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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Quick Question.
Posted by: CoalHeart Jun 4 2004, 02:30 PM
Ok the group's rigger has did it to me again and decided to be extra sick and sadistic. 
He's taking his car back to his workshop and trying to mount retractable spears on the front end. He's also trying to fasten a chainsaw onto a rotodrone or a VTOL just so he can have it ram into people and gut them. Same for the car, he wants it to have a few pig stickers up front so he can 'crash' into problematic pedestrians, or impale other cars to stab the occupants.
Firstly what would the TNs to install stuff like this, and secondly How would I handle damage codes, and speed, and if these weapons break. and Thirdly conceal rating and legality issues.
Posted by: BitBasher Jun 4 2004, 03:49 PM
That's kind of like sticking a bayonet on your sniper rifle. It may look cool but it makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine! 
Posted by: Smiley Jun 4 2004, 04:08 PM
Also, imagine for a second that he's successful in installing these spears and that he impales some pedestrians. They'd be ATTACHED to the car now and it's hard to make a getaway in something that conspicuous. You could shake the persuers only to pass some random LS squad car, they call in, and BOOM. You're right back where you started.
Posted by: Garland Jun 4 2004, 04:20 PM
I think a better analogy is a bayonet on a sledgehammer. If you're going to hit someone with a car, does it really matter that the car is pointy?
Posted by: BitBasher Jun 4 2004, 04:20 PM
That's a very, very good point.
Posted by: Garland Jun 4 2004, 04:23 PM
I know; I'm pretty sharp like that.
Posted by: Reaver Jun 4 2004, 04:28 PM
Something else to note. Chainsaws will go through flesh pretty well, but its a different story when it hits bone. The chain could slip or break from the sudden change. At least that's what I've heard. 
Posted by: GreatChicken Jun 4 2004, 04:53 PM
Why the front? Why not on the wheel spokes, where you can cause other wheeled vehicles to spin out of control upon a good sideswipe and yet reduce the risk of getting totaled?
Posted by: Nikoli Jun 4 2004, 04:57 PM
Till said spike rips off and impales your car or wheel. broadside mounted firearms are much better suited for this.
Posted by: BitBasher Jun 4 2004, 05:03 PM
So is a pop up microturret with an SMG.
Posted by: Nikoli Jun 4 2004, 05:10 PM
If it can aim low enough. get a high ground clearance and mount it underneath.
Posted by: GreatChicken Jun 4 2004, 05:16 PM
Meh. I'd rather not mount turrents underneath...limits them a lot. It's more worth it to get something like http://www.gettingit.com/article/69
Posted by: Arethusa Jun 4 2004, 06:32 PM
Balls to that. If you're going to do it, http://www.saracen.org/.
Posted by: Thistledown Jun 4 2004, 07:30 PM
I've also wondered about what the effect of spears and battering rams would be. One of my riggers has converted a Garbage truck into his combat wagon. All the goodies, etc. But one of the things he did was had the front-loader tines sharpened and dikoted. He also put motors on them so he can rotate them from horizontal to vertical.
Unfortunetly, I've never had a chance to use him yet, but he looks great on the pages and pages of paper.
Stabbing into a car with them makes it as easy to lift as a dumpster is, which has some fun effects, but what kind of damage would these things really do? At creeping speeds, like a garbage truck normally does, and at ramming speeds.
I don't think normal ramming rules really apply to using something specifically made like this. They're more for cars that happen to be ramming, which would be much more common.
Posted by: JaronK Jun 4 2004, 07:43 PM
Well, from the way I understand what happens when a bus hits a car, if a dump truck hit a car it really wouldn't take enough damage to scrape the paint. And I don't think the spikes themselves would do significant damage (though hitting the thing would obviously make a mark), but picking the car up after impalement... well now that would just be funny.
JaronK
Posted by: Calvin Jun 5 2004, 01:54 AM
The torque from starting a chainsaw is likely to flip over a flying drone. Imagine his first test when it goes out of control nearby.
Posted by: Phaeton Jun 5 2004, 02:19 AM
| QUOTE (GreatChicken @ Jun 4 2004, 12:16 PM) |
| Meh. I'd rather not mount turrents underneath...limits them a lot. It's more worth it to get something like http://www.gettingit.com/article/69 |
| QUOTE |
| Balls to that. If you're going to do it, do it right. |
*DROOL*
I know what MY rigger/sam wants for Christmas...
