap) commlink and an AK-147 (auto-adjusting weight, external smartlink). All this costs 6425 + commlink. For another 5500 nY, one could add used Wired Reflexes 1.
Posted by: The Random NPC Feb 22 2013, 10:44 PM
Mostly because you said the companies will be trying to recruit them. The military may have some great enlistment bonuses but any company can beat the pants off of them if they want to recruit you. Therefor, the recruits will be sniped by the companies after 1 term. It happens a lot in the U.S. right now, and all you get is training.
Much better use of funding.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123778&page=1, the U.S. military already uses drugs to up the combat capabilities of their pilots.
Posted by: Falconer Feb 22 2013, 11:39 PM
Nothing new... we've been using combat drugs for decades now.
I know for certain back as far as WW2... maybe even before that.
So 5,500 or a few hours off a $10 combat popper inhaler. I know which I'd go with... especially if the troops are wearing biomonitors and you can monitor for addiction problems. (serves as a good excuse to get rid of the 'undesirables' as well to boot them out for the next batch of hobo's).
Posted by: Wakshaani Feb 23 2013, 04:08 PM
I know for certain back as far as WW2... maybe even before that.
So 5,500 or a few hours off a $10 combat popper inhaler. I know which I'd go with... especially if the troops are wearing biomonitors and you can monitor for addiction problems. (serves as a good excuse to get rid of the 'undesirables' as well to boot them out for the next batch of hobo's).
Yuppers. Cheap and disposable are the watchwords for all but the elite, really. You can start waving them around as rewards for re-upping, or as a sign that someone's graduated to special forces instead of being a grunt. Don't invest big bucks in someone unless you know that they're talented and going to stick around for a long while. If you're not sure, go low.
ALways hurts when your quarter-million-nuyen ace gets fragged by a half dozen teenagers with AK-97's on Kamakaze.
Posted by: Sage2000 Feb 23 2013, 07:25 PM
Thank you all for the opinions.
We went a little off-topic, but was very helpfull.
Posted by: Falconer Feb 23 2013, 07:36 PM
Yeah Sage... while we went a little off...
For the creme de la creme elite units. Yes they have augmentations (just look at the profession rating 5&6 NPCs and HTR)... and augmentations they can probably keep if it's higher grade stuff (at standard level you start to wonder why not harvest it and install it secondhand into the next batch of hobos). But most of them are going to be inflicted with something akin to an 'in for life' negative quality (don't recall if SR has this one or not... but it's in a lot of game systems). Part of the price they pay for getting all those expensive augmentations is they're expected to have a lot of loyalty to the unit. A serious part of your backstory should be why you did go 'rogue'. And then a wanted/records on file/enemy negative quality might make a lot of sense.
If he reached old age... or hit the end of a 10 year enlistment... or got his '20 year military retirement' if that's still in the game it's a slightly different question. In those cases... though I'd be wondering why the character doesn't have a SINNER and 'trust fund' type quality. And if he does... what is his motivation for running.
Generally the view is though once you sign on with a corp you're in for life unless you do something to get yourself kicked out (if not killed... you're one of their citizens... welcome to the borg). Or somehow get extracted by another corp to be inducted into their collective instead.
Another take is something like lone star/knight errant... might not offer the equipment for free... but they might subsidize it enough that you can buy it for a discount and explain why you have it and a license... and beat cops don't necessarily stick with the corp forever. Though once again... something like 'records on file' negative quality should be in the cards.
Posted by: Sage2000 Feb 23 2013, 09:57 PM
For the creme de la creme elite units. Yes they have augmentations (just look at the profession rating 5&6 NPCs and HTR)... and augmentations they can probably keep if it's higher grade stuff (at standard level you start to wonder why not harvest it and install it secondhand into the next batch of hobos). But most of them are going to be inflicted with something akin to an 'in for life' negative quality (don't recall if SR has this one or not... but it's in a lot of game systems). Part of the price they pay for getting all those expensive augmentations is they're expected to have a lot of loyalty to the unit. A serious part of your backstory should be why you did go 'rogue'. And then a wanted/records on file/enemy negative quality might make a lot of sense.
If he reached old age... or hit the end of a 10 year enlistment... or got his '20 year military retirement' if that's still in the game it's a slightly different question. In those cases... though I'd be wondering why the character doesn't have a SINNER and 'trust fund' type quality. And if he does... what is his motivation for running.
