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Posted by: Joker9125 Sep 21 2004, 06:22 AM

What is the best drain resistance template for a human without being albino or a metahuman.

The only thing I can think of is a trauma dampener pain resistance and spell foci.

Posted by: Fygg Nuuton Sep 21 2004, 06:40 AM

yea, not much else you can do

perhaps really good skill?

Posted by: Joker9125 Sep 21 2004, 06:49 AM

What does specializing in a spell category do?

Also can I be an elementalist sorcer adept and gain the +2D6 to spells

Posted by: Glyph Sep 21 2004, 07:03 AM

With the Bonus Attribute Edge, you can start out with a Willpower of 7. Then, you can use spell or power foci (don't underestimate this - you can really load up on these), and Totem modifiers (indirectly - +2 dice for a spell means you can withold 2 more dice to resist Drain if you want to). A trauma dampener gives you an initial hit to your Magic rating, but negates Light stun damage. The Pain Resistance Edge only negates penalties, not the Drain itself, but is still very useful. Likewise, the Focused Concentration Edge makes it easier, TN-wise, to resist Drain when casting spells while sustaining others. You can take the Fetish or Exclusive modifiers to a spell to lower the Drain on it.

Specializing in a spell category gives you the bonus to spellcasting, spell defense, and dispelling involving that spell category. Seems a natural fit for an elementalist, but remember it will mean you have a lower effective skill when defending against or trying to dispell other spell categories. A fire elementalist with Sorcery/Combat Spells: 5/7 would only have a skill of 5 when attempting to dispel an Armor spell, for instance. But the specialist is still usually worth it for an elementalist, though.

Shadowrun has the hermetic equivalent of shamanists (elementalists), and also has the equivalent of full mages with Totem modifiers (elemental mages). They don't officially have elemental conjurers or sorcerers, but I would allow them - they make perfect sense to me.

Posted by: blinkin Sep 21 2004, 12:47 PM

Where does it say that you can with hold dice from a Sorcery test to reduce drain. I thought that was only for Conjuring.

(must go read SR3 magic section again)

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Sep 21 2004, 12:59 PM

I'm pretty sure he meant you don't need to use as much Spell Pool in the Sorcery test because of those extra dice, so you can use more SP in the Drain Resistance test.

Posted by: Necro Tech Sep 21 2004, 06:57 PM

Don't forget to put increase attribute Will in a sustaining focus.

Posted by: Brazila Sep 21 2004, 07:06 PM

Don't forget some strong centering. The most wonderful and overlooked MM IMO.

Posted by: Joker9125 Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM

Hey Brazila I know how it must look when every post I make is about pimping something out but I assure you I am not a metagamer

How much magic loss would a trauma dampener synaptic accelerator 2 and boosted reflexes give me? Im thinking 2 but I havent read up ont he errata

Posted by: Brazila Sep 21 2004, 08:32 PM

You ask a question like that and say your not a metagamer in the same posting????? Seriously if you game with Tommy Wang, your cool in my book. No books with me, but I believe the cyber ess cost comes off of magic directly, then the bio reduces effective magic seperatly, so the loss would be high for effective, but low for actual.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 21 2004, 08:44 PM

Nope, Essence loss is added to 1/2 Bio Index to determine total lost magic.

~J

Posted by: Joker9125 Sep 21 2004, 09:03 PM

Hehe. Never ran with tommy wang but I have been on a few runs with Jason Terell

So he would have a magic rating of 5?

Im making a character that sepcalizes in control manipulation spells and the drain on those is absolutely unreal.

Posted by: Brazila Sep 21 2004, 09:08 PM

Looks like that errata would have hit me between the eyes because I was so unaware of it. This is what I found hope it helps.

In game terms, bioware reduces an Awakened character's Magic rating in a way similar to Essence loss. Magic is reduced by the character's Bio Index divided by 2 (round down).

The effects of Bio Index and Essence reduction on Magic are cumulative, so the two should be combined before determining how Magic is affected. Magic has a starting value equal to the character's Essence minus (Bio Index ÷ 2), rounded down. So a starting magician with Essence 5.8 and a Bio Index of 1 begins with a Magic rating of 5 (5.8 - 0.5 = 5.3, rounded down to 5). Further increases in Bio Index (or reductions in Essence) may also affect the Magic rating whenever the total falls beneath a whole number. If the same magician later acquires more bioware, raising his Bio Index to 2, he will lose an additional point of Magic (5.8 - 1 = 4.8, rounded to 4).

