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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Imma Charging my....wait...
Posted by: Voran Sep 23 2013, 09:51 PM
Any hints towards where things might be going with directed energy weapons like lasers? We had the Redline at what...10k or so, which made me wonder if in 5th energy weapons will be even cheaper. Or will they be pushed aside again in favor of conventional pew pew daka? should the game go the energy weapon/special weapon (gauss, etc) route? Does it lose its flavor if people start running around with blasters instead of slugthrowers?
Posted by: Tanegar Sep 23 2013, 10:07 PM
I think Shadowrun does lose some of that cyberpunk flavor if energy weapons are more common than guns. It is set in the late 21st century, and I'm fine with the existence of lasers and gauss weapons, as long as they're big, expensive, and hard to get.
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 23 2013, 10:12 PM
You can have a laser gun IN YOUR EYE!
well, it's the tool laser, but it can also be used as a laser hold out pistol kind of weapon <.< . .
i want the red line as a cyber implant gun, then we are talking!
Posted by: Voran Sep 23 2013, 11:31 PM
well, it's the tool laser, but it can also be used as a laser hold out pistol kind of weapon <.< . .
i want the red line as a cyber implant gun, then we are talking!
I figure a redline is an excellent cyber weapon, probably difficult to identify, no chemsniffer issues. Just zappity zap.
Posted by: Pariahpaladin Sep 24 2013, 12:20 AM
While we're on the topic, am I reading the defaulting rules for SR5 correctly? You cannot default with laser weapons? Meaning I would have zero chance to succeed using a Redline and pulling the trigger?
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 24 2013, 12:31 AM
Yeah, a Laser-Gun is as POINT AND SHOOT as it gets, because close to nothing will actually have any kind of effect on the shot . .
But no, you can't hold it correctly due tonever having seen one before. you don't know which end is the one that hurts. you can't hold it still enough.
You expect recoil that never happens. You did not calibrate it correctly. And most damning of all:
Your wifi is not connected to it propperly.
Posted by: toturi Sep 24 2013, 01:52 AM
"There we were, eyeball to eyeball. And then my eye laser read, 'Fully charged'."
Posted by: The Wrestling Troll Sep 24 2013, 08:38 AM
But no, you can't hold it correctly due tonever having seen one before. you don't know which end is the one that hurts. you can't hold it still enough.
You expect recoil that never happens. You did not calibrate it correctly. And most damning of all:
Your wifi is not connected to it propperly.
Well it depends on the understanding of "laser weapon". Is it for you like in star wars, where you fire a short burst? That would be Point and Click.
Reality is, real lasers would be different from "normal guns", since they build up heat and you have to keep the "Dot" steady on Target for 1-3 seconds (more or less) so that it can achieve a devastating effect.
I imagine it would be hard for a Person to shoot this steady if they're used to guns where you just can pull the trigger after aiming.
Posted by: Medicineman Sep 24 2013, 08:59 AM
well, it's the tool laser, but it can also be used as a laser hold out pistol kind of weapon <.< . .
i want the red line as a cyber implant gun, then we are talking!
only with WiFi open Bonus
with a wired Dance
Medicineman
Posted by: FuelDrop Sep 24 2013, 09:02 AM
And this is why I feel that plasma throwers/Ion throwers are the best energy weapons. No need to aim, just point it in the general direction of the enemy, pull the trigger, and everyone dies due to the massive heat of the attack whether or not they are the intended targets.
Okay. Needs a little work.
Posted by: Voran Sep 24 2013, 09:41 AM
Older editions suggest that the capacitor charge for a laser is pretty good, meaning quick application of damage as opposed to 'hold on target'. With the security stuff for example, they could have it so the laser trip beam runs at minimal levels (no dmg) then amps up to full dmg before the thing that broke the tripbeam leaves the beam.
Posted by: Surukai Sep 24 2013, 02:54 PM
The currents, charge and power required to deal meaningful effect with a laser is abyssmal.
The energy required to vaporize a chunk of flesh the size of a finger could throw a slug at escape velocity and rip apart a tank. So, given that we have amazing super conductors and portable energy that is far beyond anything else, why be stupid and make it to a pathetic laser to heat the target when throwing a slug at high speed (i.e. gauss gun or a rail gun) would be so much more effective.
Only where extreme accuracy is required would that make sense. Like for example anti-missile defences and such things, but require big heavy installations to pull off.
Just consider this. .50 Match has a muzzle energy of 20kJ. That is a big huge .50, stuff that ignores any body armour and rips a giant hole in everyone.
20kJ heats 100g flesh just over 50 degrees, it It isn't even enough to bring a mere deciliter of water to the boiling point, much less turn it into steam. It can flash a piece of flesh to steam that is around 10grams big. Sure, the steam expanding could do more damage but hardly more than the shockwave from a bullet.
So, if someone want to carve two teaspoons of flesh from my belly I'd not be happy, if someone would shoot me point blank with .50 rifle I'd die, simple as that.
Heat weapons are pathetic, and any invention allowing meaningful lasers automaticly allow completely devastating rail/coilguns that outshine those lasers in all close combat situations.
Lasers as weapons can be used to fry peoples vision, it is unethical, deals no damage (other than various grades of permanent vision damage) but other than that.. meh...
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 24 2013, 03:58 PM
Aside from Lasers being more cool than rail/coil-guns and Lasers not needing Ammo.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 24 2013, 04:54 PM
The energy required to vaporize a chunk of flesh the size of a finger could throw a slug at escape velocity and rip apart a tank. So, given that we have amazing super conductors and portable energy that is far beyond anything else, why be stupid and make it to a pathetic laser to heat the target when throwing a slug at high speed (i.e. gauss gun or a rail gun) would be so much more effective.
