The FAQ thread was getting way too sidetracked on this topic, so I decided to try and do something by making this discussion thread. Feel free to discuss the effects William Gibson may or may not have had on Shadowrun and the Cyberpunk genre.

I played Shadowrun before I ever picked up a William Gibson book. But when I did read Neuromancer (or part of it -- I still need to finish it ^^;; ), the parallels were more than uncanny. I think it's obvious that Neuromancer had a huge impact on Shadowrun, if for no other reason than because Neuromancer, while it did not pioneer the Cyberpunk revolution, as I'll call it, did bring it to the front of people's minds and arouse their interest in it. Gibson's works had a large effect on other Cyberpunk works, other Cyberpunk works had a large effect on Shadowrun, therefore Gibson's writings probably did play a role in Shadowrun, if not actively then indeed passively through other books.

That said, I think Gibson is being a huge, virus-infected prick if he thinks that Shadowrun owes him anything. If anything else, at least in my case, he owes Shadowrun for getting another person interested in his works and getting another copy of his book sold. On that note, he owes the Computer Science industry a lot, too. I mean, I first heard of him through my CS buddies (I'm a CS major of course), Shadowrun just piqued my interest enough to pick up his book. He can sit up on his high-horse and bash Shadowrun for the merging of Cyberpunk and High Fantasy, or bitch that he didn't get credit where credit was due, all he damn-well pleases but the point is that nobody owes anybody anything, really.

William Gibson thinks he's to shadowrun, what Tolken is to D&D.

Has he ever said SR owes him anything? It's been a while since I read his statements, but my impression was that he was just disgusted by the idea of SR and wanting to distance himself from it.

I can't totally blame him for that. If you try to describe Shadowrun in five words or less, most easy descriptions will sound pretty stupid.

~J

Well, the quote is ...

Emphasis mine. ;)

I read Neuromancer shortly before getting into SR1 (the short story Johnny Mnemonic was the inspiration for my courier-character, Tangent) & found it refreshing from the stuff I was reading at that time. I read the rest of his books (Burning Chrome, Mona Lisa Overdrive & Count Zero) & read the Mirrorshades anthology.

I would agree that Gibson, Sterling et al. of the Cyberpunk genre should be acknowledged for their influence & inspiration on the cyberpunk-themed RPG games. Anything more would be rather arrogant. If an author wanted to attach their name to a game (such as George RR Martin & his property, the Hedge Knight), they would do so, bringing in the lawyers to secure their rights. Creating a game from scratch is by no means easy, especially from a copyrighted source (I can point out past RPGs such as FASA's Star Trek & the Conan RPG).

If Gibson wants to distance himself from SR, that's his call.

A bit more detail in this interview quote:

I don't think he likes the concept of Shadowrun, but he seems more indifferent than anything, to me.

I'm thinking phrases like "extreme revulsion" and "gag me with a spoon", and even "over my dead body" indicate more than mere indifference.

I think it's pretty clear he doesn't actually know what SR is about. Or has never actually read Tolkien. I suppose I'd bet on the former.

Honestly, who cares? Sure, he had a huge influence on cyberpunk (being the creator and all), but creations change. That he doesn't like elves is really immaterial to the hobby or the game.

He's a good writer and I read a great interview that he gave once. Why we have a thread here discussing his feelings on Shadowrun, I have no idea though.

I suspect he's rather unaware of the concerns here. However, if he's ever in the Bristol area, he's quite welcome to play in my game and try it out.

You edited out the munchies reference. Were you afraid that droves of DSers would be knocking on your door on game night? :)

I quite like the man's writing style, and his ideas.

From what I've read about him by others, and from his non-fiction writings, he seems like a bit of a pompous ass. YMMV

So, I look forward to his next works, and avoid getting to know the man.

(I do recall a dig in his last novel though, IIRC. I hope he doesn't keep that up.)

Clearly, William Gibson influenced the creators of Cyberpunk 2013. It is also clear that Gibson influenced the creators of Shadowrun more than Al Gore did. The term cyberspace appears in the bbb, and the terms internet and information superhighway do not. Could that be because Shadowrun was created after Gibson coined the term cyberspace and before Gore coined the term information superhighway and before he drafted the legislation that opened the internet to the public?

It is also clear that Gibson sees Shadowrun as the bastard child of Cyberpunk 2013 and Dungeons and Dragons, and is repulsed by the concept. The fact that the bastard Shadowrun became more popular than Cyberpunk 2013 is probably what gagged him. The truth is: Shadowrun is to Cyberpunk 2013 like Vanilla Ice is to Issac Hayes (creator of rap). It's enough to gag anyone.

The fact that Street Magic was produced before Unwired probably illustrates the relative importance of DnD and Cyberpunk in the Shadowrun mix - at least in the eyes of the player haters. {Do you like that pun?} I like Shadowrun; I like DnD, too.

How do you spot the DnD lovers in a Shadowrun game? They are the ones that complain about the amount of time spent dealing with the Matrix. Imagine how William Gibson feels about that!

Does it honestly really matter what Gibson thinks?

It's like that adage about assholes and opinions and everyone's possession of one. So a guy that broke ground on cyberpunk doesn't like the game - the fifth world still turns, he's still a good writer, and Shadowrun's still a good game.

*applauds Marmot*

If what people think really mattered then internet forums would be outlawed.

Instead we have freedom of speech, and you get what you pay for.

Couldn't agree with you more. And neither can our old pal, Bill Gibson.

Wow! You're fast!

Alright, alright! If William Gibson shows up for a game, he can have munchies too. But he brings his own beer and illegals.

Where is that door?

+1 karma for hilarity and accuracy.

Hey now!

I hate dealing with the Matrix because it's one player doing stuff for an hour while everyone else sits around and waits for the results.

I also hate players that want to run their astral quest during the game....

Gibson is an ass, and a technophobe. He's hardly a prophet, but he is a damn fine writer, imho. I have all his books, and steal liberally from his style from time to time.

So yeah, he's a guy. I think it's the fact that he's generally considered the granpappy of cyberpunk, and he labelled us as bastard children, that gets people's goat.

Hell, we sit around a table rolling dice we swiped from Yahtzee talking about how wizzer we are, Chummer. Can we really afford to take ourselves that seriously?

*Stab* *Stab* *Stab*

~J

Upgrade to SR4 so everyone can hack. So what if that makes hacking take n^2 times as long (where n = number of simultaneous hackers).