This shows the extra cost is not an ehtnicity tax though because Nartaki are taxed heavily while the Harumen get a big discount on thier abilities.

I'm still baffled that saying that humans get the least benefits for their cost should not have become 2 pages of divide by zero arguments. I'm pretty sure everyone understands what it was meant to convey, but if you don't I can spell it out for you. Older editions that used the priority system gave reasons to scrape by with a crappy race, but with the 4 and 4A point system its just not worth it. If you want to play a normal looking character you play an orc or dwarf with the human looking quality (assuming you have those few points to spare), if you want to simply max the total advantages vs the points you spend then you play a Harumen ar Satyr or similar with class 3 surge. As far as I can tell humans only come out ahead of other races in a couple of scant few circumstances, and you generally have to go quite a bit out of the way to make that happen.

It was a point of dispute. How can you call yourself a man if you aren't willing to slave away in front of a computer for hours in order to bash others into your way of thinking on a point that's irrelevant to the topic? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Honestly. I shudder to think... Of it.

The "Special Snowflakes" you have to deal with in Tech Support.

Mathematicians and Furries tend to be able to do their own Tech Support, and typically only need handholding through more difficult (Read: Interesting) issues.

Call it the "Easily Picked Out Of A Line-Up Tax", please. Or something different.

I mean, hell, they pull in four elves and a night one, and it was a night one that did the job, it's a pretty easy solution for eye witnesses. Even if it wasn't the night one in question in the room. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Same goes for four four-limbed humans and a single six-limbed human. And so on.

I doubt Meta-Varients get much in the way of support that the Metatypes have gotten. I can easily see forcing a lineup to only be of a certain metatype (All trolls, all dwarves, and so on), but all Changlings? Very unlikely.

Wait.

We spend points on character flaws now?

There's some tasty bonuses with those flaws. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Some of the more distinctive metavariants, and some of the other character options, are only feasible in certain campaigns. In campaigns where runners have to be ultra-paranoid about leaving no traces, things like purple-furred minotaur changelings, nagas, and centaurs are not that practical. It all depends on how you balance ubiquitous surveillance vs. data balkanization, and what you consider the unwritten rules regarding corporations and shadowrunners.

Also depends on how good you are at disguising yourself, and how much you work towards not being easily traceable by choosing a good hideout and being careful about who you deal with. The more distinctive options take more effort for the player in a campaign like you're describing, but even if a corp knows that they are looking for a naga shadowrunner, that doesn't mean they'll automatically come knocking on your door if said door is hidden well enough.
It's hard for a giant snake to stay deep enough in the shadows, but it's doable.

How do you disguise yourself when you're more than half HORSE?

Make your other half look like a horse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Also, if you play a metavarient, I wouldn't be surprised if the GM gave you the evil twin quality because to regular humans, all Night Ones look the same.

Hell, to a good number of humans, all TROLLS look alike. Forget the Metavarients.

OK. My point wasn't that some variants cost more than others. It was that the cost has no rhyme or reason to it. A Night One takes 25 points of flaws and the only advantage they get is keen ears. Whereas a Fomori costs 5 points more than a regular troll and gets 45 points of edges for those 5 points. Also no downside. So why is this? These numbers make no sense. They are terribly balanced and don't even make sense in the context of previous editions.

Basically they all should be rewritten and rebalanced. As my games have lost all the power gamers I don't need to worry about someone taking a fomori now. But I have had people wanting to take a Night One or something else for a different flavour. There is no point in that if you have to take massive penalties to do so. That is just silly. So in my games there will be no PC meta variants. It isn't worth my time to re-balance them. I am just disappointed Catalyst didn't put a little more thought into the meta variants. As they stand now they are useless for a balanced game.

EDIT: I am not trying to start a flame or anything here. My original post was made in hopes there had been a correction to the variants. I have learned this isn't so and so I am stating my disappointment with what has been done with one aspect of the game.

The reason for the cost, as has been stated several times, has nothing to do with game balance.

It is there because those meta-variants are supposed to be super rare, so they cost more to reflect that.

That is the whole of it.

You can houserule it away if you don't like it.




-k

This is the only thing that even remotely comes close to justifying the cost/bonus relationship incongruence between the metavariants. Basically, if one assumes that they express in proportion to their own natural means and likelihood of perpetuating, it makes a little more sense.

In this case, Fomori, who have many bonuses to survival, and probably look more attractive than baseline trolls, are more likely to find another Fomori as a mate and reproduce.

Night ones, being nocturnal, and raised in a society that views baseline elves as the "ideal" aesthetic form, as well as a society that has many non-night one individuals who might find night ones very attractive (i.e. some furries, or those with Nightcrawler fetishes), are more likely to breed outside of their metavariant (either choosing or being chosen by a non-night one for the purposes of breeding), thus reducing chances for the recessive traits to express.

Assuming some or all metavariants can breed true, similar arguments could be drawn for some or all metavariants...

And then there's also the Changlings and how they'd breed and so on... And decent acceptance of homosexuality and bisexuality...

The Sixth World is a strange and wondrous place when it comes to dating options!

But again, how is this different from any other racial options in the whole game, including the base meta types?
I don't get why the meta-variant costs always get picked out like there's somethink special about them, when there's no rhyme or reason for the costs of any other racial option either.

1) Being super-rare and thus being more expensive is a game balance mechanic. It's a stupid one, but that's exactly what it is: a game mechanic to make them rare.

2) That doesn't explain Fomori

3) That doesn't explain Oni in Japan where they'd be like 9/10ths of the orc population

4) "Super rare" is a negative cost "quality" thus "super rare" metatypes should cost less than their mechanical cost because they come with a heavy dose of "bloody freaking identifiable." Except that again, we're ignoring regional variance: an Oni in Japan isn't going to be as identifiable as a baseline orc is.

But when you lower those costs below baseline metatypes, they are no longer rare. Everyone will play them then. As for Regional Variants (Oni in Japan, for example), all you have to do is switch the costs with the Baseline Metatype in that Region. Problem Solved. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Sure they are. Imagine the infiltration guy sneaking past a guard who goes, "Steve? Is that you? What are you doing here? I thought you worked at Horizon..."

Because you're the only [metavariant type] in Seattle.

Higher cost -> rarity doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It'd make more sense if the cost of the metavariant was equivalent to the bonuses and penalties it gets, plus its base type cost, plus a flat amount like 5.

That little bit extra is justifiable as the "this is the points spent to let you have more pos/neg qualities than normal" cost.

Yes, it means a Night One is cheaper than an Elf, but seriously, you took on a whole host of negative qualities, they should cost less.

Actually, non-Shadowrunner version of this can be seen in Vice, with the Centaur Policewoman commenting on how few Centaurs there are in LA.

Also, she doesn't give Pony Rides. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The "rarity tax" theory was already disproven earlier in the thread - if you have the notion that the developers are trying to discourage players from playing certain metatypes by making them more expensive, then it can be inferred that they want people to play more gnomes, wakyambi, ogres, satyrs, and fomori (and pixies).

Actually that Kawai-i:s blog is in Running Wild.
And she doesn't give "Pony rides", the quote marks make all the difference (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Not that people want to play them more, but that the developers think people should play them more.

Derp, I can't read.