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Posted by: virgileso Mar 1 2013, 03:58 AM

Background: Running SR4, not SR4A, and also have Street Magic. Girlfriend is making a stealthy mage with an emphasis on summoning & wants to make a variant on one of Mentor spirit archetypes for her character. Here's a quick summary:

Bakeneko Bipedal cat with a forked tail, trickster and chaser amongst spirits.
Benefit: +2 Summoning and Binding Tests
Disadvantage: Difficult to give up the thrill of conflict, must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test in order to wound to kill unless already wounded; as per the Cat mentor disadvantage.

Bad idea? Good idea? Reflavour and she's got a good idea?

Posted by: RHat Mar 1 2013, 04:03 AM

Too powerful. The closest thing to that advantage, off the top of my head, is the Zero-One paragon for technomancers - +1 for all sprites, but you have to spend 2 Edge to downgrade a glitch.

I seem to remember a mentor spirit archetype with the same, but can't remember it off the top of my head.

Posted by: phlapjack77 Mar 1 2013, 04:12 AM

Maybe restrict it to +2 Summoning and Binding one type of spirit. For this, maybe Beast Spirits.

Posted by: All4BigGuns Mar 1 2013, 04:20 AM

I think it's fine, but for the sake of trying to maintain harmony, maybe add in another Composure Test (making the first one Composure as well) to avoid playing pranks on people too--to go with the 'trickster' element.

Posted by: SpellBinder Mar 1 2013, 05:16 AM

QUOTE (RHat @ Feb 28 2013, 09:03 PM)

Too powerful. The closest thing to that advantage, off the top of my head, is the Zero-One paragon for technomancers - +1 for all sprites, but you have to spend 2 Edge to downgrade a glitch.

I seem to remember a mentor spirit archetype with the same, but can't remember it off the top of my head.

Sun mentor spirit has the same Edge cost on glitches, but only gives a +2 bonus to Fire/Guardian spirits (choose one). Gryphon does give a +2 to Binding tests in general (no limit on the type of spirit), but all other mentor spirits I'm aware of gives a +2 bonus to only one type of spirit (or choice of one from a list of two spirits).

Posted by: Makki Mar 1 2013, 06:14 AM

QUOTE (virgileso @ Mar 1 2013, 05:58 AM)

Background: Running SR4, not SR4A, and also have Street Magic. Girlfriend is making a stealthy mage with an emphasis on summoning & wants to make a variant on one of Mentor spirit archetypes for her character. Here's a quick summary:

Bakeneko Bipedal cat with a forked tail, trickster and chaser amongst spirits.
Benefit: +2 Summoning and Binding Tests
Disadvantage: Difficult to give up the thrill of conflict, must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test in order to wound to kill unless already wounded; as per the Cat mentor disadvantage.

Bad idea? Good idea? Reflavour and she's got a good idea?

why invent new stuff, when you can just build a mentor spirit by picking from all those mentors available?

+2 one type of spirit (the one best resembling the bakeneko) or +2 Binding all spirits
+2 Con or Illusion Spells (trickster aspect)
Cat mentor disadvantage

SR4 mentor spirits always have two "aspects" that are resembled by two more or less different advantages. Summonung AND binding would only focus on the spirit aspect.

Posted by: virgileso Mar 1 2013, 06:37 AM

She's also wondering if there's any precedence on a mentor spirit giving a bonus to Drain tests. That did bring up a question though, as it's unclear in the book. When a mentor spirit gives a +2 to a Spirit Type, does this apply to all Conjuring Tests pertaining to Summoning/Binding/Banishing that spirit type, or ALL dice rolls pertaining to or targeting the spirit?

Posted by: SpellBinder Mar 1 2013, 06:52 AM

As I understand it, the +2 to "Spirit" applies to all skill tests pertaining to that spirit (Summoning, Binding, & Banishing). Gryphon gives no other benefits to spirits other than to binding them, while Phoenix gives a -1 DP modifier to all binding tests, but still a +2 to Fire spirits (the two oddballs I know of).

As for the drain, there is some debate (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=38494) whether or not Bear gains +2 dice to drain when it's Physical damage or not. If you choose that Bear does, then it would also mean that Dark King takes a -1 penalty to resist drain when it's Physical.

If your player's really concerned about drain, she should look into fetishes & limited spells, and into getting the Centering metamagic ASAP. After the metamagic, there's a Centering focus that then also becomes an available option.

Posted by: Thanee Mar 1 2013, 11:31 AM

QUOTE (virgileso @ Mar 1 2013, 07:37 AM)

She's also wondering if there's any precedence on a mentor spirit giving a bonus to Drain tests. That did bring up a question though, as it's unclear in the book. When a mentor spirit gives a +2 to a Spirit Type, does this apply to all Conjuring Tests pertaining to Summoning/Binding/Banishing that spirit type, or ALL dice rolls pertaining to or targeting the spirit?

I think it is all Conjuring Tests, but nothing else.

Also, I agree, that you should not give a blanket bonus on Summoning (or Spellcasting), as those are the most commonly used magic skills.

Bye
Thanee

Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 1 2013, 01:36 PM

Well, at least she is in the right frame of mind for an SR Min/Max . .

Posted by: Blade Mar 1 2013, 01:49 PM

A mentor spirit is more than an appearance and benefit/disadvantage.
A mentor spirit is a concept and a philosophy. I don't know enough who Bakeneko is to judge, but I find the description too short.

As for the advantage and disadvantage, I think you'd better stick with existing ones. I agree with most posters here about bonuses on all summoning (or all spellcasting) or drain being too powerful.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Mar 1 2013, 03:14 PM

QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Feb 28 2013, 09:20 PM)