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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ SURGE?

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 03:21 PM

OK, so I have seen people talk about SURGE. I have also seen people talk about a flaw that makes you dual Natured. Can any one tell me what book this is in? I have a player who really wants to be Dual Natured so he can take Aura Reading.

Thanks.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Oct 28 2004, 03:22 PM

http://www.stiggybaby.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FPR10650&Category_Code=FPRSR&Product_Count=0.

Posted by: toturi Oct 28 2004, 03:23 PM

Year of the Comet.

In the book, there is an Edge and a Flaw that can get you Aura Reading.

Posted by: Backgammon Oct 28 2004, 03:33 PM

QUOTE (GaiasWrath8)

I have a player who really wants to be Dual Natured so he can take Aura Reading.

This player may need to re-read what being Dual Natured entails.

Posted by: Nikoli Oct 28 2004, 03:41 PM

They might want to consider the Edge that grants astral perception (and a magic rating of 1 provided Essence isn't below 1)

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 03:44 PM

Oh cool, so this is all in Year of the Comet? No wonder. I must pick it up then.

Posted by: Canid13 Oct 28 2004, 03:46 PM

QUOTE (Nikoli)

magic rating of 1 provided Essence isn't below 1

Nikoli, is this stated somewhere? I've a sam who has essence 3 and bio index of like 5 or so and I though it'd be cool for her to have this effect but wasn't sure if her existing essence loss and bio index would make her lose her 'magic point'.

I had thought that any further magic loss once a character 'surges' that'd take it away but wasn't sure.

Posted by: toturi Oct 28 2004, 03:47 PM

QUOTE (Nikoli)

They might want to consider the Edge that grants astral perception (and a magic rating of 1 provided Essence isn't below 1)

That is incorrect, anyone with Essense above 0 can have that Edge. But it is going to be one hell of a roll or he's gotta pay BPs through the nose.

Posted by: Fortune Oct 28 2004, 03:50 PM

[edit]Move along. Nothing to see here.[/edit]

Posted by: Nikoli Oct 28 2004, 03:53 PM

Unless it happened in game, which isn't likely. Hrmm, I coulda swore that one edge had an essence minimum, because of the Magic attribute granting, which IIRC it's the only way to gain the magic attribute for a mundane.

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 03:58 PM

Well you have all been helpful. I just ordered the book from amazon. Any one mind telling me how many points Dual Natured is?

also, The player who wants this has an essance of 2+ left but lots of bio, could he take that other one you were talking about, the ability to peak? How many points was that?

Posted by: Gilthanis Oct 28 2004, 04:07 PM

Also keep in mind that per the erratta, IIRC, they changed how bio index + cyberware effect magic. If you have 4 points of essence loss from cyberware and 4 points of bio index, you now total -6 when calculating magic.

EDIT] I meant -6 Essence not target numbers.

Posted by: Canid13 Oct 28 2004, 04:10 PM

Dual natured is like -10 I think - it's a 'flaw' while the 'edge' is something similar in points costs.

With the magic rating astral perception edge, does the magic point get lost automatically if you aren't whole (Essence 6 and Bioindex 0) when you become a SURGE Changeling or do you get it at the 'false zero' which is whatever your stats are at the time and then lose the magic point (and hence your ability to percieve) should you lose more essence and/or increase your bio index?

As for the dice roll, I'm pretty sure it says that you round essence down to get the number of dice you roll.

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 04:21 PM

ok, so I am missing something. If you are dual natured (10 point flaw) you can see astraly...all he time. So you can take aura reading..but thats only a suplamentry skill. So what would I roll for a non-magic charector to assence some one? And also, does magic have a default?

Posted by: Fortune Oct 28 2004, 04:30 PM

Intelligence for Assensing. Magic skills, according to canon, cannot default to anything ... even Willpower. There is currently a large thread about house-rules for this very subject.

Posted by: Nikoli Oct 28 2004, 04:32 PM

Well, with no Magic Attribute, you'd have to rely on the Aura Reading Skill and take half your successes for the assencing table.

Just remember a dual-natured character has trouble with barriers, annoyed astral creatures and astral targeting as well as they will likely catch a goodly share of the incomming fire as the mage on the opposing side sees their little astral beacon self and tells the gun-bunnys to fire your way.

Posted by: Gilthanis Oct 28 2004, 04:32 PM

You use intelligence to aura read and the aura reading skill is complimentary. Don't forget if you are initiated, you also get an astral pool equal to your grade that can also be used when assensing. Instead of using dual natured which is pretty hard to surge to being it is like -10. You could get Astral perception which is +6 and take other negative flaws. That would be much safer and more beneficial.

According to the books, there is no default for Magic specifically. Either you have it or you don't....whith the exception of SURGE which still means you only had it because the mana levels rose enough to open yours.

Keep in mind also that by Surging and getting the magic point, that does not allow you to use any of the magic skills except aura reading and possibly enchanting as described. So, no metamagics and no initiating. Unless you are a mage already.

