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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Hosts
Posted by: Savar Jul 5 2017, 12:45 PM
Vending machine is a device.
If it was part of a popular line of stuff. I would assume the machine is in a host matrix speaking. Hosts are not based on a physical server so could all the vending machines be in the same host even if they are physical separated, or would the be part of the local locations host, such as the Stuffer Shack they are outside of?
Posted by: Jack_Spade Jul 5 2017, 01:00 PM
If you are talking about 5e:
Not exactly.
A vending machine can be slaved to a host to gain it's protection, but it can't be inside the host - only Persona's (and to a lesser extend files) can enter a host.
The machine could certainly be slaved to just one host for the whole company, but that is rather unlikely: Using a direct access hack, you could gain rather easily a mark on the machine and therefore on the host, allowing you to enter the host and establishing a direct connection to all slaved devices.
Alone for that it is more prudent to not slave the vending machine if you can't guarantee it's physical safety. Not that people don't do stupid stuff like that, but any spider with sense won't have such a security risk.
It's a lot more probable that there are dedicated security hosts that don't contain sensitive data and that have only a limited number of devices slaved to them.
Posted by: Savar Jul 5 2017, 02:38 PM
Thank you, that is allot of what I was looking for. Trying to build a street kid that lives off of vending machines. Wanted to know what they had to worry about.
Posted by: Jack_Spade Jul 6 2017, 07:16 AM
A street kid with access to a deck that is worth at least 20k?
I think you'll have a more realistic (and reliable) success rate with a micro welder to just cut open vending machines.
(or you could use my modified stealth tag approach where you add a persona mod (with parts from disassembled stealth tags) to gain a 0/3/3/3 hacking device)
Posted by: KCKitsune Jul 6 2017, 10:47 AM
I think you'll have a more realistic (and reliable) success rate with a micro welder to just cut open vending machines.
(or you could use my modified stealth tag approach where you add a persona mod (with parts from disassembled stealth tags) to gain a 0/3/3/3 hacking device)
Where would you get the Sleaze attribute from?
I know that you can add a Stealth or Attack dongle to a commlink to get Sleaze or Attack respectively. Hell, it would cost you a pretty penny, but you can get a 6/0/7/7 hacking device able to run two programs by adding an Attack dongle to a Fairlight Caliban that has been modded to have a Program Carrier (Virtual Machine).
Posted by: Jack_Spade Jul 6 2017, 11:05 AM
No dongle necessary (those are expensive)
Stealth Tags have Device Rating 3 and also a Sleaze Rating of 3. Datatrails has an electronic mod to add Persona capabilities to any device for two Electronic Packs.
Combine that and you have a cheap A 0/S 3/D 3/F 3 hacking device
Posted by: KCKitsune Jul 6 2017, 12:07 PM
Stealth Tags have Device Rating 3 and also a Sleaze Rating of 3. Datatrails has an electronic mod to add Persona capabilities to any device for two Electronic Packs.
Combine that and you have a cheap A 0/S 3/D 3/F 3 hacking device
OK, that's a nice way to do it. Now, I've got a question, if you slave this device to a regular commlink, can you still use it to Sleaze your way in the Matrix?
Posted by: Savar Jul 7 2017, 03:04 AM
I think you'll have a more realistic (and reliable) success rate with a micro welder to just cut open vending machines.
(or you could use my modified stealth tag approach where you add a persona mod (with parts from disassembled stealth tags) to gain a 0/3/3/3 hacking device)
I hadn't started on the decker, reading about emerged animals made me think of it. A Technomancer would work. Need to work on a decker and see what I could work out.
Posted by: Jack_Spade Jul 7 2017, 07:02 AM
@Savar
Yeah, a technomancer would work
@KCKitsune
No, sadly not. You can use the tag to slave gear to it so it can run silent with better protection, but to use sleaze to hack you need to build your persona on the device with the sleaze attribute.
