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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ The best class for a face is... ?
Posted by: Noll Sep 1 2013, 04:22 PM
Let's assume I want to be an ELF with Charisma9 (exceptional attribute).
What would be in your opinion the best combat class I can add to her?
Adept? Shaman? Technomancer? Samurai?
I know that Adept has a better FACE potential (up to +6 dice in CON or negotiation etc...)
But what if I want to use the high charisma for another class? Like the Shaman drain or the Technomancer attack?
Do you think a character like this is viable? How would you put the priorities? (I tried an A skill concept myself but I'm not very good at char build)
Posted by: Draco18s Sep 1 2013, 04:23 PM
You can be a shaman face easily and have great spellcasting and great face powers.
Techno would be harder, but might be viable.
Posted by: Larsine Sep 1 2013, 04:36 PM
What would be in your opinion the best combat class I can add to her?
Adept? Shaman? Technomancer? Samurai?
There are no classes in Shadowrun. This is not D20.
Posted by: Noll Sep 1 2013, 04:46 PM
Oh thanks for pointing it out, I really needed it.
So you want me to call it... archetipe? Even if it's a point based system, you tend to make class of characters. "Face", "Shaman", "Burned Mage", etc...
Class dosn't necessarly transalte to D&D Class system. Thanks for your help.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 1 2013, 04:46 PM
What would be in your opinion the best combat class I can add to her?
Adept? Shaman? Technomancer? Samurai?
I know that Adept has a better FACE potential (up to +6 dice in CON or negotiation etc...)
But what if I want to use the high charisma for another class? Like the Shaman drain or the Technomancer attack?
Do you think a character like this is viable? How would you put the priorities? (I tried an A skill concept myself but I'm not very good at char build)
What is this Class thing of which you speak?
My Mystic Adept (Black Magic Tradition) Face has performed admirably in SR4A.
And yes, the term would indeed be Archetype.
Posted by: Sendaz Sep 1 2013, 05:12 PM
But we do have night courses at the Runner's U.
And a Magic Face is probably easier unless you hanker to play on the Matrix as a Techno.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 1 2013, 05:21 PM
Shadowrunners tend to be SINless, Classless and Free (to stave to death, or be stabbed in a dark alley for boots, or...).
Posted by: Sendaz Sep 1 2013, 05:24 PM
I once considered a Gnome Face, but while they may make good fixers and spies, the whole looking like an eternal 13yr old just makes it hard for people to take you seriously, at least until they get to know you.
Course it can be handy when your pulling out the stops and tugging at heart strings, but again it tends to be situational.
Posted by: Glyph Sep 1 2013, 05:28 PM
Adept is the easiest choice, giving you extra abilities that can go directly towards making you a better face. Shaman or technomancer are harder to do, since both of them require not only a mid-to-upper priority spot, but also an entire extra set of skills. You will basically have to choose to be a shaman/technomancer with a touch of face, or a face who is also a suboptimal shaman or technomancer.
Posted by: Ryu Sep 1 2013, 05:31 PM
A class-action lawsuit on the court of proper wording? 
Techno would be harder, but might be viable.
TMs can pull the drone network trick, yet if fight by proxy is acceptable for combat, a summoning shaman has it easy.
For direct combat I´d go with Shaman or Samurai.
Posted by: CanRay Sep 1 2013, 07:31 PM
Posted by: Noll Sep 1 2013, 08:11 PM
Well, thanks for the imput and the help.
I have no experience in SR4, I am a GM of SR3, and a friend of mine is currently GMing a new campaign with the 5ed ruleset.
One thing I noticed with SR5 priority system is that... huh... I don't like the magic column (like Mystic Adept having the same skill and spells of a pure mage)
The first concept of my face char was a human adept with 5 essence. A priority on skills... I spent almost 1point of essence to have a cyberarm, with a cyber holster where I could hide my pistol. (My idea was of an apparent armless face character, well dressed with a pistol always ready for the action when needed, and that hidden inside a cyberarm is a very cool idea, so I gladly lost 1PP.)
With PPs I bought skill enhancements (negotiation, con), voice control, kinesics and initiative.
But then it came to me the idea of an elf face to take advantage of the charisma bonus and mainly cause I've never played an elf. I'm a big fan of awakaned characters (mages, not adepts..) so I thought I might take advantage of both the worlds by having a big charisma. The only problem is... I'm not sure I like the concept of a shaman... face.
