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Posted by: Mantis Jun 16 2014, 03:41 AM

So like the topic says, who owns Colt Firearms (the corporation, not the actual guns) in the SR universe? Or are they their own entity still? Looked through some books like Corporate Guide and couldn't find anything. A search for Colt on the Shadowrun Wiki just returns entries for (shudder) Kellan Colt.
Anyone know? If so, could you also tell me which book this info can be found in. Thanks.

Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Jun 16 2014, 07:37 AM

I don't think it's been specified, but if they're not still their own company, I'd say they're a wholly-owned subsidiary of Ares.



I think I recall something about Colt being owned by Ares, but I can't be sure. Might've been a bit of fanon.

Posted by: Sengir Jun 16 2014, 08:16 AM

Shadowhelix says it's an Ares subsidiary which stages faux competition with them, but sadly no source on either.

Posted by: Critias Jun 16 2014, 09:29 AM

I wanna say Ares off the top of my head, yeah.

Posted by: Nath Jun 16 2014, 06:55 PM

As far as I know, no on has ever been able to give a source for an Ares ownership of Colt even once in the ten years I spent on Dumpshock, and I strongly suspect, having thoroughly checked over fifty sourcebooks for corporate data and read twice as much, that's because such source does not exist.

The closest it ever came to was that the Ares catalog featured in the Street Samurai Catalog did include Colt products. But since it also had Beretta, Shin Chou Kyogo, Fabrique Nationale and Northrup gear, while other sources established these companies as not Ares-owned, it proves nothing.

I guess one day a freelancer will finally decide to clearly put it and settle things for good.

Posted by: Mantis Jun 16 2014, 07:03 PM

I checked the Corporate Guide and, as it lists who owns brands like FN (Monobe, pg 213 CG) and Cavalier (Neo-Net, pg 122 CG) but not who owns Colt, that Ares does not own Colt. Since none of the other megas own it either, I suppose it is still it's own thing still. Thanks for checking.

Posted by: Wakshaani Jun 17 2014, 02:25 AM

AFAIK, Colt is a solo company. James'd be the authority on the matter, but as far as I know, COlt is a target Ares would *like* but has never managed to snag.

(Which reminds me. I need to get two new Colt weapons published.)

Posted by: CaptRory Jun 17 2014, 02:50 AM

Like the double Colt 1911? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZjppULk1Rs

Posted by: Mantis Jun 17 2014, 03:40 AM

This is definitely a case of just because you can doesn't mean you should. Just, why?

Posted by: Wakshaani Jun 17 2014, 03:45 AM

KINDa sorta maybe but not quite.

Posted by: Wakshaani Jun 17 2014, 04:04 AM

You did make me go look up an old favorite video, tho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VVOH7Ep_8w

Posted by: CaptRory Jun 17 2014, 04:12 AM

Hahaha, yeah, that's a good video. =-3

Posted by: Mantis Jun 17 2014, 05:16 AM

Yeah pretty good. The one where the guy bops himself in the face with over powered revolver is pretty good too. Wonder how many broken collarbones or shoulder joints came out of this thing.

Posted by: CaptRory Jun 17 2014, 05:22 AM

Hahaha yeah~ That one is hilarious sn't that the Nitro Express or something?

Prolly quite a few!

Posted by: Neraph Jun 18 2014, 11:58 PM

I swear I read an off-handed comment that it was a subsidiary. Maybe in Shadowtalk somewhere or something...

EDIT:

After receiving proper marksmanship lessons I can identify a few issues that'd probably help those shooters: 1) a proper standing stance, not that crappy whateverthehell they're doing would give them a heck of a lot more stability in the standing, 2) a frigging loop-sling would probably help out a hell of a lot.

Posted by: psychophipps Jun 19 2014, 01:27 AM

And the correct answer is, "Whoever the hell the GM says owns it"...

Posted by: CaptRory Jun 19 2014, 01:35 AM

Bullet Gnomes

Posted by: psychophipps Jun 19 2014, 01:38 AM

As long as the guns do the job, it could be owned by Syphilitic Ninja Vampires for all I care.

Posted by: CaptRory Jun 19 2014, 01:41 AM

I think I would walk around on fire to keep those sorts of ninjas away. Specifically I'd be on fire an smell like roasting garlic.

Posted by: hermit Jul 2 2014, 02:15 PM

I'd suspect Colt is a semi-independent company, relating to Ares like H&K relates to Saeder-Krupp. But there's no clear source; while the SSC gives hints that Colt weapons in the Ares catalogue are not livcensed or proxy sales, it doesn't say anything clearly.

Posted by: Neraph Jul 2 2014, 02:39 PM

I could've sworn it's an aside during a weapon description somewhere.