Generally the view is though once you sign on with a corp you're in for life unless you do something to get yourself kicked out (if not killed... you're one of their citizens... welcome to the borg). Or somehow get extracted by another corp to be inducted into their collective instead.
Another take is something like lone star/knight errant... might not offer the equipment for free... but they might subsidize it enough that you can buy it for a discount and explain why you have it and a license... and beat cops don't necessarily stick with the corp forever. Though once again... something like 'records on file' negative quality should be in the cards.
I agree. I have been developing the character concept for a couple of weeks, and only when I sat down to try to transform those words in game statistics that my doubts appeared.
I haven't entered into the detais becuse I wanted to ask specific questions, instead of ... well, wondering off, hehehe.
To add a little more detail of what I have in mind for him, his résumé:
US Marine Corps – 3 years (enlisted)
Psychology Masters Degree (Business minor) – 3 years
FBI – Special Agent – 2 years
FBI - Hostage Rescue Team – 4 years
FBI - Crisis Negotiation Unit – 3 years
So, regarding the qualities I have in mind, composing a "paladin type" (you get the D&D reference...):
(+) First Impression;
(+) Guts;
(+) High Pain Tolerance 2;
(-) Day Job [Security Consultant] 10 hours/week;
(-) Records on File [Can be FBI, Lone Star etc.];
(-) Siner [Standard];
(-) Vendetta;
(-) Enemy (2/4).
He will, at first, have a defensive behaviour, developing contacts, getting surounded by competent people. He will be arrassed by his enemies, but in the long run he will take the fight to the enemy, confronting, exposing whatever he discovered, and that motivated his "extraction"/"retirement".
Posted by: Wakshaani Feb 24 2013, 05:52 AM
Lone Star started requiring all officers to get implanted comm radios and smartgun links, back in ... '54 or so.
It didn't go over well, IIRC.
Posted by: Manunancy Feb 24 2013, 12:13 PM
On thing to keep in mind is that a 'restricted' rating might not be as liberal as it looks - basicalyy it means 'can get a permit if you show a legitimate need' - which isn't exactly eay for stuff like K-10 or similarly nasty stuff. And there's also probably a SIN check that's a wee bit more thorough than your random street control one.
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 24 2013, 02:01 PM
Posted by: Halinn Feb 24 2013, 02:54 PM
And Pepper Punch gas grenades aren't even restricted
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 24 2013, 03:49 PM
Exactly. Depending on the job I can see this as a somewhat reasonable piece of equipment for a bodyguard/operative of a private military company.
Posted by: Manunancy Feb 25 2013, 06:02 AM
Depending on what the thing is and what your other papers say, they may smell somehting fishy - a license for a grenade launcher might pass, but if your officialy someone who has no use for a grenade launcher odds are a cop will find it odd. And even if he don't arrest you, it's very likely they're going to flag you as potential trouble and pas the word to other cops and/or get a surveillane drone keeping an eye on you.
And in my opinion a cop may very well raise the bar on his check : it's as simple as transmitting the SIN or permits his onboard scan finds kosher to the home office and asking the to get a closer look at it (technicaly increasing the dice pool for spotting the fake)
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 25 2013, 06:52 AM
Posted by: Jaid Feb 25 2013, 05:36 PM
i believe he's saying that instead of using the portable (and most likely low rating) scanner built into the patrol vehicle, for something as significant as a grenade launcher the request will be sent in to head office where they most likely have a much more thorough scanning procedure available (ie a higher rating device). because whether or not your grenade launcher is actually legal is both more important and not as frequent of a thing to check... if you test every single fishing license that way, head office would get swamped, comparatively speaking. if you only test grenade launchers and other heavy weaponry, well, i don't think anyone would blame you for wanting to make sure the guy driving around town with a grenade launcher in the trunk really is allowed to do that.
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 25 2013, 06:03 PM
It is true that LEOs will check a potentially dangerous item more thoroughly than something they themselves probably don't care at all about. But the aforementioned procedures makes many assumptions:
- The LEO only has a low rating scanner in the patrol car
- there are higher rating scanners available but cannot deal with the potential workload
- The LEO or his squad car is not connected to the higher rating device anyways
None of those are actually in the rules and at least the last one does not make much sense due to the wireless matrix. So you should tell your players beforehand how your gameworld works.
