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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Question About Spirit Energy

Posted by: Mitchell Jun 10 2004, 06:17 PM

I've got a question about those pesky free spirits and their Spirit Energy. There are quite a few Awakened PCs in the group I GM for, so I've got a pretty good handle on the magic rules. Still, I always seem to get confused when it comes to free spirits. Anyway, my question has to do with free spirits and Immunity to Normal Weapons.

Now, according to MitS, Spirit Energy is added to all of a materialized free spirit's physical attributes. In addition, it adds into all Force-based powers. So how does this apply to Immunity to Normal Weapons? Does this mean that a free spirit has hardened armor of 2 x (F + SE), which seems extremely powerful? Or is Immunity to Normal Weapons not really a "power," and it therefore only provides the standard 2 x F?

Any ideas or clarification would be appreciated...

Posted by: Tyron Jun 10 2004, 07:21 PM

According the the power Immunity to Normal Weapons(As applied to Materilization or otherwise), the number is based upon the creature's essence, not it's Force.

And according to MiTS pg 114, "When a free spirit uses a spirit power that is based on Force, add the spirit's current Spirit Energy to its Force."

So I would say, based on the fact that Immunity to Normal Weapons is based on essence and not force, that Spirit Energy does not come into play when determing the strength of the Immunity to Normal Weapons.

Posted by: TinkerGnome Jun 10 2004, 07:48 PM

I have no objection to that reading at all.

Posted by: Mitchell Jun 10 2004, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (Tyron)

According the the power Immunity to Normal Weapons(As applied to Materilization or otherwise), the number is based upon the creature's essence, not it's Force.

OK, I see what you're saying. However, it might not be as straightforward as that. I don't have my books with me, so I hope I'm on the right track here. Anyway, in MitS, I'm pretty sure the example that they use for Spirit Energy has to do with the Innate Spell power. Basically, a Force 4 free spirit with 3 points of Spirit Energy would cast a Force 7 spell. However, in Critters I'm pretty sure the description of the Innate Spell power mentions Essence, not Force. In fact, everything in Critters talks about Essence. Again, I don't have my books so I might be off base here...

Posted by: TinkerGnome Jun 10 2004, 08:15 PM

Hmm... indeed, you're right. Both SR3 and Critters talks about Essence, rather than force with reguard to innate spell. Most likely, the example is just wrong.

Posted by: Tyron Jun 10 2004, 08:25 PM

No you're right. Really, I'm basing it off the fact that the example used force instead of essence. In actuality, Force and Essence are actually the same(Because the Force of the Spirit and Essence equal one another) so for simplicity's sake, the writers probably just used essence throughout Critters because more creatures had Essence than Force. I can plausibly see the call being made either way.

To make things more confusing, take a look at the Free Spirit powers of Animal and Human form. It says they gains the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons "based on it's Spirit Energy rather than it's Essence." (MiTS, pg 117). Do the rules work the same for standard Materilizations of Free Spirits, or is that an effect that is exclusive to those powers?

What I do when things start to get this confusing is just err on the side that either a)Makes sense and/or b)Maintains game balance, and just run with it. Adding Spirit Energy into the equation of Immunity to Normal Weapons is a bit overpowered and I would also tack that on to my previous explanation of why Spirit Energy doesn't play a factor into essence.

Posted by: Jason Farlander Jun 10 2004, 08:36 PM

It seems to me that the terms "force" and "essence" mean the same thing in regards to spirits. Free Spirits are supposed to be powerful. I have no problems adding in Spirit Energy towards I:NA calculation - you shouldnt be trying to battle a free spirit without magical support in the first place.

Posted by: Mitchell Jun 10 2004, 08:49 PM

QUOTE (Tyron)

What I do when things start to get this confusing is just err on the side that either a)Makes sense and/or b)Maintains game balance, and just run with it. Adding Spirit Energy into the equation of Immunity to Normal Weapons is a bit overpowered and I would also tack that on to my previous explanation of why Spirit Energy doesn't play a factor into essence.

That's definitely an explanation I can live with (and so will my players).

Actually, you might have answered my question when you pointed out the Animal and Human form powers. When it says that "Immunity to Normal Weapons is based on it's Spirit Energy rather than it's Essence," this basically implies that without this power, a free spirit has Immunity to Normal Weapons based only on its Essence (or Force as the case may be). Granted, the logic is a bit thin, but that's the way some things are in SR...