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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Weapon Focus for Unarmed Combat

Posted by: Lobo0705 Nov 13 2017, 07:55 PM

Can you create a weapon focus out of something like Hardliner Gloves or any other similar item?

Posted by: JanessaVR Nov 13 2017, 08:20 PM

As a GM, I'd say that's fine.

EDIT: To be clear, I believe these are "weighted knuckle" gloves? In which case, you're not actually unarmed - the gloves are the weapon you're fighting with. Enchanted sword or enchanted brass knuckles - magically speaking, I don't see the difference.

Posted by: Tecumseh Nov 14 2017, 01:06 AM

They're called Hardliner Gloves in 4E and Knucks in 5E. I think the general consensus is that they're okay to turn into a weapon focus that could be used by an adept (or a magician, I suppose) with the Unarmed Combat skill. Most GMs will say yes, as they're not unbalancing nor do they contradict the logic of the gameworld.

A shock glove is a dicier proposition, fluff-wise, since they involve highly-processed, technological components that would be difficult to enchant. More GMs are going to say no to that.

Posted by: Glyph Nov 14 2017, 03:46 AM

To me, it is less the high-tech (since you can have monofilament whips as weapon foci), and more that it deals damage with electricity - it's a touch-delivered energy attack. It may use melee rules, but I don't see an enchanted set of shock emitters bypassing critter immunities like other weapon foci. I could see it in SR3, where shock gloves do damage from impact and electricity, but not for SR4 or SR5.

Posted by: Bodak Nov 14 2017, 11:14 PM

QUOTE (Tecumseh @ Nov 14 2017, 01:06 AM)

A shock glove is a dicier proposition, fluff-wise, since they involve highly-processed, technological components that would be difficult to enchant. More GMs are going to say no to that.

As Glyph says, the technological aspect shouldn't be an impediment since there's a precedent for highly processed devices being legitimate foci:

QUOTE (SR3.189)

Foci and fetishes can have any form a character can easily carry and use - any physical object can be enchanted as a focus. Some flashy street magicians use enchanted radios, pocket computers, soykaf drums, cigarette lighters and credsticks as foci.

You might as well get dikoted http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=6184 as long as you implant them after enchanting and dikoting is completed:

QUOTE (SR3.173)

The astral forms of your foci and fetishes go with you into astral space. Non-magical gear stays with your physical body. This includes cyberware and other implants.

QUOTE (M&M.47)

It is possible to enchant cyberware devices, but this must be done before the item is implanted.

taking a Talisman geas (MitS.32) to offset the Magic loss (the talisman is the focus itself).

Posted by: Tecumseh Nov 15 2017, 05:37 AM

Bodak and Glyph both make good points. I wasn't trying to say, "no, definitely not a shock glove." Bodak's citations prove that a shock glove is possible to enchant, but Glyph also has very reasonable logic that electrical damage, rather than kinetic damage, might not be completely compatible with magical enhancement.

Posted by: Kren Cooper Nov 15 2017, 07:06 AM

I would agree. I certainly wouldn't have any issue with pretty much any weapon being made into a weapon foci, as long as you can hit the target number. Got a character concept where you really have good reason to have a bullwhip weapon foci - sure. A monowhip foci? Sure - just be prepared to sink a lot more karma into making that thing enchanted, or paying a lot more cash for someone with the skills to make it for you.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 15 2017, 07:09 AM

If it is for an adept, why bother?
You can get the same result just using adept powers.

Posted by: Glyph Nov 15 2017, 07:51 AM

Weapon foci add dice to your attack roll and don't cost any power points, plus weapons such as the monofilament whip let a high-Agility, low-Strength character do decent damage.

Posted by: Kren Cooper Nov 15 2017, 10:44 AM

And I don't know if Reach works the same way in 4 and 5e, but in 3e it's a large influencer in combat - you do not want to take on a troll with a spear, if you can help it...

Posted by: Tymeaus Jalynsfein Nov 15 2017, 03:42 PM

QUOTE (Bodak @ Nov 14 2017, 04:14 PM)

You might as well get dikoted http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=6184 as long as you implant them after enchanting and dikoting is completed:
taking a Talisman geas (MitS.32) to offset the Magic loss (the talisman is the focus itself).

Did that in 2nd Edition...

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 16 2017, 08:10 PM

If you want to do it in style:
use a cyberhand/arm as the focus.

Posted by: Glyph Nov 17 2017, 03:24 AM

QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Nov 15 2017, 02:44 AM)

And I don't know if Reach works the same way in 4 and 5e, but in 3e it's a large influencer in combat - you do not want to take on a troll with a spear, if you can help it...

In SR4 it is either a bonus to attack or a penalty to the defender (attacker's choice). In SR5 it is either a bonus or a penalty to the defender. Reach still matters, but not nearly as much as it does in SR3, where it affects TN's.

Posted by: Bodak Nov 17 2017, 12:22 PM

The Attack Of Will in 3rd ed benefits from reach bonus.

QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Aug 22 2006, 06:41 PM)

In SR3, I would recomend that mundanes in danger of spirit attacks always carry a RonCo Pocket Fisherman with them. A character with 4 charisma and willpower will kill a force 4 spirit in two combat turns when hitting it with a fishing line, on average. Gotta love reach bonuses.

I seem to remember reach doesn't apply in this contest in 4th ed, but it has been years since I tried 4th so I may have misremembered.