Only where extreme accuracy is required would that make sense. Kike anti-missile defences and such things, but require big heavy installations to pull off.
Just consider this. .50 Match has a muzzle energy of 20kJ. That is a big huge .50, stuff that ignores any body armour and rips a giant hole in everyone.
20kJ heats 100g flesh just over 50 degrees, it It isn't even enough to bring a mere deciliter of water to the boiling point, much less turn it into steam. It can flash a piece of flesh to steam that is around 10grams big. Sure, the steam expanding could do more damage but hardly more than the shockwave from a bullet.
So, if someone want to carve two teaspoons of flesh from my belly I'd not be happy, if someone would shoot me point blank with .50 rifle I'd die, simple as that.
Heat weapons are pathetic, and any invention allowing meaningful lasers automaticly allow completely devastating rail/coilguns that outshine those lasers in all close combat situations.
Lasers as weapons can be used to fry peoples vision, it is unethical, deals no damage (other than various grades of permanent vision damage) but other than that.. meh...
Your Reality is seriously damaging the Calm of my Fantasy...
Posted by: Sendaz Sep 24 2013, 05:22 PM
Meh, I will just wait until AM tech can put 1/10,000th of a gram of AM into a magnetic casing inside a bullet for delivering the equivalent of 4 tons of explosive s going off with a sniper rifle.
Oh yeah, definitely going wireless on that design, don't want a hacker bricking the magnetic casing. 
Posted by: Daier Mune Sep 24 2013, 05:31 PM
well, other than batteries or chemical tanks.
Lasers aren't really a thing you need 'till you're dealing with combat in a vacuum, and even then you're looking at distances measured in 'lightseconds'.
Magweapons and Plasma weapons, on the other hand, I could see a few interesting applications for. Especially if you're dealing with AAA Megacorp elite high-threat response teams who have more money than god to requesition equipment with.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 24 2013, 05:32 PM
Lasers aren't really a thing you need 'till you're dealing with combat in a vacuum, and even then you're looking at distances measured in 'lightseconds'.
Magweapons and Plasma weapons, on the other hand, I could see a few interesting applications for. Especially if you're dealing with AAA Megacorp elite high-threat response teams who have more money than god to requesition equipment with.
Wireless enabled Lasers can recharge their batteries wirelessly. No worries about power loss or lack of "ammunition" now.
Posted by: Sendaz Sep 24 2013, 05:35 PM
The recharge rate would be horrendously slow via induction though, there isn't that much juice flowing at any one moment using that route.
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 24 2013, 05:36 PM
Obviously, the wireless cables used in the wireless matrix nowadays are capable of transferring vastly bigger ammounts of power! . . Obviously . .
Posted by: Daier Mune Sep 24 2013, 05:37 PM
Might be a good hacker denial tactic, switch your laser to wirelessly charge and suck up all the bandwith in a city block.
Posted by: Modular Man Sep 24 2013, 07:00 PM
I do so hope you are kidding and that is not actually somewhere in the rules...
Posted by: Sendaz Sep 24 2013, 07:14 PM
He is just spoofing off the fact that wireless enable stun batons/shock gloves can recharge their cells via induction from the Matrix.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Sep 24 2013, 07:14 PM
Lasers aren't really a thing you need 'till you're dealing with combat in a vacuum, and even then you're looking at distances measured in 'lightseconds'.
Magweapons and Plasma weapons, on the other hand, I could see a few interesting applications for. Especially if you're dealing with AAA Megacorp elite high-threat response teams who have more money than god to requesition equipment with.
Even in a vacuum, throwing tons of 2mm magnetically charged slugs seems more effecient than the power draw required for a laser. Or better yet, missiles and drones.
Posted by: Daier Mune Sep 24 2013, 09:03 PM
Yeah, but unless you're firing rounds at +90% light speed, there's going to be an appreciable difference in accuracy between kinetic, particle, and laser weapons over long distances. And the energy needed to accelerate something to that speed could make for a mean x-ray laser.
Posted by: Daier Mune Sep 24 2013, 09:10 PM
Also, if you miss with a laser its not that big of a deal. You miss with a railgun, that projectile keeps falling through space until it runs into something. Like another ship or inhabited planet.
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 24 2013, 09:13 PM
Space is a big place... not really all that likely to hit anything, if you miss initially.
Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Sep 24 2013, 09:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCoHT_cHPzY
Posted by: Daier Mune Sep 24 2013, 09:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCoHT_cHPzY
High five!
Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 24 2013, 10:03 PM
I think I played just about the only character in SR4 Missions that actually had and used the eye laser.
Got captured and stripped of all worn gear at one point.
"Come closer, I have something to tell you."
-k
Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 24 2013, 10:13 PM
i did something similar in an 3E game once.
intimidation attempt, stare down, nose to nose . .
"hey, GM? how long is a combat round again? 3 seconds? how long have i been staring him into the eyes by now? 15 seconds? so that would be a -3 to a called shot then?"
*yes, but you don't have any guns on you, remember?*
"yes, but i do have my eye-tool laser, remember?"
*d'oh!*
"so, let's see here . . 4l damage . . aimed shot to the eye, 4M damage . . no armor . . hmm, 4 hits . . so . . 4D damage . . and i think this should count as being surprised so no dodge right?"
*but . . but . . ah screw it, he's dead, everybody roll for ini, this WILL be bloody!*
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Sep 24 2013, 10:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCoHT_cHPzY
Awesome...
Posted by: Voran Sep 24 2013, 11:59 PM
As noted in Mass Effect tho, firing a slug in space means someday, somewhere you're going to wreck someone's day if you miss.
edit: nevermind, everyone else said it
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