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> Israel: The big flinch, Data on it is sparse, and that's kind of sad
LurkerOutThere
post Apr 17 2011, 10:04 PM
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So lately I've been looking on creating a Middle Eastern character, a medic mage who left his home country seeking more religious and personal freedom. I had decided he was going to be metahuman, but the trick became was he going to be Muslim or Jew. The problem is there is almost nothing in the books on Israel. We know it exists, we know thanks to Arsenal that they produce the sixth worlds most SUPER DUPER martial art Krav Maga. They are on the map in the almanac and their major notable historical actions are nukign libya out of existance prior to lone eagle. It would seem like they should have fairly bad relations with the Arabian Calyphate but their the untouchable area. What gives?
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CanRay
post Apr 17 2011, 10:15 PM
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Fear of Jewish Lawyers trained in Krav Maga?

*Rimshot* Thank you, I'm here all week, try the veal. (Oh I'm so going to the Special Hell.).
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Fix-it
post Apr 17 2011, 10:38 PM
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it's an extremely politically sensitive area, which is in constant chaos. way too easy to make predictions that will look silly.

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Minchandre
post Apr 17 2011, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Apr 17 2011, 03:04 PM) *
So lately I've been looking on creating a Middle Eastern character, a medic mage who left his home country seeking more religious and personal freedom. I had decided he was going to be metahuman, but the trick became was he going to be Muslim or Jew. The problem is there is almost nothing in the books on Israel. We know it exists, we know thanks to Arsenal that they produce the sixth worlds most SUPER DUPER martial art Krav Maga. They are on the map in the almanac and their major notable historical actions are nukign libya out of existance prior to lone eagle. It would seem like they should have fairly bad relations with the Arabian Calyphate but their the untouchable area. What gives?


It's covered somewhat in Shadows of Asia. Basically, it's still doing it's thing. It was hit somewhat hard by the Libyan chemical strike, but seems to be doing mostly okay now. Israel was basically forgotten by the writers when writing the Eurowars/Jihad business, but it made it through via a combination of nukes (which apparently still work for them) and powerful Kabbalistic mages. It has the Sinai and the Golan Heights; Palestine is an effective protectorate (consisting of the West Bank and a Gaza Strip that goes across the entire north short of the Sinai). It fought a war in 2064 with the Caliphate, and apparently annexed Lebanon as shown by the map in 6WA. It one of the most random acts ever, Jerusalem was apparently abandoned due to mana storms, and occupied by the UN (in the 2030s, I think). SoA indicates that security is tight and that shadowrunning is very difficult.

Some interesting gems culled from the books:
-CorpGuide indicates that Ares operates Israel Military Industries as a subsidiary. I suspect this is intended to show Ares ownership over the entire Israeli military-industrial complex (IRL, IMI mostly manufactures small arms)
-The book about organized crime whose name I don't recall says Yamas (an elite and fairly secret anti-terrorism unit) was apparently betrayed by the Israeli government, causing them to go rogue
-Corporate Enclaves or whatever A Jewish-run business in Dubai is suspected to be a Mossad front and has interests in technomancers
-Arsenal's write-up for the Seco 120 (?) says that at one point (it's not clear if it's still today, or in the past), every Israeli was expected to carry a handgun at all times.
-There's an Israeli corp called Delek Dragon (delek is Hebrew for gasoline) that operates in Nigeria, sponsoring pirates who steal oil.

That's about it. I was very disappointed that it didn't receive a 6WA writeup, especially since the annexation of Lebanon is presented without any explanation.

My thoughts about it, for a campaign that I've been planning for a while in the Middle East:
-Because of the IMI thing, I see Israel as being something of a corporate whore for Ares. I see Knight Errant and the IDF cooperating closely, Ares having big charities and sponsoring politicians. Ares and the government aren't the same entity, but their hands are incredibly far down each others' pockets
-Lebanon is probably a protectorate a la Palestine: do your own thing, just don't think about raising an army. We'll protect you for your own good. Lebanon itself I see as pretty much business as usual, torn into a dozen fragments by interfactional disputes. The IDF probably keeps the level of violence pretty low, but not zero.
-Based on Israel being high tech and highly militarized, plus following the modern trend, I see the Israeli military as being highly drone-oriente
-Israel may still be an orbital power, or they may have sold their space program to Ares
-I have a personal theory that Aden likes Israel somewhat. We know that he has ties to the Lebanese Christians, and his allowing Israel to conquer the region says something. He's also probably happy with anything that strikes against the S-K influenced Caliphate.
-Racially, I see Israel as being the precise opposite of the rest of the world, where the trend is "I don't care what color you are as long as you're human". Instead, I see society being completely accepting of metatype while continuing to discriminate based on religious/ethnic status.
-Because I kinda like the idea of all Israelis carrying guns, I'm borrowing an idea from Ken MacLeod and having shooting and martial arts taught in elementary and middle school. If I can have even one PC or NPC comment that they were they won a school shooting competition in 5th grade, my life will be complete.
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CanRay
post Apr 17 2011, 11:06 PM
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IMI apparently makes a lot more than small arms and ammo.

