Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Pushin' Gs

Posted by: lodestar Aug 25 2003, 12:00 AM

Was just thinkin' about a piece of gear that might be useful particularly to riggers of certain vehicles, especially aircraft. To cope with problems with pulling high G manuvers. Firstly, do riggers who are rigging suffer the effects of blackout and redout? whether or not they do, it would probably be desirable to keep blood going to the right places. In this vein would some sort of blood pump or something be useful? What bonuses might it give?

In a similar vein would it be useful to have some sort of cyber gyro or headware INS system to help cope with zero-G effects? Are there rules for zero-G somewhere?

Just so you know where this is coming from I was toying with the idea of a rigger who was a former suborbital or semiballistic pilot. Questions? Ideas?

Posted by: Ed_209a Aug 25 2003, 12:07 AM

The biggest thing a rigger can do for g-forces in an airplane is to have a reclined seat.

With his brain at the same level as his heart, he can perhaps double the g-forces he can withstand.

Posted by: Ancient History Aug 25 2003, 12:07 AM

Well, first it would dependon whether or not the rigger was in the vehicle.

Second, I think that Synthcardium, P4MO and Oxy-Rush would be able to handle that just fine.

Posted by: Fix-it Aug 25 2003, 12:51 AM

I doubt a simple G-suit would be that expensive, OR hard to get.

http://www.allmilitarysurplus.com/en-us/dept_66.html

Sure, it's russian stuff, so not too high quality. But it's better than nothing.

Posted by: TheScamp Aug 25 2003, 01:57 AM

QUOTE

With his brain at the same level as his heart, he can perhaps double the g-forces he can withstand.

Except when he kicks in the afterburners; though that wouldn't be nearly as bad as high-g turns.

Posted by: Boondocker Aug 25 2003, 02:11 AM

QUOTE (Ed_209a)

With his brain at the same level as his heart, he can perhaps double the g-forces he can withstand.

If this is true, the best solution might be to perform some sort of horrific surgery to transplant his brain down into his chest! Probably have to stick his eyes and ears down there too... then you may as well lop off the head and move the jaw down to between his shoulders! Man, that would look weird. Can you imagine being in a restaurant with that guy? He'd be great at parties, though.

Posted by: hobgoblin Aug 25 2003, 07:18 AM

combat pilotsare trained in actions that help control the flow of blood in the body. and with cyberware one can i guess even more so help the flow. if im not misstaken the body have many small muscles that help pump the blood around, now if the VCR helps control this (hell with the high cost for a VCR its not unbelivabal that it contains a network of small pumps to help in the flow of things). the baisc problem is that the human body isnt designed to push fluids around above 1g normaly alltho it can cope with upto 9g with outside help and i think that with inside help there is no stopping it (execpt for when pressure inside the arteries become to great and you basicy pop)...

isnt there rules for zero-g in target: awakend lands? not sure about the gyro stuff tho, but i would not be surprised if hte VCR comes with a gyro

Posted by: grendel Aug 25 2003, 09:05 AM

The acceleration you see from afterburning is negligble next to the acceleration due to maneuvering. Everybody understands the reasons for gravity (acceleration) induced loss of consciousness, and the possible counters for it. Really the best would be to have the pilot completely supine, parallel to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. This way the g-forces would act perpendicular to the direction of major blood flow, significantly reducing their effects. You could combine this further with hyperoxygenated blood (P4MO) or even blood doping, which is a little bit healthier. G-suits would probably not go away, but they would be integrated to a greater degree with the aircraft control systems to make them more responsive to maneuvering accelerations. The only specific piece of bioware which could improve G-tolerance would be the synthacardium. Stronger heart means the ability to pump blood around against a greater strain.

Posted by: annachie Aug 25 2003, 01:09 PM

And padding for the rigger. If he is well padded in, then he should be able to take higher G just from not being thrown around.

That F1 crash on Saturday practice in Hungary was recorded at 46G. The driver was pretty much fine.

Posted by: Cray74 Aug 25 2003, 01:37 PM

QUOTE (annachie)

That F1 crash on Saturday practice in Hungary was recorded at 46G. The driver was pretty much fine.

Brief, high G shocks (less than a fraction of a second) are easily tolerated compared to prolonged G loads that have enough to interfere with blood flow and the like. 46Gs isn't bad - USAF rocket sled testing exposed at least one volunteer to 80Gs.

That said, existing bioware and chemistry like Ancient history suggested ("Synthcardium, P4MO and Oxy-Rush") would probably help during turns. Oxyrush would be wonderful: you have oxygen-releasing storage vessels in the brain's blood supply. Who cares if the heart is pinned immobile for a 1-second, 30G turn?

Some of the ideas in Cyberpunk 2020 also look useful. The "distributed heart" bioware option isn't quite applicable (is that Chromebook 1 or 2?), but it points the way toward "upgraded arteries" that act as booster blood pumps. Fighter pilots squeeze blood out of their legs by clenching their leg muscles now - what if their femoral arteries were actually single- or two-chamber "remote hearts"? Ditto on the carotids.

Cyberware solutions seem obvious: a small tank of pressurized oxygen or other O2 storage method in the skull, with its own blood/O2 exchanger and maybe a pump. If you're fully rigged into your fighter, who cares about limb motions? You only need your brain to work.

Also, bonelacing (or that bone-enhancing genetech) might not hurt, especially if the extra mass isn't a problem because you're completely rigged into the vehicle. At some point in extreme G-loadings, you'll have to worry about your ribs collapsing.

Other bioware thoughts include a variant of orthoskin: reinforced body membranes. I've seen an x-ray video clip of a chimp in centrifuge (WWII German, of course). The blood was x-ray dyed so you could watch the heart move back toward the spine as the G-forces piled up. At some level of G-loading, that's going to get out of hand. Didn't Princess Diana die of a torn aorta in her crash? Some misapplied G-loading could be nasty.

Enhanced articulation would be useful just for its joint protection - it is supposed to reinforce joints in addition to making you more limber, right? Avoid high-G sprains with it.