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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Repeater Crossbows and Silver Bullets

Posted by: FXcalibur Jun 5 2004, 02:04 PM

The CC description for the repeater says it fires from a 5-shot magazine. I take it that the repeater is a SS mode weapon, ammo cap of 5©? So I buy bolt clips like I buy firearm clips?

Are there any automatic crossbows, like the one Van Hellsing uses with an insane amount of ammunition?

I'm looking to buy bullets of various material. One of them being silver. Does any book cover this?

Posted by: Siege Jun 5 2004, 02:06 PM

As much as I enjoy Kate Beckinsale....

That being said, no -- insofar as I am aware, nobody has seen the need to create the endless automatic crossbow.

As for silver bullets...you'd probably have better luck going with silver buckshot, as pure silver is not a particularly good substance for withstanding the pressures of being fired as a projectile.

Ray would, of course, have a more informed opinion on the idea.

-Siege

Posted by: Zephania Jun 5 2004, 03:45 PM

Why not have an armourer contact make a few custom magazines for you cross bow?

Posted by: Nath Jun 5 2004, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (Siege)

That being said, no -- insofar as I am aware, nobody has seen the need to create the endless automatic crossbow.

A crossbow, maybe not, but a http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/RepCatapult.htm, the ancient greeks did it.

Posted by: Siege Jun 5 2004, 04:59 PM

Yes, but it wasn't a nigh-endless stream of bolts. And c'mon -- if it's gas operated, do you really need the string?

-Siege

Posted by: mcb Jun 5 2004, 11:50 PM

Silver would make pretty good bullets if you could afford to shoot them. Its nearly as dense at lead (Pb=11.4g/cm^3 Ag=10.5g/cm^3) Its denser than copper which is often use as the only metal in some bullets. Silver is about the same harness as lead. In general Silver should be very servicable as a bullet material, if you can afford to make'em

mcb

Posted by: Cray74 Jun 6 2004, 12:46 AM

QUOTE (Siege)

Yes, but it wasn't a nigh-endless stream of bolts. And c'mon -- if it's gas operated, do you really need the string?

-Siege

Depends on the gas delivery pressure. A relatively low pressure system could be used to wind up the bow over a period of time, then release the bolt faster than a single puff of gas.

Of course, those bolts fired pretty rapidly in Van Helsing...

Anyway, my pet idea for crossbows has been an electric rewinder. Gear down a high speed electric motor for a lot of torque and crank back a bow - or coil spring - more powerful than any metahuman muscles can move.

That or just make a low velocity coil gun for tossing bolts at, like, 100m/s or so. But that's no longer a crossbow.

Posted by: eidolon Jun 6 2004, 02:46 PM

Actually, my humble conjecture on the Van Helsing crossbow's gas use, is this:

The string was still the means of propulsion for the bolts.

The gas comes into play as such:
1: Manually cock the string once.
2: Pull the trigger. (releases bolt)
3: Burst of gas to
a: reset the string, using a mechanical tab
b: rotate the cylinder, loading the next bolt

Now, it would use a sort of ramp system to force the next bolt up through a slot in the body, to the ready position. The string would be cocked via a small prong that travels with the string on every shot (to the sides of the bolt). Very quick sliding mechanism. When it reached the forward position, it hits a valve, causing a burst of gas that resets the string, and at the same time rotates the cylinder.

Of course, I can tell you from my paintball experience, that with the amounts of shots he fired vs. the amount of air capacity that tank looked to have, that one one hellaciously efficient pneumatic system.

I hope that gets my idea across. I'm pretty tired. Bed is calling.

Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Jun 6 2004, 06:59 PM

Quicken an animate spell on the crossbow so that it rearms itself when not firing. Throw in the large stash of bolts with a simple loading mechanism (so the spell can load them), and you have a crossbow that is fully SA without need for manual loading.

When you toss in an increased quickness spell on the animated crossbow, then it might be able to do BF.

Posted by: k1tsune Jun 8 2004, 07:49 AM

Oh god. One of my players keeps asking about automatic crossbows. "But all these games have them! And so does this movie!" I keep telling him that if he can draw me a diagram of how it would work, he can have it.
This is also the guy playing the Night One ninja-wannabe. He's fairly new to pen & paper rpg's, but showing dangerous tendencies towards munchiness.

-Alex

Posted by: BitBasher Jun 8 2004, 05:02 PM

QUOTE

Can that be done? that would require the spell to know when it needs to be loaded and when it does not, which is beyond the scope of a simple spell.

Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Jun 8 2004, 06:36 PM

An animated table can walk around and be helpful, so why couldn't an animated crossbow rearm itself? The condition of "when there is no bolt in the groove" is most likely easier than anything you would want most other animated objects to do.

It's interesting that the strength of an animated object is not limited to force, only successes on the casting. This results in the enchanter needing at least as many successes when casting as the minimum strength to use the crossbow, but can still be done at force 1.

The spell describes "only moving the whole object," so you may need to design a higher drain version that allows the mechanical components to move while the actual object doesn't. Although, making the new version a touch range only spell will probably counter whatever increase is needed for component control.

Posted by: Dax Jun 8 2004, 08:15 PM

I actually have a write up for a Van Helsing style repeater crossbow someplace on my hard drive. One member of my group fell in love with the firearm customization rules in the Cannon Companion, and when a movie comes out he usually re-makes the main hero's weapon under the CC rules just for the hell of it.

I also got Hellboy's Uber Pistol somewhere as well. Once I find em I'll post em up here so everyone can take a look see.

