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Posted by: shinryu Aug 28 2013, 07:31 PM

was never 100% sure if shadowrun had full body cloning down, but assuming they do i'm wondering why high-end security forces don't have at least some personnel rigging clones. think about a troll biodrone. think about a troll biodrone filled with high end ware and that's totally braindead and you can have your best combatant rigging. expensive? sure. but for urban HTR forces and high-security forces it seems like a bitchin option. keep it on a drip IV and a muscle stimulator, and then wake it up and jump in when the shit hits the fan. if it dies, so what? it was a braindead slab of meat, and you just jump in the next clone.

for that matter, there are a lot of situations where the metahuman form would be advantageous and yet sending in a real live person is unnecessarily risky. so why wouldn't a reasonably-funded HTR team send in rigged otomos on point into high-threat situations? they're all but magic-proof and no riskier than any other drone to use, so aside from (largely solvable for big organizations) cost and wireless security issues i don't see any reason not to have a couple of rigged killbots kick in the door instead of squishy metahumans. squishy metahumans might come up on the rear. but why not have the drones take the big risks if there aren't mitigating circumstances?

Posted by: SpellBinder Aug 28 2013, 07:34 PM

Cost effectiveness is why. It's cheaper to slap some skillwires in a person than to have a clone or synthetic drone body to be rigged. It's not like Surrogates where you can buy a fake body easier than you can a used car.

Posted by: Draco18s Aug 28 2013, 09:38 PM

Escaped Clone is a quality you can have.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Aug 28 2013, 09:51 PM

A Rigged Otomo is awesome... Right up to the point that the rigger loses his Remote feed. Now, slap a Metasapient AI into that Otomo, and whooo baby...

Posted by: Sengir Aug 28 2013, 10:02 PM

Yes, however as a result force-growing process used on the clones they do not develop a working brain. From Augmentation (p. 142):

Before anyone ignites this discussion, note that any noise of biodrone technology being applied to wimps is just that: noise. Vat-grown neural and limbic systems just don’t develop to the point required.
> Butch

Proteus managed to pull off something like that for their "founders", but so far the tech has been kept under wraps, and I hope it will remain there forever

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Aug 29 2013, 12:54 AM

Those wacky Germans at Proteus... Yeah, keep that stuff under wraps. Please!

Posted by: Goonshine Aug 29 2013, 02:14 AM

I dunno, seeing all those mystic adept hacker templates with 30 dice out there...I can imagine them being grown in a vat, having their skills slapped on in an assembly line.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Aug 29 2013, 01:40 PM

Sadly.... You have a point.

Posted by: Sendaz Aug 29 2013, 06:29 PM

I get them 6 in a box from my supplier, like Bon Bons.

Posted by: Sengir Aug 29 2013, 09:01 PM

If you want a really scary scenario: A gang of AIs with their home node in armored shells which get implanted into vat-grown bodies. If the body is killed, or maybe another body is needed for a mission, the shell gets extracted and put into the next body. Now add an option to make backups of those AIs and we have Eclipse Phase -- which is why I hope neither will be possible. "Resleeving" in EP is a cool concept, but IMO too much of a change for SR

PS: Of course, there always is the "Invae option". Abduct people, put in a stirrup interface, done. Who misses a few squatters, anyway?

Posted by: FuelDrop Aug 29 2013, 10:19 PM

And you've gone through them already, troubleshooter?
That's a waste of Alpha Complex's resources. Report for termination immediately... you mutant commie traitor.

Posted by: shinryu Aug 29 2013, 10:35 PM

as far as cost-effectiveness goes, i'm not sure if there's any in-universe way to pin this down, but the question for a reasonably well-equipped force breaks down to:

a) find the most physically suitable specimen (say, baddest-assed troll possible), train him to kill shit and fill him with ware.

b) clone the baddest-assed troll and clone his ass (or obtain otomos), then train riggers to kill shit with that shell.

if b turns out to be cheaper than a in the long run (in terms of training, "employee turnover", etc. it might be plausible. especially since instead of one baddest-assed troll you now have several to go where needed.

i am in no way suggesting that this is something that a lot of forces would do, especially since the meat shield role is nicely filled by a cheap steel lynx and the like. i'm just thinking for situations where a "metahuman presence" is necessary, either due to the adaptability of the form or due to a need to make it look like there's a human there.

"bums with guns" as rigged security guards makes a scary amount of sense for the drastically immoral. that has to be cheaper than either otomos or clones. there could be a market for something like security bunraku, but those would be some desperate sons of bitches to take that deal. so pretty plausible in shadowrun all things considered.