But they're most infamous for the Desert Eagle and Uzi family. As well as the Galil (A modified AK-Variant in NATO calibers.).

And, yes, the Seco LD-120 was designed for civilian distribution en mass (Arsenal Page 22, and earlier as well, IIRC.). This is probably an extension of Israel's mandatory military service.
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Ogrebear
post Apr 17 2011, 11:09 PM
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A bunch of Mossad trained and equipped Trolls would really be scary...
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Critias
post Apr 17 2011, 11:59 PM
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A bunch of Mossad trained anythings would be really scary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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CanRay
post Apr 18 2011, 12:10 AM
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...

Mossad Pixie Adepts? Throwing Stars of David? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Minchandre
post Apr 18 2011, 12:20 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 17 2011, 06:10 PM) *
...

Mossad Pixie Adepts? Throwing Stars of David? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


I actually made a Kabbalistic Pixie Adept once. He was scary. Krav Maga + adept powers + GM ruling that a light pistol can be modified for two hand use and full bursts...
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Fortinbras
post Apr 18 2011, 12:39 AM
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With adorable, pixie sized guns?
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CanRay
post Apr 18 2011, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Apr 17 2011, 07:39 PM) *
With adorable, pixie sized guns?

Seco LD-120s, to be exact. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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LurkerOutThere
post Apr 18 2011, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (Fix-it @ Apr 17 2011, 04:38 PM) *
it's an extremely politically sensitive area, which is in constant chaos. way too easy to make predictions that will look silly.


I guess my mind rebels at this answer considering the complete lack of political sensitivity shown everywhere selse in the setting. The setting itself is basically founded on genocide. Even accepting that as the game was coming out in the 80's a lot of people didn't want to think on the middle east too hard it's hard to believe that it's easier to countenance genocide committed by or against the Native American's then it is to consider something major happening in Israel. Personally I think there could be an interesting dynamic to talk about Israel without the blank check from the US and to a lesser extent the UK, how would that affect the way they deal with their neighbors. Evidently they totally figured out how to place nice with the Palestinians which is kind of heart warming even if it twigs my latent cynicism.

So yea, it really needed a 6th world writeup and it didn't get one and I for one would really like to know why. We can have Auschwitz ghosts and Tehran getting razed tot he ground but we can't have a mention of the power players who are presumably diametricly opposed to the Caliphate and Egypt?

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Mäx
post Apr 18 2011, 05:25 PM
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Shadows of Asia has a 5 page write-up on Israel.
The most important think to remember when running in Israel is "Don't get caught by the Mossad".
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CanRay
post Apr 18 2011, 05:35 PM
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Um, that's a rule anywhere Mossad has an operation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Another thing to take into consideration is that there's no such thing as a "Helpless Hostage" in Israel. Mandatory Military Service and Pistols handed out after you've done your time.

Although, I am amazed it's not like the SMGs they deal out in Sweden. (At least, that's what I was informed was issued, but that was from a guy that hadn't been home in a long, long time...).
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Nath
post Apr 18 2011, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 18 2011, 07:35 PM) *
Another thing to take into consideration is that there's no such thing as a "Helpless Hostage" in Israel. Mandatory Military Service and Pistols handed out after you've done your time.
Ultra-Orthodox can often escape military service. So, if you really need an hostage, aim for black hat and sidelocks. Arab Israelis can also avoid doing their time, but it may be harder to spot them in a crowd (and even then the question would be, would the police/security service/military consider it as an hostage ?).
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ggodo
post Apr 18 2011, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 18 2011, 09:35 AM) *
Although, I am amazed it's not like the SMGs they deal out in Sweden. (At least, that's what I was informed was issued, but that was from a guy that hadn't been home in a long, long time...).

