That's what already happens, Karoline (in some cases, because partials generally don't average).

Armour on hands and feet is broken, that's the sad truth. If you allow it, everybody with a remote chance of encountering physical combat will figure out that 8 Arm for 1 Essence, with 0 encumberance and unlimited stacking, is the best bargain ever.

Armor rating in SR is just an abstract rating of how much punishment somebody can take. In general this works quite well, just with mini-mods like hands, feet or earlobes it gets ridicolous.

<sarcasm>You know what's better than having armor? Not getting hit in the first place! And if you cut off a body part, it can't be hit in combat! So, it stands to reason, if you cut off your hands and feet and never replace them, you get extra dodge dice, right?</sarcasm>

Yeah, but it makes it rather hard to shoot someone in the face (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Nonsense. Just implant a cybergun in your fore-arm, or get an articulated arm gun mount for your cyber-torso.

Whats that- you can't walk? Really? Huh, I though hands and feet didn't affect attributes; your quickness should be unnaffected!

No Quickness in SR4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Micro target –6
Mini target –4
Small target (dog-sized) –2

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I blame catalyst for not giving us much new crunch to debate, resulting in extended reruns of old debates.

Maybe You get Armor 8/8 and no cyberarmor does NOT count against enc. ....
but your Attributes are either BOD3 /AGI 3 /STR3 and you have to average with your natural
Arms and Legs (Which means it drops these Attributes) or you have to get customized Hand and Feet (much more expensive and check for Availiabilty)

JahtaHey
Medicineman

It also gives 4 extra boxes on the condition monitor, making them (by RAW) even harder to kill.

That much at least I've houseruled out.

I'm fairly certain that only full Arms/Legs(& Torso and Skull) give a full extra Box. 1/2 Arms give only 1/2 Box (Round Up) and Hands/Feet don't add anything by RAW
(According to the German Rules IIRC)

with a fairly certain Dance
Medicineman

SR4A only states "one box pr limb" with no detail.

Wait, really? No negative impact? I mean, I suppose if your Strength, Agility, and Body are all 3, then yeah. If not, then I suspect that the conversation around our table would go something like this:

Player: "I shoot the guy right in the face."
GM: "You're using your hand for that, aren't you?"
Player: *sadness*

Your GM could even go as far as to limit nearly anything you do when you're standing (if you want to simulate having feet that are less agile than the rest of your body, try putting on shoes that are one or two sizes too large and go play football). End result: maybe those extra armor dice are worth it, and maybe they aren't, depending on what you're going for.

Obviously you haven't read the book. There is nothing stating in RAW that the 3's average into your arm's attributes, which then get averaged into the whole body's attributes. 2nd, if you've ever fired a gun....its not just the hand. Definitely not the agility of your hand That might affect your ability to pull the trigger...but thats about it. The only presidence is that somethign that uses the specific location, so fine manual dextious situations, forgery via hand writing maybe or lockpicking might be affected. Definitely not any weapon skills. Finally, as with anything, it should be discussed with the GM prior to actually being brought into the game, but based on RAW, it is a valid idea.

I thought the FAQ was pretty clear:



If you have a partial limb the GM retains the right to screw you over.

Too bad FAQ =/= RAW

Yeah, first off, I'm not saying I'd do this. I think its cheap, and an abuse of the rules. I'm not trying to justify it for my own ends. I was just merely pointing out how annoying it is.

And then you don't get money, then you starve and die anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Yes, the cyberarmor/partial cyberlimb rules need to be rewritten. We know.

This has been brought up umpteen million times on the boards already. And every single time triggers a multipage raging argument that ends up going nowhere.



-k

Cyberhands with cheap armor have stock Agility of 3. If your natural Agility is higher than that, you're gonna be looking at a penalty for any Agility roll which involves your hands - which is any attack roll, some defense rolls, and any manual-dexterity skill. Depending on the circumstance it might be the straight hand's stat or an average, but if you're a character who SHOOTS GUNS this might be something you take into account.

I have to say that there is quite a lot of "its over powered and doesn't make sense" on this post.

I think that the cybered characters need quite a lot of decent stuff to make them comparable to magicians and physical adepts, and am happy to see that there are powerful alternatives. So far I have only ever really played wizards or adepts because they are so much better: with a few sustained spells, spirits, foci, they can mostly do anything any cybered character can do. I'm glad to see that the cyberlimbs option is a credible alternative.

As far as making sense goes, its worth noting that armour is an abstraction, and the entire damage system is an abstraction. In melee combat especially armoured hands and feet are very useful. Note also that a called shot is almost certainly going to bypass this armour "I shoot at the chest" or "I shoot at the head" sounds like a good option.

Yeah, I think it would be pretty hard to rewrite the rules. Right now, they are actually not bad. Besides the massive armor stacking, everything else makes fair sense. Really, they just need to provide descriptive details on how to determine "partial limb use" and that sort of stuff. So does a cyberhand affect the agility used for firearms? Does it take a partial or full arm? Idk, I don't have enough to tell you. They just need to elaborate.

You've never shot a gun before have you....already addressed this above. It's more than your hand to aim the gun and track a target. Its your hand (finger) to pull the trigger, but thats hardly the most important part.

When I take partials, which is fairly often as a I have a thing for characters with a single cyberforearm, I stat match to meat purely for the sake of avoiding arguments.

Except that nothing stops mages and adepts taking this same setup, its does after all only cost 1 point of essence(or even less if you manage to booze up your GM enought that he approves it as a suite (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )