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Redjack
post Jun 27 2011, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Jun 27 2011, 08:02 AM) *
That was my impression, too, when I first saw that drone... what's so special about it? Every node can do that (because otherwise it wouldn't be a node).
The more I think about it, its almost like a legitimate spoof... Perhaps the missing additional commentary is that this represents special code that allows a user to extend the range of a slaved node..?
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hobgoblin
post Jun 27 2011, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE (Redjack @ Jun 27 2011, 02:52 PM) *
Appreciate the response but....

Negative. The laser transceiver is given a rating. The laser link is a ratingless device. While it *appears* to be the closest match, I do not *assume* they are the same.

I search all over and missed that; Doh! End of the night searching. Thanks!

This seems to be a function already provided by any node in a mesh network. I guess I am expecting it to be something more by way of definition....

EDIT: Now I see the table has ratings for both the laser link & directional antenna, though the text neither mentions either, nor any affects of variant ratings. The lack of errata is frustrating..

The retransmitter and the mesh network works on slightly different levels. The mesh network deals with the data packages, while the retransmitter just repeats the radio signal.

In real life term, the mesh network is a tcp/ip router, while the retransmitter acts as a wifi repeater.

And i think the rating of the links and the antenna is how far they reach in their pointed direction. Or maybe it is better to say how far away from the other end they can be.
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BishopMcQ
post Jun 27 2011, 02:15 PM
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Along the lines of what Hobgoblin is saying, the use for the retrans unit and a repeater drone is simple--use them when you don't want to use the mesh network. If you are worried about signal security, or want to keep everything on a closed loop, they are perfect for extending range without hardware upgrades. Instead, if you don't care and want to use the mesh, then don't sweat it.

Re: Map of Puyallup--Don't forget to take into account signal attenuation due to landscaping/construction. (Unwired p. 62) Just like when you drive in a tunnel, your FM radio can start to lose the signal, without secondary relay points throughout the area, the buildings can block signal and reduce it by a few points.
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KarmaInferno
post Jun 27 2011, 03:01 PM
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Was using a cloud of mini flying drones with Retrans units in the Missions games at Origins.

They're programmed to have one drop out of the cloud, to act as a relay point, if they start losing signal back to the source. Came in handy when exploring a deep cavern that wireless doesn't penetrate. Left a satlink outside the cave for the last drone to connect to.





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hobgoblin
post Jun 27 2011, 03:46 PM
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Reminds me of a system i read about recently, about location tracking of firefighters. The system would use hardened relay points that would drop from the firefighters belt as the signal got weaker. And when i say hardened i mean being able to take the fire, the water and being potentially kicked around by the firefighters moving around inside the building. All this so the guy in charge will be able to keep track of where everyone is inside, and their status.
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Redjack
post Jun 27 2011, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jun 27 2011, 08:24 AM) *
And i think the rating of the links and the antenna is how far they reach in their pointed direction. Or maybe it is better to say how far away from the other end they can be.
Interesting calculation: Default antenna is R4 (400m). Can be upgraded to R6(10km) where it gets an +2 rating along the direct path (effective R8 = 100km).

Now that is one hot drone.
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Fortinbras
post Jun 27 2011, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 27 2011, 04:49 AM) *
So your entire argument is that it will never work because the barrens is a dystopian miasma and nothing will ever change that? Seems rather flimsy to me, a moderately successful gang isn't stupid, and might want a way to make phone calls among their membership. If they are really too stupid to live they will be too stupid to catch the drones. None of that changes that having wireless access in the neighborhood is good in the short term, it allows unlimited access to porn if nothing else.

Basically your working really hard to come up with circular logic reasons why the idea won't fly, when I can just as easily come up with reasons why.

So your argument is there are no such things as ghettos. I'll head down to South Dallas and let everyone know. They'll be thrilled.
People who have been rejected by society aren't stupid for living for the here and now over the long term, they simply have no choice. Gangs don't need a mesh network, they need food, bullets and drugs. It doesn't make sense to let your city decay, but it doesn't make sense to drop out of high school your senior year either, which is when most people do it. It doesn't make sense to destroy your own neighborhood in a riot, but Spike Lee called that doing the right thing.
Urban renewal is expensive and long term. In order to keep that drone in the air, you need some type of order and order doesn't exist in the Barrens. Lone Star won't provide it and the nature of a go gang doesn't allow it.
Even if everything goes right and the Barrens start getting better, what you get is gentrification. As the neighborhood starts getting nicer, the people who grew up there can't afford to live there anymore and the Barrens just moves to a different part of the city.

I'm not trying to come up with reasons why it won't fly, I'm telling you why it doesn't. There is little Matrix coverage in the Barrens. You don't know why. I'm telling you why. You can ignore explanations at your own peril.
Poverty doesn't make sense, but it does exist.
QUOTE (Redjack @ Jun 27 2011, 07:52 AM) *
Appreciate the response but....
This seems to be a function already provided by any node in a mesh network. I guess I am expecting it to be something more by way of definition....

EDIT: Now I see the table has ratings for both the laser link & directional antenna, though the text neither mentions either, nor any affects of variant ratings. The lack of errata is frustrating..

There are some places that don't have a mesh network, like the Barrens or the Mojave desert. If your team of runners is trying to clip telesma from Joshua trees and you need to stay in communication over miles, this is probably the way to go.
It also helps for creating mutual signal range to things for which you may need a direct subscription, like slaved devices.

