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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Building a Better Tank

Posted by: mrobviousjosh Oct 30 2004, 11:51 PM

Okay, so I want to make a starting character who's a vehicle rigger with a tank. Not a "true tank" but one like from the movie Aliens. If you're unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, here's a decent pic. of it http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue24/tank.gif

I know it's: 1) wheels are all reinforced 2) it has obvious armor plating 3) what appears to be one firmpoint for the gun on top 4) and decent speed/handling. How would I go about building it for use by a starting character? I'm afraid I don't know Rigger 3 inside and out.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Oct 31 2004, 12:00 AM

Looks like a Wheeled APC chassis to me. That, or a Heavy Transport. Take your pick. Then find the Power Plant that best suits your tastes (I like Electric Fuel Cells, but that's just me), cram it with armor, and add a turret. You should be able to do most of that within a starting character's budget, assuming you had the GM's blessing (since the Availability would likely be above 8 and stuff).

Posted by: mrobviousjosh Oct 31 2004, 01:29 AM

He and I had discussed getting it secondhand/scrap and building it back up with some vehicle flaws already inserted to compensate for availability and won't allow me to get a permit on any level for it (which is logical).

Posted by: Tanka Oct 31 2004, 03:05 AM

QUOTE (mrobviousjosh)

"You drive your WHAT down the streets of Seattle?!"

Posted by: toturi Oct 31 2004, 03:15 AM

If it was a Heavy Transport, then perhaps it could have a permit. An APC chassis, no way. IIRC, the APC creation rules are in the German Rigger.

Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Oct 31 2004, 03:38 AM

Wheeled and Tracked APC chassis are in my very english Rigger 3.
Ok, would someone like to check my math, I have a sketched together attempt at matching the criteria:

[ Spoiler ]

[edit]Implemented Doc's basic advice/correction

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Oct 31 2004, 04:00 AM

You might as well apply the Used Vehicle quality factor since you're buying an old one. Lower the Mark-Up by -0.60. Other than that and a miscalculation on the cost for Runflat Tires (vehicles already come with tires, so you just need to pay the +200 nuyen per tire, making it +800 nuyen instead of +2,000 nuyen), and it looks about right upon casual observation.

I'm sure you'll want to add more toys. I know I would. But that's a solid start.

Posted by: mrobviousjosh Oct 31 2004, 10:47 AM

Wow, thanks guys! It would have taken me SO long to make one myself with the rules but I can customize okay.

Posted by: Edward Oct 31 2004, 06:15 PM

Personally I would have had more armour

I like armour personally on that think I would have put it up to 10 points. You do loos a point of handling but you would be all but immune to small arms fire. And can get the handling back with improved suspension.

Also don’t forget refinements such as signal amplifiers for your RCD electronics ports, communications equipment and a coffee machine.

Edward

Posted by: DocMortand Oct 31 2004, 11:55 PM

Bah when you mentioned Space Marine I thought you were talking Land Raider - and that sucker wouldn't fit down any street in downtown.

Heck...what about a Bane Blade or a Titan in SR...gah.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 1 2004, 12:08 AM

I meant to comment on this earlier but I completely forgot to.

mrobviousjosh, I'm assuming this is one of your first attempts at creating a rigger. If so, you're making a mistake that a lot of newbie rigger players make... big, bad, armored vehicles are not a good idea for runners. Sure, you'll mow down gangers and standard security forces... but the moment that monster hits the street, gangers and standard security forces are not going to be what you're running into. Lone Star and other corporations will immediately send out its heavy forces and the nearby military base will likely deploy some equal-to-superior firepower the moment they hear about it, especially if it's a former military vehicle.

In essence, it's just going to be a collossal waste of cash for you as it will either be a pretty conversational piece or junk. In the latter case, you'll probably be buried right along with it.

Just a fair warning. I know character concepts like this can be fun, but you might want to try something a little more practical and wait for your GM to make a tank or something available in a one-shot merc scenario or something.

Posted by: DocMortand Nov 1 2004, 12:14 AM

Or for use when Saito makes his move in CalFree.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 1 2004, 12:17 AM

Indeed. Anything bigger than a medium transport is going to take a lot of work to keep concealed, and a van or car is easier still. Also, assuming you're going to put a lot of work into your primary vehicle, having secondary vehicles that you can lose if their descriptions hit the Star databases is a very good thing. I'm desperately saving up money for just that purpose.

