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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Headware, not in the head
Posted by: Ed_209a Aug 28 2003, 05:17 PM
Why put a radio in your head for .75 (approx) essence, when you can get an internal router dirt cheap and just encapsulate the device and implant it in some internal space in the torso, like pacemakers are today.
Now, obviously you will probably be limited to something about the size of a pack of cigarettes, but shouldn't that be possible.
Posted by: Buzzed Aug 28 2003, 05:34 PM
You can do that for .1 essence if you put it into a cyberlimb.
I perfer getting an alpha datajack and connecting a radio through an external tranducer. So I can't communicate via radio if they take it away, big deal.
[UPDATE] I now perfer to implant a dni adapted MicroTranciever into an Alpha body compartment and add an Alpha dni connection and Alpha transducer for a total of .32 essence. Only double the essence of the above setup, but all internal now. 
- read below
[CORRECTION] I forgot to link the transducer to the dni connection, so I will scrap the dni and replace it with an alpha datajack instead (doubles as a router) for an additional .08 essence (.4 total).
Posted by: Warmaster Lah Aug 28 2003, 06:14 PM
You shouldn't really need a cyberlimb to implant it.
I have a wireless handsfree unit for my cell phone that uses bluetooth technology. You'd think I was talking to myself. I'd think you'd only need the small device in your head and the addon to the device to use it. I remember reading somewhere that you would have to tie a datajack into an external device to use it, is that true? Seems uneccesary.
Posted by: Buzzed Aug 28 2003, 06:18 PM
A datajack is needed for external devices if you want to control them with your brain.
Without a datajack, you could use a headset or do the walkie talkie/Dick Tracy thing.
Posted by: Laughlyn Aug 28 2003, 09:13 PM
You want to control the radio with your brain. Otherwise you're seriously limited on what you can say for a free action.
By the rules you can put just about anything inside your body for free (given cyberware that has an ess cost excluded). It's only when you remove or replace something that you need to worry. I've got no real problem with people installing some headware in the rest of their body. I do it with headware memory already. Provided it's not bulky you can install it lots of places with room to spare. Figure that it's 5cm x 3cm x 1.5cm and you put it along the inside of your ribs. It's probably only noticeable under medical exam/cyber scan.
Posted by: Spookymonster Aug 28 2003, 09:29 PM
| QUOTE (Warmaster Lah) |
| You shouldn't really need a cyberlimb to implant it. I have a wireless handsfree unit for my cell phone that uses bluetooth technology. You'd think I was talking to myself. I'd think you'd only need the small device in your head and the addon to the device to use it. I remember reading somewhere that you would have to tie a datajack into an external device to use it, is that true? Seems uneccesary. |
Bluetooth specifically (and wireless communication in general) is insecure, prone to interference, and has very low bandwith. Sure, your external phone may have ECM out the wazoo, but why bother when any hacker worth their 'jack is going to have a BT scanner locked into your headware? Forget about decking or running skillsofts over BT - there's barely enough bandwith available for low quality phone conversations.
If you don't like the idea of having the gear in your head, fine - just 'move' it somewhere else in your meat body. However, this shouldn't affect the Essence cost (a fact supported by canon).
Posted by: Laughlyn Aug 28 2003, 09:39 PM
Canon is typically speaking in forked rules. If you have a transducer and a datajack you can uses an external cell phone. You're not saying that you should have to pay the extra ess for datajack and transducer because you can use it with a phone. Why is the extra ess needed then to have the cell phone in another location of your body where it's not taking up critical space? Earrings and other piercings don’t' take up ess, yet they're inside the body. By the cannon rules a IUD would cost ess.
Posted by: Buzzed Aug 28 2003, 10:07 PM
| QUOTE (Laughlyn @ Aug 28 2003, 05:39 PM) |
| Earrings and other piercings don’t' take up ess, yet they're inside the body. |
Implants in the skin are much different than implants in the brain.
Posted by: Buzzed Aug 28 2003, 10:25 PM
| QUOTE (Laughlyn @ Aug 28 2003, 05:13 PM) |
| By the rules you can put just about anything inside your body for free (given cyberware that has an ess cost excluded). It's only when you remove or replace something that you need to worry. I've got no real problem with people installing some headware in the rest of their body. I do it with headware memory already. Provided it's not bulky you can install it lots of places with room to spare. Figure that it's 5cm x 3cm x 1.5cm and you put it along the inside of your ribs. It's probably only noticeable under medical exam/cyber scan. |
M&M pg. 27
Body Compartment - Essence .2
"These compartments are quite small; as a general rule, only items of concealability of 9 or higher may be stored in such compartments, with a limit of one per compartment. Body compartments cannot be detected by a visual scan,..."
M&M pg. 10
"Likewise, many devices classified as headware (for example, a tactical computer), when installed in a cyberlimb, are not automatically connected to the brain or nervous system. Such items require a direct neural interface (DNI),..."
So basically, your going to take up at least .2 essence in meat. No restrictions on where headware goes, within reason when implanted in meat, but when implanted in a cyberlimb it will cost at least .1 essence.
Posted by: Buzzed Aug 28 2003, 10:36 PM
The SR3 book states the MicroTransciever has a concealability of 10. So make it DNI adapted and place that puppy in a .2 essence body compartment, and an extra .1 essence for the dni connection. Problem solved, a .75 essence radio implanted for .3 essence. Oh yeah, dont forget to implant the tranducer too. 
Thankyou for making this thread, now I will use this as my communications setup.
Posted by: Kanada Ten Aug 28 2003, 11:42 PM
Curious: Buzzed, what is the Flux and Rating on a MicroTransciever vs that of the normal cyberware radio?
Posted by: Buzzed Aug 29 2003, 12:24 AM
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten @ Aug 28 2003, 07:42 PM) |
| Curious: Buzzed, what is the Flux and Rating on a MicroTransciever vs that of the normal cyberware radio? |
It's only limited to how much you are willing to spend. Flux is treated the same for both types, rating = flux. The only noticable difference is that the headware radio costs more.
Posted by: Warmaster Lah Aug 29 2003, 01:42 AM
| QUOTE (Spookymonster) | ||
Bluetooth specifically (and wireless communication in general) is insecure, prone to interference, and has very low bandwith. Sure, your external phone may have ECM out the wazoo, but why bother when any hacker worth their 'jack is going to have a BT scanner locked into your headware? Forget about decking or running skillsofts over BT - there's barely enough bandwith available for low quality phone conversations. If you don't like the idea of having the gear in your head, fine - just 'move' it somewhere else in your meat body. However, this shouldn't affect the Essence cost (a fact supported by canon). I wasn't really looking for any rule advantage or anything. Just wondering about what happened with the technology. Though I can see now why it would not be feasible if it is vulnerable to outside influence. Still I wonder if they could fix the low bandwith problem. |
I wasn't really looking for any rule advantage or anything. Just wondering about what happened with the technology. Though I can see now why it would not be feasible if it is vulnerable to outside influence. Still I wonder if they could fix the low bandwith problem.
Posted by: The White Dwarf Aug 29 2003, 09:47 AM
About the flux..
Headware has flux = 0 regardless of rating, unless boosted by a linked signal booster (either internal or external).
By using the body compartment, you use a real item, which has flux = rating.
Overall, you save essence, and have more flux, but might lose the radio if someone takes it out of the compartment. I think it also costs more, but thats just an off the top of my head guess.
So, datajack (free routers), transducer, body compartment, dni link = .6 essence
Datajack, transducer, headware radio = 1.05 essence
After alphaware (very rarely does anyone not, for both essence and cyberware detectability, in our games) the difference drops to .36. Good essence savings at the expense of more nuyen, and fairly balanced tradeoffs with the increase in flux offsetting the fact that the radio can still be removed.
Posted by: Cray74 Aug 29 2003, 10:30 AM
| QUOTE (Spookymonster) |
| Bluetooth specifically (and wireless communication in general) is insecure, prone to interference, and has very low bandwith. Sure, your external phone may have ECM out the wazoo, but why bother when any hacker worth their 'jack is going to have a BT scanner locked into your headware? Forget about decking or running skillsofts over BT - there's barely enough bandwith available for low quality phone conversations. |
Bluetooth in particular wouldn't be used in SR. There are rules for wireless bandwidth in Matrix, and they give very wide bandwidth - 100Mp/second for cell links, IIRC. That means you can put about 100 video channels (at 1Mp/second each, IIRC) into a single cyberdeck's cellular link. That's just a few orders of magnitude higher than low quality phone conversations.
Further, if you get a rating 6 radio (or cell) with rating 6 encryption, you'll keep the majority of casual listeners out of your conversation, not to mention be free of environmental interference (which SR rules really don't seem to cover). The people interested in hacking past that are too expensive to bother shutting out for casual, legal conversations...which should be the majority of your wireless conversations, anyway. There's more to a character's life than running.