The text mentions what the ratings for both the directional antenna and laser transmitter are(4 and 3, respectively.)
The rating of the directional antenna determines it's Signal rating, as described on p. 199 of Unwired.
The rating of the Laser Link determines it's Signal Rating. If the Laser Link in Arsenal has a range of 100m and it is a Rating 2 Laser Link, Rating equals Signal. This Signal is degraded due to visibility modifiers such as fog and smoke.
There is no errata needed for this device.
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Redjack
post Jun 27 2011, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 27 2011, 02:38 PM) *
The rating of the directional antenna determines it's Signal rating, as described on p. 199 of Unwired.
As I alluded to previous with the following formula:
QUOTE (Unwired @ pg 199)
Add 2 to the antenna’s rating for determining Signal range, but it can only communicate with nodes in the path of the radio beam

----
QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 27 2011, 02:38 PM) *
There is no errata needed for this device.
That is a matter of opinion. Thanks for providing yours.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jun 27 2011, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (Redjack @ Jun 27 2011, 01:48 PM) *
As I alluded to previous with the following formula: (Unwired @ pg 199)
Add 2 to the antenna’s rating for determining Signal range, but it can only communicate with nodes in the path of the radio beam
----


So, you had all the rules at your fingertips already? Why exactly do we need errata for this piece of equipment. Sorry, but it does seem prettty straight forward to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Redjack
post Jun 27 2011, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 27 2011, 02:51 PM) *
Why exactly do we need errata for this piece of equipment. Sorry, but it does seem prettty straight forward to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
My preference would be that the rules use clear and consistent terminology. The repeater drone references "laser transceiver" which we assume is a "laser link" and " radio frequency repeater" defined no where else in the rules except with the phrase "to extend the signal range of linked devices by its own". We have extrapolated what is a playable set of rules in each of those cases, however, one GM to the next may not interpret them the same. In that case errata would insure a clear and consistent interpretation.

That's all, just want clear and consistent. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Fortinbras
post Jun 27 2011, 08:24 PM
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It seems pretty clear and consistent to me. Everything used in the device is explained in detail within a page of the description. I don't think anyone is interpreting anything on this device to be something other than what it is, even you.

When describing a device, you can't give a full rules explanation for every aspect of the device or you end up with a wordy, overly complex grognard of a tomb.
It would look like this
[ Spoiler ]


There are tons of things in a game a diverse as Shadowrun that are contradictory or confusing, but this isn't one of them.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 27 2011, 08:34 PM
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Yeah, of all the broken rules and crazy omissions, this doesn't even rate a zero.
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LurkerOutThere
post Jun 27 2011, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 27 2011, 02:38 PM) *
So your argument is there are no such things as ghettos. I'll head down to South Dallas and let everyone know. They'll be thrilled.
People who have been rejected by society aren't stupid for living for the here and now over the long term, they simply have no choice. Gangs don't need a mesh network, they need food, bullets and drugs. It doesn't make sense to let your city decay, but it doesn't make sense to drop out of high school your senior year either, which is when most people do it. It doesn't make sense to destroy your own neighborhood in a riot, but Spike Lee called that doing the right thing.


While your at it see if they have cell phones, I betcha they do. In SR the matrix is literally as ubiquitous as pay as you go cells. Your basic argument is basically their too busy being actively stupid to use modern conveniences.

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Redjack
post Jun 28 2011, 02:07 AM
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Edit:
I don't see there is much more to be said here.
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hobgoblin
post Jun 28 2011, 04:46 AM
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QUOTE (Redjack @ Jun 27 2011, 06:10 PM) *
Interesting calculation: Default antenna is R4 (400m). Can be upgraded to R6(10km) where it gets an +2 rating along the direct path (effective R8 = 100km).

Now that is one hot drone.

Not surprising, as a real life sat antenna the size of a cutting board can reach sats.

Still, to be effective at that range there would need to be a similar device at the other end. Or else the max effective range becomes the smaller of the two.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 28 2011, 04:48 AM
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Which is true in SR4, though you can do a couple tricks with one-way communications anyway.
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Headshot_Joe
post Jun 28 2011, 06:32 AM
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QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 27 2011, 01:24 PM) *
It seems pretty clear and consistent to me. Everything used in the device is explained in detail within a page of the description. I don't think anyone is interpreting anything on this device to be something other than what it is, even you.

True dat.

However, this does imply that the devices in the drone are only used in said drone, and are not available by any other means for use in any other manner. It may have made more sense to detail each of these devices as a vehicle/drone modification or piece of gear and add them as standard upgrades for the drone. Otherwise you run into issues in some environmental conditions (severe winds, acid rain, thunder storms, bullet showers, any form of hail, etc). And what if you wanted that signal extension underwater? Do you have to buy a submersible, put the drone in it, and drive/rig it to the location you need it?
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Mäx
post Jun 28 2011, 11:55 AM
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QUOTE (Headshot_Joe @ Jun 28 2011, 09:32 AM) *
However, this does imply that the devices in the drone are only used in said drone, and are not available by any other means for use in any other manner.

Whut, those devices are Electronics that are in the next page of the book.
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Redjack
post Jun 28 2011, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jun 27 2011, 11:46 PM) *
Still, to be effective at that range there would need to be a similar device at the other end. Or else the max effective range becomes the smaller of the two.
Agreed.
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DamienKnight
post Jun 28 2011, 01:39 PM
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With some Chameleon Coating and Thermal Dampening your non-internet appreciating gangers are unlikely to notice your flying relays, though I am prone to go with a big antennae on my barrens flat rather than some kind of relay system myself...
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