Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Jammers don't jam communication?
Posted by: DMiller Oct 10 2013, 03:06 AM
Perhaps my search-fu is failing me…
It seems in SR5 Jammers and by extension the “Jam Signals” matrix action have no effect on communications. Jamming adds to Noise, noise reduces your dice pools for matrix actions, ‘Send Message’ is the Matrix Action for communicating, however it doesn’t require a dice test at all. Therefore Jammers and Jamming do not affect your ability to ‘Send Message’.
Did I miss anything? I read the section on jammers in the gear area and the section on the Jam Signals matrix action, neither of these had any information on jamming actual communications.
If I didn’t miss it, does anyone have a suggestion on house rules to make jammers useful for jamming communications?
Thanks.
Posted by: Jaid Oct 10 2013, 04:44 AM
if the rating of jamming exceeds the rating of the device, the device can no longer use any wireless features.
it isn't explicitly stated, but i think we can safely presume that the ability to access the matrix and use matrix actions is a part of that (or at least, it's an obvious common-sense ruling that it should be... but apparently things like "you're connected to the matrix" don't generally count as wireless bonuses).
Posted by: DMiller Oct 10 2013, 05:15 AM
This seems reasonable. If the device being jammed has Noise Reduction, add that value to the device rating for the purposes of determining if the device is jammed? (So noise reduction becomes the old-time ECCM)
Posted by: Jaid Oct 10 2013, 05:42 AM
i believe that part is actually official, yes.
Posted by: Dolanar Oct 10 2013, 06:04 AM
also, I kinda think that there is an unstated wireless range based on the DR, a Jammer might reduce the range by the Jammer's rating.
Posted by: Jaid Oct 10 2013, 06:25 AM
the "unstated range" of basically everything is presumed to be 100 meters by some, based on the fact that various significant things occur at that point (first noise penalty iirc, plus it's closely related to matrix perception. maybe a couple of other things, not sure). but that's not official, that's just based on observation.
Posted by: SpellBinder Oct 10 2013, 06:32 AM
Part of why I still like SR4. Signal was a Matrix attribute and had a defined range of how far a device could communicate.
The only reason I can think of (in game) why communications devices (like cell phones) drop from Signal 6 being commonplace (like now) to Signal 2 being the standard (like SR5 seems to be) is the almighty nuyen.
Posted by: Surukai Oct 10 2013, 09:11 AM
And, if jamming works for all wireless purposes once noise > device rating then Jammers are a very good way to protect yourself against Airburst grenades (That otherwise give no defence and just simply murder you, it takes 3 hits for an attacker using a basic standard ares alpha doom rifle to turn anyone but the fattest troll to goo)
(Totally unrelated side note, you can edit communications on the fly right? Insert Bob Marley in their phone calls for another kind of jamming their communications)
Posted by: Sendaz Oct 10 2013, 11:57 AM
They still tell stories in some parts about the day Mungo hijacked a whole container truck of soyagrape preserves and 'jammed' the local LS HQ. 
Posted by: FuelDrop Oct 10 2013, 12:16 PM
*Insert obligatory Spaceballs reference here*
Posted by: thorya Oct 10 2013, 12:55 PM
It appears someone else dared to give Lone Star the raspberry.
Posted by: Draco18s Oct 10 2013, 01:23 PM
Ironically, using a satellite uplink in a matrix deadzone is still insufficient for most purposes.
(Your noise is set to "exactly 5" which is greater than most matrix devices device rating)
Posted by: Sendaz Oct 10 2013, 01:59 PM
That raises an interesting question.
When a Water Elemental manifests and engulfs a target, does it's body constitute 'water' for purposes of signal loss if the spirit was sufficiently large?
It's not true water as it's popping in from the astral, but while it is here it is effectively mobile water.
Granted if you are engulfed, you have bigger problems than losing your wireless bonus, but still under certain circumstances it may be useful.