Posted by: mcb Jun 8 2004, 08:41 PM

Why would you want a fully automatic crossbow? Unless you achive FA with magic than any mechanisms you use to drive a FA crossbow will be as loud as a suppressed SMG. The weapon and ammo would be heavier and bulkier and have a shorter range. Other than the cool factor I can't think of a good reason.

mcb

Posted by: Siege Jun 8 2004, 09:09 PM

QUOTE (mcb)

cool factor I can't think of a good reason.

mcb

A specialty weapon for pincushioning something that standard bullets won't scratch?

If said target is allergic to something, it would be easier to deliver the allergin by means of a bolt than, say, a bullet.

I dunno -- I'm reaching.

-Siege

Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Jun 8 2004, 09:24 PM

Because projectile weapons is strength linked and SMGs are quickness linked.

Not a reason why everyone would want it, but a reason why some might.

Posted by: BitBasher Jun 8 2004, 09:54 PM

QUOTE

This is kind of off topic to the thread, but I disagree. An animated table can not walk around and "be helpful" Spells are explicitly not intellignet, the spell cannot know what "be helpful" is. it can make a table move around the room as the table is directed by the mage. If the spell is quickened, it can make the table move in circles forever, but the table is still nto intelligent, its still just a spell moving a table around. A auickened spell has absolutely no external input whatsoever. A quickened spell has no way to know if a bolt is in the groove, unless it is linked to a detection spell, then it would be anchoring, not quickening, and would work once until recast. in fact, that's specifically what anchoring was for IIRC.

Posted by: Raygun Jun 8 2004, 09:58 PM

QUOTE (mcb)

http://www.trueshotbullets.com/

Posted by: Siege Jun 8 2004, 10:37 PM

QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)

Because projectile weapons is strength linked and SMGs are quickness linked.

Not a reason why everyone would want it, but a reason why some might.

Would a crossbow and by extension a repeating crossbow really be strength-based? After all, it's not the same muscle power behind a bow.

-Siege

Posted by: eidolon Jun 9 2004, 12:58 AM

QUOTE (mcb)

cool factor I can't think of a good reason.

mcb

Maybe it fits the character concept. Maybe something in the character's background makes it the only weapon they can use without feeling ill, or going against their beliefs. Numbers aren't the only reason to use things.

And it's pretty cool.

As far as the noise factor, the loudest part of its operation would be the *twang* when it released the string to fire a bolt. With the right exhaust system for the gas, and precision machining and good oil, the actual operation would be nearly silent. (I'm basing my reasoning off of the fact that I shoot an autococker [paintball gun] that operates on a principle nearly exactly the same as how I described the operation of this theoretical crossbow, and it's virtually silent unless you're within two feet of me.)

Posted by: mcb Jun 9 2004, 02:52 AM

Yah but your paintball gun is not trying to cock a 150lb or greater draw weight bow. The load mechanism and feed mechanism in a pant ball gun don’t require much pressure or gas volume to function. The volume of air and or pressure would be quite a bit larger to do all the work require to cock a crossbow. You could certainly put a good exhaust muffler on the pneumatic actuator doing the work but remember the more muffle the actuators exhaust gas you either have to trade efficiency or speed. Silencing a mechanism doing that much work will cost you something.

The twang of a modern crossbow in normal function is not all that quiet. I have heard my father shoot his crossbow while in his deer stand when I was standing over 300 yds away. And there was about 60 yards of mature pine between us.

mcb

Posted by: danbot37 Jun 9 2004, 03:14 AM

the best use of a repeater crossbow, I think, would be for a Gatsu based character from the berserk manga(or dreamcast game if you are familiar with that). He could kick Van Helsing's ass anyway. He already has a cyber arm (with built in assault cannon and repeater crossbow), That sword has to be dikoted (what would be the concealibilty rating? j/k). Gotta be a weapon focus too, it tears up the demons. He even has a quickened tattoo.

Posted by: Dax Jun 9 2004, 05:38 AM

Here's the guns my friend came up with. They are interesting to say the least. So feel free to look and make your opinions. And I will point out, to make the guns fit what's in the movies a liberty or two was taken.

"The Samaritan" Frame: What the FRAG?!!! (Heavy Pistol/Shotgun/Assault Cannon)
Power: 19
Damage Level: D
Mode: SA
Conceal: 5
Weight: 4.5
Ammo Cap: 6
Ammo Load: cyl.
Mounts: Top
FCU: 0
DPV: 1396
Designs: Ammo Loading (Cylinder), Heavy Barrel, Improved Ammo Capacity 2, Specialized Ammo (1000¥ per 10), Recoil Compensation 1, Increased Power 1 Mods: Personalized Grip, Integral Gas Vent IV Recoil Comp: 7
Cost: 6,980¥ Additional Mark-up: 3
Final Cost: 20,940¥

Van Helsing Crossbow
Autocrossbow Frame: Medium Crossbow
Power: 6
Damage Level: M
Mode: SA/FA
Conceal: 1
Weight: 4.5
Ammo Cap: 50
Ammo Load: c
Strength Minimum: 4
Mounts: None
FCU: 0
DPV: 312
Designs: Ammo Loading (clip), Firing Mode (Semiauto, Full Auto), Special Power Source (CO2) Mods: Extended Clip (+46)
Cost: 1560¥ Street Index: 2 Availability: 9/54 hrs

Posted by: Hunter Jun 9 2004, 08:25 AM

Anyone got game stats for silver bullets? I'm thinking rather hard about a distinctive style flaw.

Posted by: Arethusa Jun 9 2004, 08:43 AM

The same issue came up in another thread a month or so back. I believe the stats I came up with were -10% range, +4/+2 weeks availability, 60-100¥ per box of 10 (depends on your GM's taste; a lot of that is more market rarity than materials cost). And, yes, it is http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=253785.

[edit]

Here's http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=4008.