In such extreme cases as fishing license vs grenade launcher this is pretty obvious but are you subjected to a higher level of scrutiny if you are caught with a headjammer instead of a lockpick set?
Posted by: Manunancy Feb 25 2013, 06:49 PM
Yes, that what I meant - fluff wise than would probably translate as a larger database, more processing power to cross-check thngs and probably a wider access to external databases from the harder to crack head office computer system.
I"ve had a quick look at the rules and they mention pitting the ID's rating against the verfying device's rating, but I didn't see what said verification rating is - but it's a safe bet there are different ratings. Which means calling home for running an ID through a better system a fairly logical move if something seems suspicious enough that the lower rating sytem's approval seems fishy. Fake SINs and licenses have been around just about as long as the legit ones, I'd expect a cop to be aware that his veryfing system can be fooled.
Oh and if you also refer to the increased surveillance level, that seems like just plain common sense that if a cop spot someone carrying gear that spells 'trouble' he'll get that person under increased surveillance. Just like your average shopping mart guard will tend to get a closer look to a scruffy ork in a two-size too big hoodie than a prim and proper elderly lady shuffling on a cane.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 26 2013, 02:01 AM
you probably should be subjected to a higher level of scrutiny for a headjammer vs a lockpick set, actually.
for one thing, mechanical locks are mostly obsolete in the 6th world, and having a set of picks is more of a curiosity than anything (unless you're in the barrens or something like that, but if you're in the barrens you're already presumed to guilty no matter what you have). but, more importantly, you can use a lockpick set in a completely harmless manner; you can have locks at home that you use them on, for example.
in contrast, a headjammer is pretty much only useful for abducting people who have built-in commlinks or who are technomancers. that's the sort of thing that tends to be not allowed in most places.
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 26 2013, 05:54 AM
Well you could also argue, that nobody needs lockpicks for their own locks, so there is very little legitimate use. I wanted to say replace the lockpicks with a maglock sequencer, to compare the headjammer to a less obsolete item, but that thing is forbidden?! So if you ever lose your passkey, the door has to be broken down 
On the other hand, the technomancer could have the headjammer to get rid of the voices in his head, or could be given out to have an unmonitored conversation. There is no need to force it onto someone.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 26 2013, 08:28 AM
technomancers can shut down their wireless whenever they feel like it.
(generally speaking though, they don't feel like it, because wired to the matrix is more or less their natural state once they become technomancers).
and no, you don't have to have your door broken down... you call up your security company, verify who you are, and they'll open it, or you have the locksmith hack it. hacking programs are merely restricted, so you're good to go.
(funny thing: BTL chip: forbidden. rating 6 black hammer: nah, that's totally legit, as long as you've got permission to own a piece of software explicitly designed to melt people's brains into a puddle of goo. just so long as you don't have any of those horrible BTLs, though.
honestly, i think the real problem is that the current system doesn't have enough granularity (there really needs to be a forbidden/serious crime vs forbidden/minor crime, for example, so that BTLs are not as bad as gamma-scopolamine or seven-7), and that in some cases things are clearly assigned to the wrong end of the spectrum (like stealth rope... is there some pressing reason that disappearing rope needs to be so severely regulated?)
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 26 2013, 10:57 AM
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Feb 26 2013, 02:14 PM
Why ever not?
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 26 2013, 02:47 PM
Because there are no fake licenses for forbidden items, nor are there any special bonuses (like being allowed to use forbidden items) if your fake history includes a job at a company that would be allowed to own and use such items and
If you could make fake documentation allowing you to possess and possibly use forbidden items, the whole Forbidden tag is kind of pointless as most shadowrunners would just get that kind of documentation instead of a fake license if they wanted to have forbidden items.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Feb 26 2013, 03:41 PM
No, it means that the ILLEGAL Fake Business Licenses will cover Forbidden Items, as long as the Licenses are not broken. Otherwise LEGITIMATE Businesses could not own/use them either. It is as simple as that. *shrug*
See, you CAN make a FAKE Business License that would allow it, it is just NOT LEGAL, Per your very own Quote. A Business is not a Private Individual.
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 26 2013, 04:54 PM
See, you CAN make a FAKE Business License that would allow it, it is just NOT LEGAL, Per your very own Quote. A Business is not a Private Individual.
There is no exception that allows the usage by a natural person in the execution of his job or duty. Yes that means that legitimate businesses cannot give access to illegal items to their employees.