Magic reduction from bioware functions like other forms of Magic loss-adepts lose some of their powers, for example. Geasa can be used to counteract magic loss from bioware and a character can still initiate to raise his Magic rating.

Posted by: Joker9125 Sep 21 2004, 09:45 PM

Where are the rules for reducing drain with fetishes. Blah havent played over the summer and im a little rusty

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 21 2004, 10:02 PM

If you fetish-link a spell, effective force is dropped one level for determining drain. It's in the Learning Spells section, wherever that is.

~J, currently bookless

Posted by: Brazila Sep 22 2004, 04:29 AM

Just to jump back to the old subject for a second...I knew I saw something else somewhere. I found this on the official SR3 page under FAQ

Does a mage with a minimum amount of cyberware and bioware (such as a datajack, 0.2 Essence, and a synthacardium, 0.2 Bio Index) effectively lose 2 Magic points?
Yes. The Essence loss reduces the mage's Magic rating by 1, and the Bio Index virtually reduces Magic by another 1.
As an optional rule, gamemasters may allow Magic rating to be reduced in partial increments for record-keeping purposes, and simply rounded down when used as a statistic in game play. Using the example above, the mage's datajack would reduce his Magic rating from 6 to 5.8, and the virtual reduction from the bioware would effectively make the Magic rating 5.6. For all game purposes, the mage would have an effective Magic rating of 5.

So it seems to disagree with the errata, though I am guessing that the errata is newer and is correct.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 22 2004, 04:37 AM

In general, the best way to deal with the FAQ is to print a copy, burn it, mix the ashes with salt and bury them beneath a mountain.

~J

Posted by: mrobviousjosh Sep 22 2004, 11:20 PM

Posted by: tisoz Nov 2 2004, 05:45 AM

Be a Crab Shaman and get +1 die for drain (and ALL damage) resistance tests.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 2 2004, 05:52 AM

Get a Level 3 Contact (Fox [Cat] Shapeshifter Adept with Aid Spell 6 and 3 power points of other powers as you see fit) and save up for both an Ally Spirit and a Power Focus.

Brazilia: While I have as much respect for the FAQ as Kagetenshi does, what you quoted existed before the errata (which I wish RPG companies would quit calling it -- "rules changes" is more appropriate than "errors made in printing") was released. They just haven't removed it yet.

Posted by: ES_Riddle Nov 2 2004, 06:02 PM

Posted by: Fortune Nov 2 2004, 07:40 PM

Go for Boosted [1] in that combo. Level 3 isn't worth it for the measly gain it gives, but level 1 is nice. Grab more Bioware, like a Superthyroid Gland or Enhanced Articulation for a couple more points of Reaction (and other goodies) for a cheaper Magic hit.

Posted by: elbows Nov 4 2004, 06:03 PM

Pain Editors work pretty well -- you still take the drain, but not the penalties. And it gives you +1 Willpower when it's turned on.

Posted by: Moonstone Spider Nov 4 2004, 06:19 PM

Hmm, I'm probably missing a few things here but let's play:

Human starts with (exceptional attribute) 7 Willpower.
Best totem I know of has 3 dice bonuses.
Assume the human puts all but 1 sorcery die (+5) reserved for drain.
6 Magic Pool dice.

Now we've got 21 dice.

Human is allowed to initiate at chargen at takes centering plus 6 centering skill. Average 3 successes.
Human bonds a force 6 power foci. +6 die.
Human bonds a force 6 Centering die. +3 more average.
Human uses a force 6 disposable foci.
Human bonds a force 6 specific spell and force 6 catagory foci.
I may be using more karma here than any human can start with legally, not bothering with the math.
+30 die

Total with no ware, no metahuman properties, and more foci than anybody should possibly have:

51 dice to resist drain. Probably cut down a few to add to your sorcery because with one die about the only spell that's going to have any odds of success is a health spell on a shapeshifter what with their 8 essence. On the other hand you may get lucky with centering and get up to 6 more dice.

