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> Mindbreaking sprint checks, another time when you just can't think too hard about SR4
CanRay
post Mar 15 2011, 05:56 AM
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QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 15 2011, 12:51 AM) *
No one from CGL is going to come to your house and assault you if you lower 'em for your game. Honest.

Yeah, heard that one before.

I'm pretty sure they have Lesbian Elf Stripper Ninjas on staff just for such a purpose!
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Epicedion
post Mar 15 2011, 06:39 AM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Mar 15 2011, 12:47 AM) *
Well 25 meters / rd and 3 expected successes (Pool 8-10 Dice ) thats about 32 Meters/Second
Very Good but not yet World Record
even 4 Successes(Pool 12 ) is still in teh "Ok Range"

And yes ; walking range is too fast

with a very good Dance
Medicienamn


Your example comes out to just over 23mph, which is only about 3mph shy of the world record.

QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 15 2011, 12:51 AM) *
No one from CGL is going to come to your house and assault you if you lower 'em for your game. Honest.


They break into my house at night and move the furniture around :/
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CanRay
post Mar 15 2011, 06:41 AM
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So our characters run around like the Space Marines used to do before they ate all the pies, eh?
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Critias
post Mar 15 2011, 06:53 AM
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QUOTE (Epicedion @ Mar 15 2011, 02:39 AM) *
They break into my house at night and move the furniture around :/

Yeah, but that's just to keep ya sharp. It's got nothing to do with house rules.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 15 2011, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Mar 14 2011, 10:47 PM) *
Well 25 meters / rd and 3 expected successes (Pool 8-10 Dice ) thats about 32 Meters/Second
Very Good but not yet World Record
even 4 Successes(Pool 12 ) is still in teh "Ok Range"

And yes ; walking range is too fast

with a very good Dance
Medicienamn


So you know someone who runs the 100 meter Dash in about 3.13 Seconds? 32 Meters/Second Breaks the world record by almost 3 times...
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Muspellsheimr
post Mar 15 2011, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Mar 14 2011, 11:27 PM) *
You can only Sprint once per Round.

Incorrect. While there is some ambiguity on exactly how sprinting works, there is no restriction on how many times you may make a sprinting check outside of how many actions you have, and each hit increases your movement rate.

QUOTE (Medicineman @ Mar 14 2011, 11:47 PM) *
Well 25 meters / rd and 3 expected successes (Pool 8-10 Dice ) thats about 32 Meters/Second
Very Good but not yet World Record
even 4 Successes(Pool 12 ) is still in teh "Ok Range"

Did you even look at my post? I did all the calculations for you. A high-school track student (dice pool 6) can, Rules as Written, break the world record. Consistently.

An incompetent, infirm, minimum strength human can break world record running speeds.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 15 2011, 04:51 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 15 2011, 07:41 AM) *
Did you even look at my post? I did all the calculations for you. A high-school track student (dice pool 6) can, Rules as Written, break the world record. Consistently.

An incompetent, infirm, minimum strength human can break world record running speeds.

I am not so sure about the Incompetent, Infirm Individual (they are not even allowed a roll after all), but your point is well taken. I am not sure why the 32 Meters/Second Speed is not registering on people though. That is a 3.13 Second 100 meter Dash, which is an insane speed, and is about 3x the speed of the Current World Record Holder.
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Critias
post Mar 15 2011, 07:18 PM
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It's registering, we've just already acknowledged that movement speeds are too high to be realistic, but we don't care. If you want to lower 'em, lower 'em. Me, I'll stick with playability and err on the side of my players being more awesome, not less.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 15 2011, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 15 2011, 12:18 PM) *
It's registering, we've just already acknowledged that movement speeds are too high to be realistic, but we don't care. If you want to lower 'em, lower 'em. Me, I'll stick with playability and err on the side of my players being more awesome, not less.


See, I agree with you Critias... I, personally, have absolutely no issues with movement Speeds, regardless of how high they are. I know that 32 meters/Second is ludicrously fast... So what... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

My point was to show our resident Medicine Man that his calculations were way off for determination of World Record Speeds.

Peace...
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Edana
post Mar 15 2011, 08:01 PM
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Technically Medicineman did make a mistake, but his conclusion isn't really wrong. If you look, he changed 25m/rnd into 32m/s, but a round is really 3 seconds. So with 3 successes you're looking at speeds of 31m/rnd which is about 10.5m/s. That puts a 100m dash at a more reasonable 9.5s. Still record-breaking, but not mind-bogglingly so.
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Epicedion
post Mar 15 2011, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 15 2011, 03:18 PM) *
It's registering, we've just already acknowledged that movement speeds are too high to be realistic, but we don't care. If you want to lower 'em, lower 'em. Me, I'll stick with playability and err on the side of my players being more awesome, not less.


