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Posted by: TBRMInsanity Nov 30 2009, 05:18 PM

I was lucky enough to get an invite to Google Wave ( http://wave.google.com ) and right off the bat I saw the many possibilities to use Wave for Shadowrun. Wave is like a forum, mixed with a text chat site, mixed with an office document. It allows new people to "play back" waves from the start so they can experience how the wave developed organically. My Shadowrun group is already using Wave to record our past adventures as a battle log and that is working great but I can see it being pared with Skype (or some other VOIP tool) to be used for online Shadowrun games. The ablility to attack links, pictures, videos, documents, etc into waves makes it easy for GMs to deciminate info to players. The creation of seperate waves with select participants means you can quitely send messages to other players (or the GM) without others knowing (essential in the clock and dagger universe of SR).

I still have 4 more invites left if someone else would like to try Wave (you will get 10 invites after using Wave for a couple weeks).

Posted by: Nigel Nov 30 2009, 10:45 PM

I agree that Wave is a great tool for Shadowrun (and RPGs in general). There's even a dicebot that works with SR4-style rolls (it's called Random Lee Twenty).

And for the record, I received 8 invites to send out after I joined up, not 10.

Posted by: Nifar Dec 1 2009, 04:26 AM

I'd be interested in trying a Wave-based SR4 game, after someone invites me so that I can check it out. *hinthint*

Posted by: Method Dec 1 2009, 07:27 AM

Hell yeah! If anyone has extra invites laying around send one my way!

Posted by: Adrian Korvedzk Dec 1 2009, 08:57 PM

Hey, I'd like to get an invite... Starting a run with some friends cross country. Sounds like it'd make this easier.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Dec 1 2009, 10:03 PM

3 left.

Posted by: Ryu Dec 1 2009, 10:17 PM

One would need your email adress.

Posted by: GreyBrother Dec 2 2009, 01:01 AM

I have 3 invites left, and would be interested in an SR4 wave.

Posted by: Issmir Dec 2 2009, 12:45 PM

I'd love an invite. Shoot me a PM and I'll get you my email address.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Dec 2 2009, 02:21 PM

I'm out of invites.

I have some ideas on a campaign I want to put together. It won't be done till after New Years but I will make sure to put an invite in the forums before I start. You would need Wave and Skype to participate though. Keep you all posted.

Posted by: Platinum Dec 2 2009, 03:44 PM

I have 15. Send me a pm with your email addy if you want one. I have given out over 50 so far.

Posted by: Nifar Dec 2 2009, 05:50 PM

I just got hooked up to Wave, and would also be interested in a SR4 wave. Mostly because 4e is the only edition I know.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 3 2009, 01:20 PM

We've been using it as an adjunct to our chat-based SR3 game for about three days now; it has deep flaws as a replacement for the chatroom, and I don't think we're going to use it in that role anytime soon, but it has been fantastic for shifting legwork out of in-person time into between-session downtime. Far better than the forum we tried to maintain in previous games.

~J

Posted by: Phatom Dec 3 2009, 05:03 PM

Well you do have to be honest Kage what hurt that was the fact very few of the others actively keep tabs on it but yes I like the Wave system even if all we use it for is the Leg work part of the runs.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 3 2009, 05:22 PM

Well, right, but part of the point is that Wave is so easy that keeping tabs on it becomes so little work that we actually do it regularly.

~J

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 3 2009, 06:57 PM

But the documentation makes me want to STRANGLE SOMEONE!!!

~J, painfully writing an SR3 dieroller

Posted by: Generic_PC Dec 4 2009, 06:15 AM

If any of these invites are still around, send me a PM. I'd also be interested in a google wave game, though I do not have skype.

Posted by: Method Dec 4 2009, 07:11 AM

So I glitched on my "don't be a dumbass" test and gave TBRMInsanity an incorrect email address. I will PM Platinum but if anyone else is offering, I'd still like to get in on the Wave-y action.

Thanks Platinum!!

Posted by: Platinum Dec 4 2009, 03:28 PM

There is an awesome dice roller that will do shadowrun 1/2/3 called dicelink. dicelink@appspot.com



Re: invites
I have 15 invites left. Method, yours is in the system

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 4 2009, 03:59 PM

I saw it, but was displeased with the verbosity required to do SR-style rolls (on my brief examination). Anyway, I've already burned an ID on it, so I may as well finish it off

~J

Posted by: Platinum Dec 4 2009, 04:43 PM

Cool... let me know when you have it sorted out then. I will most likely switch dicebots.

Posted by: Platinum Dec 4 2009, 04:43 PM

Cool... let me know when you have it sorted out then. I will most likely switch dicebots.

