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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ "Spider Sense" type of edge

Posted by: Shanshu Freeman Nov 8 2004, 02:04 AM

So I thought it would be neat to have an edge similar to Spiderman's "Spider Sense." Of course it couldn't be nearly as effective or trustworthy as the real thing is, because that would upset game balance.

Has this already been done?
Can anybody create an edge similar to, or inspired by "Spider Sense" that would be acceptable in most games?

EDIT:
Clarification

This would be applied to an *existing* *mundane* character, through the application of *karma*

Posted by: toturi Nov 8 2004, 02:06 AM

Sixth Sense? Combat Sense? I'd even allow Divination.

Posted by: Shanshu Freeman Nov 8 2004, 02:09 AM

purchasable by karma as an edge for a mundane?

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 8 2004, 02:28 AM

See the Lightning Reflexes edge.

Anything that boosts Reaction either directly or for purposes of Surprise Tests is a "spider sense." An edge that allows you to use Rule of Six on Surprise would also be a possibility (ie, roll a 6, get a success and a free reoll), though it should be a hefty Edge before I'd considered allowing it. An Aptitude in Surprise Tests (as opposed to a Skill) might also be an interesting possibility.

Posted by: Kyuhan Nov 8 2004, 02:56 AM

I know this thread wasn't for exact specs, but I'll do this anyway. Spider-Sense has been used for a butt load of things, this is a list of physad powers (cannon and non) that I'd combine for accurate Spidey Sense:

Blind Fighting
Combat Sense Level 3
A limited form of Empathic Sense
Magic Sense
Like 5 or 6 levels of Sixth Sense
Probably a couple levels of True Sight as well.

It's even demonstrated some SONAR capability, so the SONAR power from the Adept's Handybook could be applicable, though that's non cannon.
Also the Melee Sense power from the handybook would be countable too, also non cannon.

Posted by: Hemlok Nov 8 2004, 03:02 AM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

Doesn't the adrenaline rush edge do the Rule of Six thing?

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 8 2004, 03:04 AM

Only for Initiative (and then is horrible because it gives you a +1 TN on everything you do -- irk). A variant for Surprise Tests would actually have a more profound impact since Surprise Tests have a set TN of 4 in most situations. The Rule of Six was just the means of determining when you'd get a free chance to make another success; it wouldn't function in the same way as the standard RoS.

Posted by: Shanshu Freeman Nov 8 2004, 03:07 AM

This would be applied to an *existing* *mundane* character, through the application of *karma*

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 8 2004, 03:10 AM

In that case why are you asking about Edges? Edges can't be purchased with Karma (though Flaws can be bought off with Karma and GM approval).

The only other logical option is to go with a Martial Arts Maneuver. Maybe one that lets you add half your Skill level to Surprise Tests or something, but then requires you to use that skill as part of your action if you win Surprise. An Iajutsu-style art might be a good example of one that would include this maneuver (along with a Quick Draw maneuver).

Posted by: Shanshu Freeman Nov 8 2004, 03:23 AM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that earlier...

our gm rarely allows someone to purchase edges in game, with karma... similar to the flaw mechanic.

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 8 2004, 03:26 AM

You pretty much have your answer then.

* Lightning Reflexes
* Aptitude (Surprise Tests) [requires GM approval]
* Adrenaline Surge variant for Surprise Tests [requires GM approval; recommended against]
* Anything else that boosts Reaction directly or for purposes of Surprise Tests

Canonically speaking, Lightning Reflexes is your only recourse. That or boosting both Quickness and Intelligence.

Posted by: Shanshu Freeman Nov 8 2004, 03:29 AM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

Canonically speaking, Lightning Reflexes is your only recourse. That or boosting both Quickness and Intelligence.

will probably do that...

I guess I was wondering if anybody came up with a home made edge that didn't look insane....

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 8 2004, 03:30 AM

A couple of suggestions have already been made to that affect, too.

Posted by: Shanshu Freeman Nov 8 2004, 04:25 AM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

A couple of suggestions have already been made to that affect, too.

.... then I need glasses

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 8 2004, 04:30 AM

QUOTE

An edge that allows you to use Rule of Six on Surprise would also be a possibility (ie, roll a 6, get a success and a free reoll), though it should be a hefty Edge before I'd considered allowing it.

QUOTE

An Aptitude in Surprise Tests (as opposed to a Skill) might also be an interesting possibility.

QUOTE

The only other logical option is to go with a Martial Arts Maneuver. Maybe one that lets you add half your Skill level to Surprise Tests or something, but then requires you to use that skill as part of your action if you win Surprise. An Iajutsu-style art might be a good example of one that would include this maneuver (along with a Quick Draw maneuver).

Posted by: Shanshu Freeman Nov 8 2004, 04:45 AM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

QUOTE

An edge that allows you to use Rule of Six on Surprise would also be a possibility (ie, roll a 6, get a success and a free reoll), though it should be a hefty Edge before I'd considered allowing it.

QUOTE

An Aptitude in Surprise Tests (as opposed to a Skill) might also be an interesting possibility.

QUOTE

"Oh, I see. Then I guess everything is wrapped up in a neat little package. Really, I mean that. Sorry if it sounded sarcastic." -Homer Simpson

Thanks for putting it all in one place for me. </lazy>

Posted by: Stumps Nov 8 2004, 06:43 AM

Spidey sense is actually almost visual and his sense makes him suddenly leap into action without really thinking about it to commonly dodge something that would otherwise cause severe damage to him.