Posted by: Spookymonster Aug 29 2003, 11:32 AM
| QUOTE (Cray74) | ||
... Further, if you get a rating 6 radio (or cell) with rating 6 encryption, you'll keep the majority of casual listeners out of your conversation, not to mention be free of environmental interference (which SR rules really don't seem to cover). The people interested in hacking past that are too expensive to bother shutting out for casual, legal conversations...which should be the majority of your wireless conversations, anyway. There's more to a character's life than running. |
Understood. However, I was responding to Warmaster's question regarding why you would need a wired connection between an external radio/cellphone and a datajack. The effective security rating of a wireless datajack/external cellphone combo would only be as high as the lowest-rated component in the connection. E.g., if the cell had encryption-6, but the wireless datajack had none at all, eavesdropping would still be a piece of cake. The wireless datajack would be the Achille's heel of any encrypted communication.
Posted by: Laughlyn Aug 29 2003, 02:04 PM
| QUOTE (Laughlyn @ Aug 28 2003, 05:39 PM) |
| Earrings and other piercings don’t' take up ess, yet they're inside the body. |
Implants in the skin are much different than implants in the brain.
That's exactly why you move the implant out of the brain when possible.
You've also quoted what it takes to put a pocket inside the body. That doesn't include something that be implanted into the body on a almost permanent basis. That pocket will be there for any given object that will fit. It's also got a way to get into the pocket. So you can use it to hold your credstick, wedding rings, cell phone, etc. That with a DNI or datajack and you're set. I'm thinking that anything surgically implanted isn't going to take ess or not as much as .2ess. Considering that there's nothing that needs to be removed.
Whitedwarf
You don't need the DNI at all. With the cell phone connected to a datajack and a transducer, you're already set up with what you need.
Posted by: Ed_209a Aug 29 2003, 03:57 PM
MM established that Essence loss is brain damage as more stuff is plugged in, right?
So what is plugged in with a body compartment? Can you make it open itself at will?
Posted by: Buzzed Aug 29 2003, 04:11 PM
| QUOTE (The White Dwarf @ Aug 29 2003, 05:47 AM) |
| About the flux.. Headware has flux = 0 regardless of rating, unless boosted by a linked signal booster (either internal or external). |
An item with a flux of 0 has a 250 meter range. That would make the headware radio at a range of 250 meters, regardless of rating. That would make a rating 2 or higher radio almost useless.
SR3 pg. 297 under HEADWARE Communications:
"Range and Flux of communications gear is determined by its rating."
Posted by: Ed_209a Aug 29 2003, 04:55 PM
I wouldn't want a transmitter with more than 2-3km inside by body anyway.
A ultra-low power mode to transmit to a booster you wear would be simple.
Posted by: The White Dwarf Aug 30 2003, 09:14 AM
You need the DNI because the radio as such is not set up to be controlled cybernetically. As per the rules in the cyberlimbs and body compartment sections of M&M you must both modify the item to be DNI compatable and install a DNI link. I can provide quotes if you cant find it on your own.
About the flux, if you follow the table that quote refers to you will see that on page 136 in SR3 it lists "cyberware = 0" on the flux rating table. As such headware communications is useful for two things: tacticl team communications over short distances, and for long distance communication in urban areas where it can pick up the landline network (see matrix or rigger about that, think its in matrix under the cellphone or radio cyberdeck links).
Posted by: Buzzed Aug 30 2003, 03:27 PM
| QUOTE (The White Dwarf @ Aug 30 2003, 05:14 AM) |
| About the flux, if you follow the table that quote refers to you will see that on page 136 in SR3 it lists "cyberware = 0" on the flux rating table. As such headware communications is useful for two things: tacticl team communications over short distances, and for long distance communication in urban areas where it can pick up the landline network (see matrix or rigger about that, think its in matrix under the cellphone or radio cyberdeck links). |
Then explain how a cyberarm signal booster can create flux if that table states all cyberware has a flux of 0?
The table is a tool for giving a flux rating to a device where flux has not already been determined. The headware radio indeed comes with a flux = to it's rating.
Why would they make a rule stating headware communications has flux, and then turn around and say all cyberware has a flux rating of 0? You are ignoring the part on the table that states that a radio flux = rating. Also you are ignoring the section on page 297 that explains headware communications have a flux = it's rating.
Obviously, the table is being used incorrectly.
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