You could though make wards. The second biggest benefit even though they would only be force 1's.

Posted by: Nikoli Oct 28 2004, 04:35 PM

I dunno, I'd allow a newly awakened character to begin learning magic. But not at char-gen. They could have the edge, but not take sorcery or conjuring, they'd have to learn that in game. It also means that if they want to be able to toss more than a force 1 anything, they had better come up with some karma to initiate and raise their magic attribute.

Posted by: Gilthanis Oct 28 2004, 04:41 PM

QUOTE (Nikoli)

But the Astral Perception Surge benefit specifically says no other magic skills except the enchanting and aura reading and the character gets a Magic rating of 1.

The dual natured flaw says they can now learn aura reading but doesn't specifically say they can do anything else which would require a Magic skill, that they are not given.

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 04:43 PM

I have already told this guy that Dual Natured was nuts, but players will do what ever they want until some one puts a bullet in there head.

Two of my five players are already dual nature.

A Physical Adept Drake...
and a Shapeshifter (Bear) Full Shaman of Bear Albino... Talk about taking it to far.

So with two other dual natured charectors he felt safe taking it. Man I am really going to screw with them when they sleep.

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 04:45 PM

Ok, sorry. So then If some one took dual natured they would be able to use aura reading, take half sucsess and add to an Int check? Would the int check be at defualt penaltees?

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Oct 28 2004, 04:45 PM

If that much of the group is already dual-natured, most of the problems that being dual-natured causes is a moot point -- the team's already tripping wards and astral-targeting opponents don't have just one guy to focus all of their attacks on.

Posted by: Nikoli Oct 28 2004, 04:54 PM

Yeah, then it's time for a high force manaball from astral space

Posted by: Fortune Oct 28 2004, 04:55 PM

Assensing is always Intelligence, with Aura Reading as complimentary. There is no need to default.

Dual Natured is nowhere near as bad if the character is Magically-active (which is why it's only a 5 point flaw for them), especially if they can Initiate and pick up Masking.

Posted by: Nikoli Oct 28 2004, 04:56 PM

True. That's be a fun flaw to mix with Spirit Bane

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Oct 28 2004, 04:57 PM

Assensing is not always Intelligence. Psychometry, which is assensing on crack, uses Aura Reading as the primary trait.

Posted by: Fortune Oct 28 2004, 05:07 PM

Technically, Psychometry is Psychometry, and is not Assensing (even though it is, as you say, the equivalent of Assensing on crack). That being said, Psychometry would not apply in this case, as the character would not have access to it.

In all cases where Assensing is used (not the Metamagic Psychometry), Intelligence is what is used, complimented by Aura Reading.

Posted by: Kremlin KOA Oct 28 2004, 05:47 PM

GW8 Kill the player, or if you want to be nice just his character

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 06:45 PM

OK, now being a person who just ordered but has not recived the year of the comet book. Can you tell me, can any one take this 10 point flaw (5 if magic) of being dual natured? Is it just being dualed natured or do they gain a magic atributed like some one was hinting earler in this thred.

Posted by: Gilthanis Oct 28 2004, 06:49 PM

First of all... it costs 5 building points just to SURGE. Then you choose the bonuses and such just like normal edges and flaws.

If someone surges in the game, you have to role against a target number that comes from a surge table and they don't necessarilly choose what happens with the surge.

Posted by: bitrunner Oct 28 2004, 06:55 PM

Another option is that in the old Germany sourcebook, there was a way to take a priority C (IIRC) in Magic to give your character "the sight" - they would have astral perception but no ability to cast magic or have adept powers (other than astral perception, of course)...his background would, i hope, make him from this region of Germany where this population hales from...

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 07:04 PM

Ok...so I really do have to wait for the book to get here. Ok thanks for all the help.

Posted by: Ancient History Oct 28 2004, 07:56 PM

Bitrunner: Not /quite/. You can take priority "D" in magic and gain limited astral perception, which costs karma to activate.

Posted by: GaiasWrath8 Oct 28 2004, 08:04 PM

And that is printed in what book? the Germain Source book? Why do they get cooler stuff than the US?

Posted by: bitrunner Oct 28 2004, 08:09 PM

so i DIDN'T recall correctly...meh...

and it is in the sourcebook for Germany...printed in English...you know, the book that talks about Germany...old book....

Strangely, there is NOTHING in the new SoE book in the Germany section about these people - no kind of "SOTA" entry or update...

Posted by: Ecclesiastes Oct 28 2004, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (Ancient History)

Bitrunner: Not /quite/. You can take priority "D" in magic and gain limited astral perception, which costs karma to activate.

When used, did they become dual natured and able to attack spirits?

Posted by: Ancient History Oct 28 2004, 08:19 PM

Since astral perception makes you dual natured , I would say yes, though the point was not specifically addressed in the book.