I mean, I tend to think of the face like a corporative guy (with my first char I took the SIN disvantage, so the idea was of an ex corporative that's now an outcast, kinda like Samuel Verner, but withouth the magic), and I find it hard to imagine a shaman that is very good at "faceing" things.
So... I guess the ADEPT is the best option...
Posted by: Angelone Sep 1 2013, 08:33 PM
You could go mystic adept, for adept powers and spell casting.
Posted by: Shemhazai Sep 1 2013, 10:55 PM
I mean, I tend to think of the face like a corporative guy (with my first char I took the SIN disvantage, so the idea was of an ex corporative that's now an outcast, kinda like Samuel Verner, but withouth the magic), and I find it hard to imagine a shaman that is very good at "faceing" things.
Etiquette used to require a specialization (corporate, street, tribal, for example). That corp type you're talking about looks like a salesperson to some people and is distrusted by a good chunk of the population. And any corp would be happy to have a shaman on the payroll.
That cyber arm could work against you as an adept face. It's one less power point, as well as a potential reduction to your social limit. ((Charisma x 2) + Willpower + Essence) / 3 (round up)
Posted by: FuelDrop Sep 2 2013, 12:16 AM
My favorite archtype for my face? That would be Face.
A face with all social skills (minus instruction) has two skill groups plus intimidate.
Add to that the fact that you are going to want disguise at a decent level. Also, Palming is very useful for a fast-talker (Watch Leverage/A-team/Burn notice/Hustle and see how often their talky characters distract the target with words while they pick their pocket or steal ID).
On top of THAT you're going to want multiple high language skills, because it's hard to impersonate a Russian mob boss when you don't speak Russian. Likewise, Knowledge skills can save your butt on a regular basis if someone gets talking and you don't want to blow your cover.
For this reason I highly recommend going tech. Tailored Pheromones, Voice modulator, Skill jack... all these things are awesome for a Face.
Oh, and you'll also need your general skills like at least basic ranged and melee combat, sneaking, perception.
I recommend skill A,
Attributes B,
Resources C,
Metatype D,
Magic E.
Posted by: Shemhazai Sep 2 2013, 01:03 AM
While the Charisma/Willpower synergy is very tempting, by choosing Magic for a priority you're taking a huge hit to skills and attributes. I'd like to see a magician/face build that isn't stretched too thin.
Posted by: PraetorGradivus Sep 2 2013, 01:38 AM
It depends what you want from your Magician....
You can get an Aspected Magician or Adept with a Magic Rating 3 by using D/E for Magic/Race.
That still leaves A/B/C priorities for Attributes, Skills and Money (not necessarily in that order).
If you go for Aspected Magician, stick to one class of spells and take a mentor spirit that gives bonus dice to that class of spells.
If you go Adept, I'd suggest Improved Reflexes 2 and a half point of something else... You can work on your gunfu as you initiate.
Posted by: kerbarian Sep 2 2013, 03:47 AM
I think shaman is probably the strongest option. In particular, spirits are very strong in SR5 and being able to summon big ones is mostly about being able to handle the drain. An exceptional Charisma works directly towards both that and being a face.
However, there's plenty of room in the build system to combine a face with almost any other role. For example, I put together a http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=39583 I'm pretty happy with.
Posted by: Elfenlied Sep 2 2013, 10:06 AM
Mystic Adept with Shaman Tradition and Raven Mentor spirit.
Slap on Decking, and you combine the most hated elements of SR5 in one character
Posted by: Sendaz Sep 2 2013, 10:10 AM
Slap on Decking, and you combine the most hated elements of SR5 in one character
And finish it off with the Corp SIN to really feel the love.
Posted by: Thanee Sep 2 2013, 10:18 AM
The obvious answer to any question regarding "Archetype" and "best" in SR5 is "Mystic Adept". 
Bye
Thanee
Posted by: Manunancy Sep 2 2013, 11:03 AM
A face with all social skills (minus instruction) has two skill groups plus intimidate.
Add to that the fact that you are going to want disguise at a decent level. Also, Palming is very useful for a fast-talker (Watch Leverage/A-team/Burn notice/Hustle and see how often their talky characters distract the target with words while they pick their pocket or steal ID).