To allow such would be a houserule. Houserules need to be explained to the players.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Feb 26 2013, 05:35 PM
There is no exception that allows the usage by a natural person in the execution of his job or duty. Yes that means that legitimate businesses cannot give access to illegal items to their employees.
To allow such would be a houserule. Houserules need to be explained to the players.
I read it just fine.
Again, if you have documentation that you are a representative of a Company that is allowed to utilize Forbidden tech, then you are no longer a private individual. You are reading too much into it. A Fake consultant for a Fake Security Firm could have the tech, as long as his Documentation passed verification. If not, then he is Caught, and will suffer the consequences.
There is absolutely no difference in the documentation other than one being fake and the other being legitimate. That is why there is a Rating on the Fake (Business) License. If it passes, you are legitimate and are okay to use such forbidden tech. A Legitimate Business has no check to fail, as it will ALWAYS pass..
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 26 2013, 06:01 PM
Again, if you have documentation that you are a representative of a Company that is allowed to utilize Forbidden tech, then you are no longer a private individual. You are reading too much into it. A Fake consultant for a Fake Security Firm could have the tech, as long as his Documentation passed verification. If not, then he is Caught, and will suffer the consequences.
There is absolutely no difference in the documentation other than one being fake and the other being legitimate. That is why there is a Rating on the Fake (Business) License. If it passes, you are legitimate and are okay to use such forbidden tech. A Legitimate Business has no check to fail, as it will ALWAYS pass..
Posted by: Jaid Feb 26 2013, 06:13 PM
there is plenty of reason to believe that an ingram smartgun X will be treated differently from a hunting rifle. there is even more reason to believe that it will be treated differently from a truckload of commercial explosives or a cyberware scanner built into your car's frame. they are used for different things, and there are varying levels of threat and plausibility involved... a hunting rifle is not going to be used to fill a room with lead, generally speaking, and neither the hunting rifle nor the ingram pose as much of a threat as a truckload of commercial explosives, while a cyberware scanner poses very little actual threat to anyone in and of itself.
you should expect to need a different kind of cover story, and you should expect different reactions from people in general, because they are different things with different potential levels of threat involved.
the game is not designed to think for you. a cop may not even care to check the cyberware scanner unless he's just looking to arrest you for something, whereas if confronted with a truckload of commercial explosives, they're likely to be very paranoid about it unless they are going into a demolition site of some kind, because that's how humans area. to treat everything the same would be the illogical expectation.
you, as a (presumably) real live human will react differently to illegal drugs as compared to, say, illegal firearms, simply because one poses a much greater threat to your safety. the game doesn't tell you that, because as a (presumably) real live human, you should already have some insight into how a real live human thinks.
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 26 2013, 06:51 PM
OK, "in the same way" may have been the wrong expression. What I meant was that how different items are treated differently will differ from GM to GM and from portrayed region to portrayed region. (Pink Mohawk vs. Mirrorshades and for example cannabis in the Netherlands or Indonesia of today, who knows what's the case in 2070) Such information is available to the characters but not in the rulebooks. It should be made available to the players to react accordingly.
Of course the LEO is free to not check the credentials or the PC can con him into not checking, but I don't see why the LEO would not always use the best verification system available. Making the highest ratings (which possibly are in a precinct) inaccessible in the field sounds like an ill-conceived houserule given that the LEO most likely is in constant contact with the precinct through the matrix.
Posted by: Wakshaani Feb 27 2013, 01:59 AM
Yeah, FOrbidden means "You can't have this."
There are likely exceptions, but they're tightly controlled... like teh CDC has Smallpox, but they can't take a sample and go strolling around Atlanta.
As for drugs? Illegal under UCAS law, but a Mega or three allows them. Aztechnology allows pretty much ANYTHING, for example, while Horizon allows almost as much. Stay on their territory and you can probably get a license to Brainbend. Just don't expect to jander off-campus and not be arrested.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 27 2013, 04:13 AM
Of course the LEO is free to not check the credentials or the PC can con him into not checking, but I don't see why the LEO would not always use the best verification system available. Making the highest ratings (which possibly are in a precinct) inaccessible in the field sounds like an ill-conceived houserule given that the LEO most likely is in constant contact with the precinct through the matrix.
well, you might not use a higher rating scanner for the simple reason that extensive database checks use up resources. i mean, no matrix skill is involved on the part of the user, so it's probably something roughly equivalent to a dedicated agent performing the check. it most likely can only take orders from one source at a time. and most likely, it costs money, and the security company are trying to avoid spending money unless absolutely necessary. smaller companies probably actually rent access to a higher rating verification system on a per-use basis rather than maintaining their own.
so, you use a cheap system as much as possible. if a few criminals get away with carrying around something minor, no big deal. the heavy duty in-depth searches probably have a waiting list of at least a few seconds on them... if you used them for literally everything, that waiting time would probably be hours if not more. and you can't pull someone over for 5 hours to check if their license is valid and expect to not hear back about it.
so, they'll keep the bare minimum for what they need when it's important. if it isn't important, you don't use the expensive machine.
just like every workplace *could* have absolute top-of-the-line computers, photocopiers, scanners, etc, and yet i bet if you go through most workplaces you'll find decades-old printers, fax machines, etc being used far more often. why? because they're not going to let so much as a single penny be spent unless they absolutely *have* to.
Posted by: Dakka Dakka Feb 27 2013, 06:53 AM
so, they'll keep the bare minimum for what they need when it's important. if it isn't important, you don't use the expensive machine.
Posted by: Jaid Feb 27 2013, 09:16 AM
you can have whatever node you want. somewhere in that node is an icon. you feed that icon information, and it does a search for you and spits out the response. searching a database is an action; it takes time.
so, you either invest the resources to have more of those higher rating searches, or you don't. each one you invest in can handle a certain amount of traffic. to cut down on costs, it only makes sense to use appropriate tools for the appropriate situation, and have access to the more powerful tools, with the understanding that you don't just use them all the time or it becomes cheaper to fire you and replace you with someone that doesn't put an excessive amount of strain on the company's high-end resources when most of the time, low-end software and hardware will do the job just fine.
just because there are no rules in the book defining how a given node will deal with hundreds of personas all running traffic through it at once, doesn't mean there's no effect. it costs money to buy the hardware, money to buy the software, and money to pay people to keep the hardware and software playing nice with everything else. in general, the better the results you want, the more you have to spend on it.
why would they need to tell us that companies don't always buy an unlimited supply of the absolute best hardware and software? that should be self-evident. that's how it is in real life, and it doesn't need rules to reflect it, because in some cases, the company *will* have that for all intents and purposes.
why would they need to tell us that you purchase one-time access to resources? it's already here today, right now. if you need a car for one day, you don't go to the dealership and ask to buy a car, then sell it back to them the next day; you go rent one. same deal with anything else (in fact, it's getting increasingly common now that we've got the internet to connect people more easily... there are services that will help you manage communal resources, or that will help you rent a resource that you are not currently using, etc). if you're a small security company, and you don't have the resources to invest in having a massive database maintained and organized, nor the resources to buy the hardware and software, you make a deal with lone star or knight errant or someone else and you pay them on those occasions when you need the high end security check. and you don't use that deal unless you feel the situation calls for it, because it costs money every time you send the request.
Posted by: crazyconscript Feb 27 2013, 09:40 AM
I may be backtracking a bit here, but if there is NO instance in which Forbidden is legal, then there end up being a few problems....first example I can thing of for Cyberware being bone lacing. The Watchman Cybersuite includes Bone-Lacing (F), but is marketed for security teams who are legal and who serve law-abiding clients. Surely the employing company has dispensation to allow its employees to be implanted with this stuff?
My basic understanding is that Forbidden is not so much "ALWAYS-ILLEGAL" but more "ALWAYS-ILLEGAL FOR CIVILIANS". Ruleswise I know there is nothing stopping a PC having his Fake SIN be "Bob the AresFirewatch SWAT guy", with a few licenses to back it up. But, if it was illegal for anyone to use F-rated tech even in the course of their jobs then why would it still be developed/sold outside of the underworld? I mean, your average grunt in the army would be breaking the law by firing his mil-spec weapons if it wasnt a special dispensation issued to the army. In my head that extends to Security Contractors with things like Bone Lacing or similar, and CorpSec HTR teams.