I'm just going to point out again that in the previous edition, walking rate = Quickness and running rate = Quickness x3 (x2 for Dwarfs).

This meant an average human had a movement rate of 3/9. It also meant that, exactly the opposite of SR4, Trolls were not some sort of vehicle-outrunning sprint gods, due to their Quickness penalty. It also means that movement rates roughly tripled between editions.

I know, new edition, new rules, but not only is this change silly, it's huge. And not one of those regular huge changes like everything now being wireless. It's one of those changes that alters basic expectations about the world. And physics. And human capabilities.

Even in an incredibly unrealistic game like D&D, the walking rate is 3.4mph, and the flat-out-sprinting-with-a-feat rate is 17mph.

It's just weird. They made a mistake.
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Epicedion
post Mar 15 2011, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE (Edana @ Mar 15 2011, 04:01 PM) *
Technically Medicineman did make a mistake, but his conclusion isn't really wrong. If you look, he changed 25m/rnd into 32m/s, but a round is really 3 seconds. So with 3 successes you're looking at speeds of 31m/rnd which is about 10.5m/s. That puts a 100m dash at a more reasonable 9.5s. Still record-breaking, but not mind-bogglingly so.


31.32 meters per round is equivalent to the world record 100m dash time.
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Medicineman
post Mar 15 2011, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 15 2011, 09:41 AM) *
Incorrect. While there is some ambiguity on exactly how sprinting works, there is no restriction on how many times you may make a sprinting check outside of how many actions you have, and each hit increases your movement rate.


Did you even look at my post? I did all the calculations for you. A high-school track student (dice pool 6) can, Rules as Written, break the world record. Consistently.

An incompetent, infirm, minimum strength human can break world record running speeds.


@Tymeaus
Yup Sorry 31 Meters per Round (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)
25 meter / Rd+ 6Meters/ Rd = 31 Meter/ Rd
@Muspellheimer
Hmmm ....at first your run and with a running Check you change from running to sprinting...but as soon as you sprint you can't transform a sprint into a sprint because you are allready sprinting.Thats why you can make the Check only once per Round
(and everything else (more than one check) leads only to ridiculous results)

with a running Dance
Medicineman
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Edana
post Mar 15 2011, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (Epicedion @ Mar 15 2011, 03:06 PM) *
31.32 meters per round is equivalent to the world record 100m dash time.


Yeah, I was just pointing out that Medicineman should have said 32m per round, not 32m per second. The first is far more believable than the second.

Given the way running records have progressed it's not unreasonable to expect that the 100m world record will be faster 60 years in the future as well. (In the 1960's the fastest people were around the 10s mark, now the fastest are around 9.7s.)
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Epicedion
post Mar 15 2011, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (Edana @ Mar 15 2011, 04:24 PM) *
Yeah, I was just pointing out that Medicineman should have said 32m per round, not 32m per second. The first is far more believable than the second.

Given the way running records have progressed it's not unreasonable to expect that the 100m world record will be faster 60 years in the future as well. (In the 1960's the fastest people were around the 10s mark, now the fastest are around 9.7s.)


Sure, but each 0.1s is going to be a big accomplishment. We've pushed it forward 0.3s in the last 50 years.

But that's not the point. The average person still isn't going to come any closer to the old 1960's record, no matter what decade you're looking at. All we've done is push the outside edge of the envelope. Most people are still going to be in the middle.
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CanRay
post Mar 15 2011, 09:00 PM
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Doesn't help that the average person has a bit more around the middle than they did in 1960, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Muspellsheimr
post Mar 16 2011, 06:32 AM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Mar 15 2011, 02:18 PM) *
@Muspellheimer
Hmmm ....at first your run and with a running Check you change from running to sprinting...but as soon as you sprint you can't transform a sprint into a sprint because you are allready sprinting.Thats why you can make the Check only once per Round
(and everything else (more than one check) leads only to ridiculous results)

You have been around long enough you should know this - it is extremely rare I am wrong about mechanics, so it is advised you find a quote supporting you before attempting to "correct" me. In other words, read the damn rules..

QUOTE (SR4 p.138)
There are two types of movement: walking and running.