Posted by: hermit Jul 2 2014, 06:08 PM

My gut keeps telling me the same thing. In a Gun Heaven file maybe. Hm ...

Posted by: Nath Jul 2 2014, 06:33 PM

Gun H(e)aven (and Arsenal) are by far the easiest possible source to dismiss, thanks to the PDF search function. Try again.

Posted by: Sendaz Jul 2 2014, 06:47 PM

I have seen a German Wiki lists Colt as a subdivision of Ares here: http://shadowiki.de/Ares_Arms, but as it does not provide any reference as to the source of the information for that particular tidbit it may well be part of the altered German canon or just assumed.

Still slowly working though links and such to see if something turns up...

Posted by: Sengir Jul 2 2014, 06:48 PM

Hint: Ctrl+Shift+F (In Adobe Reader)

Posted by: hermit Jul 2 2014, 06:55 PM

Oh, that reference would be me, going by the SSC.

Posted by: Mantis Jul 2 2014, 08:01 PM

Where does it say in the SSC that Ares owns Colt? There are a bunch of different weapon manufacturers featured in the SSC and they aren't all owned by Ares.

Posted by: hermit Jul 2 2014, 08:02 PM

Npo, but others are said to have their product featured or some such thing. I'm not saying it's defninite proof, though. More of a vague hint.

Posted by: Mantis Jul 2 2014, 08:10 PM

Well as Colt isn't listed as a subsidiary of Ares in the Corporate Guide, I'm going to go with it being its own thing. I'd rather not go with vague hints when several of the other weapon manufacturers are outright stated to be owned by this or that mega-corp.

Posted by: hermit Jul 2 2014, 11:49 PM

The listing in the corp guide is far from a complete overview of Ares' canon holdings, though.

Posted by: Fatum Jul 4 2014, 06:33 PM

I usually go with Nath's http://nmath.free.fr/onyx/depot/Corporate%20Index%202065.xls for all my ownership determination needs, and there it's listed as independent.
Haven't seen Nath being wrong yet :ь

Posted by: Sendaz Jul 4 2014, 07:06 PM

That is a sweet piece of excel sorting, that will be very handy!

Only downside is the sources listed on the line for Colt are just for the weapons, again nothing is said in those pieces for or against it being owned by another parent company.

But it does seem pretty likely Colt is just Colt or something would have cropped up by now.

Posted by: Fatum Jul 4 2014, 07:17 PM

Yeah, a few documents like that are referenced from my archive.

Posted by: Remnar Jul 12 2014, 07:43 AM

I own a couple Colts... They make a fine 1911.

Oh, Shadowrun, right.

I go with independent on account of the fact that they are listed as their own brand (i.e. Colt Manhunter, Cobra, etc) instead of an Ares. Always was my interpretation.

Posted by: hermit Jul 12 2014, 09:52 AM

Independent brand says nothing about the status of a company. Bentley is it's own, independent brand, but really owned by much less glamorous Volkswagen, for instance (as are Lamborghini and Bugatti).

Posted by: Sendaz Jul 12 2014, 08:14 PM

Plus in Real world marketing it is not uncommon to find two 'rival' companies are actually both owned by the same parent company which use the supposed rivalry to play on brand loyalty and such.

However, nothing in canon has ever turned up linking Colt to any sort of parent company so odds still favor it being an independent company until shown otherwise.

Posted by: Fatum Jul 12 2014, 10:16 PM

Well, seeing as how Ares sells Mostrans Vodnik hovercraft under its own brand in North America, I'd say the brands used are pretty much meaningless, yeah.

Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Jul 12 2014, 11:41 PM

There's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_import.

Posted by: Sendaz Jun 18 2015, 09:14 AM

*Blows dust off the thread*

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/17/dropped-by-the-u-s-military-colt-goes-bankrupt.html

A good time to get your own Firearms company maybe?

Posted by: Cochise Jun 18 2015, 01:15 PM

~hmm~ I guess that'd be better than the Chrysler-Nissan -> Daimler-Chrysler-Nissan -> Chrysler-Nissan debacle we saw before ... Unfortunately I do not have enough pocket monies lying around to get me this particular Colt

Posted by: Sendaz Jun 18 2015, 01:19 PM

Kickstarter?

Save Colt for SR!!

Okay maybe not....

Posted by: Cochise Jun 18 2015, 01:32 PM

Would most likely end like this https://youtu.be/VT1J65KHX8E

Posted by: Wakshaani Jun 18 2015, 01:51 PM

Yeah, one of those reminders that the small arms industry just ain't that big in the grand scheme of things.

Poor Colt.