Posted by: Titan Jul 7 2017, 11:44 AM
No, sadly not. You can use the tag to slave gear to it so it can run silent with better protection, but to use sleaze to hack you need to build your persona on the device with the sleaze attribute.
Actually, yes (RAW).
Data Trails pg 66 allows you to add persona capability to any device that doesn't already have it for two packs of parts. So for the low, low price of 410
, (400 for parts packs - if you buy the bundle, and 10 for the Stealth Tag) you can get a 0/3/3/3 "Cyberdeck-light." You can't run programs on it, or anything. But it may get the job done, depending on the job.
Posted by: KCKitsune Jul 7 2017, 01:10 PM
Data Trails pg 66 allows you to add persona capability to any device that doesn't already have it for two packs of parts. So for the low, low price of 410
, (400 for parts packs - if you buy the bundle, and 10 for the Stealth Tag) you can get a 0/3/3/3 "Cyberdeck-light." You can't run programs on it, or anything. But it may get the job done, depending on the job.VERY slight nitpick, but Stealth Tags are 10
for 10 of them. So you if you bought a 5 pack of parts you could get 2 of those "Cyberdeck-light"
Posted by: Titan Jul 7 2017, 01:19 PM
for 10 of them. So you if you bought a 5 pack of parts you could get 2 of those "Cyberdeck-light"You are absolutely correct. I always forget those RFID tag prices are for 10 packs because compared to everything else it seems so cheap... So, for 4010
you could make 10, for 401 per.9
to spend on lunch. 
Posted by: KCKitsune Jul 7 2017, 02:08 PM
you could make 10, for 401 per.9
to spend on lunch. The guy who's putting these together is a geek and therefore needs munchies!
Posted by: Jack_Spade Jul 7 2017, 03:44 PM
@Titan
You misunderstand me: You can totally hack with those tags. You just can't have them slaved to your comlink while your persona is on your comlink and still expect to be able to hack.
Oh and instead of buying packs you can just disassemble stealth tags to get parts. One stealth tag can yield 3 parts (5 if you do it in a special work area that raises the limit by 2)
So actually you just need to be good with hardware, have a tool kit and buy a 10 pack. Disassemble 2 to 3 tags and build your hack tag from that.
Posted by: KCKitsune Jul 7 2017, 04:23 PM
You misunderstand me: You can totally hack with those tags. You just can't have them slaved to your comlink while your persona is on your comlink and still expect to be able to hack.
But if the hack tag has a persona, wouldn't you still be able to hack from it? My thought is to have a "Hacker in a Can" by slaving the hack tag to the Commlink I suggested above. If the Commlink has a rating 6 Agent (one of the programs running on the Virtual Machine in the Program carrier), it could jump into the hack tag and Sleaze using it's it Logic 6, Hacking 6 stats.
So actually you just need to be good with hardware, have a tool kit and buy a 10 pack. Disassemble 2 to 3 tags and build your hack tag from that.
You have to be pretty good with hardware because there is a -4 dice pool penalty if it's another kind of device.
Posted by: Titan Jul 7 2017, 04:27 PM
You misunderstand me: You can totally hack with those tags. You just can't have them slaved to your comlink while your persona is on your comlink and still expect to be able to hack.
Oh. I thought you were saying a character couldn't form a persona on the modified Stealth Tag.
Why would you do that? For the price of about one run, or less than one months Middle Lifestyle, you could finance your own Script Kiddie Gang. Imagine the Teamwork tests you could get...
(Up to +30 Limit and +30 dice on Matrix Search actions. Of course, your Kiddies need to have a computer pool of 9+ to reliably hit that.)
Then, when they have advanced far enough, they can add an Attack Rating to it for 6 Packs.
Posted by: KCKitsune Jul 7 2017, 04:45 PM
Why would you do that? For the price of about one run, or less than one months Middle Lifestyle, you could finance your own Script Kiddie Gang. Imagine the Teamwork tests you could get...
(Up to +30 Limit and +30 dice on Matrix Search actions. Of course, your Kiddies need to have a computer pool of 9+ to reliably hit that.)