On top of THAT you're going to want multiple high language skills, because it's hard to impersonate a Russian mob boss when you don't speak Russian. Likewise, Knowledge skills can save your butt on a regular basis if someone gets talking and you don't want to blow your cover.
For this reason I highly recommend going tech. Tailored Pheromones, Voice modulator, Skill jack... all these things are awesome for a Face.
Oh, and you'll also need your general skills like at least basic ranged and melee combat, sneaking, perception.
I recommend skill A,
Attributes B,
Resources C,
Metatype D,
Magic E.
For going the impersonation route, a skillwire set can be very handy to get the skills you're lacking. If you're impersonating the plumber, being able to actually fiw the leak can be a lifesaver.
Posted by: Jhaiisiin Sep 2 2013, 11:15 AM
Understanding that you like the flavor of a gun in a cyberarm holster, you may want to think about the logistics of that. Unless it's a hold-out pistol, it likely doesn't fit into an elven arm. Legs are far better for concealing those things. I did at one point have a troll with a cyberholster in an arm, but they were obvious arms with a little extra bulk, so there was plenty of room to stash a gun there.
Posted by: binarywraith Sep 2 2013, 08:32 PM
Bye
Thanee
Yup. This is, at the moment, entirely true.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 3 2013, 01:47 AM
Sadly...
Posted by: Fiddler Sep 3 2013, 08:28 AM
I would say anthropology and psychology would be the best classes for a face to take. A face is allready an archtype, magic or cyberware can be added to make your character a bit better but really best thing you can do is make sure you have a good charisma and have good social skills, it is useful even in combat look over leadership. My face is based off the old SR1 rocker.
Posted by: xsansara Sep 3 2013, 09:40 AM
Faces need Edge and Dodge. Things will go wrong and then you will be too far away for your team to protect you effectively. Alternatively, you need a shocker offense, such as summoning. Ideally, both.
One of my players asked me to build him a Face and he ended up being very happy to have high Edge and Dodge (an Adept, but that is doable with any archetype).
My opinion and experience is that Faces need something else to do as a hobby. You usually do not need super high dice pools, as your targets will tend to have low resistances. If you meet another Face, just look for another solution to the problem.
Posted by: Dolanar Sep 3 2013, 09:49 AM
wait...your face isn't able to get away with one guy at his side as a bodyguard? I thought that was basic practice for a meet of any kind where the face leaves a portion of the team. One man on site for protection in case of double cross.
Posted by: Slithery D Sep 3 2013, 12:43 PM
I think he's talking about a single guy talking his was past a guard or checkpoint. An easier Con than if you've got some street monster following you who limits the plausibility of your story and might be asked to speak for himself.
Posted by: Dolanar Sep 3 2013, 01:12 PM
I think it would depend on the story, & the cover you're taking I suppose, If you're trying to blend in, then yeah perhaps not, but playing a big shot you should always have a bodyguard on hand, dressed to the nines of course.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 3 2013, 01:47 PM
Indeed... My face would never be caught dead in ill-fitting and sub-standard clothes (if it costs less than several thousands, it is sub-standard). Unless the Con required it, of course (He really hates those Cons). He has a certain standard to uphold, after all.
Posted by: Shemhazai Sep 3 2013, 04:55 PM
I saw that on The A-Team.
Posted by: Noll Sep 3 2013, 05:25 PM
Face from A-team rocks
Posted by: Shemhazai Sep 3 2013, 05:26 PM
It was Hannibal this time with B.A. as his bodyguard.
Posted by: Thanee Sep 4 2013, 05:37 AM
That is so cliché.
Bye
Thanee
Posted by: xsansara Sep 4 2013, 06:55 AM
So wait, you basically just use your face to make high level negotiations?
Seriously?
What about Pizza delivery?
What about pretending to be an employee and then opening the doors from the inside?
What about canvassing?
What even about those types of negotiations where the other party does not want a bodyguard around, e.g. hostage type situations?
What about seducing? You take a bodyguard along, then?
That is a serious waste.