Posted by: Capt. Dave Jun 5 2004, 02:24 AM
| QUOTE (Phaeton) |
| *DROOL* I know what MY rigger/sam wants for Christmas... |
Hah. Forget that. I know what I want for Christmas.
Posted by: Phaeton Jun 5 2004, 02:27 AM
| QUOTE (Capt. Dave) | ||
Hah. Forget that. I know what I want for Christmas. |
Oh? Tell. What could possibly beat a minigun-equipped assault van with taser-and-flamethrower anti-theft system that manages to pass most inspections?
Posted by: Capt. Dave Jun 5 2004, 02:41 AM
| QUOTE (Phaeton @ Jun 4 2004, 09:27 PM) |
| Oh? Tell. What could possibly beat a minigun-equipped assault van with taser-and-flamethrower anti-theft system that manages to pass most inspections? |
No, no, you got me wrong. I'm just saying forget my samurai character, I want that for Christmas.
Edit: Plus photovoltaic paint.
Posted by: Phaeton Jun 5 2004, 03:31 AM
...Oh. 
Don't mind me. It's 11:16 here and I am BUSHED!
P.S.: Political reference not intended. 
Posted by: Voorhees Jun 5 2004, 09:18 PM
If the spear retract, it'd be pretty easy to get pedestrians off. Although, if you wanted to kill pedestrians, you could just slam into them going 60.
Posted by: Omega Skip Jun 5 2004, 09:36 PM
What kind of sick bastard would even think of something as insane as a chainsaw mounted on an aerial drone for the specific purpose of flying up to people and gutting them?!? Am I the only one here who thinks this is messed up beyond repair?
| QUOTE (Any Game Session) |
GM: Ok, RiggerP, your turn. What do you do? Player 1: I'll fly up to PedestrianXIV and try to park my ChainsawDrone in his face. GM: Uhm... [Awkward silence] Player 2: I get as far away from RiggerP as I can, delete his number from my pocket secretary, and schedule a session with my shrink as soon as possible. Player 3: Ditto! |
No. Just... No.
Posted by: Frag-o Delux Jun 5 2004, 09:39 PM
Why? Is it any worse then just walking up to someone and chainsawing them? Sometimes you have to do what you have to do and sometimes a chainsaw is all that is at hand. It is no worse then a dikoted katana or a bat.
Posted by: Omega Skip Jun 5 2004, 09:49 PM
It just seems that this player is going out of his way to provide some people with a very painful and macabre death, cruel in ways that are just uncalled for. For chirsts sake, just put a gun on a car or a drone and use that. It'd be much more efficient, and much quicker. Why on earth would anybody want to turn his car into a meatwagon other than for cheap shock and gore effects? There's nothing even remotely practical or reasonable behind it, unless he's looking to turn the next game session into a splatterfest. It's just sick, and not very original.
Impractical, inefficient, sick, sadistic. Definitely not in the same ballpark as "Sometimes you have to do what you have to do and sometimes a chainsaw is all that is at hand", since there's actually a lot of better options at hand. Guns. Vehicle mounted. With sensor enhanced gunnery.
Posted by: Frag-o Delux Jun 5 2004, 09:57 PM
Spikes and chainsaws are in a lot of fiction, some of it in SR. Guns, turrets and sensors cost lots of money. People in the barrens don't have a lot of it. True they probably won't have drones either, but cars with spikes and other implaments will be availible.
Takeing the time to mount a chainsaw to a flying drone does seem exsecive but defently no more grotesque then walking around hacking people up with a chainsaw. So which is more disturbing, flying chainsaws or walking chainsaws?
Posted by: Omega Skip Jun 5 2004, 10:06 PM
| QUOTE (Fragodeluxe) |
| So which is more disturbing, flying chainsaws or walking chainsaws? |
Is that the question at hand? I thought it was "if a character has the choice between an efficient, less gory, and an inefficient, but very gory weapon, would it be ok if he went for the latter, if only for some gratuitous gore?" Because to that I would answer No, it wouldn't be ok, unless you want to shift the emphasis on "Splatterpunk" in your game.
