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Dumpshock Forums _ Community Projects _ Chummer Character Generator

Posted by: Nebular Apr 2 2011, 06:31 PM

Hi all,

I've been working on a character generator since late-December 2010 and have released it for all Runner to use.

I have two main goals for Chummer. The first is to be a standard character generator that lets you create a character with the BP and Karma systems, then maintain them throughout their career with Karma. The other is to give GMs a tool where they can create their NPCs and have all of the information they need in just one place (like weapon damage, armor ratings, etc.) without having to flip through a bunch of sourcebooks during game play (this really bugged me when I was running some of the SR4 missions).

By default, only content from the Shadowrun 4th Edition book is shown. To use content from other sourcebooks, select Tools > Options and select the books you would like to use. This was done in case there are Game Masters or players that want to limit their character options to only certain books. The sourcebook changes do not take effect until you load or create a new character - if you have one currently open when you make this change, it won't pick up the change until you save and reload it.

Chummer's data is all stored in XML and allows players and GMs to create their own Skills, Vehicles, Weapons, Qualities, and other goodies by creating custom XML data files. Full documentation on the data files can be found in the http://www.chummergen.com/chummer/wiki/. Character sheets are also created using XSLT meaning that anyone can create their own custom character sheets with a little know-how.

This is a Windows application (Win XP/Vista/7) that requires http://www.microsoft.com/net/download.aspx installed. Unfortunately it does not currently work with Mono, however, recent testing has shown that it should be fully functional with their next public release.

You can grab Chummer from http://www.chummergen.com/dev/chummer/Chummer.zip. This file will be kept up-to-date with each release as well for those who are just joining the party.

Please post any feedback, bug reports, and the like here.

Thanks!

Posted by: Nebular Apr 9 2011, 07:33 PM

The preview copy of Chummer has been updated to build 36. You can update your copy of Chummer by going to the Tools menu and selecting Check for Updates. A bunch of new stuff has been added for this build.

Most saves from previous builds will not work with this build due to a number of underlying changes.


Posted by: ggodo Apr 11 2011, 05:05 PM

This thing's pretty sweet. I've been messing around with it a bit and I like the ability to ignore character creation rules, really nice for GMs making Prime Runners.

Posted by: Leoric Apr 11 2011, 07:34 PM

Hi!

Nice tool, I really like the GUI wich is very intuitive. Are you planning to support karma building system?

By the way, I found a bug, when trying to change grade for cyberware. I think it happens beacause I'm using a french version of .NET, and it might have something to do with the way fractions are handled. Here is the error message:

CODE
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.FormatException: Input string was not in a correct format.
at System.Number.ParseDouble(String value, NumberStyles options, NumberFormatInfo numfmt)
at System.Convert.ToDouble(String value)
at Chummer.frmSelectCyberware.cboGrade_SelectedIndexChanged(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ComboBox.OnSelectedIndexChanged(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ComboBox.WmReflectCommand(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ComboBox.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Chummer
Assembly Version: 0.0.0.36
Win32 Version: 0.0.0.36
CodeBase: file:///G:/JDR/Shadowrun/Chummer%20Chargen/Chummer.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.



Posted by: Nebular Apr 11 2011, 09:27 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated. I'll look into the changing Cyberware grade bug.

Once I have the core of the application done for creating characters from scratch using the BP system, I'm planning on adding the ability to maintain characters using Karma. I hadn't originally planned on doing it, but since improving a character with Karma and building a character from scratch with Karma, it should be doable since you're essentially improving a character from scratch. I am, however, noticing a discrepancy between the Karma cost for improving Attributes between SR4A, and SR4/Runner's Companion. Since Runner's Companion and SR4 both said it was originally New Rating x 3, and that SR4A replaces SR4, I'm assuming that SR4A's New Rating x 5 is the new "correct" formula.

The ability to print will be in the next release. Most of it is done but is being held up by vehicle weapons which I'm starting to work on tonight. Should be ready for this weekend.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 11 2011, 10:59 PM

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 11 2011, 01:34 PM) *
By the way, I found a bug, when trying to change grade for cyberware. I think it happens beacause I'm using a french version of .NET, and it might have something to do with the way fractions are handled.


Does this happen with all Cyberware, or only certain pieces? If I can get the name of one piece that causes this for you, that would be a big help. I'm assuming this is changing the grade after it has already been added to the character and not in the Select Cyberware window, correct?

Posted by: whatevs Apr 12 2011, 03:40 AM

This is really impressive. So many great things to rave about, and just a few very minor techinical things I noticed.

Things I like:
- generally, very very well thought out
- awesome use of xml. Now I can mod them to exclude things I don't use in my campaign (FFBA). Or if a new book comes out I can update on my own. Priceless functionality.
- very very smooth and responsive, great ui
- not bloated at all
- easy to install and maintain
- source book exclusion (also priceless)
- alphabetical order (also priceless)
- mount tracking for weapon accessories (under, barrel etc).

Techincal Suggestions:
- 'cancel button' in the 'choose bp amount' and 'select metatype' windows (when starting a new character)
- crtl-z support
- export to excel/csv
- in the' add gear' (or cyberware, or spell, or vehicle windows etc. etc. etc.), when I make a selection, it closes the window and forces me to start over . How about some kind of add to cart/queue functionality?
- armor encumberance calculation revision.
Unless I'm out to lunch, a body 3 character shouldn't be able to wear bike racing armor without a -1 penalty. Maximum armor rating (b or i) = body x2, bike racing armor i = 7. Penalty = –1 modifier
to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction thereof ) over <sr4a161>. My body 3 character is currenly wearing bike racing armor without the penalty. Don't get me wrong, I'm lovin it, just not sure if it's correct. Please let me know if I'm out to lunch.
- addition of 'natural' (first) language

Requests:
- list of pre-gen knoweldge skills to choose from, or better yet, the option to add my own to choose from <see 'awesome use of xml' above smile.gif>
- weapon modification support / vehicle modification support
- martial arts support (unless I missed something)
- ammunition for purchase somewhere in gear (unless I missed something)

Posted by: Nebular Apr 12 2011, 04:56 AM

Unfortunately I don't think I'll be supporting undo. There's an alarming about of complexity within the characters already. If I can figure out a way to work it in though, I will.

Looks like the armor encumbrance is a bug. It works if either is 8 but not 7, so I'm rounding the wrong way. And armor mods apparently aren't being counted. Whoops.

I managed to get the vehicle mods and vehicle weapons/weapon accessories/weapon mods done tonight, so they'll be in the next version.

Ammo is the next thing I'll be tackling. It will likely be part of the Gear section since it's fairly generic and doesn't need to be tied to a particular weapon.

I can take a look at exporting to Excel/CSV later on. How do you need it outputted? Do you have a sample file of how it should look?

FYI: At the moment the update is fairly basic when it comes to updating the XML files. If the new file has a higher version number than the old one it simply overwrite it, so any custom changes you've made will be lost. I'm going to be changing this later on so that it's a little more intelligent and won't destroy and customizations. You will basically be able to flag an entry as disable and/or custom.

Posted by: ggodo Apr 12 2011, 05:36 AM

I don't understand anything you're saying, but I love the work you do.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin Apr 12 2011, 05:40 AM

why not just have custom data written to a custom data xml file so that you don't have to worry about data being over written. If necessary you can have a custom_weapons.xml, custom_cyberware.xml, etc. if necessary or else just throw it in one custom.xml file with an extra tag as to which standard set of xml data it should be appended to on program launch?

Posted by: whatevs Apr 12 2011, 11:48 AM

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ Apr 12 2011, 05:40 AM) *
why not just have custom data written to a custom data xml file so that you don't have to worry about data being over written. If necessary you can have a custom_weapons.xml, custom_cyberware.xml, etc. if necessary or else just throw it in one custom.xml file with an extra tag as to which standard set of xml data it should be appended to on program launch?


Exactly. Don't worry about my xml customizations. I'll manage on my own. And i think it's reasonable that the user community does the same.

For the excel output, any sort of character sheet type export is fine. If you create a comma seperated summary of all the data, in text format, that should work nicely. Keep up the awesome work, impressive stuff.

One last thing i forgot to mention. You might also want to consider character portrait upload/ display. It migjt make export to excel a little more complicated though...




Posted by: Nebular Apr 12 2011, 06:09 PM

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ Apr 11 2011, 11:40 PM) *
why not just have custom data written to a custom data xml file so that you don't have to worry about data being over written. If necessary you can have a custom_weapons.xml, custom_cyberware.xml, etc. if necessary or else just throw it in one custom.xml file with an extra tag as to which standard set of xml data it should be appended to on program launch?
QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 12 2011, 05:48 AM) *
Exactly. Don't worry about my xml customizations. I'll manage on my own. And i think it's reasonable that the user community does the same.


I like it! Much easier to do things that way. Should be in for this weekend's update.

Posted by: Leoric Apr 13 2011, 06:37 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 12 2011, 12:59 AM) *
Does this happen with all Cyberware, or only certain pieces? If I can get the name of one piece that causes this for you, that would be a big help. I'm assuming this is changing the grade after it has already been added to the character and not in the Select Cyberware window, correct?


Nope, this happens for every implant, cyber & bioware, while in the select cyberware window.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 13 2011, 02:48 PM

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 13 2011, 01:37 AM) *
Nope, this happens for every implant, cyber & bioware, while in the select cyberware window.


Edit: I can reproduce the issue by changing my regional setting to French. I'm hoping to have this fixed for the next preview release.

Posted by: erendor Apr 13 2011, 06:54 PM

This topic provides the impetus to sign up to dumpshock! Just wanted to say - very nice work, keep it up! Looking forward to each update wink.gif.

Things I noticed, that you are probably already aware of:

-No helmets under armor.
-No Custom Cyberlimb section

Posted by: Nebular Apr 13 2011, 10:11 PM

Helmets are a little wacky since they're technically not pieces of armor on their own. They are, instead, treated as armor modifications which improve an existing piece of Armor's ratings. Once you add a piece of Armor, you can select it and choose Add Armor Mod which will show you the list of Armor Mods available. From there you can pick a helmet. You'll also find the SecureTech and various other Armor Mods from Arsenal in there.

I completely forgot about Customzed Cyberlimbs! I'll add these in for the next preview release. They'll be handed as plugins for a piece of Cyberware in the same was as Cyberlimb Enhancements and be a part of the same category.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 14 2011, 01:49 AM

Seems like you're going to be busy nebular, maybe a victim of your own success. That being said... Thought of another suggestion. smile.gif

Armor encumberance is currently calculated based on all of the the armor you've chosen. So it turns into a problemif you want to work with different armor sets at different times. Maybe a 'calculate encumberance' checkbox
Beside each armor item?




Posted by: Nebular Apr 14 2011, 02:56 AM

That's an interesting idea for Armor. I've noticed with entering some of the characters from SR4A for testing that they had multiple piece of armor that put them way over and thought it was a little strange. I'll have to look into this as well.

Finally found the fix for Leoric's issue so that will be in for the next preview release too. Silly me thought that things would be intelligent enough to recognise "," as a decimal separator in regions where it was used. Apparently I was wrong. smile.gif

Posted by: Nebular Apr 15 2011, 10:05 PM

Big honkin' update this week

Build 42
in order to download and install the character sheet properly, please follow one of the follow two steps:



On to the actual updated stuff:

Posted by: erendor Apr 16 2011, 04:51 AM

Very nice! Using it already! biggrin.gif

One thing I'd like to see, if possible - clicking Add&More keeping your current category of items open. I was adding Matrix programs and clicking Add&More brought me back to Ammunition every time.

Oh, and a build point total! The list of build points and where they were spent is very helpful, but I'm hopeless at math and contacts and skills tend to introduce complications. (i.e 12 points of contacts, 42 of skills, -35 for negative attributes...)

Posted by: Nebular Apr 16 2011, 04:10 PM

Found a couple of minor things that I couldn't let go un-fixed, so I fixed 'em. A few new additions are thrown in since they were what I was working on last night.

Build 43


Posted by: LonePaladin Apr 16 2011, 05:29 PM

Can you adjust the interface for odd window sizes? When I run this on my netbook (which has a 1024 x 600 display), a lot of the elements end up running off the edges of the screen.

Specific examples:



I've also noticed that Rigger Adaptation isn't available for vehicles without enabling the Arsenal sourcebook.

Since ammunition is specific to weapon categories (i.e., ammo for heavy pistols can't be used in light pistols), you might want to include a way to account for this.

I'm going to see how well this handles the numbers for the PCs in my group, to see if anything else comes out odd. This looks very promising -- I've been hoping a decent character-generator would turn up. Keep up the good work!

Posted by: whatevs Apr 16 2011, 11:09 PM

Xml driven character generator = awsome
Customizable character sheets via xsl = value of half the tea in china. Nonono, change that to ALL the tea in china!

This is inspired stuff. Well done!

I hate to cheapen my cudos with another request... But how about some mentor spirit support? Maybe with a list to choose from and appropriate modifiers?

Posted by: whatevs Apr 17 2011, 03:42 AM

Noticed that there was another update recently (awesome stuff!), thought I'd flag some things for you quickly and provide a few more suggestions (you must be tired of them by now, but anyways...).

Issues:

1.) Enemies Max BP - I chose Vendetta and Wanted, plus 3 Enemies: 4/4, 3/3, 3/3. Then I added an additional enemy (which it shouldn't have let me do because I was at max). Then I clicked incidence from 1 to 2. Got 35bp limit error message, then got unhandled exception error.

2.) Armor / Clothing Combinations - I chose and equipped the Zoé Long Jacket, Plain Blouse/Shirt and Skirt/Trousers, and only got the b and i ratings of the Long Jacket. Looks the 'ballistic armor' and 'impact armor' values (in the 'other' tab, beside the 'build point summary' tab) are only giving the higest ratings of the three pieces, as opposed to combining them. Arsenal pg. 45. Suspect this is the same for Berwick Line and Steampunk line combinable items as well.

3.) FFBA - FFBA is effected in the same way as above. Also it looks as though encumburance isn't halved for FFBA as it should be. So right now, ffba is functioning as just another piece of armor. I'm not sure how you want to mitigate this. You could try having ffba in the armor mod list as well as the regular armor list.

4.) The Zoé line Long and Short Jackets aren't allowed to be equipped at the same time. Not sure if this is a major thing. Just FYI. Same thing with the Steampunk Corset and Gown. Also the Synergist Suit Jacket, Short Jacket, Longcoat. Also the mortimer/beriwck Suit Jacket and Dinner Jacket

5.) 'Equipped' Checkbox on Armor Mods - Should some armor mods not have the 'equipped' checkbox? I'm pretty sure that Ruthenium Coating can't be removed. Gel Packs could be removed I suppose, but an interesting question.

6.) Initiative - The 'initiative' value (in the 'other' tab, beside the 'build point' summary tab) doesn't seem to drop below 4 for the purposes of calculating encumburance, regardless of how many pieces of armor I choose or equip.


Suggestions:

Option to add Link from enemies and contacts to chummer character files for those enemies and contacts (they should be fleshed out characters afterall)

Flag indicating if an armor item would cause encumburance based on bod attribute. Example: Racing Bike Armor needs a bod of 4 to wear without negatives

Accomodating House Rules - Example: CHA x 2 of free contacts. These sorts of house rules are everywhere. Some can be accomodated by modifying your XML datafiles (thanks again btw), but it might be worth digging to find out what the most common ones are.

Accomodating The Most Used Optional Rules - Example: Maximum Armor Modifications. pg44 arsenal. Ditto above.

A Section for user inputted notes for gear items. If you have a piece of armor for example, and want to describe it.

A 'Character Description' sheet somewhere. With drop down items for things like:
Eye Color
Height
Weight
Skin Tone/Hue:
Hair Color:
Hair Length:
Character Portrait: (with upload function)
Character Description:
Character Background:
Age:
Sex:
Concept:

KarmaGen Character Building. This is probably a huge amount of work though.

Display Page Numbers and book names for the gear items. This is also probably a huge amount of work.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 17 2011, 08:09 AM

All good suggestions. The resolution problem will be fixed in the next preview release, along with Rigger Adaptation, the Weapon Mount, Enemy BP error, and whatever else makes the cut for next weekend. Friday is a long weekend here, so I'm hoping that ends up being a stupidly productive day. biggrin.gif

whatevs: it looks like the Armor Encumbrance for the Initiative situation you mentioned is being calculated correctly from my understanding of the rules. If I have a character with BOD 1, REA 5, INT 4 and put enough armor on him to effectively drop his REA to 1, his INI should still be 5 (1 REA + 4 INT). The way it's written makes it sound as though your INI decreases by your REA went down. You character is still intelligent enough to act, but too overburdened with their poor armor choice to be as effective. I think the "may affect Initiative" bit of text is in the description since you could have a character with 1 REA, in which case your INI would not be affected. Is this correct?

Posted by: Leoric Apr 17 2011, 01:13 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 16 2011, 12:05 AM) *
[*]regions that use something other than "." to separate decimal places no longer causes errors when using numbers with decimals


Nice! It corrected the bug I was talking about, thanks!

I'm going to play around with your Chargen to see if i can find other bugs/suggestion, but I already love it, and the charsheet is neat!

Posted by: ShadowWalker Apr 17 2011, 05:38 PM

When I select File-New from the menu the screen I get has it's buttons showing up almost completely below the bottom of the window.
I'm using Windows 7.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 17 2011, 06:13 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 16 2011, 11:09 PM) *
I hate to cheapen my cudos with another request... But how about some mentor spirit support? Maybe with a list to choose from and appropriate modifiers?


Put some xml nodes together that might help out with the above request. Figured why not share the fun. I'm not sure how you'd want to calculate the appropriate modifiers in Chummer itself, but here's the xml nodes.
[ Spoiler ]


Posted by: whatevs Apr 17 2011, 06:20 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 17 2011, 08:09 AM) *
whatevs: it looks like the Armor Encumbrance for the Initiative situation you mentioned is being calculated correctly from my understanding of the rules. If I have a character with BOD 1, REA 5, INT 4 and put enough armor on him to effectively drop his REA to 1, his INI should still be 5 (1 REA + 4 INT). The way it's written makes it sound as though your INI decreases by your REA went down. You character is still intelligent enough to act, but too overburdened with their poor armor choice to be as effective. I think the "may affect Initiative" bit of text is in the description since you could have a character with 1 REA, in which case your INI would not be affected. Is this correct?


Looks that way. Good call! Forgot about intuition being part of initiative.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 17 2011, 06:31 PM

Quick Note About your Tooltip for Ballistic and Impact Armor - Your tooltip says that there's a -1 to agility, might want to add that there's a - 1 to rea as well. Not major though, as per your post above, it looks as though it's being calculated correctly.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 17 2011, 07:19 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 12 2011, 03:40 AM) *
Requests:
- list of pre-gen knoweldge skills to choose from, or better yet, the option to add my own to choose from <see 'awesome use of xml' above smile.gif>


Okay, working on some xml nodes for the above request. It won't be this weekend, but I should be able to provide a nice list. Here's a languages list. I used (mostly) the list of 100 most common languages on wikipedia. P.S. Spoiler code tags aren't working in my browser for some reason, and I'm out of time, so sorry in advance for the wall of text. Edit: Ah, that's better
[ Spoiler ]

Posted by: Nebular Apr 18 2011, 03:40 AM

Thanks for the data, whatevs. I've rolled the Language stuff into skills.xml. No idea why I didn't see just putting Knowledge Skill stuff in there before. Sometimes it's the obvious stuff that's hard to see. smile.gif I'm hoping to get Mentor Spirits in for this weekend, too.

Here's how I've setup the Knowledge Skills.

CODE
<chummer>
<skills>
... existing content ...
</skills>
<knowledgeskills>
<skill>
<name>Xiang</name>
<attribute>INT</attribute>
<category>Language</category>
<default>No</default>
<skillgroup />
<specs>
<spec>Read/Write</spec>
<spec>Speak</spec>
<spec>Dialect</spec>
<spec>Lingo</spec>
</specs>
</skill>
</knowledgeskills>
</chummer>

Posted by: whatevs Apr 18 2011, 06:02 PM

Looks good, are you all set with the different specializations? I think you used <spec></spec> in your original skills xml. I used that format above, so you should be able to cut/copy/paste if you want to.

Posted by: Bigity Apr 18 2011, 06:48 PM

CODE
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at Chummer.ImprovementManager.CreateImprovements(ImprovementSource objImprovementSource, String strSourceName, XmlNode nodBonus, Boolean blnConcatSelectedValue, Int32 intRating, String strFriendlyName)
at Chummer.frmCreate.cmdAddPower_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.225 (RTMGDR.030319-2200)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Chummer
Assembly Version: 0.0.0.43
Win32 Version: 0.0.0.43
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/stuart/Documents/Shadowrun/chummer%20chargen/Chummer.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

Was toying around with an ork adept, was spending power points. Everything was fine until I tried to add Enchanced Perception.



Posted by: Nebular Apr 18 2011, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 18 2011, 01:02 PM) *
Looks good, are you all set with the different specializations? I think you used <spec></spec> in your original skills xml. I used that format above, so you should be able to cut/copy/paste if you want to.