Posted by: Vittek Dec 4 2009, 09:21 PM

I'm in, thanks to Platinum. Keep this thread updated about an SR4 wave, I'd really like to see it.

EDIT: Ok, Wave seems nicely done, I can see potential, although not necessarily for games.
I have just started a wave for the documentation of DamienKnight's excel character generator. If anyone cares to take a look, you can quickly find it with the tag 'Shadowrun'.

Posted by: Cheshyr Dec 5 2009, 08:36 AM

My group has started using Wave and Docs as a central place to store our character sheets, bio, run history, goals/shopping list, memorable quotes, etc... We cycle GMs so everyone gets to play, and this makes it easier for the next GM to find the information they need to create an appropriate adventure. No more digging through emails from a month ago, and asking for updates, and all that.

Just thought I'd throw that out there as an alternate SR use for Wave.

Posted by: Phatom Dec 6 2009, 06:02 PM

Oh I don't think you need to add much more to the list of stuff Wave is grate for when using it for SR stuff. The only issue's we are having is a organizational one as we have found out that the Wave can get rather messy quickly. We are going to look in to changing that how ever on the next game.

Posted by: Tricen Dec 7 2009, 09:43 PM

Anyone wanna hook me up with an invite? tricen@gmail.com

Thx ^_^

Posted by: Platinum Dec 8 2009, 01:48 PM

Invitation is entered into the queue, might be a day or two.

Posted by: 10gauge Dec 10 2009, 12:35 PM

I'd also appreciate an invite.

webmaster@trfinc.de

Thx!

Posted by: Platinum Dec 10 2009, 01:41 PM

Sent... will be in the queue

Posted by: Vittek Dec 10 2009, 09:25 PM

Anyone knows how to link a wave?

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Dec 10 2009, 09:57 PM

If you are part of the Wave:
* Make sure the person is part of your contact list (add them if they are not)
* Press the "+" button on the wave and select the person's name

If you are not part of the Wave:
* Contact someone that is part of the Wave and ask them to include you (using the instructions above)

Posted by: Vittek Dec 10 2009, 10:45 PM

Ok, I can do that... but they tell me there is a way to get a link so you can post it on the forum, for example. Any ideas?

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 10 2009, 10:54 PM

If you drag a Wave from your inbox into another Wave, it'll generate a link that you can then grab the URL from. There has to be a better way, but what that way is, I can't find.

~J

Posted by: 10gauge Dec 10 2009, 11:02 PM

Thanks, man!

Posted by: Draco18s Dec 13 2009, 03:36 PM

I got 20, used up 13, but I still have 15 (they gave me more).



If its a public wave you can add it to a new wave (drag the conversation into a wave), then right click -> copy URL. You could then paste it to anywhere and anyone has a direct link to the wave.

If its not public you have to use the aforementioned method (well, that will work, but you can't add yourself to a private wave ).

Posted by: Vittek Dec 13 2009, 06:43 PM

Ok, let's try: https://wave.google.com/wave/?pli=1#restored:wave:googlewave.com!w%252BFeGHzKhcA

Let me know if this works.

Posted by: Delarn Dec 13 2009, 09:56 PM

this works well !

--- Edit ---
I got 22 invite left !

Posted by: Draco18s Dec 14 2009, 03:51 AM

Yeah, I did it http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=23735&view=findpost&p=875546 which is how I figured it out.

Posted by: Delarn Dec 23 2009, 02:15 AM

I've used wave in my current campain to play the inbetween mission. So I am really happy with it so far ! Just miss a character sheet widget.

Posted by: ravensoracle Dec 25 2009, 06:39 AM

If anyone has any spare invites, could you hook me up? Thanks

ravensoracle@hotmail.com

Posted by: Delarn Dec 25 2009, 01:41 PM

invited !

Posted by: ravensoracle Dec 26 2009, 07:03 AM

Thanks

Posted by: McCummhail Jan 2 2010, 11:57 PM

I am extremely interested!
If someone has an invite available I would greatly appreciate it.
EDIT: *************@gmail.com

Thank you very much!

Posted by: Platinum Jan 3 2010, 12:32 AM

Invited.

Posted by: McCummhail Jan 4 2010, 10:03 PM

I've been playing with it, but it seems that wave starts to bog down when there is a lot plugged into it.
I would recommend having separate programs for separate functions until wave hits a new plateau.
Skype (or other voice system) + Wave (for chat / images / info) and possible another for grid/maps.
Depends on how you run things.
It isn't the future yet, but we are getting there.