Posted by: Dolanar Sep 4 2013, 07:32 AM
no, but times when there is no bodyguard you have a sniper overwatch, either by rigger or actual sniper, & who in their right mind walks into a hostage negotiation alone & unarmed...dead guys, thats who
Posted by: Shemhazai Sep 4 2013, 11:11 AM
Faces should be good investigators, especially good at interviewing people. As such, being able to tail people, conduct surveillance, break in when necessary and generally being able to sneak around would be cool things to be good at. While being well-connected and having loads of contacts, of course.
This is the kind of character that can benefit from a variety of good attributes and skills. Being a decent driver, athlete, unarmed/melee/gun fighter, medic and other useful things fit in fine. Languages and knowledge skills (helpful for investigations as well as schmoozing) are great. And last but not least, there's cool cyberware out there to help.
That's why I think adding the Magic attribute, magical skill groups, spells/rituals/alchemy, initiating, and bonding foci stretch faces thin. That, plus the Charisma skill groups and other supplemental skills is mostly karma driven rather than things you can purchase. If, on the other hand, face characters were primarily a resources investment, then a magician face would be amazing given enough time. I'm thinking about a mystic adept shaman face though, but the character is spread thin for my tastes.
Posted by: xsansara Sep 4 2013, 11:44 AM
That is what I mean with a hobby. You can be Face/Investigator, Face/burglar, ... or Face/Mage all with decent synergy.
I also agree that Face/P.I./burglar/Mage is spread too thin.
The classic is Face/chameloen or Face/Mage
If you are worried about ressources vs. Karma, you should check out Face/decker. Though that often reads Decker/Face.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 4 2013, 01:44 PM
Apparently you do not watch any of the shows where that is the entire premise. I mean really, James Bond walks into traps all the time, with no support or backup whatsoever.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 4 2013, 01:46 PM
This is the kind of character that can benefit from a variety of good attributes and skills. Being a decent driver, athlete, unarmed/melee/gun fighter, medic and other useful things fit in fine. Languages and knowledge skills (helpful for investigations as well as schmoozing) are great. And last but not least, there's cool cyberware out there to help.
That's why I think adding the Magic attribute, magical skill groups, spells/rituals/alchemy, initiating, and bonding foci stretch faces thin. That, plus the Charisma skill groups and other supplemental skills is mostly karma driven rather than things you can purchase. If, on the other hand, face characters were primarily a resources investment, then a magician face would be amazing given enough time. I'm thinking about a mystic adept shaman face though, but the character is spread thin for my tastes.
A Mystic Adept Face can be an amazing character. I am thoroughly enjoying mine.
Posted by: Dolanar Sep 4 2013, 08:25 PM
James Bond is not an unarmed, untrained face walking into danger, which was what was mentioned. Bond handle himself, he is his own muscle, & if a Face is well prepared & geared for trouble, that's fine. but is a face has minor gun skills & leaves his gun at home (or in the car) & has no other combat skills to speak of except dodging, I would expect him to be covered in some way.
Posted by: Sendaz Sep 4 2013, 08:30 PM
To be Fair, Bond is definitely a Prime Runner with quite of experience behind him.
Also the legendary 12 Edge, thought to be impossible for most metahumans didn't hurt, especially as he regained 1 Edge for every female he seduced.
What? You thought he was just horny? Noooooo.. he was just refreshing the Edge Pool. All for Queen and Country you know.
Bad Puns/Humour was also used to refresh it and a good thing as he burned it like there was no Tomorrow.
Posted by: BishopMcQ Sep 4 2013, 08:46 PM
High and First both come to mind...
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 4 2013, 08:55 PM
Also the legendary 12 Edge, thought to be impossible for most metahumans didn't hurt, especially as he regained 1 Edge for every female he seduced.
What? You thought he was just horny? Noooooo.. he was just refreshing the Edge Pool. All for Queen and Country you know.
Bad Puns/Humour was also used to refresh it and a good thing as he burned it like there was no Tomorrow.
Too True...
Posted by: Fiddler Sep 4 2013, 09:40 PM
I think i'll make a librarian face if only there were sone bad pun to name them..
Posted by: Sendaz Sep 4 2013, 10:01 PM
Just off the top of the head are the following:
The Thesaurus
Danno. And whenever they defeat the enemy someone in the party says 'Book em Danno'
SSSSHHHHHHHH!!
Lore.
Conan The Librarian (Yes, its been used, but still classic)
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