Sweden, so neutral we'll blow your head off.
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Adarael
post Apr 18 2011, 07:10 PM
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The game I just started is beginning in Israel, actually, and will be involving a lot of the surrounding areas. I decided to deviate from what was blurbed about them in a lot of places, because the representations of most of the countries are contradictory; one book will indicate a country is a nuked wasteland, and others will indicate it's functioning identically to the 20th century. And not to put too fine a point on it, the Middle East is a shitton less stable then OTHER countries that fell apart, so I can't see it remaining intact as it is now. I'm gonna try avoiding getting into the nitty gritty too much in the initial post. If you want to know more about any individual country, let me know. No, seriously. I have way more information than I'm writing down here:

Let me give you the rundown:

Israel: The only real bastion of stability in the middle east other than Egypt. After the holocaust and at least 50 years of being under siege by nations that would like to blow them up simply for being Jewish, there's no way Israel would respond with anything less than decisive force if threatened with a real war. The fact that they nuked Libya shows that. Fundamentally, Israel will refuse to be controlled or dictated to by any force that isn't Israeli, period. Consequently, in my world, Israel has managed to resist the majority of the megacorporate power-fuckery by pitting individual megacorps against each other and by setting limits on localized megacorporate power. Conventional Shadowrun wisdom says this isn't possible, but they managed it in the following manner:
First: land-lease rates (or outright purchase prices) and tariffs on goods are much lower for any megacorp willing to sign contractual agreements to assist in the defense of Israel, providing they do so under direction of the Knesset. Such "defense" usually comes in the form of low-cost government contracts, be they military, infrastructure, whatever. It's a bit like how Ares props up the California Free State, but more official. These agreements are known as the Zahavi Accords, after Prime Minister Esti Zahavi.
Second: individual corporate citizens pay extremely high taxes on goods purchased outside of corporate zones, unless they are ALSO Israeli citizens. Dual-citizenship is encouraged. Consequently it's advantageous for corporate citizens to seek dual-citizenship.
Third: Israel plays dirty, dirty games to keep itself safe. Not only does Mossad play spy games all up in the megacorporations' business within Israel, it's not beyond tipping off local bedoins, pirates, and unsavory types to lucrative corporate convoys if the corporations haven't been playing nice with the nation. This has managed to persist because Israel has been very careful about balancing corporate interests, and because Israel has remained a nuclear power: it's not worth the risk for the corporate court to try and undermine the country, because doing so may lose them their only stable foothold in the middle east.

Israel's main exports in 2070: High tech equipment & expertise (consumer software & mechanics, vehicles, heavy equipment, etc), chemicals, finished goods, and mercenaries. Zeta-Imp-Chem and AG Chemie Europa have failed to gain much of a middle eastern foothold primarily due to Israel locking them out at every opportunity; consequently, Israel supplies those needs. Israel produces a lot of mercenaries due to the high pay and large amount of work in the middle east: there are a lot of resources in North Africa and the war-torn regions of Arabia, and the mandatory military service for Israeli citizens is basically free training for that lucrative profession.

The two biggest corporations in Israel are Ares and SK, though all AAAs have a strong presence. Ares and Israel have been in bed forever, via IMI and whatnot, but SK is hot on their heels. Ares & SK make weapons, specialized machinery, and certain high-tech equipment Israel uses, and Israel makes the chemicals, finished goods, and general machinery SK & Ares use for middle eastern operations. Additionally, both SK and Ares recruit heavily from Israel for their contract workers in the middle east, and often hire Israeli mercenaries as long-term security for local projects, where using regular corporate security would be problematic or too expensive, transport & supply wise.

Palestine: Yes, Virginia, Palestine is its own nation. Following Syria's collapse in the 2030s, and the rise of banditry and lawlessness, Israel saw an opportunity. The Palestinians still wanted self-rule, and it had become increasingly difficult for Israel to control the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Conversely, Palestinians had become increasingly aware that without other nations backing their independence bid, they'd never get independence through warfare. The compromise was that Israel would grant Palestine self-rule as a protectorate, and slowly cede greater and greater control to the nation as they got on their feet. The rational from Israel's perspective was that Palestine would form a buffer zone against the unruly and failing states of Syria and Jordan, and they could influence Palestine to turn a more wary eye eastward than westward.

Currently, Palestine is its own state, fully self-ruled. It is not *friendly* with Israel, but Palestine recognizes that Israel is the only country nearby worthy of the name, in that it actually has a functioning government. This has been aided by the fact that Jerusalem is jointly administered by the IPJA - Israel-Palestine Joint Authority - as neither could convince the other that they should be sole governors of the holy city.