Posted by: Draco18s Jan 8 2010, 04:33 PM

Waves get slow when you have more than about 12 participants or over 100 messages (or both?) so do be cautious. For a bit of added speed use Google Chrome (it's the only reason I have Chrome installed: I'm following a wave with over 20 participants and 200 messages and it bogs like hell in FF).

Posted by: Delarn Jan 8 2010, 09:07 PM

I use MSN for all the chatting and Wave for the rolling, after the session I copy paste all the talking from MSN into the Wave.

Posted by: THENEWBIGD Jan 18 2010, 09:03 PM

If anyone needs an invite PM me okay?

Posted by: Marston Jan 20 2010, 05:42 PM

I hate to ask, but any chance I could get an invite (if you are the giving type or have spare invites?), please?
Email is freedomgrinder@yahoo.com

Posted by: Platinum Jan 21 2010, 01:34 PM

invitation sent.

Posted by: Rystefn Jan 22 2010, 03:07 PM

So I've been lurking around here for years and never really felt a need to comment before today. I'd love to get an invite and try this out.

Posted by: DamienKnight Jan 22 2010, 04:05 PM

Invite sent.

Posted by: Rystefn Jan 22 2010, 05:06 PM

Thank you much.

Posted by: Ears Jan 23 2010, 06:04 PM

Could I get an invite, too? Thanks in advance.
giselborg@giselb.org

Posted by: Platinum Jan 23 2010, 08:15 PM

invited

Posted by: Ears Jan 23 2010, 08:59 PM

Thanks.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Feb 19 2010, 08:00 PM

I just found out that I was given an additional 17 invites. Who needs one?

Posted by: Axl Feb 19 2010, 08:32 PM

So those of you playing with Wave, how is it going?

Posted by: ker'ion Feb 19 2010, 08:37 PM

I'm not going back.
It's too slow and I can use OpenRPG, MapTools or something similar, as well as just taking it to IRC with a dice roller if I have to.

Posted by: Delarn Feb 20 2010, 01:07 AM

It has better speed with chrome ! But it is still slow and I don't enjoy it so much. I just hope that iTabletop will resolve my problems !

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Feb 20 2010, 01:34 AM

Slightly faster then playing over e-mail. Google Wave really starts to shine as a collaborative tool. As an RPG tool there are better programs out there, but when you don't have access to those programs then Google Wave is an excellent alternative. There are a couple of groups that I play with that I wouldn't have the chance to game with them if it wasn't for Google Wave and for that alone I love it.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Feb 23 2010, 07:09 PM

We decided long ago that it was not a useful tool for primary gaming, but we're continuing to use it to good effect for between-session legwork, leaving the times when we're all sitting around a (virtual) table as much as possible for action.

~J

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Feb 24 2010, 03:31 PM

I strongly recommend Dice-y for your dice rolling in Google Wave (just add the user dice-y@appspot.com to your Wave and it will convert [4d6] into [4d6 = 3 + 4 + 1 + 6 = 14] for you. I've added dicy-y to all my Google Wave games now.

Posted by: SQLCowboy Feb 24 2010, 06:45 PM

I'm actually liking it better than using a play by post forum, which is how I've gamed online before.

Posted by: Delarn Feb 25 2010, 12:43 AM

randomleetwenty@appspot.com is better. 5d6s5:6,6,5,3,3 = 3 Successes !

Posted by: Muspellsheimr Feb 25 2010, 11:52 AM

So a while ago, I sent a PM to someone requesting an invite, & never got a response (or my email filtered the invite for some strange reason).

If anyone has an invite available, send me a message please.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Feb 25 2010, 02:54 PM

Buy buy Dice-y!

Posted by: Delarn Feb 25 2010, 08:20 PM

??? you don't like it ?

Posted by: Troll Bouncer Feb 25 2010, 11:40 PM

I'd like an invite if anyone has one available

ballzoutbouncer @ yahoo


Thanks in advance.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Feb 26 2010, 05:41 AM

Dice-y is good and all, Randomlee20 is just better.

Posted by: Draco18s Feb 27 2010, 06:15 AM

Sent

Posted by: phillosopherp Mar 6 2010, 02:05 AM

If anyone is actually running a game through wave let me know, I just got in and would like to see what it does

Posted by: Toxic Summon Mar 11 2010, 12:55 AM

This looks very intriguing. Can someone send me an invite please? I'd be very grateful.

my e-mail is: imperialdigimon at yahoo.com

Posted by: Toxic Summon Mar 11 2010, 06:33 PM

Thanks to whomever sent me the invite!

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Mar 12 2010, 03:13 AM

No problem.

