Hey Dumpshock, lately I've been trying to brainstorm new and interesting ways for 'runners to incapacitate targets. I'm looking for any more options than just stick'n'shock/gel ammo rounds, stunbolts or gas grenades. Those are all tried and true, yes, but how about some more interesting ones? I've got a sort of list going on (and I'll include the ones I mentioned just now) but I want to see if anyone else has other fun ideas. That said I'm putting MAGIC out as a blanket method, what with spirits and stun abilities etc.

Close Range:
Stun Baton (usually 6S(e))
Stun Staff (6S(e))
Shock Hands (5S(e))
Good Ol' Fisticuffs (Str/2S)
Electroshock Orthoskin (6S(e)) (Hey is it just me or does this basically mean shock hands, with higher damage, and no need to plug 'em in again ever?)
Tranq Patches (1-20S)
Chemical Gland (Exhalation)(by chemical)
Resonance Trodes + Blackout (By program. TECHNOMANCER only)
MAGIC

At Range:
Stick'n'Shock (6S(e))
Weapons weaker than body armor
Gel Rounds (As Weapon -1)
Capsule Rounds (As weapon -0)
Capsule Rounds (As Weapon -0, + Chemical effects) (Now with toxins in them! Pepper punch capsule rounds anyone?)
Tasers (usually 6S(e))
Super Squirt (As Chemical)
Injection Vector Weapons (As Weapon, + Chemical)
MAGIC

Area of Effect:
Chemical Grenades (As Chemical)
Flash Bang (6S)
MAGIC

So there's my list as it stands. Clearly you'd use some in certain situations rather than others: it's a lot neater to sneak in on someone and slap a tranq patch on them if you're trying to extract them without a struggle, than to send your troll in and sock 'em one. Just saying. YMMV.

Anyone else with contributions?

The ultimate in Non-Lethal Approaches.

Don't be seen so you never have to get into combat in the first place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

In truth, anything can be lethal. That's why items designed for self defense are typically called "Low-Lethality" weapons. The RCMP proved just how lethal tasers are. There are a small percentage of the population allergic to Narcojet, the usual choice in knockout drugs. Even pepper spray can be lethal to someone with asthma (And aren't suggested for people who have it, BTW.).

If part of the job is to take someone against their will, well... Better make sure he isn't allergic to that tranq you just used on him.

Don't forget killing hands. Its quite capable of dealing stun, and in tougher fights, stacking the wound penalties on both tracks can tip the tide.

A quick list of good chemicals to use with your various chemtech items would be good. Better if you can compare cost/availability.

Narcojet, slab for starters.

Killing Hands + Critical Strike indeed. Massive damage, but you can still elect to do Stun.

Add elemental strike(sound) for totall armor penetration and your doing some impressive stun damage.

Well waddayaknow, that actually legally stacks. Nasty.

Yup. Got a Phys. Ad. in my game and this is damn near broken. The fact that Distant Strike doesn't stack and Melee attacks are a Complex action has kept it in check. That, and it's sort of his thing to not need weapons of any sort. And with this combo, and if he can manage to get a hit in, he really doesn't.

Nearly as impressive as just using shock or drugs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Subdual does stun. lots of it. i've seen a troll adept with attribute boost (Str) and finising move do a successful subdual attack and 12S instant. because Str doesn't get halved

Hertza Haeon?




-k

For me it's definitely the nerve strike power. You won't often need to do more than 4 or 5 'damage' to incapacitate someone for minutes. Even if you don't get them first time you'll still slash either their attack rolls or their initiative and defence rolls making a second-hit 'kill' even more likely.

That said, garottes are kinda classy.

There's also slab (Arsenal, page 76).

Wow, does this stack with the various martial arts techniques that improve your unarmed DV?

As in, could somebody take the following for a total of +8 DV:

2 Ranks of Boxing (+2 DV)
1 Rank of Karate (+1 DV)
1 Rank of Kung Fu (+1 DV)
2 Ranks of Muay Thai (+2 DV)
1 Rank of Tae Kwon Do (+1 DV)
1 Rank of Wildcat (+1 DV)

Pretty sure you can't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Got a quote? It seems to me like they'd all stack (and cost you 80 karma), theres even this which seems to hint that it would stack even if its not directly talking about DV, though you'd be limited to +7 DV:

Speaking of which...when did that get changed? Recently saw this change (from the previous 0 modifier) in the 4A book, but is not mentioned in the changes doc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I think Ramaloke is right here. The quote from Arsenal, page 156 is pretty solid.

Wow.

*shrug*. I could've sworn there was a specific rule that said DV stacks to +3 max, or something. Obviously, no GM would ever allow the abuse you've presented, but I thought there was an actual cap in the rules.

About elemental strike, it isn't that it adds DV to the base damage, but it can add secondary effects. Is this right? So in the case of (sound) above, its only effect is that it ignores armor. Am I correct here?

Yes and no.

Yes, martial arts unarmed DV stacks.... to a point

STILL...... its pretty good



No, because errata makes it cap out at +3. Yerameyahu is absolutely right. The rest of you suckers forgot to check the errata.

Source: Page 4, p.156 martial arts

So, at CharGen you'd be limited to

Base DV = Strength / 2
+
Critical Strike +6DV
+
Martial Arts +3DV
+
Net Hits on Agility + Unarmed Combat (Martial Art) vs. Reaction+(Skill)

resisted only with Body

There's really a good chance you'll do some P damage even if you don't intend to, just through overflow from the first hit.

Does all of that stack WITH Subdual Combat?
Also, don't forget about Boneworks and Hardliner-Gloves to get more Damage.

only the Wrestling MA specifically states to contribute DV to subdual. From the wording I'd say nothing else does

Well, the only important thing about the subdual would be that the damage is not STR/2 but strength alone.
If you could THEN add the other stuff it would become cruel and unusual punishment ^^

+ the rating of sound dampeners, if the target has those.