Posted by: Warlordtheft Jun 18 2015, 02:05 PM

I think it is mentioned in the SR1&2 SSC under the comments section for the M22A2 or M23 in FOF.

Posted by: Mantis Jun 18 2015, 04:49 PM

What? But the Excaliber fiasco nearly destroyed Ares. How can you say the small arms market just doesn't matter that much? All kidding aside, it is kind of sad to see such an old stand by in the arms manufacturing industry die off but then again, if they had kept up with their rivals, this wouldn't have happened.

Warlordtheft, I checked both of those sources you mentioned and Colt isn't listed as a subsidiary of Ares there either. I think people just assumed Colt was owned by Ares without any actual evidence, shadowtalk or otherwise, to back that up. I've seen nothing to say it ever belonged to Ares and so, at least in the SR universe, I think Colt still rolls onward as its own entity.

Posted by: Wakshaani Jun 19 2015, 03:41 AM

Colt's ownership, and Weapons World, has a few hiccups. I think a few writers back in the day didn't talk to one another enough, so you wound up getting several different answers. When we run into that, we try and unravel it as best we can. Usually "Well, it was earned by X, then sol doff to Y" is enough to fix it, but sometimes not so much.

Continuity! It matters, dammit.

Posted by: Sendaz Jun 19 2015, 10:32 AM

Let's not open that particular can o worms please.

As for Colt, maybe a shakeup like this might help kickdstart them in a new direction, whether more custom work weapons or something.

Posted by: Nath Jun 19 2015, 08:35 PM

That is right regarding Wapons World.

But I maintain, and will as long as someone actually provides a title and a page number (which as I said, never happened on Dumpshock or the official forum in the past 15 years), that there never was any mention of Colt ownership at all, let alone several mentions that would contradict each other. The point simply never has been addressed.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jun 24 2015, 02:00 AM

Considering how actual Colt ARs and 1911s were basically expensive but no better than off brand versions, I am not surprised that they are having a problem.

And LOL at how the article mentions how 1911s are unreliable. I have a 1911 and I love it and have used it in sporting competitions but I got a Glock for self defense precisely because of reliability. At the end of the day I just didn't trust my life to my 1911 knowing that it had like a 2% chance of developing a stoppage every time I pulled the trigger.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 24 2015, 01:24 PM

You know... it's funny, I shot a 1911 for well over a decade, and never had a single stoppage, ever. Wish I still owned that gun... to bad it was stolen along with most of my other ones.

Posted by: Sendaz Jun 24 2015, 02:15 PM

Well the thing is they always said if you able to maintain it well, you rarely had problems.
And to be fair, you were always one for more attention to detail as well as having uncanny luck so not surprised you never saw malfunctions.

However if you couldn't keep up with maintenance you had a lot more problems. And this was something a lot of troops in the last few years were facing due having little downtime for such things.
Or if you had bad luck like myself, Murphy was a common visitor.
Like the time the pin fell out of a grenade during practice.

Anyway, compare this to the AK family, which really are not the best weapon out there, but it is perfect for many as it can take a lot of abuse and still function despite poor maintenance.
So you can pretty much hand it to everyone from a child soldier to shanghaied locals and still get a lot of mileage out of it.

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Jun 24 2015, 02:32 PM

Yeah, I am pretty anal when it comes to weapon maintenance. Ill maintained weapons tend to get you killed, often when you need them the most...
For me, I tend to have far and away more issues with Faulty Ammo (especially when I was burning 500+ rounds/week) than I ever did with mechanical issues.

As for Murphy, well, you cannot really do anything about that except try to minimize the times when he can rear his ugly head.

Yep, AK's are pretty rugged, especially compared to the M16/M4 family of weapons.

Posted by: Wothanoz Jun 26 2015, 09:45 PM

As far as ruggedness goes, I've repaired my AK with a masterlock, by the simple expedient of simply whanging on it until everything went into place and worked. Thank the lawd.

Posted by: Sendaz Jul 2 2015, 06:52 PM

http://blogs.wsj.com/bankruptcy/2015/07/01/morongo-tribe-rides-to-colts-rescue/

I like the quote at the end by their attorney where he said. “We have gone to great lengths to get our hands on Colts, just ask General Custer.”

Plus we might finally see http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--sR19hfIM--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17v5xe7wkxtwajpg.jpg make production.....

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jul 3 2015, 12:03 AM

It's so awesome it makes me want to cry. If Colt is owned by Native Americans, it will be so hyper-American that it will practically violate the laws of physics. I wouldn't normally spend lots of money on a Colt, but if it gets owned by Native Americans, I would save up to buy one.

They should do TV ads and product promotions in that case. Have a costumed General Custer be like, "EVERYONE WANTS TO GET THEIR HANDS ON MY COLTS!"