Yup, the specs are great. I used everything you provided. I just did a straight copy of everything you gave me and pasted in the few replacements once I realised I can just put them all in the skills.xml file. I did a straight copy with the Mentors and added in the Toxic Mentors as well. smile.gif

Posted by: Nebular Apr 18 2011, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (Bigity @ Apr 18 2011, 01:48 PM) *
CODE
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at Chummer.ImprovementManager.CreateImprovements(ImprovementSource objImprovementSource, String strSourceName, XmlNode nodBonus, Boolean blnConcatSelectedValue, Int32 intRating, String strFriendlyName)
at Chummer.frmCreate.cmdAddPower_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.225 (RTMGDR.030319-2200)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Chummer
Assembly Version: 0.0.0.43
Win32 Version: 0.0.0.43
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/stuart/Documents/Shadowrun/chummer%20chargen/Chummer.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

Was toying around with an ork adept, was spending power points. Everything was fine until I tried to add Enchanced Perception.


Doh! This'll be fixed in the new preview release.

Posted by: Leoric Apr 18 2011, 09:26 PM

Synthecardium essence cost is wrong: 1 per level instead of 0,1.
Same for Synaptic booster: 5 per level instead of 0,5.
Quite invasive! nyahnyah.gif

And I didn't found how to split magic and adept powers for a mystic adept.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 19 2011, 12:14 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 18 2011, 07:08 PM) *
Yup, the specs are great. I used everything you provided. I just did a straight copy of everything you gave me and pasted in the few replacements once I realised I can just put them all in the skills.xml file. I did a straight copy with the Mentors and added in the Toxic Mentors as well. smile.gif


Nice! Forgot about them. Are you going to be able to add the mentor bonuses on the back end?

I'll send a list of some usefull knowledge skills in noded-up xml format.


Posted by: Nebular Apr 19 2011, 12:29 AM

Can't handle +X dice for casting Spells at the moment. Not sure if this is something I'll be throwing in just yet. I'm looking at getting support in for the +X bonuses to Skills for Mentor Spirits though. It might make it into this weekend's update but not 100% certain.

Leoric: I have that ESS bit fixed up which will be in this weekend's update. This only applied to Cyberware/Bioware that let you pick a Rating and have their ESS cost tied to it... in regions that use "," to separate decimals places. smile.gif

The original intention with Mystic Adepts was to simply leave it as is. Whatever you don't spend on Adept Power Points is what you presumably have leftover to work with the Magcian. I'm now seeing a fault in my thinking after re-reading the Mystic Adept portion though (and having never played a Mystic Adept now that I think back). A Mystic Adept with MAG 5 who puts 3 of those into Powers and uses the rest for Magician would effectively have MAG 2 for the purposes of determine their Ability bonus for Skills. This seems to only affect dice pool though and nothing else. Is that correct?

Posted by: whatevs Apr 19 2011, 02:58 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 19 2011, 12:29 AM) *
Can't handle +X dice for casting Spells at the moment. Not sure if this is something I'll be throwing in just yet. I'm looking at getting support in for the +X bonuses to Skills for Mentor Spirits though. It might make it into this weekend's update but not 100% certain.


One of the things about mentor bonuses is that they're basically free skill specializations. Ex. +2 detection spells is really just a detection specialization of the spellcasting skill. So if you can trigger the addition of a specialization (even if there's already one added by the user) when you select a mentor spirit, you're in business. All you have to watch out for is the same specialization already being there, in which case there would just be two specializations for that skill at +4 total. Also, you would have to let users add another specialization for the affected skill (in this case spellcasting) via the skills window.

Some mentors have negatives that aren't abstract, and will require a negative modifier ex. -1 to combat spells. In this case, the same logic applies but with a -1 as a specialization 'bonus'. Rules about user still being able to add specializations to the affect skill via skills menu would still need to apply.

Hope this helps! And thanks for being so responsive!

Posted by: whatevs Apr 19 2011, 05:34 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 18 2011, 03:40 AM) *
Here's how I've setup the Knowledge Skills.
<chummer>
<skills>
... existing content ...
</skills>
<knowledgeskills>
<skill>
<name>Xiang</name>
<attribute>INT</attribute>
<category>Language</category>
<default>No</default>
<skillgroup />
<specs>
<spec>Read/Write</spec>
<spec>Speak</spec>
<spec>Dialect</spec>
<spec>Lingo</spec>
</specs>
</skill>
</knowledgeskills>
</chummer>


One quick thing, I've notices that you don't have a skill group defined for the knowledge skills (skillgroup />). Shouldn't they be set up as Street, Academic, Professional and Interest?

Posted by: Nebular Apr 19 2011, 12:55 PM

They're not technically Skill Groups in the same way as Active Skills (you can't take the Language Skill Group and get Rating X in all Languages), so I put that into Category. So the Category for Knowledge Skills can be "Academic", "Interest", "Language", "Professional", and "Street".

Posted by: whatevs Apr 19 2011, 03:08 PM

Sounds good, ive got a list of around 30-40 knowledge skills with specs on it's way.

Posted by: LonePaladin Apr 19 2011, 04:24 PM

Something odd I've noticed here. When you're adding knowledge skills to a character, after the fifth entry it puts a gap between #5 and #6. It keeps doing this, with the gap getting larger each time you add something new.

Also, the armored clothing packages from Arsenal aren't adding together properly. I expect this one is tricky to handle, though.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 19 2011, 04:56 PM

I believe I have the Arsenal Clothing stuff figured out and implemented. It should be in the next preview release. The Knowledge Skill one kind of hurts my brain - you'd think a position of 0 would be a fixed location, but apparently not. nyahnyah.gif It should be fixed in the next release as well.

Shadowalker: I'm hoping your problem is fixed in the next release as well. This might be a part of the resolution issues I was having.

Posted by: LonePaladin Apr 19 2011, 05:49 PM

More suggestions and/or observations.


Posted by: TheIggle Apr 19 2011, 06:04 PM

on a side note, how about making this program open source? that way the community can continue updating/porting it should you lose interest or get sued by catalyst labs^^

Posted by: whatevs Apr 19 2011, 07:20 PM

QUOTE (TheIggle @ Apr 19 2011, 07:04 PM) *
on a side note, how about making this program open source? that way the community can continue updating/porting it should you lose interest or get sued by catalyst labs^^


Lol, or hold onto it in case catylst wants to buy it. Open source would be cool though.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 19 2011, 07:52 PM

I tend to avoid making my stuff open source after a number of bad experiences with it. I like the idea, but I'm a little protective of my code and like to know where everything is and what it's doing. Too many times I've had people go in and just make a bunch of changes for some unknown reason without discussing the impacts, breaking a bunch of things in the process, and writing it in some wacky way instead of following a standard.

I can, however, promise that if I ever lose interest and/or stop developing this and/or get smacked by Catalyst that I will release the source code so that others can continue the work. smile.gif

Posted by: Beetle Apr 20 2011, 09:21 PM

I found a small bug in the qualities section. When selecting the Lucky quality, it isn't increasing the maximum edge attribute. Also edge is incorrectly listed under the Exceptional Attribute quality, but it does increase the edge maximum properly as if one had the Lucky quality. It's not a big deal to me as the qualities cost the same, but it's something I wanted to point out.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 20 2011, 09:39 PM

Much appreciated. I'll have these fixed for this weekend's update.

Posted by: Beetle Apr 21 2011, 12:53 AM

I also noted that Edge, Magic and Resonance are being thrown into the mix with Physical & Mental when limiting the attribute maximums at character creation. I could have a 6 edge or 6 magic, but not both. Or say I maxed out my strength and if I tried to max out edge/resonance/magic, it would return an error.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 21 2011, 02:19 AM

Okay, here's the knowledge skills as promised. This is probably the section that people will get the most value out of moding, but here's a starting list if you want it.

[ Spoiler ]

Posted by: Nebular Apr 21 2011, 02:28 AM

The EDG/MAG/RES maximums are cleaned up will be in this weekend's update.

Thanks a bunch for the list of Skills, whatevs. This will certainly give people something to start with for Knowledge Skills! biggrin.gif

Posted by: whatevs Apr 21 2011, 12:07 PM

Well, some of them might be a little too broad as per RAW but if anyone doesn't like 'em all theyhave to do is mod the .xml. So everyone wins as far as I can tell.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 22 2011, 12:57 PM

Came across some small things with gear:

- In Tasers, the Defiance Protector has a built-in Geko Grip and Top Mounted Laser Sight. I successfully added the Laser Sight in the XML, but no luck with the Geko Grip. ARS Pg20
- Would it be possible to include a list of weapon accessories included with each weapon in the add weapon window? (before you choose the weapon)
- That being said, any plans to support weapon modifications as apposed to weapon accessories in the future?

Posted by: Nebular Apr 22 2011, 03:25 PM

Well, since Vehicle Weapons were really just standard Weapons with the Mods piece stacked on top, changing it so that any Weapon could have a Mod was s snap. Everything you listed there will be in the next update. smile.gif

Posted by: whatevs Apr 22 2011, 04:17 PM

Sick! This thing is already the best, and most flexible, char generator around (in my opinion). Can't wait for the next update!

Posted by: Nebular Apr 22 2011, 11:30 PM

QUOTE (LonePaladin @ Apr 19 2011, 12:49 PM) *
More suggestions and/or observations.
  • The list of purchased items could stand to have a couple extra columns; definitely one showing the price, perhaps also one for the items' ratings. Same goes for augmentations, perhaps with an Essence cost as well.


Just to fill you in: I spent all of the day trying to get this to work with Cyberware using a 3rd party control. It had a few issues like being an absolute headache to work with, and changing the grade caused it to select Standard as the default (that wasn't a real problem since you could still correctly choose the grade you wanted, but it could lead to accidental grade changes). The other major problem with this is that none of the ones let you mix different types of information. Not a big deal for Cyberware since Cyberware plugins are just other pieces of Cyberware. It becomes a show-stopper, however, when you work with Weapons which are made up of Weapon, Weapon Accessories, and Weapon Modifications, and Vehicles which are made up of Vehicles, Vehicle Modifications, Weapons, Weapon Accessories, and Weapon Modifications.

Long and short of it all: While I really liked how it looked, it doesn't look like it will work with Chummer since I need to mix different objects. frown.gif

Posted by: Nebular Apr 23 2011, 03:44 AM

As promised, here's this weekend's update. Just run Chummer's update and grab everything there.

Build 51


Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin Apr 23 2011, 02:18 PM

Playing around with it this morning everything is looking good so far but I noticed a couple things I'd like to see added.

1. Source Book and Page information (I don't know if this shows up on the character sheet but it would be nice to be listed when deciding if you want to add an item). If its not on the character sheet it would be nice for certain items, especially spells and spirits.

2. Going through the Knowledge skills, it would be nice if the drop down box on the right that lets you select Academic, Interest, Language, etc filtered the items selectable on the left so that if you select Languages on the right only languages show up in the left side drop down box.

3. Unless I'm missing something I don't see a way to designate a Language as "Native"

Keep up the good work.

Posted by: Bigity Apr 23 2011, 02:27 PM

Also, the knowledge skill 'Italian' is listed twice, probably in the xml file that way.

I also noticed the Native language designation not being there, but figured that was intentional as someone could just note their native language.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 23 2011, 03:19 PM

Sourcebook and page number for all items (gear, spells, powers, qualities, etc) are listed on the character sheet. I'll look at adding them to the appropriate places in the application as well. Another one of those seemingly obvious things that I've overlooked. smile.gif

The tooltip for Knowledge Skills quickly mentions how to set a native language (not the best place for it). Since Languages are Skills like everything else, and Ratings don't allow "N" as a value because they require a number, a native language simply has a Rating of 0 (since it doesn't actually cost you any BP). On the printed character sheet, it appears properly with a Rating of "N". As I'm typing this, I now realise I can put "N" beside the number field that shows the total pool size to make this much clearer. This will be in the next update.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 23 2011, 11:55 PM

Look at that list of updates. Just awesome stuff. Havn't had time to do some testing yet, but in response to concerns above what about a seperate section (and maybe seperate xml) for languages?

P.s. Thanks for the shout out regarding the knowledge skills. You're doing all the heavy lifting though, hope everyone using chummer recognizes your time investment.

Posted by: Argent Apr 24 2011, 01:53 AM

Kudos on the character generator. Got one thing that needs fixing though. Genetic Optimization raises natural max attribute by one for a specific physical or mental attribute (Augmentation pg.89). Currently it does not allow you to pick an associated attribute and does not raise the natural maximum for any of the attributes. Great work so far!

Posted by: Nebular Apr 24 2011, 07:30 AM

Thanks. The Genetic Optimization change will be in the next update. I'm planning on doing another one some time Sunday afternoon or evening (today Sunday, not next week Sunday) to address a problem I found with Bioware (turns out it was marking itself a Cyberware in the background and causing Improvements to become permanent after some changes I made in Friday night's release). Won't be much in the update since I was out of town for the better part of the day, but there's a few small additions that will make some people happy. smile.gif

Posted by: Nebular Apr 24 2011, 08:15 PM

As promised, here's today's update. A little more than I thought there'd be since I realised I forgot about Sapients, Infected, and Shapeshifters. There will be no support for A.I. or Free Spirit characters since they break most of character creation rules and do things in their own way.

Build 53


Posted by: Nebular Apr 25 2011, 02:09 AM

One last update this weekend to fix a rather embarrassing problem with accidentally resetting Attributes for non-Humans, and the fun bonus of building characters with Karma (building, not maintaining - that's coming later)! Still need to add support for Initiation and Immersion, but the rest of it works!

Build 54


Posted by: Argent Apr 25 2011, 02:29 AM

You are really on fire with these updates. OK so i have other issues.

1: Your current attribute/max attribute (aug max attribute) display is keying me onto a problem. The current attribute will not go beyong 9 even when the augmented max attribute allows you to. I am assuming that first number is your current total attribute including augmentations. I tested this on all the attributes to make sure it was not just a few that were weird.

2: With Metagenic Improvement you should end up with 2/7 (10) since it raises both your min and max natural attribute. Currently it only raises max only 1/7 (10).

3: Genetic Optimization as I read it, will increase your natural max by one and as a consequence raise your augmented max attribute, not actually raise them both by one... so you should see from the display change from 1/6 (9) to 1/7 (10).... 6+1=7...7*1.5 round down=10 instead of what is currently displayed 1/7 (11).... 7*1.5 =10+1=11. What is your interpretation? Does anyone else have input on this?

4: All the surge qualities are currently at 0 bps. Should be at 5/10/15 unless you have implemented something in the code for the extra positive and negative Bps it gives you. So for instance I picked Surge III (15) and Exeptional attribute (20) for a total of 35bps, then I cheese it out with Metagenic improvement (20) but essentially it is free because of the 30 extra Bps from the Surge III so the Qualities should display 35 but currently it displayes 40 instead. 20 for exceptional att, 0 for surge III, and 20 for metagenic improvement. The attribute display currently shows 1/8 (12) but should display 2/8 (12)

OK now for good measure we will cheese it out some more with genetic optimization. If we go with my interpretation which i think was the intent of the rule, then the display should finally read 2/9 (13) but currently it reads 1/9 (14). This includes Exeptional Attribute, Metagenic Improvement, and Genetic Optimization which are all compatable.

Hopefully this helps. Thanks again or all the dilligent work.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 25 2011, 04:14 AM

1: Yeah, I'm not entirely happy with how this is done either. It's a little confusing. I'm going to have to re-work this so it's easier to understand.

2: You're right. After I put in the support for affect an Attribute's Minimum value, I forgot to actually add this to the Quality. This will be in the next update.

3: Right again. When I corrected Augmented Maximum to be self-calculating, I forgot to remove the Augmented Maximum modifier from the quality, so it was correctly calculating itself as 10, then seeing it had a further +1 bonus and put that on top of everything else. Corrected in next update as well.

4: SURGE is an absolute pain to deal with. My line of thinking with the SURGE Qualities was to simply give them a BP cost equal to the Quality's cost plus the BP difference - effectively reimbursing you for what you spent. Now that I'm looking at it, I'm pretty sure I did the math wrong. This was REALLY screwing with my head and I don't know why. To complicate things even more, the Qualities you take from SURGE shouldn't actually count towards the BP limit for Positive and Negative Qualities. I think what I may end doing is just putting in additional Qualities that reimburse you for the BP expense and offset the Positive/Negative totals. I'm just not seeing another way around this that will work.

So you'd basically have the following Positive and Negative Qualities



So there would be Positive Qualities that refund BP, and Negative ones that cost BP. This would effectively negate the BP you spend/receive from purchasing the Qualities that SURGE says you need to take since they're technically supposed to be free, and would still accommodate you going over the required minimums, impacting the Positive/Negative Quality BP totals properly. These Offset Qualities would have a prerequisite of the matching SURGE Quality. Does this seem reasonable?

Posted by: Argent Apr 25 2011, 01:02 PM

I will preface this with the fact that I have limited knowledge in programming and do not know the limitations of .xml

Your solution would work as long as you make sure the positive metagenic qualities are -10/-20/-30 respectively and ensure that the user has to pick both the pos and neg qaulities and they must both match the chosen surge quality. This seems so manual though, your program is so much cooler than that, but a simple solution in the meantime.

The coolest way would be if you would only have to pick the surge quality. When this is done, both quality lists would dynamically populate with all the metagenic qualities which were not there before. In the build point summary display, either below or next to in parenthesis, a pos and neg metagenic quality title will be displayed with -10/-20/-30 and 5/10/15 respectively. As you pick metagenic qualities the goal will be to zero out those metagenic numbers. Text would be red or highlighted until that condition is met. Thus your total bp count for those metagenic qualities will not be affected.

Ok so as far as implementing, maybe you can give each quality two values. A normal value and a metagenic value. (Ex. Bilingual 5/0, Bicardiac 0/10) Then you write some sort of if statement:
If surge is selected and pos metagen bonus bp is less than zero
then add metagenic value to bonus
Otherwise add to quality bp total

Hopefully this makes sense.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 25 2011, 06:21 PM

Adding a whole bunch of extra support for either refunding BP in the background, giving everything 2 BP costs, or making some brute-force exceptions in the code for 3 Qualities that vary from the norm and aren't commonly used is something I'm trying to avoid (and one of the reasons I changed how Uneducated worked recently). I'd rather put in a solution that at least has some reusable code and that people can put to use in custom data files.

I had thought about a dynamic list of Qualities when I first built the list, but decided to go with the full list instead. If you know you want Quality X, you can always see it in the list. If you try to select it and don't meet the requirements, you're shown the list of other Qualities/Metatypes/Metavariants that you need to have to take it, so you can either take those Qualities, or back out and create your character with the correct Metatype rather than trying to guess that the requirements are. This is probably more helpful to GMs creating NPCs.

I do, however, like the idea of only having to select the one SURGE Quality. I think I may do a hybrid of these two solutions. Implement the Qualities I had outlined above, but add in support for saying if Quality X is selected, Quality Y and Z are automatically selected for you. This eliminates the need for people to know they need to select them (which admittedly isn't intuitive at all) and could be re-used in custom data files.

Posted by: Argent Apr 25 2011, 08:05 PM

Sounds good. Will keep you updated if I find any more discrepancies.

Posted by: Vulcanisik Apr 25 2011, 08:28 PM

I really love what you've done with this character generator! I've actually turned on a few of my friends to it as well. So far it's the most versatile and correct generator I've seen so far out there. I love the fact that you've included data from all of the books like Arsenal, Augmentation, Street Magic and so on. Makes it helpful for just testing out character builds.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 25 2011, 11:13 PM

Another one for good measure, 'cause the SURGE Quality thing and the Attribute layout were bugging me. smile.gif

Build 55


Posted by: Argent Apr 26 2011, 01:42 AM

Augmented attribute stops at (9) up until an augmented value of 12 then disapears totally once the augmented attribute reaches 13. The attributes are much better to understand now. Thanks.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 26 2011, 04:34 AM

Argh! Found that I'm capping Attributes at the Metatype Augmented Maximum, not its Total Augmented Maximum (which includes modifiers to the Metatype Augmented Maximum). Thankfully this only affects what's shown and not the save file. Also found that the Improved Physical Attribute Adept Power always uses a value of 1 instead of Rating.

I'm hoping to have Initiation and Submersion done by Wednesday night, so I'll probably have another update around then which will also fix the above blunders.

Also on the to do list is to re-do the sample characters from SR4A, enter the Sample Grunts from SR4A, and Contacts from Contacts and Adventures to put it through its paces and build up the base library of pre-built NPC save files for GMs.

I think the character generator portion itself is almost done with the exception of Initiation and Submersion. All of the Qualities, Gear, Ware, Weapons, Armor, Metatypes/Metavariants, Spells, Powers, Programs, Skills, Mentor Spirits, Martial Arts, and Foci support that I can find are there. I hope I haven't overlooked anything. Once those missing pieces are done and there's been some time to make sure no funny quirks pop up, I'll be moving on to writing the stuff to maintain characters through their career. The core stuff needs to be done and working before I'm ready to move on to that though, so if I've overlooked anything for building a character from scratch, now's the time to tell me. smile.gif

Posted by: Leoric Apr 26 2011, 12:20 PM

Very Nice release as usual!
Here are some bug report / comments:

- The essence loss doesn't seems to be calculated correctly: the lowest essence cost (cyber or bioware) is not halved.
- Augmented attributes from cyberlimbs is calculated weirdly, it seems to take into account only attribute enhancements, but not the cyberlimb customization. Additionaly, the augmented attribute is "natural" + "highest enhancement", where it should be the averaged value of the limbs.
- I think it would be great if all tabs & select menus where streamlined, using the same system as the spell selection menu: items arranged by "categories" accessibles by clicking on a cross, and a search function. It could be extended to qualities list, maybe skills too?
- Are you planning to add new tabs? A tab dedicated to hacking where you can buy & customize your matrixware, maybe the same used for technomancer? I think it would be more ergonomic to have these gears on dedicated tabs instead of having them lost in a very large list of "stuffs".