~J

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 1 2004, 12:21 AM

An Electric Fuel Cell Van with a good amount of Concealable Armor and a Micro Pop-Up Turret or two is definitely the way to go. Throw on some Photovoltaic Chameleon Paint, a Morphing License Plate, and a Transponder Library Chip and you'll be able to go just about anywhere you like without drawing much attention. Small IR Smoke Projectors and Oil Slick Sprayers are a plus, as is a decent ED and ECM/ECCM suite.

Oh, and just as one last bit of advice, Handling and Acceleration is a lot more useful and important than Speed is. Once you hit the 150 mark, you have more Speed than you'll really ever need. But you can never have a high enough Acceleration and low enough Handling rating.

Posted by: Lindt Nov 1 2004, 12:23 AM

Down side is fuel cell only gets half flux. I still prefer desel.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 1 2004, 12:26 AM

That's what dirt-cheap Power Amplifiers and Signal Amplifiers are for. Diesel is louder and easier to detect due to its low Signature of 2 whereas an EFC has a base Signature of 5... which is probably the third most important stat for a runner's vehicle.

Besides, a low Flux is a good thing sometimes.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 1 2004, 01:00 AM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

Once you hit the 150 mark, you have more Speed than you'll really ever need.

Unless you decide to be a ramming machine, which can be your most potent weapon.

Regarding Flux, you can always lower your Flux so that's a nonissue. EFC is nice, I'm starting to see the joy, but it's limiting in some ways (being able to haul metric tons can be freeing).

~J

Posted by: Spark Nov 1 2004, 02:55 AM

[QUOTE]Small IR Smoke Projectors and Oil Slick Sprayers are a plus, as is a decent ED and ECM/ECCM suite.

speaking of countermeasures, is there a way that people could design some? i.e. zap strip layers, nail dumpboxes and other nasty items etc.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 1 2004, 03:02 AM

Zap Strips exist in the same section of Rigger 3 as the Oil-Slick Sprayer and Morphing License Plate. The "other nasty items" would be in the hands of the GM's whim. I'd say nails and anything else like that would be pretty ineffective against Runflat Tires even if the rules don't necessarily state as much.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 1 2004, 03:18 AM

Runflat tyres are 5/3 armored and roll 5 points of Body on damage resistance. I don't know how much damage a nail would do, but I have the feeling that it'd be fairly ineffectual.

If you have the Load, a jersey barrier that you can tip out the back would work nicely. 600 lbs per linear foot…

~J

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 1 2004, 03:20 AM

I'm just saying that I don't care for the rules they use whatsoever. I like the sci-fi flavor of the self-inflating super tires you see in flicks like Demolition Man.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 1 2004, 03:24 AM

Fair enough

As I implied, I like ridiculously heavy blocks of concrete better.

~J

Posted by: Bigity Nov 1 2004, 12:21 PM

Are we talking Colonial Marines from Aliens, or Space Marines, as in Warhammer 40k and the Emperor and stuff?

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Nov 1 2004, 12:58 PM

QUOTE (Bigity)

Are we talking Colonial Marines from Aliens, or Space Marines, as in Warhammer 40k and the Emperor and stuff?

QUOTE (mrobviousjob)

Not a "true tank" but one like from the movie Aliens. If you're unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, here's a decent pic. of it [here follows a picture of the APC from the movie Aliens II]

Posted by: Spark Nov 1 2004, 05:05 PM

interesting idea "the jersey barriers" might work, but how much would they cost and whats barrier rating for them. also are there or would there be any additional effects?

Posted by: Savior Nov 1 2004, 05:26 PM

And for those Riggers with more money than brains, Dikoted Caltrops!!

Posted by: Bigity Nov 1 2004, 07:19 PM

Personally I thought the APC in Aliens sucked. Never fired a weapon, and after ramming through one garage type door, it was broken.

I'd rake a Rhino myself.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Nov 1 2004, 07:27 PM

QUOTE (Bigity)

Personally I thought the APC in Aliens sucked. Never fired a weapon, and after ramming through one garage type door, it was broken.

I'd rake a Rhino myself.

Oh come on. It had an independently targeting particle beam phalax. VWAP! Fry half a city with that puppy. They had tactical smart missiles, phased-plasma pulse rifles, RPG's. They had sonic electronic ball breakers, they had nukes, they had knives . . . sharp sticks!

Posted by: Bigity Nov 1 2004, 10:00 PM

Yea, all that cool crap and not one once of it got used...not even the sticks!

At least the Sentry guns made it into SR.

Posted by: Garland Nov 1 2004, 10:24 PM

The Colonial Marine Field Manual Goes into a pretty absurd amount of detail on the APC, including a bunch of variants.

Edit: typo...

Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Nov 1 2004, 11:49 PM

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)

QUOTE (Bigity @ Nov 1 2004, 07:19 PM)

Personally I thought the APC in Aliens sucked. Never fired a weapon, and after ramming through one garage type door, it was broken.

I'd rake a Rhino myself.

Think you forgot Bad Language.

But that did get used....

Posted by: Birdy Nov 2 2004, 07:01 PM

QUOTE (Bigity)

Personally I thought the APC in Aliens sucked. Never fired a weapon, and after ramming through one garage type door, it was broken.

I'd rake a Rhino myself.

Hey, nobody needs a vehicle gun when you have:

Ripley
Gaffer Tape
A rifle
A flame thrower
And a f*** huge athmosphere processor

Btw. wouldn one of the "Masters" (Mobmaster/Citymaster/...) make a decent base for this vehicle. Didn't seem all that heavily armored watching the hatch.

Birdy

Posted by: mrobviousjosh Nov 4 2004, 02:07 AM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

You are quite correct, it's my first rigger but I wanted something different than a flying vehicle which is all I ever hear/see most of the time. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

Posted by: Mercer Nov 4 2004, 11:19 AM

For riggers, my fave vehicle type are relatively cheap "disposable" vehicles. Things like stock Americars painted like taxi cabs, something that can go most places without getting looked at twice and that isn't going to break your heart if it gets shot up or has to be abandoned somewhere. The last rigger I played pretty much used only stolen cars, and I didn't like havong them for more than an hour. Get it, use it, break it or leave it burning. Having a 100K vehicle that you use on most runs is just like begging the GM to take a quarter of your starting money the first time things screw up. But, YMMV.

Posted by: DarkShade Nov 4 2004, 11:46 AM

just a minor thing..
"Suncell: 5dp (what, you think they'll recharge this thing at any gas station?)"
beware that it may take a whole LOT of time to refill your apc using suncells..even assuming in SR they get them to 100% efficiency..

and I would advice against it as a) you cannot hide b) you draw a LOT of attention.. if you drive with that in seattle you`ll probably get a phone call from any contact telling you you are live on the trid!

tv cameramen, worse than cops, a shadowrunners worst enemy

just get a van, max acceleration, get some concealed armor, & a few drones for the heavy work..
DS

Posted by: toturi Nov 4 2004, 12:19 PM

Suncell is one of the worst things to get... Sun? What sun? Sun in Seattle?

Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Nov 4 2004, 06:20 PM

A vehicle like my write-up should never be seen in Seattle. It would immediately attract weaponry that would tear it to shreds. Besides, mild overcast works at half power, recharging the whole cell in two or three hours (not rechecking the numbers).

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 4 2004, 06:27 PM

Seattle gets tons of sun. Everyone who insists that it's constantly overcast and raining should be put down execution style.

Posted by: mrobviousjosh Nov 4 2004, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (DarkShade)

I would advice against it as b) you draw a LOT of attention.. if you drive with that in seattle you`ll probably get a phone call from any contact telling you you are live on the trid!

I meant to reply earlier, that's so fraggin funny! But, yeah, you're 100% right!

Posted by: Fortune Nov 4 2004, 09:18 PM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

Seattle gets tons of sun. Everyone who insists that it's constantly overcast and raining should be put down execution style.

It isn't really their fault. Most people haven't been there, an rely on the description, most of which seem to push the misty and rainy elements. In reality, Seattle is a pretty nice city, with a relatively temperate climate and a little larger than average chance of rain.

Posted by: Kanada Ten Nov 4 2004, 11:56 PM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

Seattle gets tons of sun. Everyone who insists that it's constantly overcast and raining should be put down execution style.

Don't you know man? It's all Global Warming and the Great Ghost Dance that screwed it the weather. Now it always rains in Seattle. Of course, it doesn't matter to runner who can't take their pimped out tanks onto the streets until night anyway...

Posted by: FlakJacket Nov 5 2004, 12:08 AM

Who needs a tank or APC chassis? Just fit four points of concealed hardened armour onto a regular vehicle and nothing short of a shotgun or sport/sniper rifle is going to be able to scratch you without anti-vehicular ammunition. Add another point and it's rifles only and is a hell of a lot more inconspicuous than a tank.

Posted by: DocMortand Nov 5 2004, 01:49 AM

Now if there was only a way to have a concealed pop-up naval cannon turret....

Posted by: mrobviousjosh Nov 6 2004, 08:44 AM

QUOTE (FlakJacket @ Nov 4 2004, 07:08 PM)

The tank just looks so fraggin cool...