This would be like sixth sense in a way, but what Spidey Sense really applies to is surprise.

The ability to be standing with your back to someone who is sneaking up at you with a katana and sense them in almost a visual sense when they start bringing the sword down in an agressive release of energy that threatens "spidey"

That's basically what he picks up on. Agressive release of energy that threatens him.

Sitting in a room and suddenly dodging behind something a second before the door bursts open with gun fire.
Stuff like that are similar to the spidey sense.

I'd pretty much favor that a mundane wouldn't have such an ability because being mundane would kind of suggest that there is nothing special about the person.
Second, magic is pretty much how shadowrun would describe "super powers".

so this would most likely fall under adpets and could be a power that allows the adept to add dice to their Surprise test, which in turn would allow them to have a higher chance of not being surprised like everyone else, which in turn would allow them to get the hell out of the way of what ever was comming up.

But basically...this has already been done with Combat Sense, since Combat Sense allows you to add 1/4, 1/2, or Full amount your dice from your Combat Pool to your Reaction Test.
So, have Combat Sense, good Intelligence, good Quickness, and good Willpower to give you a good Combat Pool and you've got your spidey sense.

If you have a 6 in all of those attributes, you will have a Combat Pool of 9.
Combat Sense level 1 gives you +1 to that pool making it 10.
1/4 of that pool would be 2 dice.
Your Reaction would be 6 (Intelligence + Quickness / 2)
So your surprise roll would be 6D6 + 2D6 (or 8D6)

At level 3 you would have a surprise roll of 18D6
6D6 Reaction
(10D6 Combat Pool + 3D6 from Combat Sense) = 12D6
12D6 augmented Combat Pool + 6D6 Reaction = 18D6

Go Spidey Go!

Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Nov 8 2004, 07:25 AM

Which if im not mistaken would close to imdaiately refresh as most Suprise tests happen before you roll for iniative........

Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Nov 8 2004, 07:29 AM

QUOTE

This would be like sixth sense in a way, but what Spidey Sense really applies to is surprise.

Never read the Sixth Sense power have ya?

(Hint: That's exactly what Sixth Sense grants you; better Surprise Test rolls.) Lightning Reflexes is the mundane version of that power.

'Course, all of this had been mentioned earlier in the thread anyway. "Spidey sense" is just another way of saying you have a really great set of stats for Surprise Tests. Adepts will be better at it than any other character simply because that's one of their best abilities.

Posted by: Edward Nov 8 2004, 08:26 AM

I never liked the idea that you couldn’t by edges in game. Many of those edges are ones that can be learned. Eg, home ground, resistance to pathogens (I acquired this one while living in Indonesia), collage education, technical school education, connected (just make the right friend), good looking and knows it, human looking. Those re the ones I can justify easily (the last two may require surgery). I think they should be allowed at a similar karma and effort cost to riding yourself of a flaw subject to GM aprovel of eth individual edge.

For this specific question would recommend lightning reflexes perceptive and a high int. aptitude in surprise tests would also be useful but is not canon.

Edward

Posted by: Kyuhan Nov 8 2004, 06:41 PM

Don't forget though, that Spidey Sense has been used to alert him of creaky floors when he was trying to be sneaky and the like. From a comic point of view, I'd say it's a limited for of cosmic awareness, with the subconcious mind at the controls...good luck translating that to Shadowrun while maintaining a balance.

Posted by: Stumps Nov 8 2004, 07:52 PM

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)

QUOTE

This would be like sixth sense in a way, but what Spidey Sense really applies to is surprise.

Never read the Sixth Sense power have ya?

I'll admit to one count of wrongful RPGing and one count of wrongful posting.

holds out hands for cuffs.

It's been a while since I read all the adept powers and I only used them in one character.

And I didn't read every line in the thread.

I'm guilty

Posted by: Stumps Nov 8 2004, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (Edward)

I never liked the idea that you couldn’t by edges in game. Many of those edges are ones that can be learned.

QUOTE

home ground

Can be gained in game during a long campaign after the character has stayed in one area long enough to become familiar with the place as if it were "home" through the use of the player and GM networking the characters flow of information that he/she is able to get ahold of easier than other people.

QUOTE

resistance to pathogens (I acquired this one while living in Indonesia)

Can be gained via the GM taking things like this into account and simply stating that such is the case as a side effect from a prolonged stay in such an area.
"Prolonged" would be the GM's call.

QUOTE

collage education, technical school education

You can get that in game. We've done it. We've even gone out and gotten day jobs without the edge/flaw for it.

QUOTE

connected (just make the right friend)

You said it. "just make the right friend" (s) in game.

QUOTE

good looking and knows it, human looking

Like you said, plastic surgery.
I had a character who was made to look like an elf so he could disappear.

It's exactly as they say it in the Shadowrun Companion.
SC, p15, Edges And Flaws:
"Edges and Flaws help players create more fully realized starting characters and give the gamemaster a few good hooks with which to bring new characters into the campaign."

The reason that they aren't needed after character generation is simply because the edges and flaws try to mock things that would be possibly gained during a characters span of in game use, but since they are a new character they have no in game use, so edges and flaws are there to help create that mock-up to be added onto as you play the character.
The only reason that the edges and flaws are bought at all in the beginning is simply because there has to be some form of balance for them, otherwise we'd all just go grab them all.
In game, there is no need for a point system specifically for these "edges" or "flaws" because the amount of time it takes to gain any of them in game is a balance in itself, not to mention that some of them cost skill points or money as well to gain when doing so in game.