Of course, that doesnt take into account the Corp's having their own versions of what is forbidden (like the previous mentions of drug availability)
But what I am trying to get at is that while getting a carry permit (real or fake) for that Ares Predator, or making it legal to walk around with that Dermal Plating is perfectly within the realms of possibility for an individual, getting F-rating licenses requires corporate clout that is above the level of capability of most individuals. I'm not saying that there isnt the possibility of hacking into LoneStar's HTR personnel database and forging yourself legality by making a fake employee with those allowances, but it should be hard and is not covered by the rules as RAW. Of course, if an employee exploits his Forbidden ware outside of company time, I imagine they are on their own (and possibly facing BIG penalties imposed by their employee contract in addition to legal action). And in my imagination any "activation-style" F-ware would have safety's installed to prevent their use off-hours (cyber-guns being disabled at the end of the shift for example)
I apologise if I am re-hashing points that have already been made, I may have lost track of a few of the things said earlier along the way and just wanted to give my two cents
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Feb 27 2013, 02:02 PM
No Worries, crazyconscript. That was the entire gist of my previous comment chain. If an organization hasa permission to use Forbidden tech, there is nothing stopping those who can arrange to have papers showing they are part of that organization from having that tech. In this case, it is entirely supported (game wise) by purchasing the correct licenses and having either a SIN (Fake) or other Licensing (Also Fake, Obvioulsy) showing that you are part of that organization. They just better be high quality, or they are going to be seen through, and then you are caught.
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 27 2013, 03:05 PM
if illegal meant always illegal, all the time, then it would also mean:
nobody makes this, because making this is illegal.
selling this is illegal.
owning this is illegal.
so no money to be made from it. let's forget about that.
it has to be legal to be owned and used by some people, else it would not exist.
drugs are completely different in that regard.
Posted by: Epicedion Feb 27 2013, 03:16 PM
For the most part, Forbidden gear just means you can't acquire a permit to have/operate/carry in, say, Downtown Seattle. A ground-to-air missile launcher might be Forbidden, but it doesn't mean no one can have one. Corporate security could have them (on their own extraterritorial corporate holdings). Lone Star / Knight Errant might have special dispensation to have them, but no one officer is going to have a permit for it, so he can't just lug it around (and thus if you were lugging it around you'd get picked up even with Lone Star/KE credentials) outside of an approved tactical operation.
Some of the Forbidden cyberware, like apparently some bone lacing (though I disagree with that one on its face due to the medical utility of the stuff), is Forbidden -- and what that really means is that you can't find a legal body shop to install it and you'll get charged if Lone Star runs the millimeter scanner over you and picks it up.
One thing to remember is that Shadowrun is a balkanized society -- Red Samurai don't wander the streets of Seattle that much even on their off hours, so it's unlikely the corp cares about obeying Seattle restrictions on implanted 'ware. They just don't spend time in the UCAS. If a Red Samurai is in town and causes enough problems to get scanned and arrested, he's not going to flash a permit to get out of it -- Lone Star is going to call his boss and it's going to get taken care of. And then the Samurai will probably have to fall on his sword.
Also, it's not illegal if you don't get caught. A corp hit squad with a ton of Forbidden gear is going to use plausibly deniable assets and have just as much incentive to take out a Lone Star response as a runner team would.
This is where I really like the legality codes from SR3, which outline the penalties for all gear. For a lot of things, possession of a restricted/illegal item is just a fine and a trip through the Lone Star database (maybe getting a criminal file or SIN). The bone lacing might get you fined and flagged, but not jailed.
Posted by: crazyconscript Feb 27 2013, 05:11 PM
I have never actually played 3rd ed, but one thing I really like was the "just how illegal is this?" part of all the legality listings. Sure, both that assault rifle and that knife technically require a license to carry but the "legality rating" (dont recall the exact name, was like 1-12, with 12 being almost legal and 1 being something like a rocket launcher) decided how likely anyone was to call you on your possessing X item. So a guard who saw a pistol might just shrug his shoulders and just ignore it, but the same guard who spots a fully-automatic assault rifle is almost certain to have a lot more interest, since that rating was the target number for "pressing the issue", modified by laziness/alertness/being corrupt etc
Posted by: cndblank Mar 4 2013, 09:50 PM
Much better use of funding.
Because cybereyes and a smartgun link (plus a data jack) are available and functioning 100 percent of the time.
No fumbling to put them on. Totally immune to catching a low hanging branch or being knocked askew by an explosion.
And they are much more immune to environmental conditions and harder to sabotage.
Plus the soldier would be mostly immune to dust and glare which would be a big help in combat conditions.
Finally since they soldier would be using it 100% of the time, he would be a lot more familiar with enhanced visions.
A data jack and some sort of image link would be almost mandatory. Once you've paid for that you might as will give the soldier a full set of cybereye enhancements and a smart link.
What you are suggesting is what I expect a AA corp would do for it's basic security. Someone who is nine to five and would be involved in a major offensive that could last months.
I mean look at what the military spends now on equipment. I'm sure with the Mega Corps most militaries are a lot smaller, but they wouldn't be going away.
Posted by: cndblank Mar 4 2013, 09:53 PM
Remember grunts are cheap... especially when dealing with soviet doctrine type stuff. Hopping them up with combat drugs now and then isn't going to get them hooked... and if you burnout 1 or 2 now and then.. there's tons of sinless who'd jump at the chance for 3 squares a day and a bunk.
Cyberware if installed can be removed easily as well... secondhand Wired Ref 1 anyone? Yeah it leaves an essence hole... but it does save on costs.
Though folks with continuing military relation might be a nice touch... but that'll probably only be for senior enlisted and officers.
Look what happened to the Soviet Union.
Soldiers in the future will need to be more technical not less.
And if you remove cyberware you have to pay for recovery and rehab.
Posted by: cndblank Mar 4 2013, 10:17 PM
Which is why it would likely take a much longer reenlistment term and an ironclad contract to get to the good stuff installed.
Plus leave before your term is done (unless honorably discharged) and they would likely pull the cyberware to make an example.
The first enlistment you use to see who are the best prospects for long term service and then you offer them a major ware package and additional training to reenlist for 8 year or so.
By the time they finish their second enlistment, the ware will be almost 10 years old. You could then offer an updated and expanded package to reenlist for another 8 years.
That would be 20 year of service at that point.
Corps may rule the roost but they have mutually agreed to set it up where it is hard to break contracts or run off with cyberware that you don't fully own.
And illegally poaching even skilled personal from a country they are doing business in before they have legally finish their enlistment/contract would not be worth it.
Posted by: Manunancy Mar 5 2013, 06:09 AM
And illegally poaching even skilled personal from a country they are doing business in before they have legally finish their enlistment/contract would not be worth it.
With the amount of extractions, sabotage and other shadowruny stuff the corps pull out against each other, I don't think they have such agrreement. In my opinion, it's more that basically soldiers aren't worth that much and usually have loyalty stuffed through their brains, which means they're generaly not worth the trouble. And removing soldeirs who runs out can be dropped on the governement's plate at low cost by tarring them with the 'drugged up murederhobo crazy vet' brush.
Posted by: Falconer Mar 5 2013, 06:24 AM
Not right.
They'll have access to that equipment but only on the corps turf.
They step off the corp turf and their extraterritoriality doesn't protect them any more.
Even more to the point... corp sec units will have corp SINs and the equivalent of some kind of police badge. Which isn't going to be useful again off that corps turf. "F" means you're not getting a fake permit for it because it's not licensed.
About the only people carting it around normal areas will be security people on duty such as cops.
If you go around trying to impersonate a lone star officer... we'll just have to see how far that gets you. Especially if you don't have a ton invested in things like their internal procedures as well as a flock of contacts inside the 'star willing to cover for you when someone from another section starts ringing bells to see if you're really legit.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Mar 5 2013, 02:07 PM
They'll have access to that equipment but only on the corps turf.
They step off the corp turf and their extraterritoriality doesn't protect them any more.
Even more to the point... corp sec units will have corp SINs and the equivalent of some kind of police badge. Which isn't going to be useful again off that corps turf. "F" means you're not getting a fake permit for it because it's not licensed.
About the only people carting it around normal areas will be security people on duty such as cops.
If you go around trying to impersonate a lone star officer... we'll just have to see how far that gets you. Especially if you don't have a ton invested in things like their internal procedures as well as a flock of contacts inside the 'star willing to cover for you when someone from another section starts ringing bells to see if you're really legit.
Depends... If My credentials show me as a Knight Errant HRT guy, I can have the stuff transporting to my Doss (as it is highly unlikely they operate on you to add/remove cyberware at the start/end of your shift); and since they have the city contract, well, I can go anywhere except Corp Territory without an invite. There is a reason that Security/Cop Personnel are good choices to emulate. *shrug*
You can do it, it just takes you being creative.
Your example of the Lone Star guy is a good one. If you are posing as such, you likely have the backing (Contacts and whatnot) to pull it off. If not, yeah, you are likely to get caught at it eventually. *shrug*
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