Then, when they have advanced far enough, they can add an Attack Rating to it for 6 Packs.
Not really. Unless the GM allows it, devices can only have one mod. I even asked about that in another thread.
If it was possible, then I can see a Device Rating 7, A6/S6/D7/F7 "deck" with the ability to run 2 programs for 224,980
. The closest a "Real" deck comes (in this price range) is the Renraku Tsurugi at 214,125 . Sure it can run an extra program, but with a Device Rating of 3, and stats of A6/S5/D5/F3, my "deck" is a LOT better. Also my "deck" is only 10,855 more expensive, and if you turn off the Program carrier and the Dongles, it is completely legit. Also in a cyberlimb it only takes up half the space of a cyberdeck.
Posted by: Jack_Spade Jul 7 2017, 04:54 PM
Er, no.
There seems to be a severe case of miscommunication here: I said that you add a persona mod to a tag to build a persona. Why on earth should I then say you can't build a persona on it?
Also regarding to why:
Even a Five-Pack costs 200 Nuyen per pack. Assuming you know what you are doing with hardware, you can turn a 1 Nuyen Stealth tag into 3/4 of an Electronics Pack
(this is one of the many cases where CGL writers fucked up and didn't think things through, since you basically can increase the value by 15000% with a lucky roll)
Persona Mod needs two packs of Parts. So just four tags for 4 Nuyen are enough to build a hack tag and leaves you with a quarter of a pack
Even at basic sell rates of 15% and just 1/2 part per tag you can turn one Nuyen into 15.
Set up drones to do it for you and you basically get a recycling center creating exponential wealth (just make sure you have good security against the runners that will come to fuck up your new business)
Oh and Teamwork is limited by your skill rating - so at 6 you'll only get +6 dice no matter how many helpers.
Also: No attack rating. You can only add one mod to any given device.
Posted by: Titan Jul 7 2017, 05:56 PM
Wow.
Some people take themselves far too seriously. 
Posted by: KCKitsune Jul 7 2017, 05:59 PM
Some people take themselves far too seriously.
If I said something insulting then I do apologize.
Posted by: binarywraith Jul 7 2017, 08:09 PM
There seems to be a severe case of miscommunication here: I said that you add a persona mod to a tag to build a persona. Why on earth should I then say you can't build a persona on it?
Also regarding to why:
Even a Five-Pack costs 200 Nuyen per pack. Assuming you know what you are doing with hardware, you can turn a 1 Nuyen Stealth tag into 3/4 of an Electronics Pack
(this is one of the many cases where CGL writers fucked up and didn't think things through, since you basically can increase the value by 15000% with a lucky roll)
Persona Mod needs two packs of Parts. So just four tags for 4 Nuyen are enough to build a hack tag and leaves you with a quarter of a pack
Even at basic sell rates of 15% and just 1/2 part per tag you can turn one Nuyen into 15.
Set up drones to do it for you and you basically get a recycling center creating exponential wealth (just make sure you have good security against the runners that will come to fuck up your new business)
Oh and Teamwork is limited by your skill rating - so at 6 you'll only get +6 dice no matter how many helpers.
Also: No attack rating. You can only add one mod to any given device.
This, like 'why don't riggers just retire and steal/chop cars for vastly more profit' or the mentor spirit karma sponge are on the 'Catalyst doesn't bother to plausibility test their rules' pile.
Posted by: Titan Jul 7 2017, 10:53 PM
Oh, no. Not at all. You have nothing to apologize for - although I do appreciate it.
There was nothing in either post to be insulted by.
I just find it... Shocking, that someone would take so much time(*) picking apart a post I made in jest(**) that they couldn't even realize you made the last point for them (*)8 minutes earlier.
I must'a triggered the righteous anger or something >>>
<<<--- Calling out my sarcasm.(**)I admit, I forgot to leave any indication that I wasn't serious. That is on me. I'll own that. But in my defense, I thought the post was outlandish enough that it wouldn't possibly be taken seriously.
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