Posted by: Espiritu Nov 4 2004, 06:42 PM

How long does Pain Editer last really? I don't know of a set period before it cuts out.

Oh and don't forget a Conjured elemental to help resist the drain associated by lending Force=Dice.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 4 2004, 06:44 PM

The Pain Editor lasts until you deactivate it. It's one of the few bioware implants that has a "switch."

Posted by: Espiritu Nov 4 2004, 06:47 PM

So you can keep it active until your ready to collaps via all the stun damage you accruid by over casting spells?

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 4 2004, 06:50 PM

Sure.

It's a dumb option compared to a Trauma Damper, though. You get way more bang for your buck with a TD (doubly so since it's not only cheaper, but it takes up less Bio Index and thus less Magic Loss). If you have both, your TD becomes useless while you have the Pain Editor active.

Posted by: Espiritu Nov 4 2004, 06:59 PM

Why is it dumb? It basically would let a caster go without an upper limit on stun drain. Basically a combat caster. Why is it a disadvantage in your eyes?

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 4 2004, 07:01 PM

It's dumb because the Trauma Damper actually reduces your Drain. Light Drain becomes non-existant. Moderate drops to only two boxes of Light. Serious drops to Moderate, etc.

If you have both as a backup, once you turn the Pain Editor on you lose any benefit the Trauma Damper would grant you. So sure, you can ignore the effect of whatever drain you take with the PE, but you're still going to wrack drain up faster with it.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Nov 4 2004, 07:04 PM

A trauma damper is better if you're casting manageable spells, and when you have very little drain. The TD will help you maintain this state of very little drain. However, once the drain gets up there, while the TD still helps to keep drain smaller, your spell effects really start to suffer. At that point, a pain editor will let you continue to cast to full effect, but since it overrides the TD drain will again accrue at the normal rate, instead of the reduced rate of the TD.
Ideally you'd have both and be able to use the TD to keep the drain away, but once it gets bad switch to the PE, but that's a lot of bioware.

Posted by: Espiritu Nov 4 2004, 07:04 PM

Ok...use Trauma Dampener up to a high level and then use Pain Editor to keep you going?

EDIT: Nm, someone at least understand where i was going with that.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Nov 4 2004, 07:09 PM

Sure, if you can afford to get both. You can always leave the PE off and just use the TD, but if you don't mind the bio-hit, having extra options (the PE) is never a bad thing. If you've really, really got to do a good job casting this last spell, and frag the drain, go for it.
In SR2 we always made sure the mage knew a high-force hellblast, just in case. The drain on that beast was a near guaranteed pass-out (considering if you're using it, you're already in deep), but it saved us a couple of times.
Ahhhh, hellblast.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 4 2004, 07:16 PM

I never said the Pain Editor itself was a bad option. I said that compared to the Trauma Damper, it was a bad choice if you only had one to choose from. If you have both, the PE will likely stay off almost all the time.

'Course when I play a magician, I never bother with spells with insane Drain Codes to begin with that I wouldn't have much of a chance reducing at least marginally. Those are just suicide spells.

Posted by: ES_Riddle Nov 4 2004, 11:59 PM

Don't think about a pain editor for prolonged periods of casting unless you also have a biomonitor and an image link. Once you hit D stun you'll start overflowing into physical and not even realize it. Pain editor is good for casting one or two spells with ridiculous drain (simultaneous force 10 powerballs at D & M, respectively), because if you try much more you have a decent chance of killing yourself.

Posted by: elbows Nov 5 2004, 04:45 PM

When you hit Deadly stun, don't you still pass out even with the pain editor on?

Posted by: Bigity Nov 5 2004, 04:53 PM

For some reason, I thought you totally ignored stun wounds (even 10 boxes) with an activated pain editor.

Posted by: Kremlin KOA Nov 5 2004, 04:57 PM

nope on deadly stun with a pain editor you are fully active

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 5 2004, 05:02 PM

The Pain Editor disadvantage is that you still take physical wound modifiers, but you don't know you're wounded save by visual examination.

~J

Posted by: ES_Riddle Nov 5 2004, 07:30 PM

Posted by: Bigity Nov 5 2004, 07:58 PM

Well, yea, I meant injury modifiers and the whole unconcious thing.