Again, Great Job! smile.gif

Posted by: Argent Apr 26 2011, 03:29 PM

Debugging/Requests:

Was playing around with weapon and vehicle mods and found a few things.
Weapons
1. Can you display information for mods/acc like you do for vehicle mods? (ei. Cost, slots, avail, etc) currently it is totally blank for each mod/acc but costs are calculating correctly though.

2. Can you display how many slots are left like you do for vehicles?

3. Can you include descriptions of what mods/acc do? I would be willing to type out all the descriptions for you. Just tell me what the required format would be.

Vehicles
1. When moding weapons on the vehicle page, the prices are not calculating at all for both mods and acc. Also, the displays for each mod/acc are defaulting to the weapon display info instead of the mod information.

Posted by: Argent Apr 26 2011, 04:01 PM

Debugging/Requests:

Don't know if someone mentioned this already.

Adept Powers
1. the way you have the powerpoints / remaining are reversed I think and it is a bit confusing.
Currently displayed: Power Points: 0.25 / 1 Remaining
Less confusing way: Power Points: 1 / 0.25 Remaining

2. I think the program will not let you get to an even 0. I have one power point, I selected Blind Fighting .5 and critical strike rating one for .25 for a total of .75. So when I adjust crit strike to rating 2 for .5 it should allow it but currently it displays a warning window "your power level cannot exceed your MAG score".

Thanks.

Posted by: Vulcanisik Apr 26 2011, 07:48 PM

I might have missed this somewhere, but is it possible to print out the Character Info panel? When I went to print character it only printed out the basic character sheet.

Is there a way I could modify the XML of the the current character sheet to include that information somehow or would it require more coding from you?

Posted by: Vulcanisik Apr 26 2011, 08:27 PM

Okay, so I realize that post wasn't very informative, let me give you a better description of the problem.

I've noticed that when you put info into your Description, Background and Concept fields in the generator that this information isn't actually printed out on the character sheet. The only information that IS printed out is the Notes field.

I looked at your Shadowrun 4.xsl sheet and I'm guessing that the place for this information to be printed out should be getting produced somewhere around this area of your sheet.

CODE
<xsl:value-of select="name" />
<xsl:if test="rating != 0"><xsl:text> </xsl:text><xsl:value-of select="rating" /></xsl:if>
<xsl:if test="extra != ''"> (<xsl:value-of select="extra" />)</xsl:if>
<xsl:if test="position() != last()">, </xsl:if>
</xsl:for-each>
</td>
</tr>
</xsl:if>
</xsl:for-each>
</xsl:template>

<xsl:template name="PreserveLineBreaks">
<xsl:param name="text"/>
<xsl:choose>
<xsl:when test="contains($text,'&#xA;')">
<xsl:value-of select="substring-before($text,'&#xA;')"/>
<br/>
<xsl:call-template name="PreserveLineBreaks">
<xsl:with-param name="text">
<xsl:value-of select="substring-after($text,'&#xA;')"/>
</xsl:with-param>
</xsl:call-template>
</xsl:when>
<xsl:otherwise>
<xsl:value-of select="$text"/>
</xsl:otherwise>
</xsl:choose>
</xsl:template>
</xsl:stylesheet>


If I knew what value you were attributing to the Description, Background and Concept fields I might be able to alter the XSL sheet myself to make sure this information is being printed out along with the rest of the sheet. Also, sorry again if I'm missing this, but I actually don't see where Lifestyle is being added to the sheet, maybe it's missing? Lastly, is there anyway you can set up a way for your starting Nuyen to print out when creating a character for the first time?

Posted by: Nebular Apr 26 2011, 09:54 PM

Ahem... D'OH! I can't believe I forgot about Lifestyles on the sheet. I was debating if the Description, Background, and Concept fields should be on there as well if they were populated and decided not to. Apparently I decided incorrectly. smile.gif They're not even part of the XML that is generated for the printout. It's about a whole minute worth of work to put it in the output and on the character sheet, so I'll chuck that in this evening while I'm working on everything else. I'm thinking the basic rule should be write everything to the XML output and let the character sheets show what they want.

I was considering adding in descriptions for items like the mods, accessories, and things like Qualities and Spells. I'm extremely hesitant about putting those in, however, because that seems to be the part that publishers take an exception with. It's essentially negating the need for people to buy the book which is why I went with the Sourcebook and Page route instead.

The other points from the above posts have been added to my list of things to do, so they'll get done. smile.gif

Posted by: Vulcanisik Apr 26 2011, 10:19 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 26 2011, 01:54 PM) *
Ahem... D'OH! I can't believe I forgot about Lifestyles on the sheet. I was debating if the Description, Background, and Concept fields should be on there as well if they were populated and decided not to. Apparently I decided incorrectly. smile.gif They're not even part of the XML that is generated for the printout. It's about a whole minute worth of work to put it in the output and on the character sheet, so I'll chuck that in this evening while I'm working on everything else. I'm thinking the basic rule should be write everything to the XML output and let the character sheets show what they want.

I was considering adding in descriptions for items like the mods, accessories, and things like Qualities and Spells. I'm extremely hesitant about putting those in, however, because that seems to be the part that publishers take an exception with. It's essentially negating the need for people to buy the book which is why I went with the Sourcebook and Page route instead.

The other points from the above posts have been added to my list of things to do, so they'll get done. smile.gif


Thanks a lot man, you're the best! I also agree with not including the descriptions because that kind of does go over the line as far as their content is concerned. Having the page number and book is awesome for reference. The only thing I'm noticing that doesn't have that however are the Qualities. Currently qualities do not print out book and page number when they get spit out onto the character sheet. However I think most people will have a good idea of what they want on their character before they use this generator anyway. So it's not really that necessary.

Also, allowing the print out of Description, Background and Concept allows for people to put in any information they want to that might be relevant for skills and abilities anyway.

One last thing, I'm not sure why, but currently it's not possible to cut and paste in the Description, Background, Concept and Note fields. If that's something that requires way too much code, nevermind, just find it odd that its not possible to do.

Posted by: Bigity Apr 27 2011, 12:17 AM

Don't get burned out smile.gif

Posted by: Nebular Apr 27 2011, 12:55 AM

Whoops. Qualities will show their source and page info on the character sheet in the next update. Just put that in. I noticed the Cut/Copy/Paste thing earlier today while I was playing around as well. The problem was that there were Cut/Copy/Paste items in a default menu that I hid and were assigned the keys Ctrl+X, Ctrl+C, and Ctrl+V but didn't actually do anything. Apparently just deleting those hidden items get the keys working again, so also fixed in the next update.

QUOTE (Bigity @ Apr 26 2011, 06:17 PM) *
Don't get burned out smile.gif


Believe me, I plan on taking a day off from this in the next week or so. I've worked on this every day since some time in mid-February so the brain is getting a little squishy. spin.gif

Posted by: Vulcanisik Apr 27 2011, 01:11 AM

I feel like I should send you a fruit basket or something in thanks ha.

Posted by: ggodo Apr 27 2011, 02:13 AM

This feels a bit selfish, but I gotta ask for getting the Martial Arts quality working. I've yet to find a CharGen that does that, and I have a couple of players that are begging.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 27 2011, 12:50 PM

The Martial Arts Quality should be working, though it's a little different from the rest since it has so many options. The Martial Arts Quality in Chummer has a cost of 0 BP. When you select it, the Martial Arts tab gets added. From there you can add your Martial Arts, change their Rating, select Advantages, and add Combat Maneuvers. The Martial Arts and their selected Ratings count towards the Positive Quality BP total. This was the only way I could come up with getting Martial Arts support put in without creating a Positive Quality for each Martial Art and Rating combination as well as letting people select their Advantages and Maneuvers. Hopefully this makes sense. smile.gif

Edit: I've added a HowTo article for this on the Chummer Wiki since it's different from the other Qualities and I'm planning on getting some documentation up there in the future. This seemed like a good place to start. http://www.dndjunkie.com/chummer/wiki/Martial-Arts.ashx

Posted by: whatevs Apr 27 2011, 03:15 PM

It seems like i'm reporting less suggestions and technical issues every update. That says a lot nebular. Well done.

Technical issues:

- enemies and karma gen. Added vendetta and wanted negative qualities, then it barfed when i tried to add an enemy.
- minor minor thing: accessories need to be allowed for defiance protector (taser) to get a concealable holster/spare clips. Modded the xml on my own, just thought i'd mention it. Not sure if this applies for weapons with similar builtin accessories as well.

Suggestions:

- remember open spell/gear group and selected item when pressing 'add&more'
- (this one would probably be a lot of work) now that page number and book is defined for each item, how about a text descriptipn? EDIT: just saw the post about 'crossing a line' above. If you're not comfortable doing it using text compiled from the books, how about a 'notes' node in the .xml's that displays for each item in chummer? That way, we could add our own custom notes.

Posted by: ggodo Apr 27 2011, 04:38 PM

Thanks, Nebular. It turns out I was clicking the wrong things. I feel like an idiot, but praise you for having the quality functional. This alone makes it the best chargen I've used

Posted by: Argent Apr 27 2011, 04:52 PM

Debugging:

Ok found something else. Making an ogre rigger. Gave him metagenic improvement logic, displays correct min/max. Raised his logic to 5, then bought cerebral booster rtg 3. His augmented logic should be 8 but it freezes at 7. I think the program is still thinking his racial max is 5 so his aug max would be 7.

Posted by: LonePaladin Apr 27 2011, 05:44 PM

Quick suggestions.

On the 'spare clips' firearm addon, please turn on the Quantity control.

Can cybereyes and ears have the rating adjuster, rather than an individual entry for each level? Having to totally remake the eye-kit just because you need to adjust the capacity is a bit of a pain.

On the gear list, I'd like to see a placeholder item, so that you can create packages that get lumped together.

Audio/Visual enhancers (like goggles, or earbuds) have a Capacity equal to their rating, and each enhancement takes up 1 from this. Right now, it's possible to add, say, six vision mods into a pair of contacts. Using the capacity system (like what you use for cyberlimbs) would take care of that.

Drones could use some love in the sensor category, perhaps as an extra item on the right-click menu (since they're technically not 'mods', but just a normal thing that all drones get). They'd have a Capacity based on the size of the drone, and the Improved Sensor Array mod would alter that. Also, these sensors can have mods attached (like adding low-light to a camera).

Posted by: Leoric Apr 27 2011, 05:54 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2011, 02:50 PM) *
The Martial Arts Quality should be working, though it's a little different from the rest since it has so many options. The Martial Arts Quality in Chummer has a cost of 0 BP. When you select it, the Martial Arts tab gets added.


Suggestion: As MA quality costs 0, and costs are calculated from selected options in the MA tab, why not removing Martial Arts from qualities list, and showing the corresponding tab permanently?
As I remember, the famous NSRCG for SR2/3 used to have a tab for each aspect of a character, and I used to find it quite usefull.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 27 2011, 07:56 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ Apr 27 2011, 10:52 AM) *
Debugging:

Ok found something else. Making an ogre rigger. Gave him metagenic improvement logic, displays correct min/max. Raised his logic to 5, then bought cerebral booster rtg 3. His augmented logic should be 8 but it freezes at 7. I think the program is still thinking his racial max is 5 so his aug max would be 7.

In my testing build this is coming up correctly, so it should be fixed in the next update.

QUOTE (LonePaladin @ Apr 27 2011, 11:44 AM) *
Quick suggestions.

On the 'spare clips' firearm addon, please turn on the Quantity control.

Can cybereyes and ears have the rating adjuster, rather than an individual entry for each level? Having to totally remake the eye-kit just because you need to adjust the capacity is a bit of a pain.

On the gear list, I'd like to see a placeholder item, so that you can create packages that get lumped together.

Audio/Visual enhancers (like goggles, or earbuds) have a Capacity equal to their rating, and each enhancement takes up 1 from this. Right now, it's possible to add, say, six vision mods into a pair of contacts. Using the capacity system (like what you use for cyberlimbs) would take care of that.

Drones could use some love in the sensor category, perhaps as an extra item on the right-click menu (since they're technically not 'mods', but just a normal thing that all drones get). They'd have a Capacity based on the size of the drone, and the Improved Sensor Array mod would alter that. Also, these sensors can have mods attached (like adding low-light to a camera).

I'll take a look at merging Cyberears/eyes into one. My original plan was to do this but realised why the book shows them as separate items: the Cost and Avail don't follow a fixed fomula (Rating x 500 for example). I MAY have a solution to that. I'll have to give it a try. I'd really like to just merge them altogether since they are technically the same items.

The Drone/Vehicle sensor thing was bugging me too. I started to think about it when I had first entered them but put it on the back burner. I'll have to look into this again.

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 27 2011, 11:54 AM) *
Suggestion: As MA quality costs 0, and costs are calculated from selected options in the MA tab, why not removing Martial Arts from qualities list, and showing the corresponding tab permanently?
As I remember, the famous NSRCG for SR2/3 used to have a tab for each aspect of a character, and I used to find it quite usefull.

This will be going in.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 27 2011, 11:08 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ Apr 26 2011, 11:01 AM) *
2. I think the program will not let you get to an even 0. I have one power point, I selected Blind Fighting .5 and critical strike rating one for .25 for a total of .75. So when I adjust crit strike to rating 2 for .5 it should allow it but currently it displays a warning window "your power level cannot exceed your MAG score".

This is actually correct as far as I understand it. smile.gif (SR4A 195, lower left corner under "Adept Powers"). If you only have 1 Power Point, then you only have a MAG score of 1. The maximum level you can have in any power is equal to your MAG score. In the case you illustrated, a MAG score of 1 means you can only have Critical Strike Rating 1. When you try to put it to Rating 2, it does not let you because that would exceed your MAG score. If you increase your MAG score to 2, you will then be allowed to put Critical Strike to Rating 2.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 27 2011, 11:29 PM

More goodies!

Build 57


Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 28 2011, 12:09 AM

Just found this. Thanks for all your work on this. For some reason I can't find the enemies negative quality. Wouldn't infected and drakes be better as either a metavarient or given their own drop down menu like metavarients? currently they're listed as qualities and for the most part are priced so that it would look to an inexperienced player as if you aren't able to take them.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 28 2011, 12:27 AM

Since Enemies are identical to Contacts, I put them in their own section below the Contacts on the first tab. Each Enemy's Connection + Incidence Rating counts towards the Negative Qualities BP total which appears on the right in the Build Point Summary tab.

I originally thought about making Infected and Drakes their own Metatype or Metavariant, but it has a few annoyances. The first is having to create each Infected variant for each Metatype and Metavariant combination which is a staggering amount of work. This would also mean that Metatypes that other users create and place in the customer_metatypes.xml file wouldn't be able to benefit from Infected variants or Drake unless they creates those as well. Keeping them as Qualities cuts down on the amount of work for everyone. But yes, the point totals do make it a little unclear. I introduce the colours to help illustrate that they don't count towards the Positive Quality BP total but it isn't actually explained anywhere. I'll have to put in some clarifying text at some point.

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 28 2011, 02:26 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2011, 08:27 PM) *
Since Enemies are identical to Contacts, I put them in their own section below the Contacts on the first tab. Each Enemy's Connection + Incidence Rating counts towards the Negative Qualities BP total which appears on the right in the Build Point Summary tab.

I originally thought about making Infected and Drakes their own Metatype or Metavariant, but it has a few annoyances. The first is having to create each Infected variant for each Metatype and Metavariant combination which is a staggering amount of work. This would also mean that Metatypes that other users create and place in the customer_metatypes.xml file wouldn't be able to benefit from Infected variants or Drake unless they creates those as well. Keeping them as Qualities cuts down on the amount of work for everyone. But yes, the point totals do make it a little unclear. I introduce the colours to help illustrate that they don't count towards the Positive Quality BP total but it isn't actually explained anywhere. I'll have to put in some clarifying text at some point.


Thanks. I swear the enemies tab wasn't there the first time I booted chummer and looked for it. Looking there was the first thing I thought when I couldn't find it under negative qualities. It's there now though.

Posted by: LonePaladin Apr 28 2011, 02:43 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2011, 05:08 PM) *
This is actually correct as far as I understand it. smile.gif (SR4A 195, lower left corner under "Adept Powers"). If you only have 1 Power Point, then you only have a MAG score of 1. The maximum level you can have in any power is equal to your MAG score. In the case you illustrated, a MAG score of 1 means you can only have Critical Strike Rating 1. When you try to put it to Rating 2, it does not let you because that would exceed your MAG score. If you increase your MAG score to 2, you will then be allowed to put Critical Strike to Rating 2.

You can have a Magic attribute higher than your total Power Points, if you're a mystic adept.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 28 2011, 04:13 AM

Right. At the moment though there is no way to split MAG between Adept and Magician, so having a maximum of 1 Power Point is the same as having MAG 1 in the app right now. So what your description tells me is that your MAG score was set to 1 at the time, so the Power wouldn't let you put your Rating any higher which is technically correct. Of course I'm just assuming your MAG score was 1 based on what you said. Was it different when you tried this? When you do split your MAG between Adept and Magician, do you use the character's MAG score or the MAG invested in Adept for determining max Rating?

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin Apr 28 2011, 04:36 AM

I guess I need to do some double checking, but it seems odd to me that the Fomori metavariant pays for both troll and fomori races. Unless I haven't done enough reading in Runners Companion the cost for a metavariant in build points replaces but does not add on to the cost of the base race. Also, it seems the "Metagenetic Improvement (Body)" listed in the Formori qualities is not boosting the min/max body attribute by the 1 point its supposed to. Maybe the metavariants should just be listed under the race selection list box maybe indented or bulleted under the base race.

I haven't checked the other metavariants yet, although I need to look at the Minotaur also since I have both a Minotaur and Fomori in my gaming group.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 28 2011, 04:37 AM

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 26 2011, 07:20 AM) *
- Augmented attributes from cyberlimbs is calculated weirdly, it seems to take into account only attribute enhancements, but not the cyberlimb customization. Additionaly, the augmented attribute is "natural" + "highest enhancement", where it should be the averaged value of the limbs.

For some reason the combination of the descriptions and the examples in the book is making my brain hurt. I obviously don't have it right in the app and am fighting to get my head around this. Let me see if I've got this straight...

The Street Samurai example in SR4A just lists the Enhancements which I think is one of the pieces that's confusing me because it looks as though Enhanced X directly improves that Attribute by the selected amount (but there are a number of problems with the example characters in that book so why should this one be any different).

I've got a Human with STR 4. Drop in a Full Cyberarm. Give it Customized Strength 6 (natural maximum). I would now have STR 4 (6), correct? In order for it to become 4 (7), I would need to add Enhanced Strength 1?

Same Human. Full Cyberarm again. This time I only add Enhanced Strength 1. Would my STR be 4 (5), even though limbs are supposedly STR 3 without enhancements? The example character certainly make it look that way. As I had mentioned, they make it look as though Enhanced Strength improves your character's STR, regardless of the STR the limb is at.

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 28 2011, 04:40 AM

Another thing that appears to be hiding are the OS's for Comlinks. I don't see them under Comlink or communication, or electronic accessory or Misc. Electronics. For that matter I don't see hacking programs. Are hackers not supported yet or do I just not know where to look?

Also I don't know what the system wants when it asks me for a "value" when I buy a fake SIN.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 28 2011, 04:43 AM

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ Apr 27 2011, 11:36 PM) *
I guess I need to do some double checking, but it seems odd to me that the Fomori metavariant pays for both troll and fomori races. Unless I haven't done enough reading in Runners Companion the cost for a metavariant in build points replaces but does not add on to the cost of the base race. Also, it seems the "Metagenetic Improvement (Body)" listed in the Formori qualities is not boosting the min/max body attribute by the 1 point its supposed to. Maybe the metavariants should just be listed under the race selection list box maybe indented or bulleted under the base race.

I haven't checked the other metavariants yet, although I need to look at the Minotaur also since I have both a Minotaur and Fomori in my gaming group.


Yikes. Right you are. The Metavariant BP is instead of the Metatype BP, not in addition to. Looks like a change I made to get support in for Sapients caused the Metavariants to stop selecting their Qualities when you take them. These will be fixed in the next update.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 28 2011, 11:33 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 28 2011, 05:40 AM) *
Another thing that appears to be hiding are the OS's for Comlinks. I don't see them under Comlink or communication, or electronic accessory or Misc. Electronics. For that matter I don't see hacking programs. Are hackers not supported yet or do I just not know where to look?

Also I don't know what the system wants when it asks me for a "value" when I buy a fake SIN.


Commlink os needs to be added as a mod to a commlink. So pick a commlink, then right click the commlink in your gear list, choose 'add modification' and you should be good to go.

Fake sin's have a rating as per raw. The higher the rating, the more systems they can fool. Same with fake licences.

Posted by: Argent Apr 28 2011, 12:08 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2011, 06:08 PM) *
This is actually correct as far as I understand it. smile.gif (SR4A 195, lower left corner under "Adept Powers"). If you only have 1 Power Point, then you only have a MAG score of 1. The maximum level you can have in any power is equal to your MAG score. In the case you illustrated, a MAG score of 1 means you can only have Critical Strike Rating 1. When you try to put it to Rating 2, it does not let you because that would exceed your MAG score. If you increase your MAG score to 2, you will then be allowed to put Critical Strike to Rating 2.


Sorry about that Nebular. You are right! The program was not letting my rating go beyond one since my magic was only rating 1. I added another power at rating 1 which allowed me to use the rest of my remaining power point.

Posted by: Argent Apr 28 2011, 12:40 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2011, 11:37 PM) *
For some reason the combination of the descriptions and the examples in the book is making my brain hurt. I obviously don't have it right in the app and am fighting to get my head around this. Let me see if I've got this straight...

The Street Samurai example in SR4A just lists the Enhancements which I think is one of the pieces that's confusing me because it looks as though Enhanced X directly improves that Attribute by the selected amount (but there are a number of problems with the example characters in that book so why should this one be any different).

I've got a Human with STR 4. Drop in a Full Cyberarm. Give it Customized Strength 6 (natural maximum). I would now have STR 4 (6), correct? In order for it to become 4 (7), I would need to add Enhanced Strength 1?

Same Human. Full Cyberarm again. This time I only add Enhanced Strength 1. Would my STR be 4 (5), even though limbs are supposedly STR 3 without enhancements? The example character certainly make it look that way. As I had mentioned, they make it look as though Enhanced Strength improves your character's STR, regardless of the STR the limb is at.


OK, I will do my best to explain it. Lets say your character has a Body 2, Strength 3, Agility 3. He then buys a standard right cyber arm with a body 4, strength 5, agility 4 ( he used enhancements to boost the limb above 3 for each attribute) then he buys a customized left leg with a body 6, strength 6, agility 6 ( no enhancements required up to racial max). Here is how you figure it all out:

Formula: (Natural Attribute + Cyberlimb attribute 1 + cyberlimb attribute 2...ect) / total amount of attributes used in formula then rounded down= Augmented Attribute

Body: 2+4+6=12 then 12/3 round down = 4
Strength: 3+5+6=14 then 14/3 round down = 4
Agility: 3+4+6=13 then 13/3 round down = 4

So the correct display for attributes would be:

Body: 2(4)
Strength: 3(4)
Agility: 3(4)

This assumes that for most general actions/activities your body must balance itself out. When you take a specific action like punch with cyberarm or kick with cyber leg or jump with cyber legs then you would use that cyberlimbs attribute flat out. Enhancements only enhance the cyberlimb you purchased it for. Hope this helps.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 28 2011, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 28 2011, 05:33 AM) *
Commlink os needs to be added as a mod to a commlink. So pick a commlink, then right click the commlink in your gear list, choose 'add modification' and you should be good to go.

Already there. Commlink Operating System is one of the categories when you add Accessories to a Commlink which lets you add the OS. From there you can also add Commlink Upgrades (Response and Signal) and Commlink Operating System Upgrade (Firewall and System).

Posted by: Nebular Apr 28 2011, 01:26 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ Apr 28 2011, 06:40 AM) *
OK, I will do my best to explain it. Lets say your character has a Body 2, Strength 3, Agility 3. He then buys a standard right cyber arm with a body 4, strength 5, agility 4 ( he used enhancements to boost the limb above 3 for each attribute) then he buys a customized left leg with a body 6, strength 6, agility 6 ( no enhancements required up to racial max). Here is how you figure it all out:

Formula: (Natural Attribute + Cyberlimb attribute 1 + cyberlimb attribute 2...ect) / total amount of attributes used in formula then rounded down= Augmented Attribute

Body: 2+4+6=12 then 12/3 round down = 4
Strength: 3+5+6=14 then 14/3 round down = 4
Agility: 3+4+6=13 then 13/3 round down = 4

So the correct display for attributes would be:

Body: 2(4)
Strength: 3(4)
Agility: 3(4)

This assumes that for most general actions/activities your body must balance itself out. When you take a specific action like punch with cyberarm or kick with cyber leg or jump with cyber legs then you would use that cyberlimbs attribute flat out. Enhancements only enhance the cyberlimb you purchased it for. Hope this helps.

So if I wanted Strength on that leg, I would need to add Enhanced Strength 1 because it has already hit the metatype maximum for STR, correct? In that case the STR formula would change to 3+5+7=15, 15/3 = 5 for STR 3(5)? If that's the case, then I think I've got it! Thanks! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Bigity Apr 28 2011, 01:48 PM

Now my brain hurts.

Posted by: Argent Apr 28 2011, 04:16 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 28 2011, 09:26 AM) *
So if I wanted Strength on that leg, I would need to add Enhanced Strength 1 because it has already hit the metatype maximum for STR, correct? In that case the STR formula would change to 3+5+7=15, 15/3 = 5 for STR 3(5)? If that's the case, then I think I've got it! Thanks! biggrin.gif


You got it sir, on both counts!

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 28 2011, 06:43 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 28 2011, 06:33 AM) *
Commlink os needs to be added as a mod to a commlink. So pick a commlink, then right click the commlink in your gear list, choose 'add modification' and you should be good to go.


Thanks.

QUOTE
Fake sin's have a rating as per raw. The higher the rating, the more systems they can fool. Same with fake licences.


I realize that, but you select the rating from a drop down menu when you buy it. So that's just for pricing and you still have to put the rating in?

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 28 2011, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 28 2011, 09:18 AM) *
Already there. Commlink Operating System is one of the categories when you add Accessories to a Commlink which lets you add the OS. From there you can also add Commlink Upgrades (Response and Signal) and Commlink Operating System Upgrade (Firewall and System).


Ah-hah! found my issue I need to use the add as plug in command.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 28 2011, 08:45 PM

Are we sure you don't always use 5 limbs for the overall average calculation? So, 3 of the natural, and cyber-1 and cyber-2, all over 5? It doesn't really make sense the other way, and things like 'legs-only' tests use the weakest link, IIRC.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 29 2011, 01:08 AM

Quick Technical Issue: Looks like specializations of knowledge skills are taking away skill points, but not adding any dice. Unless I've got it wrong.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 29 2011, 01:35 AM

One more note about character mug shot: might want to mention that the dimensions for the shot need to be roughly 210px wide x 310px high.

Posted by: whatevs Apr 29 2011, 01:45 AM

Suggestion: on the character sheet, might want to consider shading every second line light greay in the following areas for readability:

Actve Skills
Knowledge Skills
Contacts
Spells
Gear

Posted by: Argent Apr 29 2011, 02:09 AM

Wow! I have just done a ton of reading and research on the forums and the rule books and now my brain hurts. Well pg 343 of SR4A says:

1. for specific limb use limb attributes
2. in any other case use the average value of all limbs
3. for a task that requires careful coordination of several limbs, use the value of the weakest limb.

For a basic character sheet it would make sense to me that you would display the average augmented attribute to cover most cases (#2)

So i think my previous understanding was a little wrong so I would like to offer a revision to the formula. The general consensus in the forums is that the skull is usually left out of attribute avarages and it makes sense to me so I will do the same. Limbs are considered both arms, both legs, and torso...total 5 limbs.

Augmented attribute= Cyber limbs + meat limbs / 5(total limbs)

6(cyber torso)+3(left cyber arm)+5 (left cyber leg)+3(meat right arm)+3(meat right leg)= 20/5 = 4
Displayed as Body: 3(4)

Full conversion razor boys is where I have some beefs. Some people like the idea of once going full cyber then you don't have to average in the natural ratings, just the cyber ones. I think that leads to alot of characters that start with Natural body,agility, and strength ratings of one because who cares, it won't count anyways. I think we all see how this can be abused. The meat body is the foundation on which the cyber body is built so while it will only affect it minimally, it should still affect the attribute ratings.

Full cyberlimb replacemnt formula.
Augmented attribute= natural rating + cyber limbs / 6 (5 total limbs +1 for the base attribute rating)

6(cyber torso)+6(left cyber arm)+6(left cyber leg)+6(cyber right arm)+6(cyber right leg)+3(natural rating)= 33/6 = 5
Displayed as Body: 3(5)

How does this look to everyone? Enhancements would still work the same way as before, just effecting that particular limb, but getting avaraged in just like normal.

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 29 2011, 03:08 AM

Odd error. While modifying a Horizon-double revolution with an Engine Customization for Acceleration I got an error that says the object reference isn't set to an instance of an object. I've included the details it give me in a spoiler box in case it helps tell you what went wrong.

[ Spoiler ]

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin Apr 29 2011, 03:11 AM

I don't think I'd consider the Torso a limb... Body and Head are usually considered the trunk of the body.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 29 2011, 03:12 AM

Argent, while I appreciate anti-munchkinry as much as anyone, 5-limb *customized* enhanced cyber is fairly prohibitive in cost and Essence already; I'm not sure how much of an actual problem it is. In addition, new house rules are great, but are they great in a chargen program?

Your 1-2-3 overview of the cyberlimb attributes RAW seemed right on, to me. AFAIK, the 5 'limbs' are indeed legs, arms, and torso.

Posted by: LonePaladin Apr 29 2011, 03:17 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 27 2011, 10:40 PM) *
Also I don't know what the system wants when it asks me for a "value" when I buy a fake SIN.

Easy. Your fake ID's name. "John Smith" or "Ali t'Buger".

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 03:51 AM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 28 2011, 08:08 PM) *
Quick Technical Issue: Looks like specializations of knowledge skills are taking away skill points, but not adding any dice. Unless I've got it wrong.

This is a little misleading in the generator itself. If you view the character sheet, the Skill shows its base value and the Specialization total. I'll add the Specialization amount to the Skill Rating for the next update, so it will so 3(5) instead of just 3.

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 28 2011, 08:45 PM) *
Suggestion: on the character sheet, might want to consider shading every second line light greay in the following areas for readability:

Actve Skills
Knowledge Skills
Contacts
Spells
Gear

I intended to do this after I got the basics of the sheet working, and then I completely forgot about it. I've added it to the list o' stuff so it actually gets done. Thanks for reminding me.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 03:54 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 28 2011, 10:08 PM) *
Odd error. While modifying a Horizon-double revolution with an Engine Customization for Acceleration I got an error that says the object reference isn't set to an instance of an object. I've included the details it give me in a spoiler box in case it helps tell you what went wrong.

I'll have a look at this tomorrow and see what's misbehaving. Should be fixed in the next update.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 04:03 AM

Wow. You step out for part of the evening for a band rehearsal and things go wild. smile.gif

So our old friends the Cyberlimbs. I have Cyberlimbs reporting their Attributes now so the difficult part is taken care of. Just have the figuring out the augmented value left, so I want to make sure that what I understand from everything said here is correct and will be implemented properly. Here we go...

2 Legs + 2 Arms + Torso = all 5 limbs. If a limb isn't replaced, you use the character's Attributes. If it is replaced, you use the Attribute of the limb. Formula is (Leg + Leg + Arm + Arm + Torso) / 5 = the Augmented score. Character has STR 3. Leg (cyber) STR 5 + Leg (meat) STR 3 + Arm (cyber) STR 6 + Arm (meat) 3 + Torso (meat) 3 = 20. 20 / 5 = 4. So the character would show STR 3(4). Correct? biggrin.gif

Posted by: Yerameyahu Apr 29 2011, 04:34 AM

I think that is right. It's up to the GM to know the special cases (single limb, coordinated limbs, natural Body for toxins/drugs/disease, etc.).

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 04:42 AM

Agreed. Special cases are another demon altogether and are up to the player/GM to handle. This will be in the next update then so we can all make sure I did it right. smile.gif

Posted by: ggodo Apr 29 2011, 04:59 AM

Watching you two talk is confusing. Anyway, it's not showing my Complex Forms anywhere on the printed character sheet. Am I doing it wrong?

Posted by: Leoric Apr 29 2011, 09:38 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 06:03 AM) *
2 Legs + 2 Arms + Torso = all 5 limbs. If a limb isn't replaced, you use the character's Attributes. If it is replaced, you use the Attribute of the limb. Formula is (Leg + Leg + Arm + Arm + Torso) / 5 = the Augmented score. Character has STR 3. Leg (cyber) STR 5 + Leg (meat) STR 3 + Arm (cyber) STR 6 + Arm (meat) 3 + Torso (meat) 3 = 20. 20 / 5 = 4. So the character would show STR 3(4). Correct? biggrin.gif


AFAIK, this is the RAW formula.

Well, I played a little with the Chummer CharGen (let's call it CCG), and found out some other things you might want to work on:

- In the Initiation Tab, the Add&more function doesn't work when adding metamagics. Also, when clicking on Ok without selecting any metamagic, I have an error message, see below:
[ Spoiler ]

- When bonding a power focus, it doesn't seems to add its rating as a "mod" bonus when calculating dice pools. As per RAW, it adds its rating to any test involving the Magic attribute, excepted for counterspelling.
- Similarly, Smartlink bonus doesn't seems to be added as a mod bonus for firearms skills. I do understand that it is not applicable all the tme because it needs a smartgun to benefit from, but i Think 99% of smartkinked PC uses smartguns, so it might be a good call to add the mod bonus.
- Armor for cyberlimbs is not calculated as per RAW: all cyberlimb armor is supposed to be cumulative, so if I wear a Jumpsuit (6/6) and have a cyberarm with armor 1/1, and a cyberleg with armor 2/2, my total armor rating should be 9/9. The CCG show a 8/8 armor rating, it looks like it only takes the highest armor rating from multiple cyberlimbs.
- When making a Mystic adept, dice pools are not calculated correctly: Say I build a Mystic Adept with Magic 6. Then I buy the improved reflexes (3) power, costing 4 power point, I should only have left a magic Rating of 2 for any dice pools related to sorcery or invocation. I I buy the spellcasting skill (2), I should have a dice pool of 4 when using the skill. But the CCG shows a dice pool of 8 (2 + total magic rating of 6). As I said in a previous post, you might want to add a way to track how many points in the magic rating are allocated to adept powers, and how many are dedicated to Mage stuffs.

Posted by: Argent Apr 29 2011, 09:46 AM

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Apr 28 2011, 10:12 PM) *
Argent, while I appreciate anti-munchkinry as much as anyone, 5-limb *customized* enhanced cyber is fairly prohibitive in cost and Essence already; I'm not sure how much of an actual problem it is. In addition, new house rules are great, but are they great in a chargen program?

Your 1-2-3 overview of the cyberlimb attributes RAW seemed right on, to me. AFAIK, the 5 'limbs' are indeed legs, arms, and torso.


I see your point, it does happen rarely in my games. Except for the fact its always the same player.... i need to work on him. The chargen should definitely be totally RAW and maybe way way later when Nebular is bored and has nothing to do he might be so kind as to throw in a few optional house rules into the mix.

Thanks for all the hard work Nebular. I think your generator is catching on cause there are more people posting stuff on this thread.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 02:34 PM

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 03:38 AM) *
- When bonding a power focus, it doesn't seems to add its rating as a "mod" bonus when calculating dice pools. As per RAW, it adds its rating to any test involving the Magic attribute, excepted for counterspelling.

I was originally look at that as well, but came across this information: Bonding a Foci and Activating a Foci are not the same thing. A character can have a number of Foci bonded to them equal to their MAG score. This simply means that they have the ability to now activate them to gain their bonus, but does not actually grant it. To get a bonded Foci's bonus, you need to activate it. A character can have a number of active bonded Foci equal to their LOG score, but they must activate/deactivate these during their actions in play. Since they're not "always on" bonuses, I've left these out, otherwise you could be seeing bonuses for 5 bonded Foci when you're only allowed to have 3 active (for example).

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 03:38 AM) *
- Similarly, Smartlink bonus doesn't seems to be added as a mod bonus for firearms skills. I do understand that it is not applicable all the tme because it needs a smartgun to benefit from, but i Think 99% of smartkinked PC uses smartguns, so it might be a good call to add the mod bonus.

The problem here is that this applies to individual guns that have Smartlink as opposed to an individual firearms Skill. If I have a Smartlink, one Heavy Pistol with a Smartgun System, and one Heavy Pistol without a Smartgun System, rolling the Smartlink bonus into the Pistols Active Skill would give me a total that is technically correct for the first, but too high for the second. I decided to leave the Smargun bonus out since it only improves the individual weapon as opposed to the Active Skill as a whole.

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 03:38 AM) *
- Armor for cyberlimbs is not calculated as per RAW: all cyberlimb armor is supposed to be cumulative, so if I wear a Jumpsuit (6/6) and have a cyberarm with armor 1/1, and a cyberleg with armor 2/2, my total armor rating should be 9/9. The CCG show a 8/8 armor rating, it looks like it only takes the highest armor rating from multiple cyberlimbs.

Right you are. Not sure where I was getting the idea that only the highest single one applied. Think I got this in my head when I took the first crack at Cyberlimb Enhancements.

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 03:38 AM) *
- When making a Mystic adept, dice pools are not calculated correctly: Say I build a Mystic Adept with Magic 6. Then I buy the improved reflexes (3) power, costing 4 power point, I should only have left a magic Rating of 2 for any dice pools related to sorcery or invocation. I I buy the spellcasting skill (2), I should have a dice pool of 4 when using the skill. But the CCG shows a dice pool of 8 (2 + total magic rating of 6). As I said in a previous post, you might want to add a way to track how many points in the magic rating are allocated to adept powers, and how many are dedicated to Mage stuffs.

Yup. Planning on doing this in the not-too-distant future. Won't be in the next update, but perhaps the one after that.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 02:47 PM

QUOTE (ggodo @ Apr 28 2011, 10:59 PM) *
Watching you two talk is confusing. Anyway, it's not showing my Complex Forms anywhere on the printed character sheet. Am I doing it wrong?

Nope. I'm the one doing it wrong. smile.gif This will be fixed in the next update.

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 29 2011, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 10:34 AM) *
The problem here is that this applies to individual guns that have Smartlink as opposed to an individual firearms Skill. If I have a Smartlink, one Heavy Pistol with a Smartgun System, and one Heavy Pistol without a Smartgun System, rolling the Smartlink bonus into the Pistols Active Skill would give me a total that is technically correct for the first, but too high for the second. I decided to leave the Smargun bonus out since it only improves the individual weapon as opposed to the Active Skill as a whole.


Who makes a character with a smart link and then buys a dumb gun?

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 04:50 PM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 29 2011, 10:13 AM) *
Who makes a character with a smart link and then buys a dumb gun?

Broke? Scaveneged weapon without Smartgun? smile.gif
If it makes more sense to everyone to just roll the Smartlink/Smartgun bonus in the Firearms skills then I'll toss it in.

Posted by: ggodo Apr 29 2011, 06:11 PM

I would rather it wasn't there, simply because I often have characters with plenty of weapons.

Posted by: LonePaladin Apr 29 2011, 06:44 PM

I'm with ggodo there. If smartlinked weapons are assumed, it's too easy for players to forget to actually do it.

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 29 2011, 07:51 PM

Found another oddity. I opened up a character I made last night and his contacts and his enemy are gone. Also I forgot to choose his adept powers and now it's saying he doesn't have any power points.

Edit: Ok, the 0 power points issue cleared up and showed an accurate number after I bought a power.

Edit 2: Just noticed, not only are his contacts and his enemies gone, the button to add an enemy is gone. So it looks like me not being able to add an enemy on my first attempt wasn't user error but a weird bug that intermittently causes the enemies button to not display.

And while I was posting that the button came back but will not let me press it. I'm getting an Unhandled exception error Input string was not in a correct format when I try.

Details of the error spoiler tagged.

[ Spoiler ]


Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 08:39 PM

That's weird. I can't seem to reproduce this error. Could you email me your save file (nebular@shaw.ca) and I'll see what might be causing the problem.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin Apr 29 2011, 10:15 PM

I agree that adding in bonuses that only apply under certain conditions shouldn't be added in automatically. However, it might be nice to have on the character sheet somewhere a list of optional dice pool modifiers the character has and their bonus maybe broken down by area like ranged combat, melee combat, magic, hacking, rigging... that way the player can look at a glance at any dice pool modifiers he has that aren't automatically figured into an attribute or skill.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 11:08 PM

I went ahead and made an option for the Smartlink bonus so that those who want it can have it, and those who don't, well, don't. By default this is off. If you turn it on and add a Smartlink to your character, Automatics, Exotic Ranged Weapon, Heavy Weapons, Longarms, and Pistols add in the +2 bonus for Smartlink.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 29 2011, 11:40 PM

I've managed to get all of the Grunt NPCs from SR4A and all of the NPCs from Contacts and Adventures entered. You can get them from http://www.dndjunkie.com/dev/chummer/NPCSaves.zip. Should save any Game Master a lot of time. smile.gif (That's 204 save files for anyone counting)

Posted by: ggodo Apr 30 2011, 12:02 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 04:40 PM) *
I've managed to get all of the Grunt NPCs from SR4A and all of the NPCs from Contacts and Adventures entered. You can get them from http://www.dndjunkie.com/dev/chummer/NPCSaves.zip. Should save any Game Master a lot of time. smile.gif (That's 204 save files for anyone counting)

A hero is you!

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 30 2011, 12:07 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 06:40 PM) *
I've managed to get all of the Grunt NPCs from SR4A and all of the NPCs from Contacts and Adventures entered. You can get them from http://www.dndjunkie.com/dev/chummer/NPCSaves.zip. Should save any Game Master a lot of time. smile.gif (That's 204 save files for anyone counting)


Nice!