You wanna know about Syria and Jordan, too? Egypt? Arabia? Iraq? Iran?
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ggodo
post Apr 18 2011, 07:59 PM
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Yes.
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CanRay
post Apr 18 2011, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE (ggodo @ Apr 18 2011, 01:57 PM) *
Sweden, so neutral we'll blow your head off.

Sweden: Home invasion is heavily discouraged when you're legally obligated to store, maintain, and practice with military equipment in case of invasion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Xahn Borealis
post Apr 18 2011, 10:08 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 18 2011, 06:35 PM) *
Um, that's a rule anywhere Mossad has an operation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Chummer, that's a rule anywhere. DO. NOT. GET CAUGHT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Adarael
post Apr 18 2011, 10:37 PM
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Okay, I'll add further information when I have time to type it up.

Quick note, though: Mossad causes problems for Megacorporations, because Mossad is the foreign intelligence service. Mossad will never catch you inside Israel, however: that's the province of Shin Bet, aka Sherut haBitachon haKlali (SBK, שב״כ, pronounced "Shabek"), the 'General Security Service.' They're the internal secret service; Mossad is strictly foreign.
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LurkerOutThere
post Apr 18 2011, 11:48 PM
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I'm always amused by how people think Mossad is some ultrascary secret service. Their like the CIA's scrappy kid brother with less oversite but their like HK. Because you never see one their amazing.

I'm also skeptical of this notion that. "XXXXX country keeps the corporate powers on a leash." If you don't sign the corporate recognition occords the CC lets your economy die, they control your ability to export and they can interdict your shipments at sea. Don't like it, tough.

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Bigity
post Apr 19 2011, 01:19 AM
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The Mossad is generally rated as the highest or one of the highest performing intelligence services in the world. I spent 15 years working in the intelligence realm, and I never heard anyone dispute that.

However, they aren't supermen or superwomen; just like every other organization with humans involved, mistakes are made and screw ups happen.


They've just always had a whole lot more at stake than most NATO countries, and I think that makes a big motivator.
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Method
post Apr 19 2011, 01:54 AM
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Israel survived because Israel saved Europe saved Israel in the EuroWars.

IIRC part of the opening strategy of the Arab states during the Great Jihad was to cut Israel off from its allies and overwhelm them quickly. Israel barely managed to stave off destruction with support from their European allies and successfully counter attacked behind the Arab lines. Forced to fight on two fronts, the Jihad stalled in the Balkans, giving Europe time to regroup, organize and launch a counter offensive to drive the Arabs back.

So its not like Israel has just been hanging out. They have just survived by the skin of their teeth.
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Laughing One
post Apr 19 2011, 02:05 AM
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QUOTE (Adarael @ Apr 18 2011, 10:37 PM) *
Okay, I'll add further information when I have time to type it up.

Quick note, though: Mossad causes problems for Megacorporations, because Mossad is the foreign intelligence service. Mossad will never catch you inside Israel, however: that's the province of Shin Bet, aka Sherut haBitachon haKlali (SBK, שב״כ, pronounced "Shabek"), the 'General Security Service.' They're the internal secret service; Mossad is strictly foreign.



Actually its pronounced "Shabak".

QUOTE
-Arsenal's write-up for the Seco 120 (?) says that at one point (it's not clear if it's still today, or in the past), every Israeli was expected to carry a handgun at all times.
-There's an Israeli corp called Delek Dragon (delek is Hebrew for gasoline) that operates in Nigeria, sponsoring pirates who steal oil.


About the Seco, looking at the gun control law that make it very very hard for private citizens to own any kind of firearms, I'm pretty sure it never got past the idea stage, but theres enough armed soldiers everywhere going to or from their bases to make operations difficult. Remember, Israel is a small country and most soldiers see home often.

Fun fact about Delek Dragon - its the name of a gas station chain RL. The corporation that owns it is called "Delek group".

QUOTE
It fought a war in 2064 with the Caliphate, and apparently annexed Lebanon as shown by the map in 6WA


Where did you see the info about a war with the Caliphate? I know about some border movements around that time, but if it developed into an all-out war the almanac would have probably mentioned it.

About the map in 6WA, I wouldn't go by it - theres enough precedents to safely assume its probably a drawing error. However, SoA mention that Syria annexed Lebanon at some stage.


The biggest challenge with the region, imo, is to explain in details how the peace with the Palestinians came to reality.





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