QUOTE (SR4 p.138)
Characters may attempt to increase their running distance by spending a Simple Action (rather than just a Free Action to run) and making a Running + Strength Test. Each hit adds 2 meters to their Running Rate.


Note: I do not currently have access to SR4A, but have looked it up in the past & do not remember any changes.
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Epicedion
post Mar 16 2011, 06:56 AM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 16 2011, 01:32 AM) *
You have been around long enough you should know this - it is extremely rare I am wrong about mechanics, so it is advised you find a quote supporting you before attempting to "correct" me. In other words, read the damn rules..

Note: I do not currently have access to SR4A, but have looked it up in the past & do not remember any changes.


You're right that it doesn't offer any sort of limiting factor to spending simple actions to sprint.

This of course leads to the further absurdity that someone with, say, Wired Reflexes 3 can make 8 sprint tests. If you can pull off, for example, 4 hits per test (dice pool ~16) you can add 64m to your running rate. That would be 89m/turn, or just over 66mph. Not quite enough to travel back in time, for that you'd need about 14 more hits, but it's still pretty ridiculous.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 16 2011, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (Epicedion @ Mar 16 2011, 12:56 AM) *
You're right that it doesn't offer any sort of limiting factor to spending simple actions to sprint.

This of course leads to the further absurdity that someone with, say, Wired Reflexes 3 can make 8 sprint tests. If you can pull off, for example, 4 hits per test (dice pool ~16) you can add 64m to your running rate. That would be 89m/turn, or just over 66mph. Not quite enough to travel back in time, for that you'd need about 14 more hits, but it's still pretty ridiculous.


No more ridiculous than Wired Reflexes (or Move By Wire) Rating 3 already is... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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vladski
post Mar 16 2011, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 15 2011, 12:51 AM) *
No one from CGL is going to come to your house and assault you if you lower 'em for your game. Honest.



Well, if they weren't from CGL, then who the frag WERE they?

Vlad
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Medicineman
post Mar 16 2011, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 16 2011, 01:32 AM) *
You have been around long enough you should know this - it is extremely rare I am wrong about mechanics, so it is advised you find a quote supporting you before attempting to "correct" me. In other words, read the damn rules..

I've been around ,You've been around. I can make mistakes, but so can You too
But I never intended to write that You're wrong about the Mechanics more that your point of viewing the Rules is from a ....wrong angle
When I read the German SR4A on Page 177
there is a paragraph called Sprinting
And it says that a Charackter can try to increase his running speed with a simple action ,etc etc
I didn't find any sentence about additional Tests meaning additional Meters per Turn (this means for Me:1 Check, 1 raise of the running speed per Round and thats all)
I hope You agree with me that 6 Checks per Round with 4 Successes each and a speed of 73 Meters per Round for a Human ist ridicoulos
(just like Epicedion wrote )

HokaHey
Medicineman
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 16 2011, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Mar 16 2011, 01:15 PM) *
I've been around ,You've been around. I can make mistakes, but so can You too
But I never intended to write that You're wrong about the Mechanics more that your point of viewing the Rules is from a ....wrong angle
When I read the German SR4A on Page 177
there is a paragraph called Sprinting
And it says that a Charackter can try to increase his running speed with a simple action ,etc etc
I didn't find any sentence about additional Tests meaning additional Meters per Turn (this means for Me:1 Check, 1 raise of the running speed per Round and thats all)
I hope You agree with me that 6 Checks per Round with 4 Successes each and a speed of 73 Meters per Round for a Human ist ridicoulos
(just like Epicedion wrote )

HokaHey
Medicineman


HokaHey Indeed...
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sabs
post Mar 16 2011, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (vladski @ Mar 16 2011, 06:43 PM) *
Well, if they weren't from CGL, then who the frag WERE they?

Vlad


FASA
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Mar 16 2011, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (sabs @ Mar 16 2011, 05:13 PM) *
FASA


The plot thickens... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)
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Muspellsheimr
post Mar 16 2011, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Mar 16 2011, 01:15 PM) *
But I never intended to write that You're wrong about the Mechanics more that your point of viewing the Rules is from a ....wrong angle
<>
I didn't find any sentence about additional Tests meaning additional Meters per Turn (this means for Me:1 Check, 1 raise of the running speed per Round and thats all)

Sprinting requires a simple action. If you have a simple action available, you can sprint. Unless you can provide a rules quote specifically providing additional restrictions (such as SS weapons), that is bullshit.

Oh, & I know exactly what this means from a realism viewpoint; look at my first fucking post in this thread.
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