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 30 2011, 12:21 AM

The add and more button when buying bioware is kicking me over to cyberware.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 30 2011, 12:31 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 29 2011, 07:21 PM) *
The add and more button when buying bioware is kicking me over to cyberware.
Yeah, I noticed this the other day. Took me a moment to realise why I could find a Synthcardium in the Cyberware list. It has already been fixed and will be in this weekend's update. smile.gif

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 30 2011, 12:53 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 07:31 PM) *
Yeah, I noticed this the other day. Took me a moment to realise why I could find a Synthcardium in the Cyberware list. It has already been fixed and will be in this weekend's update. smile.gif


Thanks. Hopefully this is the last thing I'll bug you about tonight but I just made a face with "False Front" and I can't find the activator chemical that bit of ware needs. I don't know if it got missed or I'm looking in the wrong place. This really is one of the quickest and easiest to use character generators I've used - I just keep tripping over weird bugs or equipment found in places I didn't think to look.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 30 2011, 01:29 AM

Hmm, those drugs are indeed missing. I'll have those added in to Gear in the next update.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 30 2011, 05:53 AM

Edit: Duh. Didn't read the part for Mystic Adepts on page 195 that clearly states that the Magician's MAG is what counts towards an Active Skill. Read everything else on Mystic Adepts except that. Some of the info in that book is just too scattered. nyahnyah.gif

Posted by: Nebular Apr 30 2011, 06:21 AM

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 04:38 AM) *
- When making a Mystic adept, dice pools are not calculated correctly: Say I build a Mystic Adept with Magic 6. Then I buy the improved reflexes (3) power, costing 4 power point, I should only have left a magic Rating of 2 for any dice pools related to sorcery or invocation. I I buy the spellcasting skill (2), I should have a dice pool of 4 when using the skill. But the CCG shows a dice pool of 8 (2 + total magic rating of 6). As I said in a previous post, you might want to add a way to track how many points in the magic rating are allocated to adept powers, and how many are dedicated to Mage stuffs.

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 09:34 AM) *
Yup. Planning on doing this in the not-too-distant future. Won't be in the next update, but perhaps the one after that.

Okay, I'm apparently a dirty, filthy liar. This turned out to be easier than I had thought it would be and just finished implementing this, so it'll be in this weekends update. Hooray!

Posted by: whatevs Apr 30 2011, 06:22 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 30 2011, 12:40 AM) *
I've managed to get all of the Grunt NPCs from SR4A and all of the NPCs from Contacts and Adventures entered. You can get them from http://www.dndjunkie.com/dev/chummer/NPCSaves.zip. Should save any Game Master a lot of time. smile.gif (That's 204 save files for anyone counting)


I'm counting (in spirit only though. I trust you enough that I don't have to count). The amount of work and dedication put into this is really impressive. I hope you're not spending too many sleepless nights on it...

Posted by: Argent Apr 30 2011, 01:25 PM

Whenever I try to reopen a saved character who's attribute has been raise above 6 with exception attribute or metagenic enhancement, ie Agility 7 or 8, I get an unhandled exception error.

Value of '7' is not valid for 'Value'. 'Value' should be between 'Minimum' and 'Maximum'.
Parameter name: Value.

I used a freshly created character with your most current build. I did this with a human raising agility to 7 and 8, also tried a troll with a strength of 11. Does the same exact thing. However the program work fine when only the aumented attribute goes higher than the base natural max, ie Agility: 5(9).

Posted by: Nebular Apr 30 2011, 01:37 PM

Well there's my problem. When the window first opens I was setting the maximum values to the Metatype's maximum, not the total maximum (which includes modifiers). Fixed and will be in this weekend's update.

Posted by: Argent Apr 30 2011, 01:56 PM

You are the man!

Posted by: Nebular Apr 30 2011, 04:43 PM

Here's this weekend's update. This take care of all of the outstanding bugs and other features that were on my list as far as the generator is concerned (there's a number of things for the character maintenance piece which is coming up next though). If I've missed anything obvious or there are any problems that still exist, let me know!

Build 60


Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 30 2011, 11:30 PM

It would be great to have an option to print in black and white instead of using my colored ink.

Speaking of printing my Task spirit with 4 services and a force of 5 is being printed out as a Fire Spirit with a force of 4 and -3 services.

Form fitting armor from Arsenal is not adding to other armor worn as it should, it's following the standard armor rules where only the highest armor value is counted. I clicked the box to add the smartlink bonus but it does not apear to be doing so.

Posted by: Nebular Apr 30 2011, 11:47 PM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 30 2011, 06:30 PM) *
It would be great to have an option to print in black and white instead of using my colored ink.

Speaking of printing my Task spirit with 4 services and a force of 5 is being printed out as a Fire Spirit with a force of 4 and -3 services.

Form fitting armor from Arsenal is not adding to other armor worn as it should, it's following the standard armor rules where only the highest armor value is counted. I clicked the box to add the smartlink bonus but it does not apear to be doing so.

I'll look into the Form Fitting Armor and Spirit issues.

Having a black & white vs colour option means either a lot of extra work in the character sheets for anyone who wants to create them, or having a colour copy and a black & white copy of each. The easiest way is to handle this would be to change your printing preferences when you go to print the sheet. After you click the Print Character button, you get the standard Print window. From there you can click on Printer Preferences and change your printer to black and white mode. This sets it to black and white mode for that one time (so it won't replace your current default printer settings).

I should clarify the Smartlink Option (and how Options work in general). Simply having it turned on isn't enough. The character in question must also have a Smartlink on them, either through Gear or Cyberware. Once both of these conditions are met, the +2 bonus will show up. If you change Options while you have a character open, the changes you make don't actually apply to them since the character has already cached the Options it saw. This is done since adding/removing Books and changing Karma costs with a character open could produce horribly unpredictable results. To have a character pick up on the new Option settings, you need to close the character and re-open it. So if you had a character with a Smartlink open then turned on the Smartlink Option, you won't see that bonus applied until you close the character and re-open them. Hopefully that clarifies things. smile.gif

Posted by: Nebular Apr 30 2011, 11:53 PM

Well there's the problem with your Spirit! I've got the stupid thing hard-coded in the character sheet! Doesn't matter how many Spirits or Sprites you pick, the sheet will only ever print that one Spirit. If you don't like it, tough! Or I'll change it. Yeah, maybe I'll go that route instead.

Posted by: redwulf25 Apr 30 2011, 11:54 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 30 2011, 07:47 PM) *
I'll look into the Form Fitting Armor and Spirit issues.

Having a black & white vs colour option means either a lot of extra work in the character sheets for anyone who wants to create them, or having a colour copy and a black & white copy of each. The easiest way is to handle this would be to change your printing preferences when you go to print the sheet. After you click the Print Character button, you get the standard Print window. From there you can click on Printer Preferences and change your printer to black and white mode. This sets it to black and white mode for that one time (so it won't replace your current default printer settings).

I should clarify the Smartlink Option (and how Options work in general). Simply having it turned on isn't enough. The character in question must also have a Smartlink on them, either through Gear or Cyberware. Once both of these conditions are met, the +2 bonus will show up. If you change Options while you have a character open, the changes you make don't actually apply to them since the character has already cached the Options it saw. This is done since adding/removing Books and changing Karma costs with a character open could produce horribly unpredictable results. To have a character pick up on the new Option settings, you need to close the character and re-open it. So if you had a character with a Smartlink open then turned on the Smartlink Option, you won't see that bonus applied until you close the character and re-open them. Hopefully that clarifies things. smile.gif


On the smartlink issue he had a smartlinked gun and glasses with a smartlink and he was opened after clicking the box.

Or do I have to select the option every time I open Chummer?

Posted by: Nebular May 1 2011, 12:38 AM

The Options are saved when you close the Options window, so you don't need to touch it again unless you want to turn it off.

I tried creating a character with a Smartlink as a plugin for Glasses and it seems to be working. Was this a save file that was created before today's update? If so, the Smartlink bonus won't be showing up because the copy of Smartlink that was added to your character would not have had the new bonus that's applied to it. In that case, you can fix this by removing the Smartlink from the Glasses, then adding the Smartlink back to them. This will pull in the new bonus data for the Smartlink and should apply the modifiers for you.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 1 2011, 12:48 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 30 2011, 08:38 PM) *
The Options are saved when you close the Options window, so you don't need to touch it again unless you want to turn it off.

I tried creating a character with a Smartlink as a plugin for Glasses and it seems to be working. Was this a save file that was created before today's update? If so, the Smartlink bonus won't be showing up because the copy of Smartlink that was added to your character would not have had the new bonus that's applied to it. In that case, you can fix this by removing the Smartlink from the Glasses, then adding the Smartlink back to them. This will pull in the new bonus data for the Smartlink and should apply the modifiers for you.


I see. For some reason I thought the changes would be retroactive.

Posted by: Argent May 1 2011, 01:43 AM

Weapon mods that calculate cost based on weapon value can be added, but once you click on it with the mouse it gives an unhandled exception error.

"Input string was not in correct format."

This happens when modding weapons in the weapon gear tab or in the vehicle tab. Also happened with weapon accessories that have a calculated cost too.

Posted by: Argent May 1 2011, 02:27 AM

1: Cannot find bulk modification for obvious cyberlimbs. AU pg44

2: Cannot find optimized cyberlimbs. AU pg44-45

3: Will you be adding the listed cyber suites in the future. Also if you could find a way for us to designate a particular peice of cyberware as part of a cyber suite so we can build custom suites ourselves that would be awesome. Like for instance have a drop down menu in the cyberware info display with the title "Cybersuite:", and then the drop down menu could have "none,a,b,c,d,e" so we can designate different suites or none. AU pg48-49

4: Cannot find Biocompatability in the qualities section. AU pg20

5: Adapsin does not seem to work. It should reduce the essense cost of all cyberware by 10%. Now I beleive this only is taken into effect after the second treatment so I selected it twice and it still does not reduce the essence cost. AU pg90

Thanks!

Posted by: whatevs May 1 2011, 02:34 AM

Really slick Nebular! It's amazng how well chummer is coming along. Serious congrats!

Here's one quick thing I noticed:

It looks like the Mug Shots aren't making it through to the character sheet. I'm just getting a blank placeholder with a red x at the top left. I checked the properties, and I was expecting to see a nice simple relative folder reference, but it looks like the sheet is attempting to access the image from a database (possibly a glob/blob).

Posted by: Nebular May 1 2011, 03:13 AM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 30 2011, 09:34 PM) *
It looks like the Mug Shots aren't making it through to the character sheet. I'm just getting a blank placeholder with a red x at the top left. I checked the properties, and I was expecting to see a nice simple relative folder reference, but it looks like the sheet is attempting to access the image from a database (possibly a glob/blob).

The app is encoding is using Base64 and storing it in the XML file. That way the image is always available and I don't need to worry about the image file being deleted after it is referenced. Sounds to me like it's the type of imaging you're supplying it with that is causing the problem (that is to say, it's a type I wasn't expecting, not "haha I don't like your picture"). What type of image are you giving it? (jpeg/gif/png/bmp) Does it at least appear in the app itself? Could be the MIME type I'm specifying in the sheet that's causing the problem in that case.

Posted by: Nebular May 1 2011, 08:23 AM

I intended for this to be a rather small set of changes that I may or may not have released just yet. And then one thing lead to another, new Qualities and bonus options were added, and a few hours later there's suddenly support for Cyberware Suites. There are discrepancies in price between the app and the prices that Augmentation lists because of the Data Lock item and the unknown encryption they're putting in there. But considering they're intended for NPCs, it's not a huge deal, and the cost difference can be made up for later through the career maintenance piece for characters when you can deduct any amount of money from a character. I believe I'll be slacking off tomorrow (well, now later today) and not touching the code for a day. biggrin.gif

Build 61


Posted by: whatevs May 1 2011, 11:59 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 1 2011, 04:13 AM) *
The app is encoding is using Base64 and storing it in the XML file. That way the image is always available and I don't need to worry about the image file being deleted after it is referenced. Sounds to me like it's the type of imaging you're supplying it with that is causing the problem (that is to say, it's a type I wasn't expecting, not "haha I don't like your picture"). What type of image are you giving it? (jpeg/gif/png/bmp) Does it at least appear in the app itself? Could be the MIME type I'm specifying in the sheet that's causing the problem in that case.


The images I'm using are like you said ( .jpg/.png).and they show up beautifully in chummer, just not so much in the character sheets.

Posted by: whatevs May 1 2011, 12:07 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 1 2011, 09:23 AM) *
I believe I'll be slacking off tomorrow (well, now later today) and not touching the code for a day.


There you go! Enjoy!

Posted by: whatevs May 1 2011, 02:05 PM

One other thing I noticed:

Gear Capactity - It looks like capacity for vehicle modification and weapon modification is working nicely, along with sensors, but it doesn't look like it's being calculated for 'Vision Sensors and Imaging Devices' or 'Audio Sensors and Enhancers'. I purchased contact lenses and earbuds, and then added mods to them beyond the maximum 3 rating. The capacity label is there, but it always states that the maximum capacity for the object is available. I can manage this myself (and have done so in previous versions), just thought I'd point it out. Also, I created a brand new character to test.

Posted by: Argent May 1 2011, 02:49 PM

1: When Biocompatability and Adapsin are both selected it seems to double the reduced essence cost. When used seperately it works fine.

ie. cyber arm = 1.0---- then with adapsin 0.9 ------ then with biocompatability 1.8

As a side note. I always thought you added the reductions together before you actually reduced the item. ie 10% for adapsin +10% for bioavailability + 10% for Alphaware = 30% reduction. Can anybody clarify the rules for these items. It might just be wishful thinking on my part.

2: Reaction augmented attribute is stuck at (1) regardless of the normal rating and with or without reaction enhancements.

Have a nice relaxing day today!

Posted by: Nebular May 1 2011, 03:44 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 1 2011, 09:49 AM) *
1: When Biocompatability and Adapsin are both selected it seems to double the reduced essence cost. When used seperately it works fine.

ie. cyber arm = 1.0---- then with adapsin 0.9 ------ then with biocompatability 1.8

Whoops. Everywhere else I ask the ImprovementManager to get me the total bonus of a type which just adds everything it sees together which clearly isn't the correct way of doing this for this. It should multiply all of the bonuses (0.9 * 0.9 = 0.81) then use that number instead. I'll start taking a look at these issues tomorrow.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 1 2011, 05:10 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 1 2011, 03:23 AM) *
[*]Form-Fitting Armor now properly stacks with other worn Armor


Only for Impact armor. It's still not stacking for Ballistic.

Posted by: Nebular May 1 2011, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ May 1 2011, 11:10 AM) *
Only for Impact armor. It's still not stacking for Ballistic.

That's weird. It's working just fine for me. Just put an Armor Jacket (8/6) and Form-Fitting Half-Body Suit (4/1) on a character and it correctly calculates it as (12/7). What items are you stack where this isn't working?

Posted by: Nebular May 1 2011, 06:47 PM

Oh, I think I know what's happening! (though I still need to know what you're stacking to actually confirm this). In order to determine your Armor Ratings, it takes a few passes through your Armor items. It goes through all of them and picks out the highest single Ballistic and Impact Ratings, then adds in the Armor Ratings for Form-Fitting Armor. That catch here is that if a piece was identified as being the highest for a single Rating, it is excluded from other calculations so it doesn't double its Rating. So if you have a piece of Armor that's Ballistic 4, and a Form-Fitting piece that's Ballistic 6, it considers the 6 as the highest and ignores everything else, when in actuality, it should consider the standard Armor at Ballistic 4 to be the highest, then stack the Form-Fitting Armor on top of it. So essentially, Form-Fitting Armor should never be considered for finding the highest Rating for Armor, only added to whatever piece it finds.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 1 2011, 07:50 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 1 2011, 01:47 PM) *
Oh, I think I know what's happening! (though I still need to know what you're stacking to actually confirm this). In order to determine your Armor Ratings, it takes a few passes through your Armor items. It goes through all of them and picks out the highest single Ballistic and Impact Ratings, then adds in the Armor Ratings for Form-Fitting Armor. That catch here is that if a piece was identified as being the highest for a single Rating, it is excluded from other calculations so it doesn't double its Rating. So if you have a piece of Armor that's Ballistic 4, and a Form-Fitting piece that's Ballistic 6, it considers the 6 as the highest and ignores everything else, when in actuality, it should consider the standard Armor at Ballistic 4 to be the highest, then stack the Form-Fitting Armor on top of it. So essentially, Form-Fitting Armor should never be considered for finding the highest Rating for Armor, only added to whatever piece it finds.


He's stacking a 2/7 chain shirt with a 6/2 form fitting body suit and getting a total armor value of 6/9 instead of 8/9.

Posted by: Nebular May 1 2011, 08:14 PM

Yup, so it's considering Form-Fitting Armor when it's looking for the highest Ballistic and Impact Ratings which it shouldn't. This will be fixed in the next update.

Posted by: Nebular May 1 2011, 11:54 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 1 2011, 09:49 AM) *
2: Reaction augmented attribute is stuck at (1) regardless of the normal rating and with or without reaction enhancements.

I was mucking around entering some NPCs for an upcoming game and found that I can't reproduce this issue. All of the characters that had an Augmented Reaction were showing up correctly. Is this still happening to you? If so, could you email me a save file where this is happening (nebular@shaw.ca) and I'll take a look at it to see what's going on.

Posted by: Nebular May 2 2011, 12:35 AM

QUOTE (whatevs @ May 1 2011, 08:05 AM) *
Gear Capactity - It looks like capacity for vehicle modification and weapon modification is working nicely, along with sensors, but it doesn't look like it's being calculated for 'Vision Sensors and Imaging Devices' or 'Audio Sensors and Enhancers'. I purchased contact lenses and earbuds, and then added mods to them beyond the maximum 3 rating. The capacity label is there, but it always states that the maximum capacity for the object is available. I can manage this myself (and have done so in previous versions), just thought I'd point it out. Also, I created a brand new character to test.

This is actually being calculated correctly from my tests. Only plugins with a Capacity that contains [ ] deducts from the parent item's Capacity. I did, however, notice that the Sensors Category was not in the list of allowable plugins for Vision and Audio Sensors, so I've added those to the list.

Posted by: Argent May 2 2011, 02:37 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 1 2011, 06:54 PM) *
I was mucking around entering some NPCs for an upcoming game and found that I can't reproduce this issue. All of the characters that had an Augmented Reaction were showing up correctly. Is this still happening to you? If so, could you email me a save file where this is happening (nebular@shaw.ca) and I'll take a look at it to see what's going on.


Thought it was just me but I have remade my character from scratch. Maybe it has something to do with having a full complement if cyberlimbs. I will be sending you the character over email. Tried it with just one cyberlimb and reaction works fine.

Posted by: Nebular May 2 2011, 03:59 AM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 1 2011, 09:37 PM) *
Thought it was just me but I have remade my character from scratch. Maybe it has something to do with having a full complement if cyberlimbs. I will be sending you the character over email. Tried it with just one cyberlimb and reaction works fine.

Took a look and replied back to your email. I'll post the summary here too, so people can correct my logic if I'm wrong. smile.gif

The character in the save has BOD 1, 5 Cyberlimbs, each with Armor 2, and no other gear. From the way I understand it (and this is where I could be wrong), all of the Armor modifications are applied to the character's Armor Rating, not just the highest, and also count towards Armor Encumbrance. This puts the character's Armor at Ballistic 10 and Impact 10. Both of these are 8 points higher than their BOD allows, so they're suffering a whopping -8 REA penalty from Encumbrance (-4 for being 8 points over each in Ballistic and Impact). When BOD is increased and/or Armor modifications are stripped away, this penalty lessens and REA can finally go above 1.

I'm fairly certain that each of the Armor modifications count towards the character's Armor Rating. I haven't seen any mention of only the highest being applied that I could find. Since they affect the character's Armor Rating, it would also make sense that these count towards Encumbrance as they would be weighing you down.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 2 2011, 04:33 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 1 2011, 11:59 PM) *
Took a look and replied back to your email. I'll post the summary here too, so people can correct my logic if I'm wrong. smile.gif

The character in the save has BOD 1, 5 Cyberlimbs, each with Armor 2, and no other gear. From the way I understand it (and this is where I could be wrong), all of the Armor modifications are applied to the character's Armor Rating, not just the highest, and also count towards Armor Encumbrance. This puts the character's Armor at Ballistic 10 and Impact 10. Both of these are 8 points higher than their BOD allows, so they're suffering a whopping -8 REA penalty from Encumbrance (-4 for being 8 points over each in Ballistic and Impact). When BOD is increased and/or Armor modifications are stripped away, this penalty lessens and REA can finally go above 1.

I'm fairly certain that each of the Armor modifications count towards the character's Armor Rating. I haven't seen any mention of only the highest being applied that I could find. Since they affect the character's Armor Rating, it would also make sense that these count towards Encumbrance as they would be weighing you down.


Well, pretty close but wouldn't 5 cyberlimbs give him an automatic bod of 3 (IIRC cyberlimbs start at 3 in all stats no matter what your natural stat is)? So double 3 is 6 and his armor is only 4 over.

Posted by: Nebular May 2 2011, 04:52 AM

Huh. That raises an interesting point. All of those limbs also had BOD, AGI, and STR 6, so his total BOD is 1 (6). This should then mean that he can support up to 12 Armor without penalties. The real problem then is that the Attributes aren't considering the Cyberlimb enhancements on their own - I'm taking the Attribute value and the stacking these on top, outside of the normal Attribute code. So I just need to move that logic into Attributes instead of where it is and that should solve this problem.

