Here's the situation. Two shadowrunning teams happen to infiltrate the same building at roughly the same time. Neither team knows about the other, and they are going after different targets. HOWEVER - midway through the run, Team A sees Team B running off with what looks like Team A's objective. Team A immediately starts shooting both spells and bullets at Team B, whereas Team B lobs a couple of smoke grenades and tries to GTFO. At this point Team A realizes that their objective is NOT the same as Team B's and they quickly grab what they came for and head towards the exit. Once outside, they run into Team B once again, and start shooting, critically wounding one of Team B's member. To add insult to injury, Team A then STEALS Team B's objective, figuring they'll be able to fence it for additional cash.

What's the in-character etiquette here? Does Team A deserve a very bad reputation hit because they fired on another group, and stole something from them without significant provocation? Or is your take on the SR universe more "Every shadowrunner for themselves", and it's kosher to take what you can by force? At the very least, Team A has made themselves a serious enemy.

Depends on the city: Some places, that might be kosher. Other places, it's right rude and Notoriety-inducing.

Why did Team A start shooting at Team B the second time, after acquiring their own objective? Why weren't they more focused on exfiltration than starting extraneous firefights?

Apparently not. That's why they get Notoriety.

Eh... nobody knows what Team A was after. Maybe they NEEDED Objective A and B. (Team B certainly would think so).

But yeah lethal force is a bit mean. I would think runners go more for the 80ies adventure-movie-rival help/abandon thing. You know: taze them, use KO-drops and such, but also help them out if the other one is set up to be executed by the corp or such.

But i wouldn't make it a Notoriety hit for a shootout on the run. No one will ever know what REALLY happens (both teams will likely tell a different story). But i guess if they ever meet again there might be trouble. Or maybe you gained a powerful enemy.

It depends on the setting. In the average setting, Team A will get some notoriety as dicks. Some settings, however, it is a Shadowrunner eat Shadowrunner world. Many jobs in the Caribbean League, for instance, are about running interference on other groups.

Again, all depends on where you are. Seattle, this would probably fall under the heading of "Dick Move" by most Shadowdenziens. If for nothing else than the fact that the firefight would have attracted security and was not very subtle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

EDIT: In LA, it would all depend on how well the firefight looked on 'Trid. If it got good ratings... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Don't do this in Seattle, or else you'll be talked about on Shadowland Jackpoint.

ShadowSEA.

Team A gets noterity, no question. The first battle was understandable, it was just business, they were hired to get something, and they thought team B got in the way. Once they realize their objectives did not conflict, they should not attack one another unless attacked first.

They had no good reason for attacking team B again, and by doing so they compromised their objective(by getting in an unneeded firefight), and are going to get a reputation as violent loose cannons. Furthermore, an important part of being a shadowrunner is that everything is just business. By stealing another groups objective and fencing it they are showing themselves to be thieves, no efficient mercs.

When and where did Team A attack Team B the second time?

While I can't imagine that firing on other shadowrunners will be a popular move, as long as it didn't endanger the mission the fallout will probably depend on their location and contacts. For example, if team A was still in the target facility when they met team B the second time, that's reckless. If they were outside after dropping off their target, then that's just making money.

Of course, some shadowrunners will take offense and other's won't care, or might even applaud. Even in Seattle, there's some bloodthirsty fraggers who'd do that themselves. For example, even on Jackpoint, you'd probably get some, like Clockwork, who'd see no problem and others, like Fastjack, who'd find it "unseemly". Also depends on how well-known/popular team B is, who their fixer is, who they were working for, etc.

I don't think notoriety is the right tool here. Notoriety is something everyone views as negative and I don't think that's the case here.

Having said that, I hope team A has made plans to track down and kill team B. Proactive solutions and all that.

OOB, I would classify breaking into corp facilities and stealing stuff as the province of, well, thieves more than efficient mercs.

Just outside of the corporate building. As in, team B was repelling down the side of said building when they were fired upon.

Thanks everyone for your input so far. I'm trying to decide just how much fallout this will cause.

There is one of the Denver Missions where we are hired by a russian girl to take another's team work and do the job they were supposed to plus a wetwork. She had the time and location of the other's team meeting and we went straight there to set up a watch. It turns out, they knew we were there and their street samurai sneaked upon OUR street samurai (Iuri) while he was on top of a building with an assault rifle and the other team ordered us to leave and would keep Iuri as hostage until their work was done. I asked Iuri through the commlink if he could take care of the other samurai, he said yes and then we started shooting each other, until the only survivor of the team was the Adept and she escaped barely alive.
We DID gain Notoriety for this, but also a Street Cred.

I would think that they now have a Hacker, and some seriously pissed off Shadowrunners out for some payback. Maybe they'll lick their wounds, get their friend patched up, and then work hard to screw them. A pissed off Hacker can be a serious problem.

Like Summerstorm said, since the only people who know that Team A wasn't after Team B's objective too is Team A's runners and their J then I don't see why there would be notoriety.

I will agree that Team B would almost definitely be out to get Team A now, or at least make their life hell every chance they get.

I'd agree on this. The team I Gm for were hired by a Street Doc to steal some supplies. After they accepted. they realised they couldn't complete the job so, instead for sub-contracting or just going back to the doc and learning a lesson about what they're capable of, they got the doc arrested and his clinic shut down.

Yes, SERIOUSLY dick move.

Thing is, they were very good at covering their tracks, so I'm not hitting them with notoriety... unless it comes out. Then they're in it up to their eyes. But until then, no one knows ergo no notoriety.

It's fine. You are asking if there is honor among thieves.

If they are the same team, yes, if not, no. Neither time knows why the other is there. They are an armed band and could present a problem to your mission. Depending on your level of violence they are to be neutralized. You have no way to know if they are hostile or not. They may be an irregular defense force, they may be after your target too. Doesn't matter. They are in the way, remove them or get another job, maybe one that involves writing hallmark cards.

Taking some other team's loot just because seems a little bush league but team b has no way to know that a was not after that stuff too.

Honor? Amongst Shadowrunners?

Surely you jest!

"Actually, there's a strong code of ethics that comes into play due to the nature of the industry and..."

And that's enough out of the peanut gallery of characters in my head. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Still though, team A's actions seem to be worth a point of notoriety at least. People don't like dealing with trigger happy murderers.

In my opinion, old school runners would disapprove of the actions. Alot of the younger ones wouldn't care. As long as they weren't team B. Then it's not cool.

So if I've got the mental picture right the wounded party did everything in their power to go non lethal and ice cold pro?in my take on the game world that sort of team is lauded by their peers and respected by their fixers. Such a teams word and rep are likely enough to cause notoriety and hatred from those corners of the shaddows that see it as a lifestyle rather then just a job. In short the sort of veterans you do not want to piss off.

For starters their fixer might call them the next day and strongly suggest or even demand they turn the item over so they can make restitution before things get ugly. Otherwise things could quickly go to blood feud level. There are reams and reams on DS about avoiding indiscriminate violence as you have no idea who the tarrgets friends and family are. In the case of shadowrunners they are almost certainly also shadow types.

All of of this depends on the tone you want to set for your shadows which I can't point the right path just the one that's worked for me. But I think if you see this as an opportunity for future storytelling and tone setting beyond the pure mechanical I think you'll be well rewarded.

Etiquette is determined by the group of peers.

Are shadowrun teams A and B in the same peer group? Do they both adhere to the same Etiquette? (And one question to ask, is how does Team A know if Team B is in the same group and do the same rules apply?)

Or is this a case of the GMs and players expectations do not match?

Again, I don't see why this would reflect negatively on Team A at all, in game, because no-one knows they did something that was tasteless, bad, whatever.
OOC, yea, I agree, bad form on Team A's part, but that doesn't mean that the streets will know that Team A is a bunch of noobs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Assuming that everyone was wearing masks and crap, nobody is going to know who was who until they do some legwork. If I was on team B I'd be tempted to find out who they were and do something bad to them if I could. Like calling KE to report the terrorist attack when they are breaking into a hard target while a spirit with accident and concealment hides under their getaway vehicle with instructions to make it crash if it moves over a block or to leave if nobody shows up in 30 minutes.

Yep. Team B had a hacker in the security system beforehand, and noticed Team A infiltrating the building. They figured as fellow shadowrunners, they should probably not mess with them.



Exactly my thoughts. I mostly wanted to get a second-opinion on what sort of response would be 'realistic' in the SR-world.




I think so - I was mostly trying to inject a bit of humor and wackyness, Team B was built for humor, and the PC's took it in a completely different direction than I was expecting.