But to answer your question: Flying chainsaw massacre beats classic leatherface action, because it requires a lot more technical knowhow, and more dedicated work. Using a chainsaw in melee may be improvisation, and really just an ultima ratio. But using a chainsaw on a drone means he considered using a ranged weapon, and consciously decided against it and in favor of the ultra-violence option for whatever reasons.
Satisfied?
Posted by: Frag-o Delux Jun 6 2004, 12:16 AM
| QUOTE (Omega Skip) | ||
Is that the question at hand? I thought it was "if a character has the choice between an efficient, less gory, and an inefficient, but very gory weapon, would it be ok if he went for the latter, if only for some gratuitous gore?" |
I thought the question was "Am I the only one here who thinks this is messed up beyond repair?"
So far that would be a yes. I don't care if the person is useing a chainsaw in hand or on a Drone. Neither one is disturbing to me, let alone beyond repair. I live in a town were an uncle and cousin chopped the heads of off three kids under the age of 10, nothing is disturbing to me any more.
In our games it is up to the players to decide how they kill people, though sometimes the GM throws in a helping hand. So far none of us have went the Flying Chainsaw route but, we have done just as vicious and gory things in the past. Pulling a leather face has been done, so has many other horror flick clichés.
I don't know why I am antagonizing you, you can ignore me at any time, I am just bored I guess. Sorry have a good night.
Posted by: Moonstone Spider Jun 6 2004, 01:04 AM
Instead of mounting The chainsaw just give the Drone Mechanical Arms and hand it a chainsaw. Then you can swap out the chainsaw for a rifle, flamethrower, or whatever later.
Posted by: Omega Skip Jun 6 2004, 09:00 AM
Well, it's ultimately just a question of taste whether you'd tolerate this kind of thing in your game or not. I wouldn't, but you would, and neither of us would be "wrong". I guess there's nothing wrong with having a different opinion on this topic. No harm done, really.
However, that with the uncle and cousin really is a sick story.
Posted by: Frag-o Delux Jun 6 2004, 09:30 AM
There is only one subject I don't tolerate and that is screwing with kids, I mean in the NAMBLA sense. Now in certain scenerios kids have been shot or caught in a deadly situation. I just draw the line at really depraved shit involving kids. Now I never got mad enough where I would throw one of my friends out of the house, I usually can drive the game away from that pretty quick. The situation has never really come up with the players involved, I think the people I play with have the same line I do and don't cross it. We have had two runs where our characters have busted such situations. Like Mob run freak shows and both times it was just something we stumbled on in the course of leg work. The GM wanted us to go on a "wet works" job. None of us are "professional" hit men, so we declined. The GM spent a lot of time on the run, so he needed something to make us hate the mark enough to take the job. Another was a Tamanous fetus farm, the sick f*ck running the show decided start them young and get as many years out of them as possible. I enjoyed wasteing those people a lot. One even involved crude instruments of torture.
Other then that I really don't mind the other sick and depraved stuff, the world of SR to us is pretty dark and disgusteing and it takes a lot to make us sick. One of the guys we use to play with collects "snuff" films, that is some sick shit.
But like you said everyone has their own line they will not cross. All my characters have certain lines they won't cross.
Posted by: Entropy Kid Jun 6 2004, 10:15 AM
Unless going for some kind of concept, it'd probably work a lot better to mount a big curved blade on the drone. Chainsaws are painfully loud (which might not be an issue, but something to remember) and it would need a power supply. I've never been around an electric, so I can't comment on the difference.
Someone already mentioned the chainsaw making the drone unstable, but if they can fire machine guns, they can probably handle a chainsaw engine. Although, once the chainsaw comes in contact with something it could lose some stability.
There's also the obvious issue of mess. The chainsaw would need to be built so none of the chunks and fluid that gets sprayed around interferes with its operation.
When using the drone to cut people, it'll be more vulnerable. The armor will help a lot, but I imagine it'll get hit a lot too.
I don't see how this is any more messed up than summoning an entity from another plane to destroy a person's mind and take their body. Setting someone on fire isn't very friendly either, but no one seems to take special notice when fireball is cast.
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