I'll be putting out another update by Wednesday evening since I'm getting this thing ready for the Shadowrun game I'm going to be starting with my gaming group on Friday. Hoping this will make working with NPCs a much less frustrating ordeal (though it did finally push me over the edge and got me to write this thing). smile.gif This will be fixed in the update.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 3 2011, 03:28 AM

What does the added support for Cybersuites entail? Is it just a matter of buy everything in the suite and you get the discount?

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 3 2011, 03:32 AM

Sort of. You have to buy the whole suite at once, and the total is discounted.

Posted by: Nebular May 3 2011, 04:13 AM

Like Yerameyahu said, "sort of". smile.gif A suite is basically a group of Cyberware that you buy as a complete package. All of the items in the suite are added to your character at once. When you buy the suite, the Essence and Nuyen cost are reduced by 10% each. It's geared more towards NPCs though players can take them with GM approval. I put them in there since they can make a GM's life a little easier if they just want to dump in a pre-configured set of Cyberware.

Posted by: Conspiracy X May 3 2011, 09:46 AM

While adding weapon accessories, I noticed that pistols are allowed to have Under mounts.
Under RAW - Pistols (including machine pistols) have a top mount and a barrel mount. (SR4A pg. 311)

I would like to say thank you for a very useful, and excellent program.

Posted by: Nebular May 3 2011, 12:52 PM

I knew something seemed weird about Pistols but I couldn't place my finger on it. I'll have this cleaned up for the next update. I keep seeing "RAW" in other posts and feel a little silly for asking, but what is "RAW"? smile.gif

Posted by: Argent May 3 2011, 01:04 PM

RAW= Rules As Written

Posted by: Nebular May 3 2011, 10:59 PM

Here's the (sort of) mid-week update I had promised. I picked up the Runner's Toolkit on Monday and was blown away by the PACKS book, so I just had to include support for it. It's far too useful to GMs to not include support for it.

Build 63


Posted by: Nebular May 3 2011, 11:50 PM

Argh. Forgot to document that I needed to include the PACKS summary so you know what's in them, the completely forgot to implement it. Another update.

Build 64


Posted by: Bigity May 4 2011, 01:21 AM

Neb you're the man

Posted by: Conspiracy X May 4 2011, 04:45 AM

Looking through the PACKS gear The Basics kit has listed Fake SIM x3 instead of Fake SIN rating 3.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin May 4 2011, 07:56 AM

Don't have the Kit yet, so whats a "Fake Sim" or is that supposed to be Fake SIN?

Posted by: whatevs May 4 2011, 11:53 AM

Love the PACKS addition! Very cool stuff! Lots of potential for customization there also.

Suggestions:

1.) 'Reset' Button For skills / Qualities (to deslect everything)
2.) Houserule section in the options area. With house rule option # 1 as free contact points = cha x 2.
EDIT: 3.) Ohyeah, almost forgot. How about moving all the surge qualities with dependancies away from the main list. They make the qualities lists huge and I feel so rejected when I click on one and it slams me with that `You do not meet the requirements for this quality` message.

Data Issue:

1.) Believe that the Thundercloud Contrail (Racing Bike) has 4 extra slots for 10 slots total. AR 108.

Technical Issue:

1.) Still not getting any love from the mug shots in the character sheets. Getting the same broken link to image. To make it work, I've been converting to HTML and modding using a path to the image.
2.) The gamemaster summary sheet seems to be barfing. Example:

CODE
HumanUnnamed CharacteriVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAANkAAADXCAIAAAAY1mNRAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1
BAACxjwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZcwAADsIAAA7CARUoSoAAAP+lSURBVHhe7L0FfFznlbidNuCYUWaQQbZlMVj
M
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
49erVR48ePXny7Pr1m3fv3n/x4tXjx08fPHj07NmL58/5kac8yN179x7cuXPv1q07N2/evnHjFtd55rt3H7777icqBfp/s/h/+lv3/7z4v8WiSB3oQYYhq2AI5m7dusX5/fv34enMmTNHjx49cuQIx+PHj3ORG+INInkmCPJkbnv27Nm3b9/IkSNXrVrFTx08ePDQoUNr165dsmTZgQOHeHDt2vX79x88f/7i6dNnT548vW3bji1btm3cuJnrK1as4mkLFy6eP3/h9OkzFy1asnnz1hMnTvFrkZgIVHVg6Of/xb/l4j83mZ/6HJx/GjcR/as26TiBPD7mGzduXLp0eefO3evXbwSOXbv2bN++c+nS5eXl44YOLSst7Z6XV1BcXNKtW4+ePXsPHz5yx
oxZixcvhSGeyZGfWrZsBQBxkTV37nyewzPHjBnbq1ef9PRMVnRUfFpqVm6Xwu7deg8dMqJs2KhBA4cNG
T
y8W2mvwoKSjPSchPiUmOiEuNik5KR0npmempHXJb9bSffBA4fMmzP34P4DlRcvXb5Ueff2nXdv3v6If4
2
X/afvf/j+WxYnartW/b8TWf7f9P1/34/0X1ZHq9/9v/ZG+WyQfPK+o0+vX7+OnEOArV+/fuvW7adOnUFcIYpAMCcnNzg41MPDy9zc0tjYlGVmZmFhYWVpaW1n5+Di4ubl5RMWFpGamp6bm5+ZmR0b
G8/iJCMjKzQ0PCQkjB93dnblpxwdnfk93l7+NtYOtjaObq5ePt4BYaFR4WHRHu4+LFcXT0cHVwd7FydHN+7
6+QYFB4VHhkexoiNjYqPjkhISiwoKKyZM3LBu/b49e4HySuXlG9euf/ftR2Ld33/3zbffKP8pEZxyIl6P2uv/fVH7L//6/y9YVAt

Posted by: whatevs May 4 2011, 11:56 AM

QUOTE (Bigity @ May 4 2011, 01:21 AM) *
Neb you're the man


Ditto.

Posted by: Conspiracy X May 4 2011, 12:06 PM

Supposed to be SIN not SIM. Have corrected previous post.
That's what happens when you try to do many things at the same time. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Nebular May 4 2011, 05:28 PM

QUOTE (Conspiracy X @ May 4 2011, 07:06 AM) *
Supposed to be SIN not SIM. Have corrected previous post.
That's what happens when you try to do many things at the same time. biggrin.gif

I took a look at the XML file and it is entered as "Fake SIN". I can't find an occurrence of "Fake SIM" in any of the XML files, and the information isn't hard-coded in the application. You able to post a screen shot of that so I can see what's up? smile.gif

Posted by: Argent May 4 2011, 05:35 PM

The PACKS Kit is awesome!

1. It seems that adapsin and biocompatibility are still doubling the reduced essence of cyberware. Made a new character just to make sure. Even though that is not correct, when you adjust the grade of the cyberware, it does reduce the essence by the correct percentage.

2. I was under the impression that Type O System worked on basic bioware only, not cultured bioware since cultured bioware is tailor made for the recipient. Did they intend to mean "basic bioware" or standard grade bioware? Ie. Not alpha, bravo, or delta grade.

Posted by: Nebular May 4 2011, 05:39 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ May 4 2011, 06:53 AM) *
Love the PACKS addition! Very cool stuff! Lots of potential for customization there also.

Suggestions:

1.) 'Reset' Button For skills / Qualities (to deslect everything)
2.) Houserule section in the options area. With house rule option # 1 as free contact points = cha x 2.
EDIT: 3.) Ohyeah, almost forgot. How about moving all the surge qualities with dependancies away from the main list. They make the qualities lists huge and I feel so rejected when I click on one and it slams me with that `You do not meet the requirements for this quality` message.

Data Issue:

1.) Believe that the Thundercloud Contrail (Racing Bike) has 4 extra slots for 10 slots total. AR 108.

Technical Issue:

1.) Still not getting any love from the mug shots in the character sheets. Getting the same broken link to image. To make it work, I've been converting to HTML and modding using a path to the image.
2.) The gamemaster summary sheet seems to be barfing. Example:

That's wacky. Could you email me a copy of the picture you're trying to use? (nebular@shaw.ca) I tried it with gif, jpg, and png files and I was able to get them to work on my machine. Wonder if it's something to do with the way the image was saved or some other weird stuff.

At the moment, the GM sheet only works if you use the Print Multiple command from the File menu. It's intended to print multiple characters at once and expects a different starting XML tag (<characters> instead of <character>). The same thing happens if you select Print Multiple and then try to use the SR4 sheet. I was tempted to make them both work regardless of printing a single character or multiple characters. Guess I'll do that this evening then. smile.gif

I've added the missing slots to the Contrail. There were 2 other vehicles that were missing this as well. If I can get the image thing fixed up this evening, I should another update ready to go. Nothing big in the app. The only real change I need to make is to add in <bonus /> support for Armor Mods because one silly item from Attitude adds an Intimidation bonus. The rest is all data updates.

Posted by: LonePaladin May 4 2011, 07:06 PM

I would like to see the Qualities list exclude items the character isn't eligible to take -- for instance, a human character shouldn't have "Human-Looking" visible on the list.

Also, it would be helpful if the items with ratings showed those ratings on the gear/cyber lists, so that you can see those figures without having to examine each item individually. (Yes, I know the printed character sheet shows these ratings.) Also, any item that can be bought in quantity should show that quantity on the list, so that you can easily spot goofs (like, say, buying only one bullet).

Posted by: Nebular May 4 2011, 07:59 PM

I tried this once before and found that I couldn't get a multi-column tree to work properly. I found two other controls that may let me do this. I'm going to experiment with them over the next few days and see if I can get this to actually work. Hopefully one of them will actually play nicely and work with mixed objects. nyahnyah.gif

Posted by: Conspiracy X May 4 2011, 10:55 PM

Sorry, for the confusion, but it's not the word SIM that's the problem.
In the XML file for PACKS

Under "The Basics" pack.
Line 2096 has qty instead of rating

QUOTE
<gear>
<name>Fake SIN</name>
<qty>3</qty>
</gear>

Should be:
<gear>
<name>Fake SIN</name>
<rating>3</rating>
</gear>

Posted by: Nebular May 4 2011, 11:39 PM

Good catch. Looks like this was the only one like that. I'll have a fix out this evening.

LonePaladin: I took a look at trying to get things moved into a multi-column tree and it's just not feasible right now. The controls that I find that claim they do it don't allow you to have mixed objects (which is a must for Chummer), and those that allow mixed objects either have a completely different way of doing things that requires a massive amount of the app to be re-written and/or simply break when you try to change their column information, set properties, randomly hang the application, randomly crash the development environment, or simply don't work at all. I've looked at trying to move over to a list, but then I lose everything to do with hierarchy, both in displaying the data in a meaningful way (I could pad it with space to indent, but that's not a good solution), as well as knowing what is a parent and what is a child item which is required for a bunch of other logic. The Microsoft site briefly mentions that a prototype of a mutli-column tree might be inthe latest Windows SDK, but it's not there when you download it. Really wish there was a better way to handle this. frown.gif

Posted by: Nebular May 5 2011, 12:25 AM

More stuff! (whatevs: the image thing is a quick fix to the character sheet file which can be updated on its own, so I can push that out whenever it's done rather than having to wait on code smile.gif)

Build 66


Posted by: LonePaladin May 5 2011, 12:43 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 4 2011, 05:39 PM) *
LonePaladin: I took a look at trying to get things moved into a multi-column tree and it's just not feasible right now.

Have you tried just appending the names, rather than trying to make additional columns?

F'rinstance, listing an item with a quantity as "80 frangible rounds"; something with a rating would be "Vision enhancement (rating 2)".

I know what you're going through; I'm trying to make my own character-creator in a different platform (one that's made specifically for building this sort of thing), and it's just not wanting to behave right now. Hopefully, I'll have the tricky parts handled before this summer's over. Hopefully.

Posted by: Nebular May 5 2011, 01:06 AM

QUOTE (LonePaladin @ May 4 2011, 06:43 PM) *
Have you tried just appending the names, rather than trying to make additional columns?

F'rinstance, listing an item with a quantity as "80 frangible rounds"; something with a rating would be "Vision enhancement (rating 2)".

I know what you're going through; I'm trying to make my own character-creator in a different platform (one that's made specifically for building this sort of thing), and it's just not wanting to behave right now. Hopefully, I'll have the tricky parts handled before this summer's over. Hopefully.

That is likely the route I will go. Earlier today I was thinking that might not work because the name of the item would keep changing, but then I remember I was smart and gave everything a unique ID to address that issue (except for Qualities - they're still completely screwy). I guess I was just hoping that those stupid view controls would work. smile.gif Oh well. This should be in for this weekend's update.

Posted by: Nebular May 5 2011, 01:22 AM

Just updated the SR4 character sheet. Forgot to change over some things like Attributes and Skills to get them to look in the proper place now that the sheet allows multiple characters.

Posted by: Conspiracy X May 5 2011, 09:24 AM

Vision Enhancements and Audio Enhancement need to have [capacity] added to them so they reduce the number of slots available to the Device they are in.
Example
Contacts (Rating 3), have a capacity of 3.
Add Smartlink, the Contacts capacity should drop to 2
Add Image Link, the Contacts capacity should drop to 1
Add Low-Light, Contacts capacity used up.


Posted by: Argent May 5 2011, 12:29 PM

1. In both the weapon tab and the vehicle tab, weapon mod button takes you to vehicle mod selections.

2. Adapsin and biocompatibility are still doubling the reduced essence of cyberware. Made a new character just to make sure.

3. Type O System works on basic bioware only, not cultured bioware since cultured bioware is tailor made.
"Off the rack, basic bioware is considered delta grade..." AU pg 20

4. Genetic Heritage starts a character with one "free" genetic mod and only transgenic enhancement costs are reduced by 20%. Currently all genetic enh are reduced by 20% and no free enh. AU pg 20

5. Cost corrections below:
Genewipe 60000
Shuffle 40000
Physical vigor 350000
Adapsin 40000
Dareadren 40000
Dyno 30000
Hyper 25000
NEO 35000
Qualia 40000
Reakt 45000
Vasocon 30000

Posted by: Nebular May 5 2011, 12:51 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 5 2011, 07:29 AM) *
5. Cost corrections below:
Genewipe 60000
Shuffle 40000
Physical vigor 350000
Adapsin 40000
Dareadren 40000
Dyno 30000
Hyper 25000
NEO 35000
Qualia 40000
Reakt 45000
Vasocon 30000

Eh?! Do you have a revised copy of the book or something, because the prices in the XML file are the ones listed in my book. Page 3 of mine shows it as "Version 1.0 (July 2007)" and there doesn't appear to be an errata for the book.

Posted by: Argent May 5 2011, 01:38 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 5 2011, 08:51 AM) *
Eh?! Do you have a revised copy of the book or something, because the prices in the XML file are the ones listed in my book. Page 3 of mine shows it as "Version 1.0 (July 2007)" and there doesn't appear to be an errata for the book.


Hmmm. Looks like the prices in the tables in the back of the book differ from what is in the genetech chapter. I would go with the chapter info until an errata comes out. I have first printing 2007 as well.

Posted by: Nebular May 5 2011, 02:00 PM

Actually, I just remembered that the Runner's Toolkit comes with a Compiled Tables book and lists all of this stuff. Since it's brand spankin' new, I think it's safe to assume that the prices in it are correct. The numbers in the Compiled Tables book match the ones found in the Genetech chapter, so it looks like the tables at the back of Augmentation are the incorrect values.

Posted by: Nebular May 5 2011, 07:02 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 5 2011, 07:29 AM) *
2. Adapsin and biocompatibility are still doubling the reduced essence of cyberware. Made a new character just to make sure.

This is how it's supposed to work, isn't it? For example, Aluminum Bone Lacing has an ESS cost of 1. With only Adapsin or Biocompatibility, its cost is reduced to 0.9. If both are selected, it should reduce the ESS cost to 0.81, shouldn't it? This is how it's currently behaving. ((0.9 * 0.9) * ESS Cost).

Edit: Whoops! I see what you're saying now. I was just looking in the Select Cyberware window. The window is correct. The cost after you add it to the character, however, is way off. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Nebular May 6 2011, 12:05 AM

OK. Forget the weekend update. How does now sound? Good? Good. smile.gif
With any luck I'll be able to start working on the character maintenance part this weekend.

Build 67


Posted by: LonePaladin May 6 2011, 12:28 AM

Looks like the quantity/rating list is working properly, and pretty much matches what I was asking 100%. Nice.

One thing I've noticed, though, is a weird quirk in the quantity field for ammo. (Haven't yet seen this anywhere else.) If you click on something that isn't ammo, and then select an ammo-type item in your list, its quantity drops back to 10. Going from one ammo type to another doesn't cause this -- just going from non-ammo to ammo.

Now, two further requests. 'Cause, really, what's a program like this without feature creep?

With the inclusion of the "Custom placeholder" item, this might be a good time to consider adding drag-and-drop to the gear list, allowing the user to move items into containers (such as the Smart Pack, and the aforementioned placeholder). If the gear list in the printout doesn't account for this sort of organization, though, there's not really much point. (I'd like to see the gear and cyber lists formatted a little differently, myself, 'cause some items need some notes to remind the player just what they do.)

Second request's easier. Spells need the option to learn them as 'limited' versions (the ones that require fetishes). This option makes the Drain Value lower. (I sort of miss the way they handled it before, where some fetishes were expendable, and spells could have the limitation of being exclusive.)

Posted by: Nebular May 6 2011, 01:07 AM

Another update to address the rather serious issue of the Spells list not loading, and adding in two of LonePaladin's items for good measure. I'll look into the drag-and-drop thing either this weekend or next week.

Build 68


Posted by: whatevs May 6 2011, 02:33 AM

Looks, great. Noticed one thing:

Nonconductivity Cost: When I change the rating of non-con on my armor vest, the cost stays at the orginally selected cost. Seems like this happens with all armors and mod combinations

Posted by: Nebular May 6 2011, 02:40 AM

Gah. Well, the good news is that the cost information IS being updated, you just don't see the change as it happens. If you select the piece of Armor again, its new total will be shown, but the character's Nuyen amount isn't updated. If you change any character value or add/remove another item from anywhere, the Nuyen remaining is updated correctly. Looks like I forgot to call the update method when the Armor Mod's Rating changes.

Posted by: LonePaladin May 6 2011, 04:46 AM

Found another one.

For some reason, in packs.xml, the "Sneaky" skill kit has "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx4" on the rating for Infiltration. Picking this pack throws an exception, which shouldn't be a surprise.

Didn't see any other oddities like that.

The reason I was looking there? I was trying to see if it were possible to create custom packs that added Knowledge skills and/or languages, but that doesn't seem to be an option. The wiki only lists Active skills, and it seems that none of the packs in the XML file do it. I wanted to make a custom file for the http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Docs/PACKS_Platinum.pdf that AncientHistory put together, but it has things like prerequisites and Knowledge skills. So I'm not sure if Chummer can handle them yet.

Posted by: Nebular May 6 2011, 12:49 PM

The packs.xml file has been updated so you can grab it through Chummer's update.

I'll add support for Knowledge Skills to the list of stuff to do. Should be pretty quick to drop that in.

Posted by: Nebular May 6 2011, 10:59 PM

Nothing major, but I figured I might as well put out this last batch of changes before I start working on the career mode which is going to keep any updates from being released for the next handful of days.

Build 69


Posted by: Nebular May 8 2011, 09:36 PM

Well, things progressed much more quickly than I thought they would which is always nice. So here's the nice little addition of Career Mode!

Build 73



Career Mode
Once your character is ready to run, you can put them into Career Mode. Career Mode lets you maintain your character using Karma throughout their running career. Career Mode lets you keep track of your Karma and Nuyen expenses, buy and sell Gear, and even keep track of Ammo in each Weapon. To put your character in Career Mode, go to the Character Info tab, check the Mark character as Created box, then click Save. The save process makes sure that your character meets all BP/Karma and Nuyen total rules before saving. Once the character has been saved, they are re-opened in Career Mode. Once a character has been put into Career Mode, you cannot go back to Build Mode.

Posted by: LonePaladin May 9 2011, 06:11 AM

Looking good, Neb. Here's the latest observations:


Also, time for more requests.

That's all I could think of on short notice.

Posted by: Nebular May 9 2011, 01:05 PM

The sheet has been fixed up to correct Strength and Bound Spirits. The Total Karma thing is next up on my list.

Can't believe I forgot about adding gear for free. This should be in the next update. And I thought I had it all covered. smile.gif

Posted by: LonePaladin May 9 2011, 03:34 PM

That's why you've got me here.

Edit: Just saw a couple things that need addressing, while trying to get my players' sheets entered.


Posted by: Nebular May 9 2011, 11:06 PM

Fixed stuff! I'll take a look at Custom Lifestyles and see if I can add them in. Figured I'll put this out since it fixes some things rather than holding it up with the Lifestyle bit. biggrin.gif

Build 74


Posted by: Conspiracy X May 9 2011, 11:42 PM

I was just looking at Exotic Ranged and Melee weapons. Under RAW they have no Specializations, but you are supposed to select the weapon as part of the skill. Also you can select it multiple times with a seperate skill each time. SR4A: 122.
It's the same for Pilot Exotic Vehicle.

Would this be to hard to implement?

Also is there a way to change a specialization or remove a specialization from a skill?

My players wish to pass on a big thanks to Neb for Chummer.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 10 2011, 01:11 AM

Adding any of the Adept Ways from the book "Way of the Adept" causes an unhandled exception error. Tried in both 400BP and 750 Karma mode, same results. Edit: And yes, I made sure to select Adept first.