Posted by: phillosopherp Mar 16 2010, 06:16 AM

so does anyone actually have a game going? I am desperately looking for a Shadowrun game!

Posted by: Crank Mar 17 2010, 06:57 PM

Yeah, I'm running one over Wave at the moment.

For those that are wondering how well it works for SR games, I really like it myself. I would definitely not try to use it in a live game chat type game, you have to use it in a play by post style game. One of Wave's problems is that the waves start to get really slow when viewing, scrolling, and especially typing in them. You have to break them off and create new ones about every 100 responses or so, but sometimes sooner.

I like Wave because I can maintain separate waves for each PC, one for in character and one for out. I maintain about 15 waves dedicated to that one game, which might be more than some people would like. Obviously that wouldn't work in a forum setting unless it was your own forum.

Posted by: Belvidere Apr 11 2010, 04:17 AM

If any invites are still floating around, I'd love to get my hands on one.

twizjsly@yahoo.com

Please and thanks!

Posted by: Draco18s Apr 11 2010, 04:50 AM

Done

Posted by: DVSman Apr 18 2010, 05:53 AM

I just got 25 "wave" invites so if anyone needs a wave-vite let me know. Also if anyone is running a game that wouldn't mind me eavesdropping in on it, send me a note. I am curious how the mechanics of SR are being run on a wave and wouldn't mind seeing it in action "live" so to speak. Thanks!

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 18 2010, 03:57 PM

My group has been testing Exalted via Wave, and we're also using it to coordinate our Shadowrun game. It suffers from all the above problems: quickly gets clunky and slow, not really 'there' when it comes to chat-replacement, etc. I agree, too, that it works best when you act like it's a more fluid Google Docs, which is Wave's real intended purpose, I'm told.

The problem with both SR and Exalted is that there are a lot of back and forth rolls in pretty quick succession, such as the attack-dodge-resist-knockdown sequence. The real beauty of Wave is it's ability to emulate PBEM or PBForum, so that people don't have to be connected in real time, but these kind of games bog that down a bit.

I, too, found that Random Lee Twenty was the best fit for Shadowrun, though I like Dicey for Exalted.

Finally, Wave recently added built-in email notifications, which is handy for anyone not logging in all the time, or sitting at a computer with a running Wave Notifier.

Posted by: Seriphen Apr 19 2010, 04:40 AM

I am also interested in playing by Wave or just sitting in and watching if someone wouldn't mind. I also have 25 invites left for anyone who would also like to try it.

Posted by: Dr. Funkenstein Apr 19 2010, 12:07 PM

Keep in mind that they're basically just creating an engine. When they're done, other companies (including virtual tabletop RPG designers) will be able to use it as part of their applications. While I don't care for it in and of itself as its currently presented, it does have some interesting ideas and applications.

I just find it humorous that it's basically a throwback to the old BBS days of chatting with the sysops and other users. I actually miss that quite a bit. Instant messengers just aren't the same.

Posted by: DamienKnight Apr 28 2010, 01:23 PM

In a play by post game, I recommend attacks go like this:

I am attacking the Goon. I have 4 skill + Smartlink + 5 agility. My weapon is an ares predator 5P DV -1 AP

At that point the GM resolves that portion of combat, including the players attack roll, the goons dodge roll, and the goons Resist (and knockdown if in 3rd edition).

That will cut down on the back-and-forth quite a bit.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Apr 30 2010, 12:47 AM

Why have the GM do the attack roll?

Actually, this is a bad example—attack is rolled by the attacker, and then dodge-resist-knockdown are all rolled by the target without needing to wait on anything by the attacker (unless the attacker is a Great Dragon or Horror with the power to interfere with the target's rolls). A better example is attacks that cost a Simple Action, where in most cases (not throwing a grenade or using a Launch Weapon) if the game isn't playing strictly the attacker can and should wait on the results of the first action (a quick look-up indicates that Declare Actions should come strictly before Resolve Actions, but this seems to often be missed).

~J

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Apr 30 2010, 01:56 AM

In any PBP (play by post) campaign where communal dice programs are not free available, it is always a good idea for the GM to roll everything. This keeps things fair (unless you GM wants lots of TPKs and in such case the GM will find he has no players soon enough).

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 30 2010, 02:57 AM

Well, the Random Lee Twenty bot is fine for fair dice, but I think the point of the GM rolling was to speed up combat in a non-realtime medium. You're right that it's not a great fix, but it's tough. The use of multiple actions based on contingent results, as you suggest, are exactly what I'm talking about when I say SR is tough on PbP-style media.

