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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Incompatibility
Posted by: mister__joshua Oct 11 2013, 08:12 AM
One of the things I liked about Shadowrun when I first read it was the Augmented Maximum on attributes. It meant that no matter how many splat books are released, and how many bonuses could be accrued, it was always kept in check by the augmented maximum.
In SR5 the Aug max is replaced with an across the board +4. This is also fine, it's defined.
What I don't get is, with this Augmented Maximum, why there is the need to make so much cyber/bio incompatible with other 'ware?
I noticed this last night while converting characters from 4th to 5th. I have a character with Muscle Toner, Muscle Aug and a Suprathyroid. Pretty standard by all accounts if not cheap. While converting I noticed that Muscle Toner and Muscle Aug both now say they are incompatible with 'any augmentations that increase *attribute*. This includes Muscle Replacement.' However Muscle Replacement in the book simply says it's 'incompatible with other muscle augmentations, including toner and aug'. So, due to this, my character now has a nearly useless 100k piece of 'ware, providing a sole +1 to body (as none of the other 3 attributes stack). BUT the Suprathyroid itself doesn't say it's incompatible, so due to wording it in fact WOULD be compatible with Muscle Replacement, but not Toner or Aug. To me this makes no sense. Has anyone else noticed things like this? Is it simply a case of bad wording or is this section written as intended?
Posted by: Sendaz Oct 11 2013, 08:18 AM
And don't forget while the +4 is the new holy grail of bonus limits, they invalidate that right off the bat by going to make Wired Reflex and Reaction Enhancers stack their Reactions to go over 4 so long as they are both running wireless.
So on one hand you get a slew of incompatables and on the other you get a few golden dev favorites that get to just walk all over the limit anyway.
Consistency is not a strong suit here.
I suspect it is a matter of too many cooks, several separate parties working on the sections not communicating between themselves so you are seeing the uneven effects above.
Posted by: Axl Oct 11 2013, 10:47 AM
I recommend that you report this in the "Errata" thread. It looks like a mistake by the writers.
Posted by: mister__joshua Oct 11 2013, 11:57 AM
Well a few of the writers post on here so if they could confirm/deny this then that'd be handy. I don't want to post it as needing errata if it's actually written as intended though 
Posted by: Erik Baird Oct 11 2013, 04:46 PM
Dunno if the differences in bioware vs. cyberware were maintained in 5th, but that's where the incompatibility originally came from (back in Cybertechnolgy). Muscle replacement was a synthetic tissue replacement, while muscle toner/ augmentation were bioware treatments that had similar effects. The superthyroid was compatible with both because it wasn't a direct muscle replacement or treatment.
Posted by: Critias Oct 11 2013, 08:25 PM
It's already something that's been discussed (believe me). There's a fix in the works, particularly for the Suprathyroid issue. I would say more if I could, but NDA blah blah blah backstage discussions blah blah blah.
Posted by: mister__joshua Oct 11 2013, 09:03 PM
That's great, thanks. Out of interest, when are we expecting the first errata?
Posted by: Tanegar Oct 12 2013, 12:18 AM
Also out of interest, can we expect the second and future printings of SR5 to actually incorporate said errata?
Posted by: tasti man LH Oct 12 2013, 12:56 AM
Well, the first printing of the the SR5 core book has sold out, so the second printing should be on the way.
Posted by: Sendaz Oct 12 2013, 07:57 AM
Actually it turns out that they have secretly changed the game to ...
ErrataRun™™
Here runners pour over the books by nitpicking, debating and general arguing various points, intentions and views, RAW vs RAI, etc...
Whether the game mechanics work or not is irrelevant, the discrepancies in the printing/reasoning/understanding itself is not about bug, it's a feature. 
Plus you don't need 6 kg of dice to play.
Players instead have BP (Book Pools) to draw upon from their collections of past and present works.
Action Phase has been replaced by Posting Phase.
Surprise is replaced by Ninja Post.
Initiative is replaced by Typing Speed. Large doses of Caffeine/Sugars may add a bonus to this but YMMV.
Posted by: binarywraith Oct 12 2013, 09:11 AM
Second printing's already been confirmed to be the same jacked up proofs that the first one came off of. as I recall. Not much chance in hell of an errata'd SR5 being in print before 3rd print run at soonest, and that's assuming anyone at Catalyst beyond the writers who post here is particularly motivated to pay to get the corrections in.
Given the editing the original went to print with, my cynical suggestion is to watch for the Missions errata list and just use that.
Posted by: Critias Oct 12 2013, 02:41 PM
No idea. That's out of our hands.
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