CODE
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at Chummer.frmCreate.HandleQualityToggle(TreeView treQualities, TreeViewCancelEventArgs e, String strForceValue)
   at Chummer.frmCreate.trePositiveQualities_BeforeCheck(Object sender, TreeViewCancelEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.OnBeforeCheck(TreeViewCancelEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.TreeViewBeforeCheck(TreeNode node, TreeViewAction actionTaken)
   at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.225 (RTMGDR.030319-2200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Chummer
    Assembly Version: 0.0.0.74
    Win32 Version: 0.0.0.74
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Martin/Desktop/Shadowrun/Chummer.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

Posted by: Argent May 10 2011, 02:39 AM

Debugging:

1. When choosing Mystic Adept, your adept powers rating should be limited by the total magic attribute, not by the power points you have assigned. SR4 pg 195 example.

ie. If you have magic attribute of 4 and spend 1 magic point for a power point you can still get critical strike level 4 but can only cast up to force 3 spells before it becomes physical drain.

Posted by: Nebular May 10 2011, 03:10 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ May 9 2011, 08:11 PM) *
Adding any of the Adept Ways from the book "Way of the Adept" causes an unhandled exception error. Tried in both 400BP and 750 Karma mode, same results. Edit: And yes, I made sure to select Adept first.

Data file has been updated to correct this.

Posted by: Nebular May 10 2011, 03:19 AM

QUOTE (Conspiracy X @ May 9 2011, 06:42 PM) *
I was just looking at Exotic Ranged and Melee weapons. Under RAW they have no Specializations, but you are supposed to select the weapon as part of the skill. Also you can select it multiple times with a seperate skill each time. SR4A: 122.
It's the same for Pilot Exotic Vehicle.

Would this be to hard to implement?

Uh... I don't know. I'll have to take a look. smile.gif

QUOTE (Conspiracy X @ May 9 2011, 06:42 PM) *
Also is there a way to change a specialization or remove a specialization from a skill?

In Create Mode it's just a matter of going into the Specialization field and typing in your new value, or selecting it from the drop down list, or just pressing delete with everything highlighted to clear it. Once it's empty, it realises there's no Specialization and puts it back to normal.

In Career Mode, you need to click on the + button to the right of the Specialization. This will cost you 2 Karma and let you change it to the new value. If you set it to blank when changing it through Karma, it will remove the Specialization bonus but still eat up the 2 Karma.

Posted by: Nebular May 10 2011, 03:37 AM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 9 2011, 09:39 PM) *
Debugging:

1. When choosing Mystic Adept, your adept powers rating should be limited by the total magic attribute, not by the power points you have assigned. SR4 pg 195 example.

ie. If you have magic attribute of 4 and spend 1 magic point for a power point you can still get critical strike level 4 but can only cast up to force 3 spells before it becomes physical drain.

This will be fixed in the next update.

Posted by: Conspiracy X May 10 2011, 03:47 AM

The version I was running disabled the specialization dropdown when it lost focus.
I've updated it and the problems fixed.
Thank you.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin May 10 2011, 08:58 AM

Small request for some additional character info: You've already got Character Name on the common tab, but can we add an Alias for their street name and also the Player's Name so its obvious who's character it is.

Also, it would be nice if we could specify the magical tradition a character follows (i.e. Hermetic or Shamanic) maybe put this on the spells/spirits tab. It would be nice if once the tradition is specified it listed the allowed spirits that can be summoned by the character. It would also be nice if it listed for the spells the drain resistant test to be made since Shamans and Hermetics use different Attribute combinations.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin May 10 2011, 09:09 AM

Just noticed, the stats for the Ares Viper Slivergun look wrong... the AP should be +5 and not +2 that shows up on the character sheet for a character I just entered. the SR4a page number in the info is also wrong and should be page 318 for the table of Heavy Pistols... unless you are referencing the text for the gun which is on page 317.

Not sure, but my guess would be most people are more interested with the page number for the table with the weapon stats and from there they can scan forward or back a page or two for the description text.

Posted by: Nebular May 10 2011, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ May 10 2011, 04:09 AM) *
Just noticed, the stats for the Ares Viper Slivergun look wrong... the AP should be +5 and not +2 that shows up on the character sheet for a character I just entered. the SR4a page number in the info is also wrong and should be page 318 for the table of Heavy Pistols... unless you are referencing the text for the gun which is on page 317.

Not sure, but my guess would be most people are more interested with the page number for the table with the weapon stats and from there they can scan forward or back a page or two for the description text.

The Slivergun's AP is correct from what I can see. The book lists its AP as +2, not +5, at least in the printing that I have.

The page numbers are intended to represent where you can find the description of the item, not the table, so that you can find the detailed information for something like Wired Reflexes without hunting it down. All of the table information is already presented in the application, so telling you where the description is seems more fitting. To keep everything consistent, all page numbers refer to the description page. I do not plan on mixing it so that some point to the table while others point to a description.

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ May 10 2011, 03:58 AM) *
Small request for some additional character info: You've already got Character Name on the common tab, but can we add an Alias for their street name and also the Player's Name so its obvious who's character it is.

Also, it would be nice if we could specify the magical tradition a character follows (i.e. Hermetic or Shamanic) maybe put this on the spells/spirits tab. It would be nice if once the tradition is specified it listed the allowed spirits that can be summoned by the character. It would also be nice if it listed for the spells the drain resistant test to be made since Shamans and Hermetics use different Attribute combinations.

Alias and player name are easy enough to drop in. Those should be in the next update. I'll also look into the Tradition and Spirit thing. This came up at my last game but it never clicked that I should do this. smile.gif

Posted by: LonePaladin May 10 2011, 05:07 PM

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ May 10 2011, 02:58 AM) *
Also, it would be nice if we could specify the magical tradition a character follows (i.e. Hermetic or Shamanic) maybe put this on the spells/spirits tab.

Be sure to allow for custom traditions. My wife's character went down this route, and if the program limited me to the traditions in the book it would totally bork her stats.

Posted by: Nebular May 10 2011, 05:37 PM

QUOTE (LonePaladin @ May 10 2011, 12:07 PM) *
Be sure to allow for custom traditions. My wife's character went down this route, and if the program limited me to the traditions in the book it would totally bork her stats.

There will be a traditions.xml file which, like the rest, will allow custom_traditions.xml to have custom stuff. smile.gif There won't be a huge impact with these. In place of the text box where you enter the name of the Spirit, there will instead be a drop down that you can type in, identical to the Skill Specialization one. Selecting a Tradition will simply pre-fill the options in the drop down and show you what your Drain Attributes are. You can select one of the Spirits from the pre-filled items, or type in a different one.

Posted by: ggodo May 10 2011, 06:10 PM

Can I make one request? Can we have the option to ban SURGE? I don't want my power-gamer to get into it, but want to use the rest of Runner's Companion. I have no idea how to edit anything, but if that's something that customization can handle I'd like to know how.

Posted by: Nebular May 10 2011, 07:42 PM

QUOTE (ggodo @ May 10 2011, 12:10 PM) *
Can I make one request? Can we have the option to ban SURGE? I don't want my power-gamer to get into it, but want to use the rest of Runner's Companion. I have no idea how to edit anything, but if that's something that customization can handle I'd like to know how.

Unfortunately this isn't somehting the custom data files can handle - they're only for adding custom content, and including content from a book is an all or nothing affair. This is one of those things where you'll have to tell the player that SURGE is off-limits. And if he tries to take any SURGE-related stuff, whomp 'em with a heavy book or other blunt object you have handy. biggrin.gif

Posted by: ggodo May 10 2011, 08:31 PM

Oh, I've been doing that. The real downside is that the SURGE stuff is confusing to the new players I've got this campaign. I have no idea how this program functions, I was just wondering if an off switch would be possible.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin May 10 2011, 08:44 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 10 2011, 06:18 AM) *
The Slivergun's AP is correct from what I can see. The book lists its AP as +2, not +5, at least in the printing that I have.


Out of curiosity, is there a corrected printing of the Shadowrun 20th Anniversary edition then? My SR4A book lists the Ares Viper Slivergun as 8P(f) damage, +5 AP, SA/BF, 30 shot clip, 5R availability, and 500 nuyen. From the table on page 318 of my book under Heavy Pistols.

Just looked at the SR4 errata version 1.8 for the non anniversary edition on the Catalyst Shadowrun sight... They have a correction for a lot of Flechette round guns from page 307 to 309 that correct the AP from +2 to +5. If your using the older book, just thought you should know. The Ares Viper Slivergun is listed in the errata as well as the Remington Roomsweeper... Pretty much all flechette round guns should have a +5 AP as far as I can tell.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 10 2011, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (ggodo @ May 10 2011, 01:10 PM) *
Can I make one request? Can we have the option to ban SURGE? I don't want my power-gamer to get into it, but want to use the rest of Runner's Companion. I have no idea how to edit anything, but if that's something that customization can handle I'd like to know how.


Edit: Never mind addressed.

Posted by: Nebular May 10 2011, 11:30 PM

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ May 10 2011, 03:44 PM) *
Out of curiosity, is there a corrected printing of the Shadowrun 20th Anniversary edition then? My SR4A book lists the Ares Viper Slivergun as 8P(f) damage, +5 AP, SA/BF, 30 shot clip, 5R availability, and 500 nuyen. From the table on page 318 of my book under Heavy Pistols.

Just looked at the SR4 errata version 1.8 for the non anniversary edition on the Catalyst Shadowrun sight... They have a correction for a lot of Flechette round guns from page 307 to 309 that correct the AP from +2 to +5. If your using the older book, just thought you should know. The Ares Viper Slivergun is listed in the errata as well as the Remington Roomsweeper... Pretty much all flechette round guns should have a +5 AP as far as I can tell.

Actually, I took a look at my physical copy of the book and it indeed shows +5. My PDF copy shows it at +2. Really wish there was a printing date in these books so I knew which one is correct. I believe my PDF copy arrived LONG before the physical one did, so I'm going to work under the assumption that my PDF copy is out-of-date and that the physical book is correct. This will be corrected in the next update (which will be out very soon - like in the next 30 minutes or so soon).

Posted by: Nebular May 10 2011, 11:52 PM

More goodies!

Build 75


Posted by: Argent May 11 2011, 01:04 PM

Debugging:

When essence is lost, magic attribute and magic attribute max is reduced. So I make an adept with bioware. His original magic attribute was 6 and I reduced his essence to 4.4 Currently the attribute display for magic is 4 for natural, which is correctly calculated but the max attribute remains at 1/6 (6). It should display 1/4 (4). So if he ever initiates twice it should display 1/6 (6). SR4A pg 68

Ok found another thing, when the magic is reduced for essence loss, it gives me back build points for each reduction of 1. So current attribute bp spent is 265, select synaptic boost 2 and the bp drops to 255, when selecting muscle tone 4 the bps drop to 245. My magic is now 4. So I delete all the bioware and the bps correctly calculate to 230 because the magic stays at 4. I manually bring it back to 6 and the bps are back at 265. Original attributes below. Maybe the augmented magic should be displayed in the augmented column so as to not effect the BP calculations. Example display. Magic 6 (4) 1/4 (4)

Bod 4
Agil 6
Rea 3
Str 4
Cha 3
Int 3
Log 5
Wil 3
Edg 1
Mag 6

Posted by: Argent May 11 2011, 01:04 PM

Debugging:

When essence is lost, magic attribute and magic attribute max is reduced. So I make an adept with bioware. His original magic attribute was 6 and I reduced his essence to 4.4 Currently the attribute display for magic is 4 for natural, which is correctly calculated but the max attribute remains at 1/6 (6). It should display 1/4 (4). So if he ever initiates twice it should display 1/6 (6). SR4A pg 68

Ok found another thing, when the magic is reduced for essence loss, it gives me back build points for each reduction of 1. So current attribute bp spent is 265, select synaptic boost 2 and the bp drops to 255, when selecting muscle tone 4 the bps drop to 245. My magic is now 4. So I delete all the bioware and the bps correctly calculate to 230 because the magic stays at 4. I manually bring it back to 6 and the bps are back at 265. Original attributes below. Maybe the augmented magic should be displayed in the augmented column so as to not effect the BP calculations. Example display. Magic 6 (4) 1/4 (4)

Bod 4
Agil 6
Rea 3
Str 4
Cha 3
Int 3
Log 5
Wil 3
Edg 1
Mag 6

Posted by: Nebular May 11 2011, 03:13 PM

I'll take a look at the Magic/Essence thing this weekend which is likely when I'll next have some time.

I've just gone through the Compiled Tables book that comes with the Runner's Toolkit and updated a bunch of stuff since the numbers in there are the closest we're probably getting to errata for much of anything. Only Gear, Weapons, Cyberware, Powers, Spells, and Vehicles were affected. Nothing too major on the Vehicles, Gear, and Spells side - just a few minor corrections to Availability, Speed, and DV. For Cyberware, the Larger Smuggling Compartment dropped from 100,000 Nuyen and 20R down to 2,000 Nuyen and 6. Added the first page of Blades I was missing from Arsenal, changed the AP of a number of weapons (for the record, the Slivergun is indeed AP +5 according to the revised table, so it is my old PDF that's wrong). Adept Power Improved Physical Attribute changed from .75/level to 1/level. The updated files are availble for grabb through Chummer's Update.

Posted by: Argent May 11 2011, 10:29 PM

Debugging:

Whenever you add a mod to a weapon in the street gear tab by pressing the add & more button, a window always pops up that says "weapon mods can only be added to vehicle weapons" but it still adds the mod after you ok the window. If you just press the ok button then the warning/error window does not pop up.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin May 11 2011, 11:55 PM

How hard would it be to add the ranges in for Ranged Weapons on the character sheet? I've seen other character sheets add in the ranges so I don't think this little addition would violate any copyright, but then again I'm not a lawyer.

Posted by: Nebular May 12 2011, 01:26 AM

I was actually thinking about the same thing earlier today! I'll take a look at having this in the next update. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Argent May 12 2011, 01:37 AM

Missing Weapon Accessories:

SR4A pg 322
Bipod - Under
Gas Vent 2 and 3 - Barrel
Gyro Stabilization - Under
Imaging Scope - Top
Laser Sight - Top/Under
Periscope - Top
Silencer - Barrel
Smart Firing Platform - Under
Smartgun System, External - Top/Under
Sound Suppresser - Barrel
Tripod - Under

Arsenal pg 33-34
Bayonet - Barrel
Flashlight (Standard/Low-Light/Infrared) - Top/Under
Foregrip - Under
Guncam - Top/Under
Underbarrel (Bola Launcher/Flamethrower/Grapple Gun) - Under
Underbarrel Weight - Under

War! pg 155-156
Blade Bayonet - Barrel
Device Mount - Top/Under
Flick Bayonet - Barrel

Posted by: Nebular May 12 2011, 01:42 AM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 11 2011, 07:37 PM) *
Missing Weapon Accessories:

SR4A pg 322
Bipod - Under
Gas Vent 2 and 3 - Barrel
Gyro Stabilization - Under
Imaging Scope - Top
Laser Sight - Top/Under
Periscope - Top
Silencer - Barrel
Smart Firing Platform - Under
Smartgun System, External - Top/Under
Sound Suppresser - Barrel
Tripod - Under

Arsenal pg 33-34
Bayonet - Barrel
Flashlight (Standard/Low-Light/Infrared) - Top/Under
Foregrip - Under
Guncam - Top/Under
Underbarrel (Bola Launcher/Flamethrower/Grapple Gun) - Under
Underbarrel Weight - Under

War! pg 155-156
Blade Bayonet - Barrel
Device Mount - Top/Under
Flick Bayonet - Barrel

All of those are there. Make sure you're not selecting weapons that already have those mount slots consumed. I took a Colt M23 and found all of these in the list. Not every weapons has all slots free, either because an included accessory consumes them, or because the weapon simply doesn't allow them.

Posted by: longbowrocks May 12 2011, 04:56 AM

QUOTE (ggodo @ May 10 2011, 01:31 PM) *
Oh, I've been doing that. The real downside is that the SURGE stuff is confusing to the new players I've got this campaign. I have no idea how this program functions, I was just wondering if an off switch would be possible.

There's a nifty SURGE quality that makes me immune to books if read in French. Can I have it? Pleeeaaassee?

Posted by: longbowrocks May 12 2011, 04:58 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 10 2011, 04:30 PM) *
Actually, I took a look at my physical copy of the book and it indeed shows +5. My PDF copy shows it at +2. Really wish there was a printing date in these books so I knew which one is correct. I believe my PDF copy arrived LONG before the physical one did, so I'm going to work under the assumption that my PDF copy is out-of-date and that the physical book is correct. This will be corrected in the next update (which will be out very soon - like in the next 30 minutes or so soon).

The one with a max strength rating of 8 for bows is the newer one. I cried.

*edit: that said, I have nothing against a pre-errata chargen.

Posted by: Argent May 12 2011, 12:29 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 11 2011, 09:42 PM) *
All of those are there. Make sure you're not selecting weapons that already have those mount slots consumed. I took a Colt M23 and found all of these in the list. Not every weapons has all slots free, either because an included accessory consumes them, or because the weapon simply doesn't allow them.


Roger. I found a couple more issues.

1. Weapons that come with accessories are actually considered built in mods. Arsenal pg 148. A gas vent modded weapon can be equipped with a silencer or suppresser (accessory or a mod). Currently the silencer accessory disapears when either the gas vent is modded to the weapon or if the weapon comes with one. This does not apply if the gas vent is an accessory.

2. Weapon mods can be uninstalled, except for gas vents (WTF!!!) in order to accommodate other mods or accessories. Arsenal pg 129-130. Can you make it where pre installed mods can be removed, including underbarrel weapons.

3. When selecting underbarrel flamethrower, can you include an add weapon button so we can select a particular flame thrower.

4. Can you add a select gear button for the Device Mount mod.

5. Underbarrel Weapon mod is missing. When added can you make so that we can select a particular weapon for that mod.

6. Can you add an option for appropriate mods to be Exhangeable Weapon Mods.

7. Power slide mount is missing.

8. When adding a bayonet mount mod, bayonets no longer take up barrel slot. So I could actually add another barrel mounted accessory such as a silencer or gas vent accessory. Currently the bayonet still takes up the barrel slot.

Posted by: Argent May 12 2011, 03:07 PM

Another thing:

Colt Manhunter with laser sight. The laser sight should be built in mod, taking up no top/under mounted position. All top/bottom mounted accessories should be displayed, currently they are not. I think the easiest solution is to default display all mods/accessories and make the player keep track of what goes where instead of removing options once a position is filled.

Posted by: Argent May 12 2011, 04:30 PM

YNT Softweave Armor Option is not available. Arsenal pg 161

Posted by: LonePaladin May 12 2011, 04:51 PM

Heh. Looks like you've started the flurry of users. I've been there myself!

Since I can't post anything here without adding to the inbox, here's another. twirl.gif

I'm unable to use Chummer on my netbook, because the odd display size (1024 x 600) cuts off the Knowledge skills completely. Any chance of giving this part its own tab?

Posted by: Nebular May 12 2011, 06:41 PM

QUOTE (LonePaladin @ May 12 2011, 11:51 AM) *
Heh. Looks like you've started the flurry of users. I've been there myself!

Since I can't post anything here without adding to the inbox, here's another. twirl.gif

I'm unable to use Chummer on my netbook, because the odd display size (1024 x 600) cuts off the Knowledge skills completely. Any chance of giving this part its own tab?

Try maximising the window. I put in code a while back to resize everything when the window size changes for the requeste you made a while back. biggrin.gif I can shrink my window down to 1024 x 600 and the contents of the Skills tab shrink to let everything fit.

Posted by: Nebular May 12 2011, 06:42 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 12 2011, 11:30 AM) *
YNT Softweave Armor Option is not available. Arsenal pg 161

This will be in the next update. I knew I saw this somewhere before (it's in War! by the way - right page, wrong book wink.gif) but wasn't sure how I was going to handle this. Turned out to be much easier than I thought it would be. I'll take a look at the Weapon Accessory/Mod stuff this weekend.

Weapon Ranges will also be in the next update.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 12 2011, 07:05 PM

QUOTE (LonePaladin @ May 12 2011, 12:51 PM) *
Heh. Looks like you've started the flurry of users. I've been there myself!

Since I can't post anything here without adding to the inbox, here's another. twirl.gif

I'm unable to use Chummer on my netbook, because the odd display size (1024 x 600) cuts off the Knowledge skills completely. Any chance of giving this part its own tab?


Works just fine on my netbook as long as I hit the maximize button.

Posted by: LonePaladin May 12 2011, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 12 2011, 01:41 PM) *
Try maximising the window. I put in code a while back to resize everything when the window size changes for the requeste you made a while back. biggrin.gif I can shrink my window down to 1024 x 600 and the contents of the Skills tab shrink to let everything fit.

I'll take another look at it tomorrow. For now, I'm trying to get everything from that PACKS PDF I linked earlier into a custom file.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 12 2011, 07:34 PM

I'm pretty sure the Delta-amaloid and related mods don't have a variable rating.

Posted by: Nebular May 12 2011, 07:46 PM

They don't. Armor Mods are structured a little differently. I should go back and fix this so it doesn't incorrectly show them as being Rating 1 since you can't actually change it.

Posted by: redwulf25 May 12 2011, 07:52 PM

And I just tried to create an NPC prime runner using Karma gen. While I can initiate him and raise his magic I get an unhandled exception error when I try to add meta-magic. He is an adept in case this only happens with adepts not magicians.