Posted by: Crank Apr 30 2010, 03:55 AM

My group uses Shadowroller for our rolls. Just follow the following steps:

• In editing mode, click "Add Gadget by URL" on the toolbar;
• Into the field "Gadget URL", paste this url: http://shadowroller.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/shadowroller.xml
• Click on "Add" button (the gadget will be directly inserted into your blip).

Posted by: Delarn Apr 30 2010, 03:56 PM

I use Randomleetwenty@appspot.com

Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 6 2010, 03:23 AM

So much for that. Guess it's time to see if they open-sourced enough server code for a private Wave.

~J

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Aug 6 2010, 01:51 PM

Unfortunately Google Wave has been cancelled due to a lack of interest. I still have 8 invites if people want to check it out before it fades from existence though.

Posted by: Draco18s Aug 6 2010, 04:11 PM

I'm not surprised at all. People don't want to combine email, IM, and collaborative editing. Collaborative editing on email is just a disaster ("Here, let me just re-write what you said, then when Jon get it...").

I also disliked the "see as you type" thing. I like to keep my IMs to myself (and forum posts, etc.) so I can edit out spelling errors and incoherent thoughts (as well as inflammatory remarks).

Now, if they'd just marketed it as a collaborative editing tool, it might have gone somewhere (then again, maybe not, because the market for that is really small).

Posted by: Yerameyahu Aug 6 2010, 06:52 PM

Well, they didn't really market it at all. People who looked at it understood that it *was* a collaborative document tool. You're right, the email/IM 'replacement' aspect of it confused people, and was clunky. For me, a big problem was the development timeline. It took forever to get email notification (which was never very *good*), and it was always slow and crashy. These kinds of things should have been fixed much earlier.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Aug 6 2010, 07:30 PM

May of the tools in Wave I thought were good (even the collaborative editing of emails). I think that the biggest problem was that Wave was a great solution for a problem that doesn't exist. The second issue I found was that you had to invite people to use Wave. If everyone with a Google account had a Wave account, then adoption would have been a lot faster IMHO. The only good thing is that some of the features in Wave will be implemented in other Google products (most likely Buzz and Google Docs).

Posted by: Draco18s Aug 9 2010, 03:09 PM

Good point. And you couldn't even add people who had a wave account to a wave unless they were in your contacts list.
Which you couldn't add anyone with a wave account without first adding their gmail account to your gmail contacts list.



Speaking of Buzz. WTF is Buzz?

Its like a MyFace wall, only in Gmail:
Completely and uttery fucking useless and a complete waste of time. Why do I want to see what these random* --ers type out?

*By random I do mean random. Gmail basically had me auto-watch anyone in my contacts list (basically anyone who I'd ever exchanged emails with, including people on the L4D Mapper's Mailing List) who had a Gmail account.

Posted by: Platinum Aug 9 2010, 04:42 PM

Google wave was awesome for document revisions and collaboration. Like working with a consultant. You can playback reviews from start to finish. That is awesome for business customers.

It never took off because

1. It wasn't really intuitive
2. way too slow, and crashed often
3. required you to download the chrome framework
4. didn't integrate well with messengers or email like they said it would
5. writing an app was a huge pain, and they didn't have enough widgets to make it worth it.

Google wave opened up to anyone months ago. The problem was that anyone who was once interested would not return. You didn't need an invite. Not only that, they didn't refresh invites often enough, because everything was way too slow.

Buzz was a colossal disaster. They implemented it without anyone's permission or sufficient testing, to a market that was already dominated. Many people's safety was threatened by their breach of privacy.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Aug 9 2010, 04:43 PM

Buzz is Google's attempt to emulate Twitter/Facebook/Myspace. Will it be successful? I don't know. I know that it helps me keep track of my RPG groups (specificly updates from my GM). It is as close to a Twitter experience that I want to be (I don't have a Twitter account, I won't get a Twitter account, I don't like Twitter).

Posted by: Yerameyahu Aug 9 2010, 04:57 PM

Meh. I don't mind Buzz or anything about its launch. I also don't *use* it, because my social groups don't. No critical mass, no Buzz.

Posted by: Draco18s Aug 9 2010, 05:20 PM

Oh god, I just realized that my coworkers and I were all following each other (not that any of us use it).
Seriously. Do not want auto-follow.

Edit:
Oh snap. There's a "Disable Google Buzz" in Gmail settings.

Posted by: Dumori Aug 11 2010, 11:51 PM

I've found buzz relatively ok I have a few writer mates the blogg with blogger so buzz helps with following them. My own blogg will be up as soon as I type up my work.