Posted by: Sendaz Oct 10 2013, 02:05 PM
SpaceBalls II: Dark Helmet Strikes Back
Posted by: White Buffalo Oct 10 2013, 02:42 PM
When a Water Elemental manifests and engulfs a target, does it's body constitute 'water' for purposes of signal loss if the spirit was sufficiently large?
It's not true water as it's popping in from the astral, but while it is here it is effectively mobile water.
Granted if you are engulfed, you have bigger problems than losing your wireless bonus, but still under certain circumstances it may be useful.
Is engulf limited to people? It could be used on stationary computers or com gear. The posibilities...
Posted by: DMiller Oct 11 2013, 02:11 AM
The main reason this has come up is in our current game we will need to jam an emergency transponder on a min-sub. While it is under water we will be fine, but once it breaks the surface it will be broadcasting its location for all to see, and we need to stop that from happening, at least for a short while. We won't have access to the exterior of the sub until it's too late.
Edit: Oh and I'd LOVE to see a Spaceballs 2 
Posted by: Epicedion Oct 11 2013, 05:43 AM
The only reason I can think of (in game) why communications devices (like cell phones) drop from Signal 6 being commonplace (like now) to Signal 2 being the standard (like SR5 seems to be) is the almighty nuyen.
Technically any device has an infinite range, it's only limited by noise.
Posted by: SpellBinder Oct 11 2013, 06:25 AM
Yeah, I know. Was remarking more on how in SR5 everything with an icon is automatically visible within 100m while everything beyond that requires a matrix perception test. Made me think of the mesh network and the 100m was MSR.
Posted by: DMiller Oct 11 2013, 08:26 AM
Thanks to Fastern8 on the Shadowrun.com forums (http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/33897/new-to-sr-and-have-questions) the official answer has been found.
SR5 p421, Wireless Bonuses, paragraph 2, last sentence:
Posted by: Jaid Oct 11 2013, 06:46 PM
nah, it's actually just apple with texturing agents, food colouring, and artificial flavours
When a Water Elemental manifests and engulfs a target, does it's body constitute 'water' for purposes of signal loss if the spirit was sufficiently large?
It's not true water as it's popping in from the astral, but while it is here it is effectively mobile water.
Granted if you are engulfed, you have bigger problems than losing your wireless bonus, but still under certain circumstances it may be useful.
actually, the wireless bonus for an internal air tank is knowing it's purity and air level, as well as being able to activate it as a free action.
so uhhh... there is a chance that if you're engulfed, losing your wireless bonus could be one of your biggest problems
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 11 2013, 07:35 PM
so uhhh... there is a chance that if you're engulfed, losing your wireless bonus could be one of your biggest problems
Which is just another example of ignorance when it comes to DNI and Wireless. *shrug*
Posted by: Jaid Oct 12 2013, 07:18 AM
yup. hadn't even considered that, but it's pretty funny that your internal oxygen tank won't work in many of the environments where a legitimate need exists (that is, it will work just fine if you're stuck in some corporate gas chamber trap, but won't work at full functionality if, say, you have it for underwater rescues and such).
Posted by: Fiddler Oct 14 2013, 03:56 AM
No it's Spaceballs 2:the search for more money. As stated in Spaceballs. That might be spaceballs 3
Posted by: SpellBinder Oct 14 2013, 11:43 PM
SpaceBalls III: The Search For More Credit
Posted by: Sendaz Oct 15 2013, 01:43 PM
Was gonna go with Lego Spaceballs, but apparently http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/158/5/a/spaceballs_by_willdrawforfood1-d3ibure.png is also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMm-KWEMMmM
Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Oct 15 2013, 02:03 PM
Space PONIES? Uuugh...
Posted by: Draco18s Oct 15 2013, 02:46 PM
See, what's the way I like MLP. Never watched the show, but the things fans do to make it relevant to other media is amazing.
(Have I linked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sj4yJ4MPYA yet? One of the best "Attack on _____" mashups out there.)
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)