Posted by: Leoric May 12 2011, 09:45 PM

Are you planning to support these options?
- Handling Ally spirits
- IA or free spirit PC
- Optional rules, like power point instead of metamagic for adept initiation, maybe a checkbox to handle cybersuites for PC, rules of overmodifications for vehicules, etc...
- customized spells, for example I have a PC who cast waterballs, not fireballs.

By the way, the CCG doesn't calculate correctly essence costs with multiple reductions: for example if I create a PC with biocompatibility (10% essence cost reduction), adding adapsin (another 10%), and give him an alphaware wired reflex 1 (essence cost: 2, -20% for alpha grade), the final essence cost should be 1,2 because 10% + 10% + 20% = 40% per RAW. the CCG shows a final cost of 1,3.

Posted by: Nebular May 12 2011, 09:55 PM

QUOTE (Leoric @ May 12 2011, 04:45 PM) *
Are you planning to support these options?
- Handling Ally spirits
- IA or free spirit PC
- Optional rules, like power point instead of metamagic for adept initiation, maybe a checkbox to handle cybersuites for PC, rules of overmodifications for vehicules, etc...
- customized spells, for example I have a PC who cast waterballs, not fireballs.

By the way, the CCG doesn't calculate correctly essence costs with multiple reductions: for example if I create a PC with biocompatibility (10% essence cost reduction), adding adapsin (another 10%), and give him an alphaware wired reflex 1 (essence cost: 2, -20% for alpha grade), the final essence cost should be 1,2 because 10% + 10% + 20% = 40% per RAW. the CCG shows a final cost of 1,3.

I have no plans to support Free Spirits or AIs right now. They're completely different in terms of character creation and break most of the rules.

I'll have to take a look at Ally Spirits at some point and see what will be involved.

Vehicles can currently be overmodified - you can exceed their capacity by just adding more stuff to it. I intentionally left that open so players could decide to either stay within the rules or go over. Cybersuites was the same basic thinking - it's always there. If GMs allow it, they can grab a suite from the menu. If not, then no clicky! smile.gif

That Essence cost thing is turning out to be a huge pain in the butt! I thought I had the formula nailed down but I clearly don't. Hopefully next update then! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Yerameyahu May 12 2011, 09:55 PM

Is that broken US RAW or unreleased German Errata RAW? smile.gif

Posted by: Nebular May 12 2011, 09:56 PM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ May 12 2011, 02:52 PM) *
And I just tried to create an NPC prime runner using Karma gen. While I can initiate him and raise his magic I get an unhandled exception error when I try to add meta-magic. He is an adept in case this only happens with adepts not magicians.

Fixed in next update. It works great if you're a Technomancer. Nuts to everyone else! wobble.gif

Posted by: Nebular May 12 2011, 09:57 PM

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 12 2011, 04:55 PM) *
Is that broken US RAW or unreleased German Errata RAW? smile.gif

In regards to which item? The Essence calculation thingy?

Posted by: LonePaladin May 12 2011, 10:13 PM

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 12 2011, 04:55 PM) *
Is that broken US RAW or unreleased German Errata RAW? smile.gif

I'm quoting this in my sig.

Posted by: Argent May 12 2011, 10:58 PM

QUOTE (Leoric @ May 12 2011, 05:45 PM) *
By the way, the CCG doesn't calculate correctly essence costs with multiple reductions: for example if I create a PC with biocompatibility (10% essence cost reduction), adding adapsin (another 10%), and give him an alphaware wired reflex 1 (essence cost: 2, -20% for alpha grade), the final essence cost should be 1,2 because 10% + 10% + 20% = 40% per RAW. the CCG shows a final cost of 1,3.


You are not entirely correct. The specific wording for biocompatability says "the essence cost of implant of a particular chosen type are reduced by 10%". This tells me that essence cost of that item, whether it is standard, second hand, apha, beta, or delta, must be calculated first and then you reduce it by 10% for biocompatability:

Standard Grade Cyberarm = 1.0 reduce essence cost by 10% for biocompatability 1.0*0.9 = 0.9

Alpha grade cyberarm = 1.0*0.8 = 0.8 then reduce essence cost of alpha cyberarm by 10% 0.8*0.9 = .72

I did reread adapsin and it does specifically say that the 10% "reduction is in addition to reductions from higher grade cyberware" so I can see the argument for adding the percentages together before reducing the essence cost. There really is nothing RAW that tells you exactly how the reductions interact with each other not even an example in augmentation book, just interpretations.

Reading over everything I still beleive the reductions should be calculated in stages instead of added all together and then reducing the essence.

Ex. Alpha Cyberarm = 0.8 Essence, then biocompatability 0.8*0.9= 0.72 then adapsin 0.72*0.9= 0.648 = 0.65

At the most generous I would say maybe adding adapsin and biocompatability then reducing whatever grade cyberware it is.

Ex. Alpha Cyberarm = 0.8 Essence, then Biocompatability + Adapsin 0.8*(0.8 )= 0.64

Posted by: Nebular May 13 2011, 02:23 AM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 12 2011, 05:58 PM) *
Reading over everything I still beleive the reductions should be calculated in stages instead of added all together and then reducing the essence.

Ex. Alpha Cyberarm = 0.8 Essence, then biocompatability 0.8*0.9= 0.72 then adapsin 0.72*0.9= 0.648 = 0.65

This one makes the most sense to me. Basically diminishing returns so that the more modifiers you have, the less meaningful they become, which makes sense to me and keeps people from abusing things. With 3 bonuses of -10%, -20%, and -30% on a single character with a 10 Ess cost piece of 'ware for example, it's the different between 4 Ess (-60% = 10 * 0.4 = 4) and 5.04 Ess (10 * 0.9 = 9 * 0.8 = 7.2 * 0.7 = 5.04) which is a fairly significant difference.

Posted by: Nebular May 13 2011, 02:46 AM

Edit: According to http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=566.0, and confirmed by one of the forum mods who has seemingly been doing this for a very long time, you add all of the modifiers together and then apply the whole shebang to the item's ESS cost. So -10% Adapsin + -10% Biocompatability + -20% Alphaware = -40% ESS cost. I'm going to work with this until Topps tells me it's wrong or someone can provide conclusive evidence to the contrary. It does seem to match the spirit of the other rules where all modifiers are simply added together.

Posted by: Argent May 13 2011, 03:20 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 12 2011, 10:46 PM) *
Edit: According to http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=566.0, and confirmed by one of the forum mods who has seemingly been doing this for a very long time, you add all of the modifiers together and then apply the whole shebang to the item's ESS cost. So -10% Adapsin + -10% Biocompatability + -20% Alphaware = -40% ESS cost. I'm going to work with this until Topps tells me it's wrong or someone can provide conclusive evidence to the contrary. It does seem to match the spirit of the other rules where all modifiers are simply added together.


Who am I to question the master of the matrix, FastJack. I always think a little too conservatively, its the GM inside of me. Now I can really pack in the cyberware!

Posted by: Argent May 13 2011, 03:58 PM

Request:

1. For adept power Improved Sense, can you make it so that we can manually write what it is that we are choosing. ie. Low-Light or Thermographic and then it displays

Improved Sense (Low-Light)


Ok so to just put this essense reduction thing to bed, here are all the combos. Let me know if you agree.

Cyber:
Biocompatability or adapsin = 10% reduction
Biocompatability + adapsin = 20% reduction
Alpha grade + biocompatability or adapsin = 30% reduction, with beta =40%, with delta =60%
Alpha grade + biocompatibility + adapsin = 40% reduction, with beta =50%, with delta =70%

Bioware:
Biocompatability = 10% reduction, does not include geneware.
Type O System = 50% reduction for basic bioware only.
Biocompatability + Type O System = 60% reduction for basic bioware, 10% for all other bioware.

Geneware:
Genecrafted = 20% reduction in cost only, not essence during character creation. All geneware.
Genetic Heritage = any one genetic enhancement for free and 20% reduction in cost for transgenic genetic enhancements only.
Genecrafted + Genetic Heritage =
At character creation: any one genetic enhancement for free and 40% reduction in cost for transgenic enhancements, 20% for all other geneware.
After character creation: 20% reduction in cost to transgenic enhancements only.

Posted by: Nebular May 13 2011, 04:03 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 12 2011, 06:29 AM) *
3. When selecting underbarrel flamethrower, can you include an add weapon button so we can select a particular flame thrower.

4. Can you add a select gear button for the Device Mount mod.

5. Underbarrel Weapon mod is missing. When added can you make so that we can select a particular weapon for that mod.

The Underbarrel Weapon Mod is there - it's just named Underbarrel Bola Launcher, Underbarrel Flamethrower, and Underbarrel Grapple Gun since those are your limited choices.

I'm going to say no to the rest (for now at least), largely because they can be modified individually and it's necessary in order to keep track of their ammo counts in Career Mode. The Device thing is an ugly issue as well. For now it should be easy enough to keep track of what's an underbarrel weapon or device mounted item in something like the Notes section if needed.

That said, I DO have the mount thing all cleaned up after re-writing how it's handled. All Mods and Accessories can now be added/removed from Weapons and can be marked as Installed or not. Weapons update their RC to reflect all of the items currently Installed in it, so if you remove the Stock, its RC will drop.

I'll have another update ready to go this evening which will include this stuff.

Posted by: LonePaladin May 13 2011, 04:19 PM

Low priority item here. I'm getting an exception when I try to download the latest character sheet. The program and data files updated fine.

Here's the exception text, stuck in a nice little code-box so it doesn't take up excess space:

CODE
************** Exception Text **************
System.IO.DirectoryNotFoundException: Could not find a part of the path 'C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\sheets\Shadowrun 4.xsl'.
at System.IO.__Error.WinIOError(Int32 errorCode, String maybeFullPath)
at System.IO.FileStream.Init(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, Int32 rights, Boolean useRights, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options, SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES secAttrs, String msgPath, Boolean bFromProxy, Boolean useLongPath)
at System.IO.FileStream..ctor(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options)
at System.IO.StreamWriter.CreateFile(String path, Boolean append)
at System.IO.StreamWriter..ctor(String path, Boolean append, Encoding encoding, Int32 bufferSize)
at System.IO.StreamWriter..ctor(String path, Boolean append, Encoding encoding)
at System.IO.File.InternalWriteAllText(String path, String contents, Encoding encoding)
at System.IO.File.WriteAllText(String path, String contents)
at Chummer.frmUpdate.DownloadUpdates()
at Chummer.frmUpdate.cmdUpdate_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.225 (RTMGDR.030319-2200)
CodeBase: file:///c:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Chummer
Assembly Version: 0.0.0.75
Win32 Version: 0.0.0.75
CodeBase: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Chris/My%20Documents/Downloads/Chummer/Chummer.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------

Posted by: Nebular May 13 2011, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ May 13 2011, 09:58 AM) *
Request:

1. For adept power Improved Sense, can you make it so that we can manually write what it is that we are choosing. ie. Low-Light or Thermographic and then it displays

Improved Sense (Low-Light)


Ok so to just put this essense reduction thing to bed, here are all the combos. Let me know if you agree. (big long list removed)

The Power thing will be in the next update.

And yes, that list looks correct. My head nearly exploded from trying to get everything to match up, but I think I finally have it! Oh do I ever hope I have it and don't need to worry about it again. wobble.gif

Posted by: Nebular May 13 2011, 04:38 PM

QUOTE (LonePaladin @ May 13 2011, 10:19 AM) *
Low priority item here. I'm getting an exception when I try to download the latest character sheet. The program and data files updated fine.

So you have Chummer.exe located right in the "C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\" directory, correct? That's weird that it won't update the sheet since updating a sheet and updating a data file is the same block of code. If

Edit: I think I found the problem. When the you grab tonight's update, just grab the Chummer update on its own, restart Chummer, then try updating everything again. There may have been a possible issue of it trying to save downloaded files to the wrong location. Not entirely sure why, but I explicity tell it where to save things now.

Posted by: LonePaladin May 13 2011, 06:31 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 13 2011, 11:38 AM) *
So you have Chummer.exe located right in the "C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\" directory, correct?

Sort of. It's actually in: C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\My Documents\Downloads\Chummer\

Posted by: Nebular May 13 2011, 08:01 PM

k. Hopefully this update fixes it for you.

Posted by: Nebular May 13 2011, 09:28 PM

Here's this weekend's big update.

Build 78
- added support for <sensitivesystem /> to Improvement Manager since Sensitive System explicity doubles the final Essence cost rather than applying a +100% cost modifier
- Essence modifiers are now added together to determine a total percentage which is then deducted from an item's Essence cost
- linked Contacts and Enemies now open in their correct mode (either Build or Career)
- clicking Add & More when adding a Weapon Mod to a standard Weapon now correctly goes through the process again instead of trying add a Mod to a Vehicle Weapon
- PACKS Kits now support the new Exotic Skill setup
- updated Exotic PACKS Kits to include all Exotic Skills
- Essence Loss now correctly impacts MAG and RES
- added an option to support the More Lethal Gameplay optional rule (off by default)
- added support for Weapon Ranges
- added support for SoftWeave Armor Mod
- resizing the window no longer causes the Notes field on the Character Info tab to slide behind other fields
- opening the Metamagic window as a non-Technomancer no longer causes an error
- Armor Mods with no Rating no longer have the Rating field enabled
- Weapon Mods and Accessories that come with a Weapon can now be removed
- removed Weapon Accessory Mount tracking since Accessories can be swapped and removed during play and places too much restriction on Accessory selection
- Melee Weapons now show the damage they will do and their full Reach based on the character's Attributes in the Select a Weapon window
- added an Installed option for Weapon Mods and Accessories to show that they are currently in use on the Weapon and are contributing to the Weapon's stats
- re-wrote how Weapon RC is calculated (see below)
- fixed an issue that could cause data and character sheet files to be saved to the wrong location during an update
- added a Condition Monitor tab in Career Mode which records the character's Condition Monitors and applies penalties to Skills

Weapon Recoil Changes
Since Weapons can now have their Mods and Accessories added and removed, the Weapon's RC now shows what it is with the items currently attached to it. When selecting a Weapon, the Select a Weapon window may show the lower RC number as being slightly different than it appears in the source book, however the number IS CORRECT since it comes with all of the attachments already installed. This happens because in SR4A, some Stocks were removable and some were not. With the addition of the Stock Accessory in Arsenal, they all effectively became removable items.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin May 14 2011, 10:57 AM

Going through and working on an adept for a player in my campaign, it would be nice if Killing Hands, Mystic Armor, and Critical Strike actually modified some of the things on the character sheet.

Killing Hands should change unarmed combat from S to P/S or P or S since the player gets to choose whether he does physical or stun damage.

Critical Strike should add its rank to the damage value of unarmed combat attack.

Mystic Armor should show up as a plug in to armor so that it can increase the Ballistic/Impact rating of worn armor by the rating of Mystic Armor.

I don't know if there are other adept powers that could or should modify things on the character sheet that don't at this time. I know the Improved Reflexes 2 seems to work just fine though.

Thanks for all the work.

Posted by: Nebular May 14 2011, 04:28 PM

Some changes that came to mind during last night's game, and the requested Adept Power updates. smile.gif

Build 79


Posted by: LonePaladin May 14 2011, 05:25 PM

Well, it's no longer throwing me an exception when I try to update everything. Catch is, now it won't admit that the character and data sheets are up-to-date.

Traditions.xml is lacking the traditions from Street Magic.

I have a request as well: I'd like the option to create a partial character -- as in, lay out a few skills, maybe some gear -- and save that as a custom PACKS template, so that I can go in an edit out the extraneous parts but have the actual items formatted properly. Basically, have it save anything that has been altered from the baseline and save it in the proper XML format. Does that make sense?

Or I just need to get off my butt and quit grousing about Notepad.

Posted by: Nebular May 14 2011, 06:13 PM

Updated the Traditions to add the missing ones.

Posted by: Wizard_Thoarin May 14 2011, 06:38 PM

Looks like the cost for the Improved Reflexes is incorrect accord to the table on page 196 in my SR4A book.

Improved Reflexes 1 should be 1.5 magic points
Improved Reflexes 2 should be 2.5 magic points
Improved Reflexes 3 should be 4 magic points.

Currently they are listed as costing 2, 3, and 5 magic points respectively.

Posted by: whatevs May 14 2011, 06:41 PM

It looks as though orthoskin is contributing it's rating to encumberance. The description in the book (SR4A 347) doesn't say anything about it either way, just assumed that it wouldn't encumber because it's... your skin...

Posted by: whatevs May 14 2011, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ May 14 2011, 07:38 PM) *
Looks like the cost for the Improved Reflexes is incorrect accord to the table on page 196 in my SR4A book.

Improved Reflexes 1 should be 1.5 magic points
Improved Reflexes 2 should be 2.5 magic points
Improved Reflexes 3 should be 4 magic points.

Currently they are listed as costing 2, 3, and 5 magic points respectively.


Just had my copy open. What he said.

Posted by: Nebular May 14 2011, 07:01 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ May 14 2011, 01:44 PM) *
Just had my copy open. What he said.

The values in Chummer are correct based on the updated values from the Runner's Toolkit. They basically cost the same amount in MAG as the equivalent Wired Reflexes ESS. The Toolkit is the closest thing we've had to an errata. nyahnyah.gif

Posted by: Nebular May 14 2011, 07:03 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ May 14 2011, 01:41 PM) *
It looks as though orthoskin is contributing it's rating to encumberance. The description in the book (SR4A 347) doesn't say anything about it either way, just assumed that it wouldn't encumber because it's... your skin...

As far as I understand it, anything that contributes to your Armor Ratings also contributes towards your Encumbrance since it is more bulk being added to your frame.

Posted by: LonePaladin May 14 2011, 07:24 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 14 2011, 01:13 PM) *
Updated the Traditions to add the missing ones.

Looks like the code's not checking the source on traditions; if you turn off Street Magic from the list, it still shows the extra traditions.

And I'm starting to think my netbook's copy is borked somehow, what with the updating issue and its refusal to play well with the display. The only way I can get it to scroll down to reach the Knowledge skills is to maximize the program, then un-maximize the character window and resize it.

Posted by: Nebular May 14 2011, 07:50 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 14 2011, 02:01 PM) *
The values in Chummer are correct based on the updated values from the Runner's Toolkit. They basically cost the same amount in MAG as the equivalent Wired Reflexes ESS. The Toolkit is the closest thing we've had to an errata. nyahnyah.gif

Just to follow up on this, here's the Powers table from the Runner's Toolkit's Compiled Tables booklet. http://www.dndjunkie.com/images/AdeptPowersTable.jpg

Posted by: Nebular May 14 2011, 07:55 PM

QUOTE (LonePaladin @ May 14 2011, 02:24 PM) *
Looks like the code's not checking the source on traditions; if you turn off Street Magic from the list, it still shows the extra traditions.

And I'm starting to think my netbook's copy is borked somehow, what with the updating issue and its refusal to play well with the display. The only way I can get it to scroll down to reach the Knowledge skills is to maximize the program, then un-maximize the character window and resize it.

If you move it outside of the My Documents directory and put it somewhere like C:\Chummer, does that solve the problem?

I'm able to reproduce the resizing problem you're having. I'll work on a fix for this.

Posted by: fazzamar May 14 2011, 07:59 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 14 2011, 03:01 PM) *
The values in Chummer are correct based on the updated values from the Runner's Toolkit. They basically cost the same amount in MAG as the equivalent Wired Reflexes ESS. The Toolkit is the closest thing we've had to an errata. nyahnyah.gif


How do we know the Runner Toolkit is correct and the values weren't a mistake?

Also, as a note, if anyone wants to change the Improved Reflexes values back to pre-Runner's Toolkit costs all it takes is a simple edit in notepad of the Powers.xml file.

Posted by: Nebular May 14 2011, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (fazzamar @ May 14 2011, 01:59 PM) *
How do we know the Runner Toolkit is correct and the values weren't a mistake?

Also, as a note, if anyone wants to change the Improved Reflexes values back to pre-Runner's Toolkit costs all it takes is a simple edit in notepad of the Powers.xml file.

That's like arguing how do you know the numbers in an errata are now correct and not a mistake. smile.gif One must assume that the latest revision of the numbers from the publisher are in fact the most up-to-date, just like the values in SR4A superseding the ones in SR4. The numbers make sense to me as they bring the cost in line with similar Cyberware. The difference between 1.5 and 2 isn't a simple miss of a keystroke like most of the mistakes in their books, so someone had intentionally made that change. Augmentation didn't have matching number when you compared the Genetech tables with the descriptions to the Genetech summary tables at the back of the book, but the Toolkit seems to confirm that the tables with the descriptions are the correct values. Given that they've been working on that Toolkit and compiled tables for quite some time, and that the Genetech tables in the Toolkit aren't a 3rd different set of numbers, I'd be inclined to say they were a little more diligent in making sure the information they were providing and updating are what they should now be.

Or at least that's my take on it. biggrin.gif

Posted by: LonePaladin May 14 2011, 08:28 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ May 14 2011, 02:55 PM) *
If you move it outside of the My Documents directory and put it somewhere like C:\Chummer, does that solve the problem?

I'll try that this evening.

In the meantime, there's another little add-on I'd like to see added to the sourcebook list: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=58911. (Can't finish the original PACKS document without it.)

I've made some entries in a custom-packs.xml file for testing, and it doesn't seem to be appearing on the list of options. Perhaps the program isn't reading it?

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